My son is doing his Boy Scout Eagle project which requires him setting 14 4"x4" posts. He is using 8 foot pressure treated posts. They will be in ground about 2 to 2.5 feet. They will be cut down to 5 feet high. These are free standing posts that will not have any load on them. On each post will be affixed a wooden sign roughly 14" tall by 8" wide of 1" cedar, so negligible weight.

What is the easiest way to set the posts? It needs to be sturdy, last many years, and not rot. Our soil is heavy red clay. I was hoping some of you ranchers and contractors could offer advice. Also the cheaper the better. He is doing this for a pretty poor Parish so I felt like fund raising there with so many struggling right now was not the right thing to do. I'm picking up most of the costs but he is chipping in with what little he has so I'm trying to watch the budget.

I was hoping sand, gravel or anything but mixing concrete. He wants to do it right regardless of the work or expense so if he has to do concrete he will.

Thanks in advance for all the help. -tnscouter

Concrete tends to rot the wood. Consider using stone dust. Packs tight, holds well, allows drainage and allows for easy replacement.

I just had to dismantle a deck I built in '97 because a tree fell on it. When I built it I dug the post holes, set post plumb/square in hole and backfilled hole with dry concrete mix and poured water in the hole. (no pre mixing) It would be almost impossible to tell by looking that the concrete wasn't pre-mixed. For sign posts I would think you could get by with less concrete, maybe one bag split between four posts. go back in a day or so and backfill the rest of the hole with dirt.

Don't pour concrete around them or they will rot off. Soak the end going in the ground in old used oil for a few days, build a tamping bar out of 1' pipe with a flat end welded on one end or just buy a tamping bar. Tamp the holes with the dug out dirt up to ground level then pour about 2' of sacked asphalt on top of the tamped dirt to keep water from setting in the hole. If you did this to a bois de arc, bo dark, horseapple post it would last 100 years.

Skip the concrete for your needs. It will only rot the posts even faster.
I would go 3’ on my holes and tamp as I backfill. Mound the dirt slightly around the post as you tamp. This will help shed some water away from the post.

This

I've done it both ways, set in concrete, and not used concrete. Have never been able to tell a difference. I have used crossties, treated posts, and cedar. As has already been said, I just dump the concrete mix around the post, pour some water in the hole, and that's it. If the ground is already wet, you don't need much water at all.

For sign posts all you need to do is bury the posts 3' and pack the natural soil every 8-10" as you back fill.

JamesJr: When you didn't use concrete with what did you backfill? Thanks -tnscouter

12344mag: Thanks for your response. We have very hard red clay which is not too good for the backfill because it is darn near impossible to break up and compact well. Is your soul the same and if so how did it work out? Thanks -tnscouter

I have experimented with all of it from the high country to here in the midwest on the farm. I like treating the bottom regardless if it is PT or not. Keep good positive drainage away from bottom of post and the results will be favorable.

troublesome82: What do you use for backfill? Thanks -tnscouter

Same as Hanco and Uncle Joe.Dry concrete and add water stir.I have had post in 40 years this way. Big difference in treated post for landscaping and treated post for direct bury though.I always paint on wood preservative with either one.

There are three grades of pressure-treated lumber. Above ground, contact with ground, and in ground, you can do further research on this on the internet. It is very difficult to get good lumber from Home Depot.

Dock pilings are even more saturated with pressure treating CCA... chromium copper and arsenic. Pressure treating changed to a different compound 10 years ago and drop the arsenic I forget all the particulars anymore.

The best four by fours are Cedar... Eastern red cedar to be more specific. I took down a 60 year old fence made of this. I saved the wood from the fence post and used it to make furniture. It was perfect.

All of this has to do with my soil type conditions. Your soil type may be more or far less harmful to Lumber than mine.

Setting a post. Tamp the bottom as best you can. Set a large flat bottom at the bottom of the hole. Begin back filling the hole with the spoils of the digging. Each 25% of the hole you backfill... verify Plumb and square each 25%. You can adjust plum bye camping the back fill dirt on the opposite side of lean.

IMHO... never dig a hole and fill it with wet concrete then shove a post into the concrete. This method hold water in the concrete recess and rots out the bottom of the post much much faster.

Structurally, concrete is not needed because you have a large-diameter Flat Rock for bearing. The time you save having to drive to the store to buy concrete and either dry bag... or mix would be better spent digging a good deep hole and tampng the bottom of your hole and tamping the dirt as you backfill.

Use the new 2 part foam won't rot post will not move but somewhat costly. If you do not want to spend the $ then just backfill and tamp go 3' deep either way. My son owns a fence company this is what he does.

These days, you can buy 2 kinds of treated post...... one kind is made for ground contact and the other is not. The treated landscaping timbers sold at the discount home building stores are not made for ground contact, they will rot in a few years, if placed on the ground or in cement. I learned this by building flower beds for the wife and a dog pen. 4-5 years and the bottom post was rotted in the flower beds and I broke all the dog pen post off at the top of the cement, with 1 hand, they were rotted.

You used the word "parish", so you might be in La. Because of the abundance of rain, I'd go with a post that is made for ground contact and to stay on the cheap, I'd just backfill and tamp good with soil. Back when we had cattle and had to build fences, we'd use creosote (I dont think you can get them anymore) post and just backfill and tamp good. Good post would last 15-20 yrs. 2' deep on a post the will only be 5' out of the ground is plenty to hold up the signs you mentioned.

Put up several 6'x8' stockade panels about six years ago, as a "safety barrier" between one of our club traps and the archery sand pit about 100' off to one side of the trap. 4x4 treated posts 30" in the ground, back filled them from the pile of asphalt road millings we had on hand. People bitched about not using concrete, told me the wind would knock those panels over, or least have them leaning in short order.

They're still there,still perfectly intact and plumb. I generally fill post holes with crushed stone or gravel, whichever is handy.

There are treated, round posts made for fencing. Miles and miles of them in farm country, with high tensile fencing on them. Where I hunt, some of those fences have been holding beef cattle for over 25 years.

I never knew this was sooooooo hard. The last post setting thread 6 months ago went 30 pages

When I was 14,15 yrs old- we sawed down honey locust, dug a hole 18” deep with post-hole-diggers and dropped the raw post in there. Jammed a bunch of rocks in the with a tamper rod and piled the dirt back in there. Next hole...lather rinse repeat




Now today, with treated, same thing but I use concrete in there. 15 years here in Rain Every 3 Days Tennessee, they are not rotten yet.

Maybe I need some master Sgt stripes for all the posts I’ve set. Every time we moved every three years in the army, we had to fence 20-30 acres for my mother’s dumb ass horses.

This will work fine for this application. Suggest have a level to get the posts perfectly vertical.

6 pages easy by 10 pm cst!!!!

I'm with the dirt that came out of the post hole school on this. As said tamp well, a level to keep the post plumb might help, as well as a wire, or string to make a straight line.

Right, because every sub division collie dog owner that set 6 posts in their whole life has to put his/her ASTM My Neighbor Was An Engineer 2 cents in.

In before.....nail your empty swanson turkey pot pie foil tins on the sky side of the post butt

You are right, maybe I should start to read about how many rocks you put in a pillow case when you have to drown a litter of kittens

I love horse,s as pets!!!!
And everything that revoles around them!!!
Dont ride em....
Ever.
Nice expensive high maintenance useless pets.
Just look at em and never think of all the cost associated with em.

They are awesome to have as pets!!!

Especially when others get sucked into the mandatory vortex of them as someone else,s dream pets.



LOL!!!!!





^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Useless and burden"
Could be added into this somehow for giant pet mode.....

LOL!!!!

One for each kitten and 2 for the pillow case

Important note- make sure it clears the trees before you heave it out the window over the bridge at traffic speed.

Are you an engineer or did you stay at a Motel 6 last night?

There used to be an excellent post setting video on Martha Stewart’s YouTube channel.

You owe me a keyboard dammit.

Who the fugg wastes a good pillow case on kittens?!

Body in left hand, head in right, twist top that sumbitch and on to the next.

Wood is for city slickers. Oilfield tubing and sackcrete, be there for decades. Welding shop should have any size cap you’ll need so you don’t have to orange peel the tops.

This thread has potential .


Only scottish folds and siamese kittens deserve the pillow case end all.....


LOL!!!


Hey Slumlord how times back in the day did you think about putting a Remingdog yellow jacket into " National Velvets" noggin???
Thats the movie that started your moms pet horse obsession I bet.


LOL!!!

Fess up man .
You know you wanted too......
Lol!!!

I’ve set a few in 2B stone.

Set a schit load of pickets back in day.
Not wood , so Im totally off the meat of the basic subject matter as usual.
Single, double, and triple strand concertina barriers ( not fence)
All over this orb....

That count for anything?????

Even made up a poem long ago.

"An ode to concertina"
Schitt about bullet sparks in it.
Tracers going thru it.
FPL,s and FPF,s.
Organs dried on it hanging in the sunlight.
Body,s sagged over it.
Channeling into kill zone stuff.
Ect ect ect
Basic Dr. Demento stuff....

I seen that happen on The A-Team

Never heard of em.....


They ever lay down concertina along antitank ditch at NTC by any chance in a 150 man work party at night with a hit time on their azz ready to rock in the dawn with vizmod sheridans bearing down on em.

Good times until you got the schits by a yucca bush in a pro mask and the CS is wallowing.

Then after its all done for the day and the AAR,s are done.

Time to go recover the concertina materials.

Yep
You guessed it.
You will lay that schitt down again for the next defensive mission.

Big old sigh of relief when the missions turn over to offensive ones.
See ya later concertina.
Until we have ta do breech ops for offense on ya....
Too easy doing that schit with well set up supporting fires direct and indirect.

Repeat planet wide
Training and real world...

Good times....
Kinda......


LOL!!!

Dirt that came out of the hole.

Yes

I shot one of mama’s goats with that 788.
Kept getting head stuck in the wire, kept getting out

If you love something, set it free

I've got more than a little experience setting posts for fences, barb wire and high tensile electric. Those are loaded and as long as they are braced well in corners they work fine with simple tamping....we do have a sandy loam soil so that can make a difference, the sandy soil packs TIGHT.

For a non-loaded 4x4 post there's no need to do anything other than tamp....the quality of the pressure treat of the wood is going to make more difference on how long they last than anything.....someone will probably want them moved before the end of their useful life.

For your application , dig a hole as you see fit. Then tamp the dirt back in the hole about every 6-8 "

Most all the trtd you can get at lowes is deck lumber. .25 lbs per foot of dissolved compound ACQ or CCA

If you want it for ground contact used to be you had to go .60 or more


I submersible dock pilings are like really lumped with the green juice, 1.0-20

You see it on the little yella wood tag or top gun tag on the butt end or whatever lowes calls their brands. Top choice, top gun whatever lol

You two seem truly smitten , but all good things must come to an end ......kinda like Steelhead’s run on the “first to 100k”

What kinda chainsaw should he use to cut the posts??

You are very intuitive " Bob".
I shoulda lurked for awhile and got 411 familiarity before I became a member.
Kudo,s to you for preparing to become a member by recon at 1st.


Who are ya man
Your real previous username???


LOL!!!

helical pile

Bob is one of the “good guys”

He knows Beaver’s birthday and gets dick picks from Kingston


He’s on his way to a hundred K


👍😃

Is he????
Well just in case he ain't who you might be speculating...

LOL!!!

I hope nothing I ever did on here drove " Bob" one of the good guys away.
And caused him to make a sock puppet.

"Bob" if this is the case....
I am truly deeply heartfelt sorry for that.
I freely admit I went full blown retard mode back then.
Something looking back on it all now I do regret in many instances of it all.
I can't change it " Bob".
Only can do my best to be better each day.
" Bob" many of the good guys are coming back as of late under their
preferred usernames, and people are glad to see em posting again.
Just do it " Bob"
Just do it man....

4X4 treated posts are the frame for millions of residential fences in the west.

There is a reason why 95% of professional fence builders and 95% of amateur fence builders all use the same method.

One, 50 lb bag of cheap concrete per post.
Dig a 5” to 6” hole and pour about ¼ of the bag dry in the hole.
Pack the dry concrete down, set the post and level it.
Mix the rest of the concrete and pour, filling to ground level.
Should last 20+ years.

Two things that will make it last longer.
Seal the bottom of the post with some type of fence/deck waterproofing.
Use the more expensive concrete.

Nothin like that

He’s just funnin, sheriff


I’ve had a few sock pullets before. It’s hilarious.

Sharon Peters was one of my best ones.

Putting the post in tightened dirt also works.

I have no idea where all this concrete stuff came from.

Maybe the concrete industry.

" Bob" knows...

Just like "Bo Knows"

LOL!!!

Wittman 2 days
Kodiak45 less than a day.

I suck at sockpuppets...

Thats why you guys would never let me take Catman925 (or what the fugg ever # it was) out for a test drive....

LOL!!!


IIRC their was even a funeral event thread on Catman.
With pics, effort, time, planning, and back rent never paid....

LOL!!!!

I just tamp them in with a 15 pound bar. Don't fill more than 6 inches before you start tamping. The hole should have a couple inches of clearance all around the post for the bar. Just use the natural soil. The bar will break it up just fine. Some 3/4 crush mixed in can help, if you are not doing a lot of posts. I have dug and set miles of posts and continue to do so today. I kind of enjoy it. Mindless work. Good exercise. A little harder than it was fifty years ago. GD

1. dig hole

2. put post in hole

3. tamp in real tight, keeping it straight up and dicular.

4. repeat as needed.

Concrete doesn't rot pressure treated posts, dirt and moisture will eventually rot them out causing failure.

Dig hole to at least 18". Throw a shovel full of rock in bottom of hole for drainage.

Set post on top of drain rock layer and backfill post hole with concrete. Check plumb repeatedly.

Be sure concrete level is above ground level so surrounding dirt never touches wood. That is what rots wooden posts.

Concrete isn't necessary.

Congrats on your son obtaining Eagle Scout

The kid will be way out of scouting by the time any 4x4 post sunk 2’ deep holding up a sign every becomes an issue. I just finished up a fence last weekend and used cedar 4x4’s and Quickcrete in each hole. The wife is scared that one of her teetering friends is going to fall into it, so overbuilt beats under built.

Back when I was a kid, we use wood post that we cut and split on the place. They were cedar, black cherry, sassafras, or post oak for the most part. We filled the holes with dirt that came out of the hole, tamped using a shovel handle mostly. They would rot right at the ground line, after a long time. Some people pulled them and flipped them at around 20 years, putting the top in the ground. miles

Best way to set a wood post,, get someone else to do it...

Sawmill cut locust 4x4's. If they are dry, you will need to drill nail holes. For me.

For the OP.

I would drop a flat rock or bigger in the hole first, tamp the dirt, or limestone dust,
Or cement. Never used the foam, it's probably fine.
3
Cap or bevel the top so water runs off.

When they are junk, my $20 says,

They rotted right at the ground level,
on top,
Or where the sign held moisture on them.


They most likely will not rot below ground.

Excellent point.

Duh.

Even girls know.

Do your friends tease you when you wear that hat out?

When cement bedded post rot and need to be replaced, it's a bitch. I've cursed the original builder of the decorative fence around my yard many times. See if one can find some durable wood (osage), and tamp them in.

I helped put in a couple of miles of 5 strand fence about 40 years ago on the family place, and it is still standing. Hardwood posts, the bottom ends liberally painted with creosote or used sump oil, put into the hole and the soil progressively tamped in using the blunt end of a heavy fencing crowbar. The subsoil is heavy clay on most of the place, and that is what goes back into the hole first, keeping the topsoil to go in last.

I've also put in garden fencing the same way, but using treated pine, and one I did 20-odd years ago is still sound. I suspect that the hardwood will outlast it though.

No one bothers to "tease" a real man..................................








girlie hat or not.

Bob spelled backwards is Yror.

Threaten to hold somebody down and stick Valsdad’s fungus filled ,uncut toenails in their mouth ......


Unless they dig and set the post for you





Happy Trails




Bob

#Rory?

That might get 'er done.

I'd do it to myself, as I've got some hole what need dug and some posts set.....................



but that would be foolish.

Has Kellory chimed in yet?

No .....
That was " Tom"

Lol!!!

He has been busy setting multiple daisy chained bent over saplings.
With jackknife killing points to get some does and fawns for the freezer.
Homonculli( sp?).....
Has been giving tech advice to him, while monitoring his marine wifes online cbd oil with and without THC on his phone app.

Must depend on where you're at, what's available and what sort of fence is being put up?

Helped my kinfolk "fix fence" in the spring time more than once, going back 40 years ago. Split locust posts and three or four strand barbed wire. Most of those fences were four strand in dairy cow "day pastures" and three strand for the "night pasture" closer to the dairy barn..Apparently the holsteins got rowdier during the daytime?

Springtime the ground is still wet and ain't hardened up yet. Poke a hole in the damp earth with a heavy digging bar (pointed end, not spade end). Spin the bar around to make an inverted cone-shaped hole, insert sharpened post, set that piece of locust with a post maul. If my uncle had located a handy locust grove, we cut/pointed our own posts, but he usually just bought a pile of pre-pointed posts. We liked that option better.

Because if we had to point 'em ourselves, that meant using the belt-driven buzz saw that went on the front of one of his Farmalls. Flying chunks of locust were never really appreciated. Some of those posts I helped set over 30 years ago, are still there.