My daughter's friend bought a new saddle recently. Well, her folks probably bought it.

Thats sort of a big deal. I have never even picked up a new saddle before.

She was out riding a while ago and got next to the windbreak and the stirrup caught on something. Broke the stirrup leather right off.


Well, I says I can fix it.....given enough time. We were combining when they brought it over.

I ordered some 3 inch skirting leather from Montana Leather in Billings.

Punched some holes, beveled and edgekote ed the sided.

Decided to change em both. Not common to break a leather like that. This is heavy, good quality skirting leather I used.


Oiled em up good and riveted and stitched them. The stitching is not very good, but I was just following the original stitch lines.....just hogging them out with a large stitching awl as I went.


Used some heavy ass wax thread and the biggest needles I had.


They were not glued from the factory. I will probably do that next time.


Anyway....got to fix a little girl's brand new saddle.

Here it is, installed.

The stirrup leather runs under the seat and goes over one bar on the tree.

These were punched for a Blevins style quick adjust.



And yes.....my saddle repair shop is in my living room.....

That's a heck of a nice job. Too bad this happened on a new saddle. It looks like a cutting saddle.

Nice job Jim,
Good on ya for helping that little girl.......

You need a new foot rest the other one kind of ripped up

Oh I see some almond joy wrappers to those are pretty good ..

Foot rest...I was wonderin' what those were called.

Nicely done Jim.

Nice work.

Jim, you did a hell of a nice job on the repair.

Little girls like pretty new saddles. They do not care that they could get real quality for the same cost or less on the used market.

Cinch rings hanging off the skirts, instead of rigging over the tree?
Nails and screws holding the whole thing together, instead of saddle strings and lacing?
About 30 lbs all up?
Not a rawhide wrapped wooden tree?.
Padded seat to wear out or rip?

My daughter bought a very similar saddle for the oldest G daughter when she was about 13. We spent a lot of time keeping that thing put back together.

Good job...new saddles are a thing of beauty!

You got things looking good there Jim.

Way to go.

Good job!

You're a handy man to have around, Jim!

A lost art Jim, by the way, what do they call a saddle, harness repair man?

Made a little girls day you did, that's what it's all about.

Multipurpose room, shows smarts but you probably should pick up your toys before you begin a new project........

Great job Big Jim!

Looks like a banner job to me Jim!

You guys oils the stirrup leathers and stick a broomstick in the stirrups to turn them?

Outstanding. I am envious of your leather skills.

I have a good example of them. And you are a Good Man for taking care of the ki'ds needs. At their age, that would be a major heartbreak.

As for the comments above, my kids live with me too and our place is just like that: lived and loved in.

Looks better than my saddle. Mine's probably 120-140 years old though.

Good for you , Jim.
I like to pitch in also when I see a need . Luckily I have a leather/ harness sewing machine in my shop for repairs. (That way I can overbuild to the ridiculous, but I am happy) Good on you for your time and effort for the girl.

Dip it in the water trough, then stick a handle through it to turn the stirrups out, then let it dry.

Excellent work , dude. That leather craft is a dying art. Not many do it anymore. I am in the process of rebuilding my saddle that I have had since early 80's. It is a labor of love.

Nice work Jim, I had to look it up, a man that makes, and repairs saddles, and harness is saddler. A lost art for sure.

A guy who could do nicely making custom holsters and scabbards?

I think you found a nice "side hustle"
Truly nice work.

Had a saddle stand many years ago that had a steel plate with notches cut that fit the corresponding part on a piece of steel of wood going longways, with a sideways piece that fit in the stirrups. Was grand because you could turn the stirrups and put them under weight. If you do it when oiled they take a set that stays as opposed to soaking them in water that'll just dry out the leather and then you're looking for cracks at the stress points. Key has always seemed to me to put the turn in with weight in the stirrups. Had some buddies that bought saddles with stirrup leathers that were turned and wrapped with rawhide. Always thought that was neat, but I quit riding horses with my own saddle for a paycheck a long time ago, and my willingness to spend $$ in that regard as gone too when I have an old standby that does more than well enough. So I just keep a stick stuck in there to keep things turned.

As you well know grabbing that offside stirrup can be kinda critical lol.

I'm told there was a man in Sac City Iowa that repaired, and even would make a saddle. He'd cut down a burr oak tree for the saddle tree.

Our local hardware store hand a man that just did repairs on harness, combine, and windrower canvases.

Those days are long gone.

almond joy got real milrlk chocolate coconut and munchy nuts too

Ha! On the topic of saddles, and tack. I was on our gliding rounding up cows when the off billet broke. That's the opposite side from the chich. If you horse back riding is exciting, try horse billet "riding!"

Pays to check the condition of your tack before throwing a leg over.

That is a right professional job, probably not very many saddle repair shops around anyway. I was surprised we still have a boot repair shop in town, I guess he makes holsters also.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, they do sheaths too. And a damn good job of it. Buddy uses them, has had a couple made for knives I made him.

I like Jim stitched and riveted it. I don't know that I've seen many that way. Usually just rivets.

That's professional looking work for sure.

Nice looking work.

Lots of tack shops around here.

I grabbed the leathers and give em a big twist.

They stayed that way.

It took a long time.....the work is a bit shoddy.....but at least I dont charge anything!

Give her a double your money guarantee Jim.

Ha!

That skirting leather was kind of expensive.....but if I charged for it I am sure I wouldn't enjoy it as much.

That’s gotta be the wrong way to do it. That’s how I do it!

Ole Mike only knows two things about ducks.....and they are both wrong.

I wuz gonna tell you that you do nice work. Now I won’t.

If I did nice work....I would charge for it!

Anyway....you cant fool me. Thanks!

😎

And a MFWD John Deere!

Hahaha!

Good job on the repair and thanks for helping the young lady.

That does look like nice work cuzzin'....


Last time I rode went to unsaddle and the fricken latigo was broke....

I loop it through twice so all that was holding was basically friction and the double loop if that makes sense.

It was slightly unnerving.....


And of course I knew the leather was getting bad but you know how it goes.....


Ordered up a new latigo, off-side billet and rear billets and cinch.

Nice. Very nice.

That's the huge benefit to doing that as opposed to using the tongue and holes.

I hate holes in a latigo.

Dont know why people dont just use the "knot".

jcon got skill

"How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

Big thumbs up Jim. I love seeing a messy work area too. I like clean ones, but messy ones mean a person's been busy.

And while saddles are great for little girls................





I prefer grown ladies that go bareback.

Agree, I always remove the prong from all of my front cinches. But as far as the knot, I use and have taught my kids to use a half knot under the rear of the D ring.

Less bulk under my leg and you can pull the latigo with one sharp jerk.

Only been two time in my life when I really had to pull a saddle quickly in an emergency situation. But I appreciate the smaller knot located to the rear of the D ring every time I sit on the saddle.

E E easy there big fella!

The knot is the safer way to go, but as long as you pay attention to your gear and replace the latigo when it gets stretched or cracked no harm using the buckle. Most of the time I do it myself. But I use the rear cinch too........

Cinch the back tight?

Big fan of Almond Joys and big burly guys that help kids in need through a rough patch.

Kudos, Jim Conrad.

You do nice work.

Nice work big guy

Not as tight as the front, but definitely in contact with the belly. The wider the rear cinch, the tighter it can be. Make sure it’s attached to the front so it doesn’t slide into buck country.

I use the buckle on my roller cinch. Still plenty of friction.

They are saying now that your front and back cinches should be 50/50.


I told that to dad and he near fell out of his chair.

+1

Only on the pack saddles. grin

Who is saying that?

Various western saddle and horsie types.

I think there is good theory behind it.

The old hands of generations past knew how to saddle a horse properly.

I reckon they'd done it a time or two.

But I never heard of any of them tightening a back cinch like the front...

Jim, it sounds to me like a good way to restrict the horse's breathing.

I have to wonder if the same folks promoting two tight girth are bright enough to loosen a cinch when they water the animal and retighten after the horse is done drinking?

A lot of smart folks have been harnessing and saddling horses for at least a couple thousand years. Most of them only used one girth strap. I don't really understand why it would take two tight straps, all of a sudden to keep a saddle in place.

Perhaps if one is riding a whitherless wonder, or a horse which is so obese that it's back is round. The first is cured by a proper culling program, the latter by lots of riding.

All the Saddle talk, there was what my father called a Calvary saddle in an old shed here years back. It rotted away with the rest of the shed.

I guess it aint quite as tight.


Well, both cinches are snug, rather than the front cinch being tight. Supposedly to spread the load on the horse's back.

Agreed.

Lots of the old saddles didn't even have a back cinch. Nor a back cinch ring.


I've seen a few idiots and back cinch problems though....

If you get it too tight, I've seen a horse act like he was "flanked" out of the bucking chute..

If you get it too loose, and it's hanging below the horses' belly, in some instances, they can get a rear hoof through it for a massive wreck...

My experience is that you should be able to get your hand between the back cinch, and the horse's belly with just feeling both touch your hand.


Fat or witherless horses? Or a mule? Get a crupper.

You have any idea how much it would cost to feed him?

For sure.

Got a link or source for that Jim? New to me, and I’d like to read that.

Intuitively, I’d disagree.
One can safely and effectively saddle a horse with only the front cinch, but not with rear cinch alone. So I disagree with the 50/50. My understanding of the rear cinch’s purp ose is to keep the cantle from tipping up when something (bovine, tree, etc.) is dallied to the horn.

There have been times we’ve used double pack girths with 4 latigo (not billets). That’s snug and secure for a heavy saddle with the equipment we have attached.

i grew up being told to keep a back girth loose but after i started training young ones i began to wonder. some time in the 80's a clinician said that you should tighten the girth tight the first time you saddled up. if you use a back girth, tighten it also. i have tightened both ever since.

you dont always get to choose the horse you will be breaking. his build is what it is and you may not know what his job will be later on.

i think i have half a dozen saddles around here [ some pretty busted up] in an effort to fit as many as possible. most people have a saddle and it has to work..
if you are ever going to take that horse where he may have to do double duty as a rider and a packer it is a wise thing to have him used to a tight rear girth.

now i just tighten both cinches every time i ride. the animal is always used to it and the saddle stays put much better. it works for me.

We shouldn't be using stirrups either.

Horses were ridden for centuries and centuries without lol.

You might find that you like reservation tipi living.....

Well, that takes horses out of the equation completely then if we're being authentic.

I've found stirrups pretty useful.

Back cinches... not so much.

FWIW, my current saddle has a back cinch, and I use it. I just don't tighten it to match the front cinch.

You know full well that all indians ride big bays or sorrells.

Sure can't blame them for not wanting to ride an appaloosa...

I would not hold them accountable for it.

Rumor is thats why they were always grouchy.

We had an appaloosa on the place for a couple months....

I packed for outfitters for many years, and while I am not an expert horseman, I consider myself a better than average one. Running pack strings in the high country can make or brake a person and paying attention to those with experience and paying attention to your stock goes a long way. Early in the season the horsies were a wee bit fat. That soon changed and my belly cinch would be tightened accordingly. I never tightened the belly cinch as tight as the front, especially on my ride as they needed breathing room. The rear cinch on my pack horses depended on the load, the horse and the geography......one only does a rodeo once in the middle of the night if one can help it. I always kept a white horse at the back of my pack string at night.........it saved my ass when the moon was black!

I always thought only ropers snugged up the rear cinch. And I am NOT a roper.

Keep mine fairly loose, way looser than the front.



Speaking of horses, we've been wheelin' and dealin' with a guy over the phone.

Earlier this summer they hauled a couple up here. One worked out, one didn't.

Guy called me this morning and said he had a replacement to swap out and another good one if we were interested.


These animals are not cheap...and we aren't even buying 'fancy' stock....

My personal embarrassment is my best favoritest horse is half assaloosa!

What is wrong we th e appoloosas?

You guys didn’t use double pack girths?

Tell me about it.

Shot another last week. Old broodmare that had a good long life.

Got my gelding a baby for X. Turns out he's gonna be pretty badass. Chick we bought him from had a couple more buns in the oven. Called her up to maybe get another, now price is 2X. For something that hasn't been touched, trimmed, wormed, vaccinated, etc. Wife was more polite than I would've been. These aren't papered critters either.

I honestly don't get it. There's a piece to the puzzle I'm not seeing, because I really don't know why the prices have gotten to where they are.

The pics you’ve posted tell me a rear cinch is not needed. Come here and you’ll want both and breast collar.

Sometimes that’s not enough.

Ugly

And tend to be mean.

And they're ugly.

And dumb and generally more uncooperative than a good horse.

Not to mention ugly. 😎

Ya done good Jim, I’m always impressed by people who can fix stuff 😎

Good feet though!

I was over in Wolfpoint today. No tipi creeping.

I use a breast collar.

Lots of gathering of our ranch in NM were in steep mountains. Day in, and day out. For about 6 weeks twice a year.

Just because I've posted pics from a rodeo arena doesn't mean I've never ridden a horse in mountainous terrain, or know what a back cinch, and breast collar are used for.

May have come in handy when I was team roping in my younger years too. But I still didn't torque down that back cinch.

As you can see, my saddle wears one..

Hate to hear about the old mare but that's just the way it goes I guess.



As for the big $$$ I don't get it either.


But then again you horse people are nuts.....grin

Negative, and our webbing was nylon, real easy to get those too tight......

Have this saddle shop in kingsville, they do a lot more than saddles now a days. https://www.krsaddleshop.com/

This weekend da Point was a fricken zoo.


Musta been an influx of covid cash and some crazy meth.

I guess my post was not clear enough today avoid a misunderstanding. I’m aware of a bit of your background, and aware that you have a clue.

Also was not specifically directed at you or how you do things. The pics I referred to are your shredding pics - looks pretty flat.


Some folks I see have the rear cinch So loose as mentioned above, a horse could get a hind stick in it. They ought not to even bother buckling it. To me it’s a tool to use.

I posted above I set the rear “in contact” w the belly. I can get my hand in there though. Saddle won’t tip.

Again, bud, apologies if I was not clear.

Snake headed proud cut snake headed bastards....

Are we still talking about ponies?

I'm in the same camp as you, if it's not at least making contact then take the damned thing off. But you can really restrict breathing et all with it too tight.

Almost as if there's more to it than you can get from pictures or movies

Read about them 4-horned saddles the Romans used, but have never seen one. Would like to one day.

The idea is the load is spread out across the bars.

Front cinch is looser than normal.

I cant find an article.....seems like it was a saddle maker.

I grew up riding a center-fire Heiser (about a 1938 model) in some damn rough country - I'm larger, and older, now, and prefer more security.
I ride a 2004 model custom, flank cinch, and breast collar. I weigh ~ 200 lbs, ride rough country, and occasionally need to "capture" a wayward critter.
It works for me - although I'm sure the caballo doesn't appreciate the extra weight!

Regarding stirrups - I once had one lose the bolt that secured it - and rode the best part of a rough trail, up a rimrock, for close to a mile - with said stirrup in my hand (wouldn't stay on the saddle horn)
FUN !!!!

Mark, invert the '38 and you'd have the year of my Martin saddle.
(bought second hand, plate rigging, nothing fancy, has someone else's brand on it......)

But I love it.

1983 model locally made by Gene Martin.

He used to run a saddlery here in town. 30 years ago we used to go downstairs and bug him while he was busy building another saddle(from scratch).

He didn't make his own trees but had a 'patented' version that he'd order in.

Good saddles.

They also raised quarter horses(good ones) and I learned how to break/train horses from Gene and Loretta's son Alan.

I rigged up some, "Iowa Stirrups", for five buckle overshoes. Iron JD planter plates.

Please tell us you were more than 5 years old breaking stock to feed the fam.

lol


I'd go visit Gene with my dad. Early '90's, I was 10-15 years old.


Gene, was a character.

The entire shop was a character, they sold 'western wear' and had a mostly full time cobbler employed.


Willie fixed boots and kept a bottle of whiskey under his work bench.


Loretta ran the cash register.


They closed up years ago, town has been on a downward slide since.

7-8 years ago, morning after a big thunderstorm.

Woman was watching a movie called Zombieland, thought I heard something.

I dont remember a saddle shop in Chinook.


We had a tannery though. That place was cool.



No Martin saddles here. Got a Miles City Furstnow saddle.

This really caught my attention. I have two Furstnow saddles made in Miles City, Montana. They came though the store when I still had it and I snagged them for myself. Interesting history you can read about on the internet.
Jim, you don't give yourself enough credit. You did a fine job on that girl's saddle. You had to go with what you had to work with and took the initiative to make it stronger.
Not to boast, but I have three handmade saddles and there is a story behind each of them. All of them are double rigged and I always use a back cinch. Usually pull it up snug but not tight unless I know I am going to have to rope or pull something. As others have said, it needs to be snug enough that something doesn't get between the cinch and the horse's belly. Also helps keep the back of the saddle down in rough country.
I have had the honor to know several very accomplished saddlemaker and the opportunity to meet several others. Most of them have passed over. One is a good friend and still alive. It is not really a lost art but not very profitable and pretty specialized. I think most custom saddle makers now start between $3,000 and $4,000 and there is a six month to one year waiting list.
Back in the day a lot of Indians rode appaloosas and in fact the tribal leaders encouraged it. When they got where they were going they were ready to fight anything.

Heck I always thought they were pretty I also like the Indian paint like Little Joe on Bonanza rode.

I will have pictures up today Gruff.
Thanks for being patient.

Closer to the "I'm done beer".......