I'm set up for my last, bucket list safari in September 2019. I want this to be a classic hunt and so plan for a practical 2-rifle battery - how's that for a rifle loony oxymoron? I'm looking for input on the 2nd rifle.

Plan is for a tuskless elephant, a sable, warthog, and mature bull giraffe. If the last animal were not on the list I would very likely take the 300 WSM I've used routinely as a light rifle. But except for a neck shot, I don't fully trust the 180 Nosler PPT I use in the 300 WSM to deliver on a chest shot on the giraffe. Especially because of the likely shoulder shot.

The heavy rifle for the tuskless, is a bolt action Ruger RSM chambered for 450 Rigby.

I'm considering either a 375H&H or a 338 Win Mag for the 2nd rifle slot. Both are Win M-70 pre-64s, so no concern on the functional side. I'd be overgunned with the 375 on everything I'll hunt with the medium, except for the giraffe. I also want to make sure than in the unlikely event I need to stretch the shot on the sable, the 2nd rifle will deliver. I'm OK with either the 375 or 338 to reach out to 300 yds off shooting sticks if needed (prefer and anticipate much closer).

I'm probably overthinking this and splitting hairs. However I would appreciate thoughts from the experienced.

What I've experienced is you are overthinking. The .375 with 270-grain premium bullets.

The 375 is usually the Elephant Minimum. I would make sure both rifles are legal for Elephant in case one fails?

OR you have the wrong one in your hands when an opportunity presents itself.
And over thinking it is half the fun.

375 for reasons stated.

I am in the 375 camp.

Here is another thought.
You can certainly take the 300 WSM, and just use the 450 Rigby on giraffe along with elephant.

Having 2 rifles is a very good way-to have the wrong rifle in your hands at the wrong time....KISS . Take a .375.

Both rifles will be at hand simultaneously. When we are hunting elephant, the 450 will be in my hands and the 2nd rifle will be in the hands of a tracker. The 2 hunts will take place in different areas, so the problem of wrong rifle at the wrong time is not an issue.

I’m not concerned about having to use the 2nd rifle on elephant, though the 375 is legal for that purpose. I’m not planning to use the 375 - if that’s what I decide on - on elephant as I don’t plan to load solids in the 2nd rifle.

My main question is about the adequacy of the 338 with a 225 grain Swift A-Frame or TSX on the giraffe bull. The 375 with a 270 or 300 TSX will work on any of the PG animals.

CRS, that is an option I’m considering, because the shot at the giraffe is likely to be inside 100 yds.

I would personally use the 450 on the Giraffe and take a 338 for the your other plains game. If you had to in a pinch you could try the 338 on the Giraffe but I personally found them to require quite a lot of killing(only have hunted one). Ask your PH about bullets on the Giraffe, mine wanted solids all the way, keep shooting as long as you can, he said. I am going to try a 2 gun safari next July in the Bubye for Buffalo, Giraffe and plains game. Stopping by Kowas safaris in Namibia for a double 5 day cull hunt on the way home. Taking 2 custom pre 64 Win's in 416 Rem and 338 Win Mag. You are right about one thing for sure, your overthinking it just like the rest of us, but that is half the fun. You could just take the old 375 and do it all.

Good luck and have a ball

No personal experience, however I do have an opinion!

You could use your 300WSM with Barnes TSX or TTSX, Nosler E-Tips, Hornady GMX and have no problems with a neck shot on giraffe. Check Africa Hunting.com. Seems lighter rifles are used quite regularly on giraffe for neck shots.

Otherwise, I vote for the 338WM with a mono bullet listed above or the Swift A-frame or a Woodleigh.

I have shot exactly one giraffe,an old female,she was the biggest in her group,I had two rifles that trip,a Krieghoff double rifle in 500/416 & a Dakota African in 338 Lapua,I used the 338 on the giraffe,the load was Tsx 250 gr @ 2750,range was about 125 yrds,I opted for a heart shot,she took off at the shot,but was down within maybe 40-50 yrds,no more shots needed,I have killed a lot of game with that load,hit's like a hammer.

You could do way worse than a good .375, either H&H or Ruger, with 250 Barnes TTSX or 270 gr. TSX bullets. In fact, for what you have on your list, a single rifle, with 270 gr. TSX bullets, would handle everything nicely.

Four years ago, my safari included everything from the little Springbok to and African lion. I handloaded the 250 gr. Barnes TTSX, and used it on Springbok, Black Wildebeest, Sable, and the big cat. It worked perfectly on everything, with shots at the Springbok and Wildebeest well over 200 yards, in open country. With a Leupold VX3 2.5-8 scope, it was capable of very close-in shots at the lowest setting, and accurate longer range shots at 8x.

If you don't already have it, Craig Boddington's book, Safari Rifles II, is highly entertaining and informative reading on the subject.

He could use those bullets and have no problem with any shot on the giraffe.

9.3X62

I wouldn't fool with two rifles. While you're screwing around swapping with the tracker, you're likely to spook the game. Forget the .338; It's illegal on elephant. Take a .375 H&H. And only that. It's plenty enough for elephant. It's not "too much gun" for plains game. It kills Impala very dead from any angle. In the case of an unlikely rifle breakdown, your PH has a spare rifle, doesn't he?

I have not shot giraffe nor am I likely too, but I sure will eat some more if given the opportunity. BBQed over camel thorn wood please.

I witnessed a purdee C****F**** on a Giraffe with a 375 and Nosler bullets. There were some bad shots for sure but the PH thought the Noslers lacked straight line penetration for really large game. His opinion, not trying to start a P war.

I think there might have been as many as 12 shots involved. The cook was in the safari car and she was crying and the giraffe was crying and I had to sort of grit my teeth and refrain from shooting (the PHs Gun). This was not a close friend and I just tagged along and didn't even have a rifle. The first shots were on foot after a short stalk but the hunter re-grouped back to the truck as they couldn't keep up with the giraffe on foot.

Giraffe have very hard bone structure which is why they make such good knife handles. Think of a pronghorn antelope x 20. Anyway I would not hesitate to use the 375 with monos or solids and the Noslers should work if the first shot is good. Anything reasonable will work on a neck shot, one of the few animals I would recommend this on.

In your case I would use the 450 for the giraffe if possible, the big guns don't get much use so why not. Or as others said just bring the 375 with Mono's and solids. The 375 is usually easy to get multiple bullet weights into the same group with a little load juggling so you could also bring a 250 TSX load for plains game too.

As others have said if big game is involved both rifles should be big game worthy and legal.

Just use the 450 on the giraffe, no sense punishing yourself shooting at 375 at sable and smaller game. Never been there but I would not want to shoot a 375 every day, ouch!

The guy I hunted with in So. Africa used a 300 WM for his giraffe. Bang flop, DRT. No problemo.

Take the 300 and the 450. Load TTSX in the 450 and TTSX or ETips in the 300. Easy peasy.

I have no experience on African game, but I do have opinions! I personally would use the 375 on everything other than the elephant. Keep it simple. 375 ammo should be available if you happen to need any, a bonus. As I remember, Teddy Roosevelt used a sporterized Springfield on his giraffe, I think with FMJ factory ammo, too. I wouldn't recommend doing that, but I mention it to note different results. A giraffe is a big animal, up to 1,800 lbs. That's about twice as big as a Cape Buffalo. Use enough gun.

The .375 and.450 Rigby. If on the very slim chance your .450 Rigby ammo is lost,you can still carry on your hunt with the .375 H&H.

While I have only been to Africa twice, I never recall wishing the hole in the muzzle of my rifle was smaller. Now I was not on the kind of hunt that allows you to shoot many shots each day, so recoil was not a factor.

I get the same feeling walking out in the dark when hunting around Yellowstone NP and cutting bear tracks.

There is always a bunch of .375 ammo rattling around a safari camp, if worse comes to worse.

i've been 4 times. only taken a 375 H&h the last 3 times. Its done everything ive needed.

Townsend Whelen once wrote, "The .30-06 is never a mistake." He was commenting on general use for big game in North America, and was correct. While Whelen never hunted in Africa, he could have made the same comment about the .375 H&H over there. Unless, of course, somebody is obsessed with the so-called "Tiny Ten"....

I've used .375's as both the "light" and "heavy" rifle on 2-rifle safaris, and it has always done the job whether game weighed 50 pounds or 1500.

I am a total novice on africa, having never been there. But on non dangerous game I cannot imagine shooting an animal with a 270 or bigger at less than 300 yards in the lungs or heart and having it not be enough and not do the job. Yikes. Obviously a whole nother league

Not saying anyone is wrong just voicing my ignorance and confusion

John,

I believe there is consensus on the 375H&H as the 2nd rifle. I agree.

The rifle I’ve selected is a Win pre-64 transitional model (DOM 1948) which I was fortunate to find some years ago. It was shipped from the factory with a FS, rear Lyman peep, and the 25¨barrel. It was sold in Seattle to the original owner as described and came to me with a G&H detachable side mount which originally held a Weaver 2.5X scope in the rings. That’s how I bought the rifle. I’ve put together a 2nd detachable set of rings from G&H mounting a Leupold 1.75-6x32 scope which is my favorite on the medium medium cartridge class and will be the setup for this trip. What better way to bid farewell to African safaris than with a 375H&H pre-64 Win M-70 in hand?

The response to my inquiry has been both surprising and greatly helpful in reaching the decision on the 375H&H as the 2nd rifle.

John, I appreciate and greatly value your counsel.

um, heck yeah!

Giraffes are no slouches and I'd call thin skin+. I'd use the 450 on the giraffe and frankly just a 300 on the rest. Even with a 375 on giraffe you can expect a second shot at a hip running away more often than you'd think.

Giraffes are, in fact, classified as pachyderms. Their skin is as thick as the elephants and hippos, so the same type of bullet is required. I’ve been lucky to have had the opportunity to have shot several giraffes in the past. The first was a classic first-shot shoulder shot on a very large, mature ‘black bull’ with a solid Barnes 400 grain 0.423¨ bullet. Follow up with a Swift A-Frame to the neck ended it. Unfortunately, this hide was burned up in a fire that destroyed the exporter’s warehouse, so I lost my skin. This is the reason I am planning on a similar bull on my last safari.

On a subsequent trip I was able to do some giraffe shooting for meat for the workers at a large agricultural concern in Zim. These were smaller giraffes, so all shots were neck or head with a 300WSM and 180 gr Nosler PPTs. This worked well, but tracking and hunting wary, large, mature bulls and shooting for meat are 2 very different propositions. That’s the reason I’ve been concerned about the 2nd rifle.

I am now persuaded from the input here, that the 375H&H is the way to go. I’ll probably load Barnes 300 gr Banded Solids for the tracker to carry in the 375 as backup on elephant and for me to use on the initial shot at the giraffe’s shoulder; then load SPs for follow ups. Haven't decided yet whether the SPs will be A-Frames or Noslers. It will depend on how well I can get the SPs to shoot close POI to the solids.

Because this 375 has a peep and a detachable scope, I may just zero the peep with the solids and the scope with the SPs. We’ll see as the loads are developed.

Yup. People were scratching their heads why I was told to bring solids for my 375 on a lion hunt.

They weren't for the lion, they were for the bait.........giraffe.

I wound up using my 300 Win on my lion as the 350 gr TSX weren't opening up enough and acted more like solids- not what u want on a "thin skinned" lion.

PS Didn't matter, the lions were finicky and prefered zebra anyway. Don't blame them one bit, zebra is tasty & tender........

Wildcatter264

WOW some extremes. As you are looking for suggestion, everyone has an idea, however it is in your ball park to make a decision on what you take.

1st rifle
Your 450 for elephant will do the job provided you do your job and have good bullet placement. Scope or open sight, both should be a fun hunt. If you are using a scope, may i suggest you have it sighted for 25 to 50 Yards as you will usually shooting at under 20 yards.

2nd rifle
I would take the 338 WM and Barnes 225 factory loads. sight it dead on for 200 yards and your good to 300 + yards, or what you set as your limits, i limit my shooting to 350 yards and under off shooting sticks.

Using the above, i have taken two shots and 2 giraffes. one giraffe dropped in it tracks, the other giraffe went about 20 yards and fell over. Study a giraffe make up for good shot placement.

+1 for the 375

...........................Dunno if I'll ever see Africa or not. But! You can borrow my 338-378 Bee Accumark and tell me later how she did.........LOL>>>LOL

On DG hunts, I brought a .416 Rigby and a .470 N.E.: except for leopard

For leopard, a .338 Win.; with a .470 as a back up.

For PG, either a .300 Win or a .30/06.

Those worked for me.

I never hunted with a .375.

The .458's have a lot of bullets available for them. Why not load try a 300gn TSX for the smaller stuff, and then a 500-550gn for big critters. You could sight in for the 300gn bullets, and the 500's might only be an inch or 2 low at 50 yards where DG is shot. Might be easier to carry 1 rifle and 2 different loads than 2 rifles.

We all have our prejudices.....and I'm no exception.
1. IMO the .375 H&H will handle anything you point it at....and at some extended ranges as well. It's also classic African and that counts for something.....
2. The giraffe is also a large animal and the .375 might want to go on that hunt as well.

3. Sable and warthog are not at all that large....and if it's me hunting them, my .30-06 is what I'd like to be toting.....

Don't forget....your PH will likely be toting a heavy double on the ele hunt and others as well....just for safety sake. Count on him, but don't forget.....the .30-06 is no slouch and can easily handle very large and tough critters too.

Bear in mind that the most used cartridge to kill ele in Africa is the AK-47....(used by poachers) and it's no where near the punch of the .30-06

The other reason for this choice is that both .375 H&H and .30-06 ammo is found anywhere ammo is sold in Africa.....many other fine cartridges are not and that includes the .300 WSM and the .300 H&H.....

The .30-06 may be a tad boring, but it's still a fine choice for anything on the planet.....

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This.....make sure both rifles will work on anything, at anytime....

I've never been to Africa and doubt I'll make it. But having talked to a few folks that have gone. I suspect my choice would be the 375 H&H main gun to handle just about everything and a nice drilling in 16ga/16ga/7x57R, I've been told there is some fair bird shooting around camp and the 7x57 should handle anything that you think the 375 is too much gun for.

Something like this

Interesting idea. I believe I can borrow a shotgun from my outfitter, though I don’t shoot birds, so doubt this will happen.

As to the original question, circumstances have changed a bit. My elephant rifle will be the same type as the one I used for a bull elephant a few years back, a Krieghoff 500 NE 3” SxS. I have a lot is components and loads that work so this will work out.

The 2nd rifle is largely going to boil down to the way a couple of my rifles shoot and handle. Right now I’m working with a Win M-70 375H&H, my standby Ruger Hawkeye African 404-375 Ruger, and a CZ 9.3x62 CZ 550. Hope to decide in the next 3-4 weeks so I can sort out the SAPS permits with plenty of time to spare.

Hard to imagine a safari involving anything bigger than plains game not including a .375 of some sort. I've used the .375 as both the "light" and "heavy" rifle on various safaris and it has never failed to live up to its historical reputation.

John,

I've used the 404-375 Ruger as my medium cartridge, in the role you suggest for the 375. I agree that a 404 is not as flexible as the 375, but it has served me in taking a number of PG animals when the heavier rifle was the 500, or when I used the 404 as my heavy.

Well, the 2-gun battery is set for September. I’ll take the Krieghoff 500 NE 3” with CEB 570 gn BBW #13s at 2165 fps as the primary elephant gun.

As a 2nd rifle, and on the off chance we need to take a longer shot on a tuskless, I’ll have a transitional pre-64 Win M-70 375H&H along. The 375 is fitted with the factory Lyman receiver sight zeroed at 50 yds for the Barnes 300 gn solid at 2700 fps and a G&H side mount with a 1.75-6x Leupold sighted at 100 yds for the Barnes 250 gn TTSX at 2950 fps. The TTSX load is intended for a mature black bull giraffe, if we can close on one.

Getting out to the range 2x a week to make sure I’m up to the task. The rifles and loads are ready, so making sure I’m ready as well. This is my last Africa trip and I will be very fortunate to share the hunt with my son, as we did on my first trip there 13 years ago.

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THIS

Thanks for the advice. Think I've got it.

Awesome!

enjoy your trip!

Good luck on the black giraffe. It's a handsome animal. Be sure to post a picture on FB. (tic)

And an awesome set of two it is!
Best of luck.
Les

Got to the range with my son Friday afternoon. He’s after a sable and a kudu with his Kimber 270WSM. His 1st 2 groups at 100 yds were both under 1”. He’s a very good rifle shot who knows his go-to rifle well.

He also fired the 375H&H with the 300 Barnes Solids, as that’s the rifle he’ll carry when we approach the elephant herds looking for a tuskless. Conditions can change pretty rapidly when up close on a herd and even more so after the shot, so he’ll have the ability to look after himself, if the need arises.

Counting down now as we practice regularly and finalize details.

Sounds like you've got it covered, WC264.

I've taken my 375 to Africa twice, and collected every head of game I wanted there with it, from hyena to Cape buff. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on one or more of the Tiny Ten, for that matter; Craig Boddington, among others, has used a 375 with solids for these little trophies.

There is no such thing as being "overgunned" in Africa, in my opinion. Yes, I may be hunting impala, but lion may be hunting me.

You back, yet?

I am also interested in the outcome of this adventure.

i have never been to Africa yet,but would it be more simple to just take 2 - 375 H&H rifles ? that way you only have to bring one cartridge type ammo. when i go west for deer my son and myself we bring 3 - 257 Weatherby rifles,when we elk hunt we bring 3 - 300 Win. mags.,when we prarie dog shoot we bring mostly 223 rifles and a few cases of 223 ammo. i have a trip planned next year for moose in Alaska my friend who lives up there has 2 - 7 Rem.Mags. so i will bring a 7 mag. too. good luck and have a fun trip,Pete53

Can't do that. For some inane/insane reason, one may not import two or more rifles of the same caliber...

375 H&H and 30-06 went with me...worked well. jmho

He's not going to be hunting jackrabbits Ken.... Damn...

never been but hope to some day. My Winchester 375H&H and ruger no1 30-06 will make the trip if I ever get to go

Haven't been, no plans to go.

But, am helping good buds with their equipment.

Next one up will be taking .416 Rem in a M-70 and a 7RM Sendero, for Cape buff and PG.

DF

You have not seen some of the smaller antelope species there.