A couple of the flights we are looking at to go from Denver to Jobreg. go thru London, just wondering how did it go. We will be bringing rifles. Thanks for the help. Patrick

Been thru London a few times but never with firearms. Primary reason is the direct flight we have there arrives in Gatwick and we have to change airports over to Heathrow to get to Namibia. Can't check firearms all the way. Have to claim them and hire a licensed transfer agent to take them to the other airport. Last time I checked, this was about $600 each way for two rifle cases and we had to travel separately and not with the courier service.

We could find alternate routes from the US to Heathrow to avoid the transfer courier but, by the time you add the extra stop/layover to get there and back and the BA firearm carriage fee we could find better alternatives. One guy I know goes to Namibia every couple of years and just rents/uses a loaner. Goes via London and does the transfer. Spends the day going from Gatwick over to Heathrow but has to hustle to make the connection home. Missed his flight one time because "the tubes" went on strike. Cost him a lot of extra coin to rebook because he missed his flight.

If you can book so you don't have to change airports in London, it might work for you. London used to be a fun stopover....has changed a lot in the last few years......and not for the better.

Why fool with London? Go from Denver to Atlanta and then non-stop on Delta to J'burg.

Use KLM.

You require a transit permit, but it free and easy to fill out.

KLM has great service. I can get from Calgary to Johannesburg in 22hrs. Fastest trip I know of. 2hr layover in Amsterdam.

When I looked at London or Frankfurt, the layovers were much longer, like 8-10. Looked at one of the Gulf airlines. Supposed to be great service, but I don't see the point of wasting pretty much an extra day laying over in Dubai. Waste of my time and the cost of a hotel.

GRF is going to Namibia. He can go Calgary-Amsterdam-Windhoek on KLM.

I'll use KLM until a better alternative arrives.

Having flown with firearms via London and via Amsterdam I would strongly suggest avoiding London.

M3Taco has covered all the issues well.

Thanks all, your imput is very helpful. Patrick

The Delta ATL to JNB flight costs over twice what the gulf states airlines cost, at least for business class and almost as much difference for coach. ATL-Doha-JNB on Qatar airways takes about 26 hours outbound and 25 hours return. Wife and I flew this in November. 2 business tickets were $8600 versus 1 business ticket on Delta. Took approx 8 hours more but to save over $8000, I figured it was worth it. And you simply can’t compare Delta to either Qatar Airways or Emirates. Chalk and cheese....

Due to a$$holes in the airport we missed a flight from Minneapolis to Atlanta to Jo a couple years ago, ended up going through London.

At the gate I'm flagged as traveling with firearms and was asked if I had permits. Scared the crap out of me as NO I did not and explained the situation. Showed them my permits for Africa and the lady was very polite and assisted me in filling out the paper work and went on our way.

I've been through London a few times in normal travel and I'd rather deal with them any day than most of the people here stateside who don't give a crap about you or if you miss a flight, etc.

I flew Emirates, DFW, Dubai, JBurg last spring. Good experience, no problem with rifles. MUCH BETTER THAN DELTA/SAA which are incapable of loading luggage and passengers on the same flight.

Oh,, I forgot to mention, Emirates was glad for us to use their company unlike Delta Atlanta personnel who will occasionally deign to do you a favor and let you on their airplane. ATLANTA - MOST RACIST AIRPORT I'VE EVER BEEN IN!

If you have a lay over you will need an agent to receive the arms and ammunition. They both get a lead seal clamped on the cases. I forgot the agents name but it was very easy and then he met me when I disembarked. My booking agent arranged it for me and it went smoothly and was about $150 back then. Don't take the black cabs look for a common cab or shuttle. My cab fair was about $300 across London, I could have shared a cab for about $50 if I had known.

Read up on the regs. as it has probably changed since I was there.

That's an understatement

Chaulk and cheese doesn't do the difference justice. I haven't flown on all the airlines, but Emirates is the best, by a long shot, that I've been on. No US carriers even come close to them.

I have not taken rifles through London...but I did have lunch today with John Sharp and we happened to discuss preferred travel routes to southern Africa, when toting rifles.

He said, absolutely avoid London with rifles. Don't do it.

I have heard the same thing many times, from others.

I try to listen to the voices of experience!

Guys, you make me chuckle. Obviously a white dude from South Dakota and White dude from New Mexico just don't speak the local lingo. Funny how the only problem I ever had at Hartsfield/Jackson was with AIR FRANCE. This is my home base, I might add.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


This


I went through London way back in 1987 on my first Safari. I wasn't allowed off the plane, and either were my guns.....

Regulations and situations change often. I would firmly suggest you book through a travel agent such as Steve Turner at Travel With Guns.

He can advise you of the current situation on permits, access to lounges, who to call when your luggage or guns don't make the flight, the best deals on tickets, cancellation and refund policies and a hundred other questions you'll have. All for a modest fee.

After about fifteen trips to africa, I can handle booking my own flights, but I still let Steve and Fred handle it.

London is no problem with guns as long as you are using BA metal all the way or UA and SAA and arriving and departing the same airport (LHR). It's just expensive and other airlines have joined BA with the added expense. If traveling BA, just make sure that you keep the copy of your BA paperwork, as BA uses contract labor at JNB and you will need it if they can't find your gun the their system.

If you have to transfer between Heathrow and Gatwick forget it. And remember no inter-African flights on BA , it's really Comair and they don't carry guns. For those flights you need either SAA or Airlink.

Emirates is great and you fill out the gun paperwork on-line. Easy. The seats in Coach are the same as other carriers, but the FA are much better. Business is excellent, if you can get an A380 flight take it over a B777 if possible.

Can anyone tell me exactly what permit is needed in London, just a 7 hr layover in London on the way to SA with firearms, flying American Airlines and if so who the hell do I apply for this permit thru. Thank you Patrick

Sorry bud it was 11 years ago, and I can’t recall.

I used a customs broker because we changed airports.

Things may have changed, but it used to be you could not fly AA to London and transfer your gun to BA. That language is no longer on the AA website, but that does not means anything. You will need to call AA and see if they will make the transfer. I would suggest flying BA to London and then BA onwards. On BA you call them, and give them the brand , serial number and caliber. Several weeks before you fly and the confirm about three days before you depart. At the airport you will fill out the paperwork and keep a copy with you for your return flight back home. It’s very easy, but expensive.

Well after much confusion on my part and getting little info from the airlines, this is what I have found. Now we don't fly out until June, so we will see how it all works. We booked our tickets with American Airlines and that is all AA has to do with it. We go to the British Airways counter, fly on BA planes and follow BA rules. As stated above, call BA 3 months ahead of time and give them firearms info and again 3 days before your flight. Check in your bags and gun case and pay a fee of about 160.00 and fill out a form there at the counter and that is suppose to be it. lf this all the case, it shouldn't be to bad. I will repost after we get back. Thank you all for your imput, Patrick

I suggest using Travel With Guns. They know the details about flights. Never ever try doing it yourself unless you are very experienced.

I'll echo this. I'll never clear customs again in Atlanta. ANY other option is better.

I have a "funny" story from a trip home from Namibia several years ago. Outbound via Newark-Heathrow-Joburg-Windhoek was no problem with gun in one locked "golf" case (stuffed with the majority of my related hunting gear) and ammo in a separate standard luggage. I had a good week-long hunt bagging gold metal Kudu, Zebra, and Gemsbok. I then traveled the country for a month as a standard tourist before heading back home. On return flights my mistake was I left all my loaded 30-06 ammo with my PH, but kept a single fired brass shell in my gear as a souvenir. It happened to be in the same locked case as my rifle. MISTAKE! Upon plane transfer in London, I had taken my seat on the flight, the stew came on PA saying there was a departure delay, and a HUGE security agent in full armor came aboard, was led to my seat, and asked (actually, ordered) me to come off the plane with him. I was led to the tarmac near a baggage cart, I was shown my golf case, and a second security agent opened his hand to display the fired cartridge they had removed from it (via TSA key). They asked me if I had any other ammunition or components anywhere. I didn't. Then he told me the cartridge case (luckily not the rifle or entire locking case) was being seized. They led me back to the gangway and let me reboard. Luckily the whole thing only delayed the flight about 20 minutes, and while the agents were professional and even a little humorous, the most flak I got was from the gate agent who complained I didn't inform her I was traveling with a firearm in checked luggage. Of course, there was no requirement (at least in 2005) to do so, as I hadn't touched the case since Windhoek.

The British Bulldog lost its nuts a long time ago.

I made the trip from Denver to JNB on BA in Sept 2016. I would never do it again. I found SAA flight from JFK a better fit for me. Just get on the plane and get it over with. The long lay over in London was torture, making the trip seem much longer. The British Airway's staff where a bunch of pricks in Denver and didn't seem to have a clue on how to check our guns, and to make matters worse, the guns where checked through on the way home from Zim and we ended up in the basement of the airport in JNB on the way home with the South African police looking for a bribe after a young angry looking black man at the BA desk sent us to have our guns checked out. I would personally avoid British Airways and JNB like the plague. Depending on your final destination much better ways to get there

I know it doesn't make much sense for most or all Americans, but I've flown through Amsterdam twice with no issues. I would do it again. I have to apply for a free transit permit for the rifle and ammo, but it is easy to do.

KLM is a great airline. Great entertainment and food. The dam Airbus seats could be wider, but the 777 seats were fine. Great staff.

What does Customs have to do with Delta?

This

If I go to Namibia again I will avoid J'burg completely. Probably have to go the Qatar to Windhoek route with a few hour layover in Doha on the way. Quatar is way cheaper than Delta anyway.

I understand that KLM and Luthansa both were flying to Windhoek pre-Covid.