I watched the movie again last night and still have some questions for you hard core fans.
Early in the movie, Ramius meets with the Soviet political officer. Ramius asks "how many KGB agents are aboard". P.O. tells him "I'd be the last to know". Is that foreshadowing?
Next Ramius stages the PO's death, and has the ships doctor and a cook witness him taking the nuke key from the PO.
Ramius obviously has a plan to stage a "nuclear accident" to evacuate the crew.
I am still unsure which events were planned by Ramius and defecting officers and what the cook does.
- Is the cook a KGB agent put aboard? Is he just a nobody worried Ramius will attack the US?
- The first meltdown of the caterpillar drive. Was that staged by Ramius or sabotage?
- Radiation "accident" Ramius and Officers, or saboteur?
- Cook seemed to be very handy with a pistol at the end and somehow knew how to "hot-wire" the missiles. KGB?
Your take?
s the cook a KGB agent put aboard? Is he just a nobody worried Ramius will attack the US? No, just a die hard commie
- The first meltdown of the caterpillar drive. Was that staged by Ramius or sabotage? Sabotooge
- Radiation "accident" Ramius and Officers, or saboteur? sabotoogee
Coast to coast...No papers...
I have read only the initial post, so I am not cheating, but I will bet that it takes no time at all for someone to jump in with a denunciation of Baldwin's politics.
It's kind of implausible. A Soviet spy satellite would have found the sub hidden in Maine very soon after that. The Russians would have called that an act of war.
I have read only the initial post, so I am not cheating, but I will bet that it takes no time at all for someone to jump in with a denunciation of Baldwin's politics.
Another good reason to read the book (in addition to Hatari's questions)
Clancy's research and level of detail included were fantastic.
Read the book. No not a smart assed response.
Tom Clancy's singly authored books are a maze of information and interrelationships that are never properly dealt with in a movie script. If they were you'd end up with a 6 hour mini series. Especially when making an action driven summer blockbuster movie.
It's kind of implausible. A Soviet spy satellite would have found the sub hidden in Maine very soon after that. The Russians would have called that an act of war.
You'll like reading upon this:
GSF Explorer, formerly USNS Hughes Glomar Explorer (T-AG-193), was a deep-sea drillship platform built for Project Azorian, the secret 1974 effort by the United States Central Intelligence Agency's Special Activities Division to recover the Soviet submarine K-129.[3][4]
Cook was a KGB agent. Answers first and last question.
Radiation issues were falsified by Ramius as excuse to get his men off the boat.
Cook was a KGB agent. Answers first and last question.
Radiation issues were falsified by Ramius as excuse to get his men off the boat.
The book IS really much better, lest someone else take offense at humor...
Read the book. No not a smart assed response.
Tom Clancy's singly authored books are a maze of information and interrelationships that are never properly dealt with in a movie script. If they were you'd end up with a 6 hour mini series. Especially when making an action driven summer blockbuster movie.
Truth !
Cook was a KGB agent. Answers first and last question.
Radiation issues were falsified by Ramius as excuse to get his men off the boat.
The book IS really much better, lest someone else take offense at humor...
Reading, the forgotten leisure interest !
Shame really.
* another instant gratification, i want/need it now error in judgement by todays society
I cannot think of a case where the book was not better than the movie, but I still enjoy watching the movies to see how they depict what was written. One of the worst cases of "movie alteration" was with The Naked and the Dead, where the wrong deaths occurred. Also related to this is illustrators (especially of paperback covers) who do not bother to read the book before doing their drawing.
Cook was a KGB agent. Answers first and last question.
Radiation issues were falsified by Ramius as excuse to get his men off the boat.
The book IS really much better, lest someone else take offense at humor...
I did read the book once upon a time, and enjoyed it. It does jump around from one scene to the next and doesn't all come togther until the climax. You go from Ryan to Dallas, to Red October to Sec of State each chapter as I recall.
I cannot think of a case where the book was not better than the movie,
I think the Godfather I & II gave it a good run..
Book was great but the movie was thin and just mediocre. Cook was KGB and the radiation incident staged to get the crew to get off the ship. If this was real and the Soviets had discovered the Red October sometime later by satellite in Maine they would have never acknowledged the discovery due to the humiliation and embarrassment it would cause the Soviet Union and the Party.
the whole movie is a cheese game.
It's kind of implausible. A Soviet spy satellite would have found the sub hidden in Maine very soon after that. The Russians would have called that an act of war.
IIRC, in the book, they "hid" the Red October in Chesapeake Bay, not in Maine.
the whole movie is a cheese game.
lmao cheddar
It almost always is.......
It's kind of implausible. A Soviet spy satellite would have found the sub hidden in Maine very soon after that. The Russians would have called that an act of war.
We had a very good picture of what they could see and in what time frames.
Cook was a KGB agent. Answers first and last question.
Radiation issues were falsified by Ramius as excuse to get his men off the boat.
The book IS really much better, lest someone else take offense at humor...
I did read the book once upon a time, and enjoyed it. It does jump around from one scene to the next and doesn't all come togther until the climax. You go from Ryan to Dallas, to Red October to Sec of State each chapter as I recall.
I think Clancy was the one to popularize that kind of parallel storyline style of writing. I'd find myself caring a lot more about on story than another thread and then when they started merging having to go back and figure out what I missed!
None of Clancy's books ever really made a decent movie but the closest was Patriot Games.
Cook was a KGB agent. Answers first and last question.
Radiation issues were falsified by Ramius as excuse to get his men off the boat.
The book IS really much better, lest someone else take offense at humor...
Complete agreement. More texture, depth, side stories.
P
The Lord of the Rings movies were as good as the books.
Debt of Honor was prophetic. It predated 9/11 and had a Japanese airliner crashing into the capital building killing most of our government. I expect that this book inspired the Muslims who murdered 3,000 people on 9/11.
My favorite Clancy book is Red Storm Rising. It portrays WW3 with the Russians attacking Europe.
The Lord of the Rings movies were as good as the books.
Not by a long shot.
P
My favorite Clancy book is Red Storm Rising. It portrays WW3 with the Russians attacking Europe.
I agree 100%. His best book by far imo.
Speaking of movies, what the heck ever happened to that film where rednecks were kidnapped to be shot at by rich pinko liberals? The Hunt or something? That should be hitting theaters right about now, because I think what happens is the rednecks zap all the liberals.
the whole movie is a cheese game.
lmao cheddar
I see what you did there.
the whole movie is a cheese game.
lmao cheddar
I see what you did there.
Hell! 3D cheese game!
If you have some spare time, read Clancey's "The sum of all fears". Damn long, but, damn good.
Read the book. All will be made clear.
I have not read the book. Does it explain how the cook managed to be on board after "The Count" was correct when the crew was put off the sub?
Debt of Honor was prophetic. It predated 9/11 and had a Japanese airliner crashing into the capital building killing most of our government. I expect that this book inspired the Muslims who murdered 3,000 people on 9/11.
My favorite Clancy book is Red Storm Rising. It portrays WW3 with the Russians attacking Europe.
Much of the detail in his books was.
He must of had some good sources.
A good measure of the quality is that you couldn't burn through his single authored stuff the way you can with the stuff written by his apprenti...
The detail was at a much higher level.
Cook was a KGB agent. Answers first and last question.
Radiation issues were falsified by Ramius as excuse to get his men off the boat.
The book IS really much better, lest someone else take offense at humor...
I did read the book once upon a time, and enjoyed it. It does jump around from one scene to the next and doesn't all come togther until the climax. You go from Ryan to Dallas, to Red October to Sec of State each chapter as I recall.
I think Clancy was the one to popularize that kind of parallel storyline style of writing. I'd find myself caring a lot more about on story than another thread and then when they started merging having to go back and figure out what I missed!
None of Clancy's books ever really made a decent movie but the closest was Patriot Games.
I liked Clear And Present Danger. Killing drug dealers has always seemed like a good thing to me.
It's kind of implausible. A Soviet spy satellite would have found the sub hidden in Maine very soon after that. The Russians would have called that an act of war.
IIRC, in the book, they "hid" the Red October in Chesapeake Bay, not in Maine.
I think that would’ve been difficult. In warm weather there are small boats crossing every square inch of the Chesapeake. Don’t know about Maine.
But I thought it was a good movie.
My favorite Clancy book is Red Storm Rising. It portrays WW3 with the Russians attacking Europe.
I agree 100%. His best book by far imo.
Larry Bond did the heavy lifting writing that book, and he's done some good ones on his own, too. Bond is pretty good.
I have not read the book. Does it explain how the cook managed to be on board after "The Count" was correct when the crew was put off the sub?
He went back to get something and the CPO didn't recount as they got into the rafts.
The cook/political officer was true to reality also. It was the practice for the party to place both a publicly designated political officer and secret political officers.
Another vote for reading the book(s). A lot of good insight is missed in movies.
I've read most of Clancy's books to the point Ryan is president. Been awhile, I need to break them out again. Just finished listening to "Without Remorse"
Cook was a KGB agent. Answers first and last question.
Radiation issues were falsified by Ramius as excuse to get his men off the boat.
The book IS really much better, lest someone else take offense at humor...
I did read the book once upon a time, and enjoyed it. It does jump around from one scene to the next and doesn't all come togther until the climax. You go from Ryan to Dallas, to Red October to Sec of State each chapter as I recall.
I think Clancy was the one to popularize that kind of parallel storyline style of writing. I'd find myself caring a lot more about on story than another thread and then when they started merging having to go back and figure out what I missed!
None of Clancy's books ever really made a decent movie but the closest was Patriot Games.
I liked Clear And Present Danger. Killing drug dealers has always seemed like a good thing to me.
Have you read "Without Remorse"?
Best one, I can't remember the name, but it's all about John Clark. Great book. Lesson learned to bad guys, careful who you screw with.
Clancy wove Ramius’ethnicity in the story line purposely and it may not have been fully appreciated by some readers or movie goers. In real life, the Soviet Navy would have never given the keys to Red October to a Lithuanian. They would have been concerned that as soon as Ramius made the North Sea, Moscow would start taking on the appearance of the back side of the moon.
Cook was a KGB agent. Answers first and last question.
Radiation issues were falsified by Ramius as excuse to get his men off the boat.
The book IS really much better, lest someone else take offense at humor...
I did read the book once upon a time, and enjoyed it. It does jump around from one scene to the next and doesn't all come togther until the climax. You go from Ryan to Dallas, to Red October to Sec of State each chapter as I recall.
I think Clancy was the one to popularize that kind of parallel storyline style of writing. I'd find myself caring a lot more about on story than another thread and then when they started merging having to go back and figure out what I missed!
None of Clancy's books ever really made a decent movie but the closest was Patriot Games.
I liked Clear And Present Danger. Killing drug dealers has always seemed like a good thing to me.
Have you read "Without Remorse"?
Yes, John Kelly became John Clark to escape the law after he killed some bad guys in Baltimore after they killed a woman that he was trying to save. John Clark killed a lot of bad guys in a lot of different venues, just like you'd expect a SEAL to do.
Clancy wove Ramius ethnicity in the story line purposely and it may not have been fully appreciated by some readers or movie goers. In real life, the Soviet Navy would have never given the keys to Red October to a Lithuanian. They would have been concerned that as soon as Ramius made the North Sea, Moscow would start taking on the appearance of the back side of the moon.
IIRC, Ramius' father was a high ranking member of the Soviet Communist Party, so it was assumed that Ramius was a loyal communist.
In real life, it is unimaginable that any Balt since WW ll could have been placed in a key command position in the Soviet military system. There was just too much bloody history between the Balts and Soviets for that to happen. However, I have a few cousins in Vilnius with whom I correspond and I’ll ask if they are aware of any Balts that made it to the top of the pile in the Soviet military.
In real life, it is unimaginable that any Balt since WW ll could have been placed in a key command position in the Soviet military system. There was just too much bloody history between the Balts and Soviets for that to happen. However, I have a few cousins in Vilnius with whom I correspond and I’ll ask if they are aware of any Balts that made it to the top of the pile in the Soviet military.
Correct. They felt that only a true Russian would have an unwavering allegiance to the homeland.
Tom Clancy movies are, like "Lord of the Ring" movies, entertaining in the fact that it is interesting to see how the director might depict a specific scene here or there.
But neither the works of Clancy, nor Tolkien has ever been, nor ever will be totally and successfully rendered to film. The written volumes are just too complex to do so. Even a production equal to "Game of Thrones" could not accurately capture either of these authors.
Admittedly I last read Clancy in 2002 when Red Rabbit was released. But as I remember with Clancy and especially with Tolkien, the authors spend much time depicting their characters' thought processes and feelings. Emotions are fairly well expressed on the screen, feelings less so, and I have never seen any director/actor combination who could actually tell us what is going through a character's mind.
The Clancy novels depicting the life of "Jack Ryan" are best read in the order they were released, starting with "Red October" in '84 and ending with "Red Rabbit" in 2002.
Yes, the movies are entertaining in their own right. But to know the story, you gotta go read the book!
If you like the technology, science, and SONAR in Red October, look for another volume credited to Tom Clancy titled SSN. It is basically a tutorial to a Fast Attack Submarine Simulator also titled SSN. The book is written in novel form, and as a novel falls on its face. But as a read along while playing the scenarios in the video game it takes on a new life.
I cannot think of a case where the book was not better than the movie, but I still enjoy watching the movies to see how they depict what was written. One of the worst cases of "movie alteration" was with The Naked and the Dead, where the wrong deaths occurred. Also related to this is illustrators (especially of paperback covers) who do not bother to read the book before doing their drawing.
MY favorite paperback cover of all time was on a Zane Grey's "Nevada Smith".
Feller had a revolver - I think cap and ball, but maybe cartridge - firing - with the cases just flying out to the side.
I wish I'd kept it.
The Lord of the Rings movies were as good as the books.
Not by a long shot.
P
I think his point is they both suck. At least that's my take.
The Hunt for Red October is one of my all time favorite movies. I've seen it multiple times, but have never taken the time to read the book. Like Hatari, I've wondered what the cook has to do with the whole story. He just comes out of nowhere towards the end of the movie for a dramatic gun fight with Ryan. I suspect he ties in the saboteur sub-plot. I guess reading the book would answer that question.
However, the one big head scratcher for me is the whole plot premise. The Russians spend lots of time and money to develop the super secret and stealthy Red October, only to be found out on its maiden voyage by a hot shot audio technician on the Dallas completely independent any of Ramius' plans. Bad luck for the Russians? Good luck for the Americans? Clancy's commentary on the sophistry of war? Maybe the book address this too.
As for Mr. Baldwin as Jack Ryan; I really hate, but gotta say that IMHO he's the best most believable of the four (by my count, Baldwin, Ford, Pine, and Krasinski) actors that have played him.