And they have a long-lasting effect. There hasn't been another riot at Kent State in over 50 years.

When was there a “riot” at Kent State?

4 dead in Ohio..1969 I think?

NG ended up killing people not part of the protest..good job...not..

I remember that day. And all the pictures in the newspaper the days after.

I was halfway around the world protecting the freedom of those rioters- - - - - -and wondering when,( or if) I would ever get to meet my son who was less than a month old at the time. They chose to misuse that freedom and suffered the consequences of their actions. I could not gen up any sympathy for them then, and the passage of 50 years hasn't changed my opinion. Also, I can't condemn the young men who defended themselves against their attacks.
Jerry

Dead hippies = Good hippies

They were there. So they were part of it.

The antifa fuggs use the same strategy today get in behind the protestors get them riled up and push them forward. It shouldn't take to smart an LEO at elevation to spot the agitators and take them out. It is time to take the gloves off.

So let's do away with the First Amendment...it was a protest, not a riot...in case you missed it there is a difference.

I didn't say anything about that. Only rebutted what you said about them not being part of it.

The thing about the protest and these now: They are not lawful.

so protests aren't lawful? since when?

There was no riot at Kent State. Nobody was doing anything illegal.

Of the four killed, one was jeering at the NG from about 50 yards away, one was quietly watching what was going on, and two were walking to their classes, a couple of hundred yards away. They were avoiding the demonstration.

The night before, the ROTC building was burned to the ground. The perpetrators were later tried and convicted. None were Kent State students.

The families of the dead received a settlement from the State of Ohio.

Governor Jim Rhodes was kicked out of office at the next election.

For many years, Kent State University tried to ignore what had happened. Now they have built small memorials at each of the four spots where people died. You can go see them. You can go see where the NG stood. They also have a field where they've planted 58,300 daffodils. Looking at that you can see what a stupid blunder the whole Viet Nam War was. It's a helluva lot of daffodils.

Don't pontificate about things you know nothing about.

Where did you get this misguided interpretation of events?

That’s not even close to what happened.

see Indys post...

https://laststandonzombieisland.fil...ebruary-1945-iwo-jima-e1582608397769.jpg

The protesters that tried to shut down I-35 in Austin got the hell shot out of them.
Rubber bullets and beanbags are no fun. Media had the unlucky ones pictures on T.V.

Note to self: don't obstruct interstate commerce.

Missed and hit people in background?

Your “facts” don’t match the facts.

https://www.kent.edu/may-4-historical-accuracy



The answer offered by the Guardsmen is that they fired because they were in fear of their lives. Guardsmen testified before numerous investigating commissions as well as in federal court that they felt the demonstrators were advancing on them in such a way as to pose a serious and immediate threat to the safety of the Guardsmen, and they therefore had to fire in self-defense. Some authors (e.g., Michener, 1971 and Grant and Hill, 1974) agree with this assessment. Much more importantly, federal criminal and civil trials have accepted the position of the Guardsmen. In a 1974 federal criminal trial, District Judge Frank Battisti dismissed the case against eight Guardsmen indicted by a federal grand jury, ruling at mid-trial that the government's case against the Guardsmen was so weak that the defense did not have to present its case. In the much longer and more complex federal civil trial of 1975, a jury voted 9-3 that none of the Guardsmen were legally responsible for the shootings. This decision was appealed, however, and the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a new trial had to be held because of the improper handling of a threat to a jury member.

The legal aftermath of the May 4 shootings ended in January of 1979 with an out-of-court settlement involving a statement signed by 28 defendants(3) as well as a monetary settlement, and the Guardsmen and their supporters view this as a final vindication of their position. The financial settlement provided $675,000 to the wounded students and the parents of the students who had been killed. This money was paid by the State of Ohio rather than by any Guardsmen, and the amount equaled what the State estimated it would cost to go to trial again. Perhaps most importantly, the statement signed by members of the Ohio National Guard was viewed by them to be a declaration of regret, not an apology or an admission of wrongdoing:

Yep. Killed people walking to class several hundred yards away.

YES. NG must have seen them advancing from several hundred yards away.

You're a clueless ass, aren't you?

You didn't "rebut" anything.
You only proved your own total ignorance and despicable character.

I keep a plastic bucket full of rubber snakes and a bag full of loose Newports in the truck....
If "protestors" surround me I'll toss the smokes out , count to 3 then toss the rubber snakes.
I figure that will get 95% of them off me.

I intend to keep my foot on the gas..............

i don't think you know what actually happened there. The communists have somehow been in charge of that history.

A stiff hand to the rear when the brats were five years old.

I remember it, it was the same day me and my bride celebrated our 60th wedding anniversary.

absolutely

For clarity...If the NG or police accurately hit only protesters or demonstrators who are attempting to burn a car, building, home, or using a weapon against the above capable of serious injury or death.

Are you okay with shots being fired to stop the action of arson or physical assault with intent to injure or kill?

😎

Haven't had a wedding anniversary in 30 years.

a lot of brave young men and women died, because they were told they were protecting the world from Communists. perhaps we should have kept them here. enlighten me on what really happened

IF they were there they shouldn't have been. Those National Guardsmen had bricks thrown at them. You get hit with a brick and you could get killed! They certainly did a good jog that day.

missed the brick throwing Communists, but managed to kill students just trying to get to class. wonderful marksmanship

I wasn't t there, I only know what I've read! Just like all the rest of this group!

Thanks, Oregon.

Killed (and approximate distance from the National Guard):

Jeffrey Glenn Miller; 265 ft (81 m) shot through the mouth; killed instantly.
Allison B. Krause; 343 ft (105 m) fatal left chest wound; dead on arrival.
William Knox Schroeder; 382 ft (116 m) fatal chest wound; died almost an hour later in a local hospital while undergoing surgery. He was a member of the campus ROTC battalion.
Sandra Lee Scheuer; 390 ft (120 m) fatal neck wound; died a few minutes later from loss of blood.


Wounded (and approximate distance from the National Guard):

Joseph Lewis, Jr.; 71 ft (22 m); hit twice; once in his right abdomen and once in his lower left leg.
John R. Cleary; 110 ft (34 m); upper left chest wound.
Thomas Mark Grace; 225 ft (69 m); hit in his left ankle.
Alan Michael Canfora; 225 ft (69 m); hit in his right wrist.
Dean R. Kahler; 300 ft (91 m); back wound fracturing the vertebrae; permanently paralyzed from the chest down.
Douglas Alan Wrentmore; 329 ft (100 m); hit in his right knee.
James Dennis Russell; 375 ft (114 m); hit in his right thigh from a bullet and grazed on his right forehead by either a bullet or birdshot; both wounds minor (wounded near the Memorial Gymnasium, away from most of the other students).
Robert Follis Stamps; 495 ft (151 m); hit in his right buttock.
Donald Scott MacKenzie; 750 ft (230 m); neck wound.

For the sake of historical discussion

13 Vendémiaire

"a wiff of Grapeshot", worked very well for Napoleon, for mob control.

(With apologies to Thomas Carlyle)

Fly on some rotten soybeans.

There was rioting and the ROTC building on Kent State campus was burned. Some students tried to stop the fire fighters from putting the fire our.

https://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/kent-state-shooting#section_5

Warning shots land somewhere, and so are a bad idea in general.

I used to know a few of the Guardsmen at Kent State. They all, to a man, would say they were way in over their training, and the situation for them was getting worse by the minute. No one argues that firing into the crowd was a good idea, but that’s what happens when you give scared kids guns and not specific rules of engagement. Bad stuff always is the result.

Back then, the Guard was under funded, under trained and less professional. I have no doubt that some of them thought they were in danger (fast forward to today’s “protests” and some of the people that I personally have trained are out there, and they’re afraid) and thought firing into the crowd was prudent and necessary.

The best thing to ever happen to the Guard was the first Gulf war, and the second best was the second Gulf war. It forced big Army and big Air Force to create one standard for training and proficiency and to train up the Guard to Meet that standard, using weapon systems in common with the Active components.

Only the Guard is called out with police powers for crowd control, the Active components can’t due to Posse Commentates. It’s hard to train for, and crowd control is more like trying to tame gorilla warfare than it is like policing. It’s all versions of chaos when the aggressors (the crowd) are the very people who the Soldiers have sworn to protect, and the Guardsmen and Guardswomen are from the same communities as the crowd, and in many cases are the same young age as the crowd. It is full with peril and all decisions will be second-guesses by people who were not there, an have no concept of the disorder involved.

All the worst parts of the fog of war, and family feuds.

No one with any sense sees Kent State as anything other than a failure across the board.

But, it’s also wrong to lionize the crowd and hold them blameless, while vilifying the Soldiers, most of whom were kids themselves.

Another Anti-Constitution, Anti-American, Big-talking, fascist [bleep]. Nothing new around here.

Mayor Richard J. Daley gave police the authority "to shoot to kill any arsonist or anyone with a Molotov cocktail in his hand ... and ... to shoot to maim or cripple anyone looting any stores in our city."
Methods: Rioting, race riots, protests, looting, a...
Date: April 5, 1968 – April 7, 1968
Location: Chicago, Illinois, United States; 41°5...
Death(s): 11

It's time for some mayors to say the same thing in their cities, or be removed.

It sent a message and the message was received.

Ordering cops to “shoot to kill” is not only idiotic, it’s unconstitutional. It’s not a capital offense to have a Molotov cocktail.

And “shoot to kill” is asinine in almost all cases of crowd or riot control. Name a case where someone was shot by police in a riot and it turned out better for the police or city.

Shoot to stop. “Your honor, he was doing ______, which put others’s lives in danger and I shot him to stop that harm.”

If you’re shooting for any other reason, you’re part of the problem and displaying gross dumb fuqueitide.

If some of you youngsters haven't heard of Kent State and the Vietnam protests it is the fault of the teaching system. I was in high school and had the "benefit" of the news media. Later, in '74, I came home from work and sat down to see the TV news and saw an article about a black man that was stabbed many times, died, and during the whole article there was a cartoon of a revolver in the upper corner of the screen. That was confirmation that as far as news media, we are screwed! So I don't know if we got the whole facts of the Kent State Riots. Or not? Be Well, Rustyzipper.

Your post should be deleted until you list race of killed.

Often overlooked is the fact those rioters burnt down the city of Kent the night before the shooting. You throw a rock I throw lead.

Stupidest comment I've ever read.

I suppose if BLM burned down the nearest city to you, it would be justified for the military to come out to your house and shoot your wife, who had nothing to do with it.

For the record, no one burned down the city of Kent. "They" burned down the ROTC building. The perps were later caught and turned out not to be Kent State students.

Where they shouldn't have been? 100 yards away? Someone throws bricks that far?

Some Christian you are. Hmmmph!

For the record, the subsequent legal proceedings established that it was the Guard, not the students, who were at fault.

May 4 1970 I was a senior in HS about 30 miles east of Kent State. At 10:30 I was sitting in study hall with three friends deciding to skip school the rest of the day and drive to KSU to see what was going on. Two of the guys I was talking to were enrolled there for the fall semester. Around noon we got on the road in my very spacious '57 Plymouth and headed west. At about 12:45 we got to exit 33 Hartville/Kent and were stopped told to cross the hwy 43 bridge and head back to Youngstown to cause trouble there. The shootings had already occurred but we had no idea.
When I got home that night my father was watching the news and we were talking about it when news footage flashed on the screen and there was the old "57 Plymouth at the top of the off ramp getting told by a Summit county Sheriff to get my azz home. There was a lot of WTF were you thinking? Couldn't tell the truth because back then if I wasn't thinking with my Johnson, I probably wasn't thinking at all. Side note. My cousin dated one of the girls that was shot,when they both attended Boardman HS, in a Youngstown suburb.
Fast forward- I graduate, got a job in a garage and went about my business until 1972 when I was convinced by a friend to become a deputy sheriff.
May 1975 brought about talk of an anniversary march at KSU. Several Sheriff's departments sent deputies to assist the locals in case things got ugly. We were grouped with a local LEO and we patrolled the campus perimeter. At one point he said let me show you something and headed away from campus to a farm where we met with a group of Ohio NG. As we were leaving the local guy said "don't worry about them shooting anyone today, they weren't issued any live ammo."
This past May, fifty years later I look back and think about all of it and how these shootings may have had some impact on the duration of the war that ended the lives of many of my friends. I also wonder today what history will say fifty years from now. I doubt anything good will come of this years events.

A dark day in our history by any account. Tragic

to say that these riots were peaceful just shows your were not there and that you believe the twisted stories printed. did the students put flowers in rifle barrels? your bet, they would put a flowers in a barrel and then throw a brick at the guard or cops. whole bricks. not rocks.

this was not a simple chanting crowd. at times there were thousands of protesters- OSU probably had 5 to 10 thousand at any given time. it looked like a football game with 80,000 had just let out.


i witnessed a greyhound bus get rolled onto its side by the nice students. it was full of cops and as they crawled out they were getting hit with bricks pried up from the street.



to judge these events from what you read is not fair. anyone involved in trying to control this would have been aware of the danger and knew of people who got hurt.

We need more people like you teaching in school and college so the perps won't be afraid to break the law.

Why then did the NG get off? For some reason some of the facts have been lost over the years.

When you are genuinely in fear of your life, and you shoot to defend your self, that’s not “getting off.”

And, you’re right, maybe I should be teaching constitutional law. That way the rioters would understand escalation of force and disparity of force, the assumption an “unarmed” but much larger force can cause you mortal danger, and a one can react to the mob as if they pose a mortal danger

Maybe then people on the inter webs would quit acting like a mob who burned down a building the day before, and we’re actively throwing bricks at the Guardsmen became peaceful over night when they had time to rest up in their jammies and drink some chocolate milk?

Revisionist history much?

Every one of you sound like an idiot.

Read a book or two.

It's easily explained.

The last time I tried to explain Graham vs. Connor on this website, The Duck of Dumb cited the 8th Amendment.

LOL

The 8th amendment is the Delaware of the Bill of Rights.

Dis one?

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/490/386/

All these years and decades, you've had access to the same information I had. I'm not going to spoonfeed it to you.

Here's a hint for ya: Turn CNN off once in a while. You aren't going to find the truth there.

They didn't. The lawsuits could not establish who (if anyone) ordered them to fire, or who fired first, or even who fired and who didn't. Some fired high deliberately. But the guard itself, and its parent, the State of Ohio, had to pay $672,000 (if memory serves me) to the survivors of each of the victims.

Thank you.

I'm thinking wrist rockets (high powered sling shots) and a few marbles would get some folks attention.

kwg

'probably the biggest lesson ever learned at an American place of learning'

Neil Young

We could have waited until now since they're here. We are seeing many folks with a hammer and sickle on shirts and on signs at the riots. Any idea when we can start protecting us from them?

That can't come soon enough to suit me.
Paul B.