Well folks, I have it narrowed down to one of the two, probably a 2016 or 2017 is affordable for me. The cummins is reportedly a much better diesel than the duramax, some claim problems with the duramax at 200,000 miles while almost everyone agrees the cummins is a 500,000 mile motor. On the other hand the Ram trucks are said to beset with electrical problems and have more transmission problems? I have always liked Chevy trucks but finding that Isuzu builds the duramax makes me gravitate to the cummins. Anyone have a high mileage 16 or 17 or there about's year model Ram or Chevy 2500 or 3500 they can share their experience with? I like the gas trucks but I think if your planning on being on the road for extended periods the diesel makes more sense and will last longer. I like the new 20202 chevy 10 speed transmission but they are priced out of my range. I am leaning to a crew cab long bed single non-dually 3500 for a once and done solution. Going Mobile for a while.

I always like Chevy products, but I have a 2004 Dodge Diesel that has 200,000 miles. I’ve had the front end rebuilt and two water pumps. I bought another Dodge diesel in 2018. It has 14,000 on it now, no problem with it either. I wouldn’t have anything else.

Small sample size. I know 3 individuals who are pipeline welders. Put north of 100 miles per day, every day, on diesel 3500 series welding rigs tipping the scales at about 12,000 GVW. One Dodge has had zero issues over the past several years. One Dodge had an injector pump puke and was "making oil". Took some "negotiating", but dealer finally stood behind it. One Duramax has blown two motors in same time period...

Personally, I am on my 4th Dodge diesel in past 20 years (2005 W2500) with 200.000 miles. Only issue I have had is to rebuild the front end a couple times.

Friends do not let friends buy a duramax.

DON'T DO IT!

That’s funny!

I have driven both for 100K miles. I have both in my company fleet. The Dodge w Cummins is far better. Overall the Dodge trucks have really upped their game in last few years.

Just talked to a friend the other day from Texas. His Ram was acting up, like the turbo went out. He wasn’t sure if it was electrical or not.

If you can delete what ever you get, that’s the ticket.

I run a Ford 550. I have put 40k on in a year. No problems. Great work truck and I am not a ford fan at all.

I like my duramax. They all.have potential issues but both are excellent engines. Isuzu doesn't build the duramax engine. General Motors and Isuzu went in together(joint venture)and built a plant to exclusively build the Duramax engine. They are all made at that one American plant. I like the Cummins engine but absolutely do not like Dodge trucks. To each there own.

Ford Chassis, Rams diesel,Chevy transmission and ride.

If you get a Duramax get the 17, I think 16 was the last year of the CP4 pump

Since the UAW has continued their line of stupidity and endorsed and voted for Biden The Fraudulent. I will only be purchasing foreign made vehicles. Hopefully Ram sends their production back overseas....that no good Trump talked them into bringing it back to MI, and they showed him!! They voted for the Outsource King....so if that's what they want, that's what they will get.

I may concede to a vehicle made in a Red state, but I'm done with Detroit for good. The sooner all the jobs leave MI the better, IMO. Let the muslims have it, the former UAW workers can raise and butcher goats for them.

Anyone that considers a GM vehicle after what Obama did, during his first term, needs their head examined...

This is a bit older than what the OP's talking about but I have an '08 Dodge diesel and my partner has an '07. The Turbo went out in his. The mechanic told him to drive with the exhaust brake turned on all the time. I don't know how it all works but apparently the brake somehow keeps the crud blown out of the turbo. Both of these have the DPF but are pre-DEF.

That’s why I bought a tundra

that is great that some diesels can go 500K that is if the frame dont rot out before that

Toyota makes a very good 1/2 ton but they don't make a 3/4 or 1 ton and they don't make a diesel. A Tundra can't do what the OP needs done.

Ford 7.3l Powerstroke for the win !!!

I am pretty sure they make one ton trucks. other countries get them but not in the US

Y'all need to catch up with the global economy...

> Dodge 2500's and 3500's "Heche en Mexico" with 70% U.S. content.
> Toyota Tundra's are manufactured in San Antonio Texas, with 75% U.S. content.

So, which one is "foreign made"? And, which one is "Made in the U.S.A."?

My 2006 Ram 3500 just turned 285,000 miles and runs like a champ. No problems with the Cummins at all.

I would look for a 2018 or newer RAM 6.4L Hemi. That is the the first year for the 8 speed auto trans. I have a 2017 6.4L, 6 speed with 4:10 axles and it get 1 mpg less than the Diesels. Diesel is great if you need it. I don't purchase for the 1% use.

What kind of MPG can be expected from a 4x4 Ram 6.4L with the 8 speed? Just curious, as I was next to one on the road this morning and it was a good looking rig.

Toyota manufactures and sells diesel passenger vehicles in almost every auto market in the world where they do business, except the U.S. No clue why they choose not to sell diesel passenger vehicles, here. However, they do manufacture 3, 4, 5, and 6 cylinder diesels for marine and medium/heavy duty truck use around the world. Hino is the Toyota truck brand currently marketed and sold in the U.S.

It would be a seemingly simple design exercise for Toyota engineers to adapt one of their existing diesel motors to the Tundra platform and totally kick butt in the U.S. light truck market. Unfortunately, not their "cup-o-tea"...

Both are good, gm seems to have more issues with the 2011-2016 cp4 injection pumps. Same as the cp4 on Ford 6.7.

I have a 2018 ram 6.7, it a towing beast .

I was always a Dodge fan, but I don't know about these 5000,000 mile rams. My 98 engine tanked at 150,000. Head gasket blowed. Required full valve job, head shaved, complete engine flush radiator,hoses heater core. ($7Krepair job) Before that I put 3 injector pumps in,two lift pumps, then a FASS system. Clutch ,pressure plate, two turbos reworked. I probably put $12K in repairs in that truck. After the engine job,I sold it and then it lost 5thgear I heard.

When I was looking for another truck, I found Dodge shortened their short box to 6'-3' instead of 6-'6'.I did not want an 8ft bed.Looking around, the Duramax had better ride and more capacity. Dealers were a heck of a lot better too.

I bought the Duramax but with an extended warranty. Before the Dodge, I had a Ford that was piece o fcrap.I would not touch another one. We will see how this Duramax works out.

Probably because of the EPA and their emissions requirements. Toyota doesn't want to spend the huge money required to make them legal.

I vote Cummins, but don’t know schit. I’ve never really messed with diesels.

The new Dodges seem nice but I’ve been in/around too many that were POS to get the taste out of my mouth.



It’d be fun to put an old 12v together and mount it in a k20 square body with a 5 speed! Single cab, long bed.

Time and money.....

I have owned a Ford and Ram diesel, and currently own a GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax, 2016. No complaints whatsoever- great engine, but also the rest of the truck is very well-built, quiet, and comfortable. If I were in the market for another one, it would almost certainly be another GM Duramax.

If you adjust the valves periodically on the Cummins, they have been known to get a million miles on them highway. pulling horses and heavy loads.

Jimmyp: I wish you the best of luck in your choice. I am NOT much of a motor-head myself but I was a dedicated Ford truck-man throughout the late 60', 70's and 80's. Owning several V-8 Ford F-250 4x4's over that time.
Then in 1996 I bought a Dodge Cummins diesel 4x4 with extended cab and manual transmission. Reliability wise (and M.P.G. wise!) it has been the BEST truck I have ever owned. Not one thing has gone wrong with the engine and the driveline in the intervening 24+ years and 140,000 Hunter and fisherman type miles!
Plus my rig gets 21 to 22 M.P.G. on the road.
I have several friends that have MONSTER numbers of miles on their Dodge Cummins diesels (one has 370,000 HARD miles on his!).
I can not compare the two rigs you are interested in but I have sure been happy with my Dodge Cummins diesel rig (the VarmintMobile).
Again good luck.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The newer ones with the 6.7 won't get 20+ mpg because of the emission crap. Also, the manual tranny is gone. There are no American trucks from the 1 ton on down with manuals. The last one was the Dodge 3500 a couple years ago.

I don't know about the last 3 or 4 years, but Dodge has had a problem with the steering parts wearing and causing what they call a death wobble, what we used to call a shimmy. The OEM steering parts and front hubs might need replacing after about 100k. If you can turn wrench at all, it's all fairly simple to DIY, then have an alignment. If it's the ball joints, that's another issue.

Take a long road trip on the interstate and observe the % of Rams vs Ford/Chevy that are “working trucks” for “Hot Shot” drivers, those towing new RVs to their destination, ect. The vast majority are Ram Cummins. The folks that use their trucks to make a living are using the Cummins! memtb

I just bought a 2019 leftover Ram, 2500, with the turbo diesel.

Right at 6800 miles, probably not broken in yet, but I'm getting 19 back and forth to work and almost 22 on the highway

No comparison between the newer rams and the Chevy interior.

Know several with Rams, All love them

That is highway driving.

In the South Texas ranch country, where the ranch roads are rough, hot, and dusty, there are no Dodges, all Ford or Chevy, unless it is a work crew from out of state.

Dodges have front end, transmission, and electrical problems. Put them off pavement and the Dodges rattle themselves apart.

My kid is a mechanic. He told me that Ford really got their stuff together on their new diesel. He thinks it is superior to the other two. The bodies are for sure stronger.

I had a conversation with my Toyota dealer about the diesel thing. Toyota did the study and determined that the market was already saturated and for the expense to re-do the Tundra factory, it was not worth it to them. They relinquished that market to the so-called "domestics".

My father was a long time engineer at GM, and used to drive only GM vehicles until Zero screwed the GM investors and basically gave ownership to the Union workers. After that travesty he never bought another GM vehicle, only Chrysler’s or Fords.

Maybe 10 years ago, Toyota decided to market to suburbia. No 3/4's, no diesels. Just good quality heavy duty 1/2's. It's surprising, though, that they didn't go after the huge RV'er market that requires a 3/4 or larger.

Keep in mind that if the Dems get in, gas is going to $5 a gallon, with diesel $2 more than that.

I'm in a similar situation right now. I have an '06 Dodge/Cummins at 173k miles - it's been a good truck but I feel like I've had to do more repairs than what I hear most others report. Until last year, repairs were pretty minor and usually a once a year event to the tune of +/- $1k. Last fall, I had to replace injectors along with several other things and was in the $4-5k range for repairs. This fall, it's been in and out of the shop with one thing after another and I haven't been able to get out hunting due to not having reliable transportation. I'm looking at another $4-5k in repairs this fall by the time I'm done. The engine is awesome, but I feel like the rest of the truck is starting to fall apart.

I'm currently in the process of buying a '16 Duramax short box crew cab. My Dodge is a long box quad cab and I prefer the long box over a short box, but I don't want the length of a long box crew cab. I'm willing to trade some bed length for the crew cab and do prefer GM's short box to the other makes. I have been researching the whole CP4 fuel pump debacle and will likely do a fuel pump upgrade for piece of mind.

It's certainly a good time to sell. The used truck market is stupid right now.

I had a '96 Dodge Cummins with the 12V 5.9L. Engine was great,
but everything else fell apart around it. I'm too gun shy to buy another Dodge.

200K on my 99 Cummins 4x4 with the 5 speed. Did upgrade the fuel system (push instead of pull), adjust the valves, nd rebuild the front end. No problems for the last few years.

I wouldn't buy another diesel. The government is doing everything they can with emissions equipment/ DEF fluid to kill them off...If you do buy one, you better use the crap out of it...Put a ton of miles on it weekly at highway speeds to burn out all the garbage/ soot the emissions systems are blowing back into the engine

Or, relocate to a state that doesn’t “police” your vehicles! memtb

Just saw a 95 F350 with over 200k miles listed at $21k!

Mine has been DPF deleted. Idaho only has inspections in a couple counties and I'm not in one of them. One of these times I'll delete the EGR, when I have some spare cash for the controller.

I just bought a 95 F350 7.3 5 speed centurion dually with 126k for 13k
.Fantastic condition, He wanted 15K, I got lucky, prices are crazy for the pre-def trucks.

Toyota for the win....

except that that's a Ford. Too bad that Toyota decided to not make bigger trucks.

Good lookin' out RC. You caught him.
Sneaky Sam trying to pull a fast one.

You think there will be a state like that in the US much longer? The Government already shut down the best diesel tune company's in the US like Green Diesel Engineering and made them make their tunes emissions compliant. You pretty much have to go through Canada now to get a decent illegal tune that shuts off the emissions crap and could void your warranty if dealers choose to pursue it....Although I love my diesel, it's just not worth it to me because the regulation is only going to get worse...

You are basically rolling the dice buying one and putting a tune in it or turning off the EGR. You are gambling you can pass emissions and that a dealer wont void your warranty when something major happens mechanically. In some places in Canada they already have checkpoints on the Highways where they routinely check emissions on diesels and will tow your truck if it fails?....How long before the nanny Democrat run states here start doing that?

That's why I haven't updated my SCT tuner; the new updates take away the ability to turn off emissions-related CELs.

We've had both, and prefer the Cummins. Had a few more problems with the Duramax set-up.
That said, I've had better experience with the GM cab and chassis.
The ONLY problem with the Cummins is - they wrap it up in a cheap box !

"I have a 2004 Dodge Diesel that has 200,000 miles."

I bought a new 2005 Dodge with the Cummins engines and the NV5600 6 speed in late Dec. 2005. I wanted the NV5600 6 speed because Dodge was going to the Mercedes 6 speed in 2005. I had to search a lot of dealer inventories before I found a new Dodge with the NV5600 in Hudson, Wisconsin. I flew up there and drove it home to Texas. I love this truck but I wish I would have searched for low mileage 2004 instead. The 2004 didn't have a catalytic convertor and had less electronics.

I have 3 ram trucks. 2014 6.4 liter 2500 gas burner, 2016 Cummins 3500, and 2018 Cummins 3500. All single rear wheel. Wife drives gas burner, son drives 2016 diesel and I drive 2018 diesel. Diesel way better mileage than gas burner. Diesels get 17 to 18 . Gas burner gets 10 to 12. Use these on my cattle farm. Pull great. Pulled about 19000 pounds of hay yesterday with my diesel . The gas burner pulls decent but ,of course, nothing like diesels. I was always gm or ford until 2014 . Now I am sold. Best trucks I have ever had. Go with diesel if possible. My diesels are work truck packaged but have everything you need (tradesman packages).

Dogdoc

if you go chevy gas before 2020 you buy the 6.0 which is not as strong an engine as the ram hemi. So gas your stuck going ram in a 17 or 18 year model. The reason for wanting a diesel is the torque/HP at lower RPMs. How is a truck motor turning 4000 rpms to pull a big hill with a trailer going to last very long, maybe 200K and done? I get the government is trying to kill diesel but I don't know why they are, but the gas motor just has to turn faster and burn out sooner than a diesel. I am leaning to the diesel for longevity.

You could drop a new crate gas motor in a truck for less than one fuel pump failure costs in a diesel.

I have an 18 ram 6.7 and went with the aisin transmission. Only 30k on it so far, about 10k pulling 15k 5th wheel. I've had zero problems. If you see one with the aisin, take a look, the hd transmission is a great addition to the power of the cummins.

To me it was between ford and ram simply over philosophical issues with GM.

Does anyone know what the RPM difference is between the gasoline and diesel engines when towing an equal load?

Yes , diesel 1800rpm.... gas 4500 rpm

Damn. 4500 RPMs for an extended period of time would get old.

Simple look at the torque curve , the Cummins peaks at 1800 rpm and most gas engines peak around 4500 rpm. I have hd trucks with both and this is true.
I will say me Chevy 6.0 at 4500 sounds pretty sweet

I had a 16 5.7 ram gas, pulling 10k the gas engine ran at 3k-5k and got 5-6 mpg. Same trailer the 6.7 diesel gets 10-11 mpg and 1800 rpm. The gas truck had 4.10 gears, The diesel is around 3.21?

I originally bought the gas to haul my 4K slide in camper, and SxS, but changed to toy hauler. 10k in the mountains really works the gas engine.

You have to drive a gas engine when towing especially in the mountains, down shift before the grade etc.... the diesel just loafs along.
Don't dismiss the diesels engine brake, that is damn near worth the price of admission itself. Think of ot as cruise control down hill, brakes last forever

Another thing ,all these guys braggin the older Cummins haven't spent time behind the new ones. No comparison.
I drove a 2000 Dodge Cummins on an average of 200 miles a day 5 days a week towing 15,000lbs and while it did it fine I had to drive it, i.e. downshift before the grade etc;;;; an older Cummins at redline sounds like it is coming unglued any minute. By contrast my Chevy 6.0 purrs at 4500 rpm.
The new Cummins idles over the steepest mountains, too easy and must say relaxing

The way the EPA is cracking down on vendors of delete and tuner kits, some dealers now won't even touch a deleted truck. It's not worth it anymore to them.

Tow/haul really is nice for going down hills.


I love the deleted 6.7 F350 combo. Drug a 20' horse trailer around for about 2k miles in the last couple weeks and never wished it was a gas.

Buying used I'd look for a townie trade in and delete asap.


Should add we're in rural MT, no checkpoints in the foreseeable future.

I don't think I have spent over 12 minutes at 4500 rpms in my 6.8 Ford V10. You don't live at 4500 rpm and my truck never sees 3000 if I'm not towing. Currently have 210k on the clock.

The 4500rpm is pulling over a mountain pass.You can top most passes in 15 to 20 minutes. I have run my Chevy at 3000 rpm all day towing into a strong headwind.
The Chevy 6.0 will last a long time at hi rpm, appears the Dodge hemi will also. Not familiar with the Ford V10

2003 Ram 3500 with cabover camper here. Purchased used 2005, with 35K on it. Manual. Just turned 105K. During the 8 years we were in the Bush, it didn't get driven much, so that may have contributed to having to replace the injectors and sleeves at about 90K.

Other repairs over the years: ball joints up front, water pump, clutch, couple u-joints replacements , front hubs replacement, tie rod ends, power steering pump. Not sure about brakes- probably. No tranny problems yet.

Don't know if one can count the fuel pump. Wife put gas in it, so we had to have the tank and lines purged. Mechanic claimed the factory pumps had problems and recommended an aftermarket replkacement as long as they were in there, which we did. IIRC, the factory was in-tank, the aftermarket is exterior.

I probably won't buy another Ram, or a diesel, tho I sure like the way it drives and the power of the Cummins..... Ford gets our vote.
t
Unless it's a deal I can't refuse, like the Ram was. Not sure it was that good a deal, tho it seemed like a good idea at the time.

WHERE

I was always a gm guy and swore I'd never own a ram. But I don't like the new body style gm half tons. So, i did the unthinkable and bought a new body style ram half ton last year. Its the 5.7 hemi with the 8 speed. I always hated Mopar transmissions but I really like this 8 speed. I miss the extra front leg room my 2016 Chevy had but other than that I really like the ram.

My dad always runs a duramax but never keeps them long enough to see how they do long term. He gets a new one about every other year. I've thought about getting a camp trailer and the one I want is 28 ft. I could pull it with a half ton but I may end up finally going 3/4 ton if I get the camper.

I've been wondering lately which diesel is best but wit the new big block gas engine Ford has and Chevy's new 6.6 gaser i may just go with a gas 3/4 ton. The only thing I'd be towing is the camper every other weekend or so in the summer. I'm going to actually look at a Ford super duty with the big gas motor. I like the fact it has a 10 speed. The Chevy 6.6 has only has a 6 speed.

Bb

That new Ford 7.3 gasser looks really good

The GM 6.0 for sure likes to rev. It’s a screamer pulling hills headed west through Wyoming and Montana.

I also have a Ford v10 I tow with and it makes power considerably lower than the GM. Ford is trying the same with the new gasser 7.3.

Regardless, for heavy hauling, neither is a diesel. The cost of admission keeps me from being a player. Those things have gotten SPENDY!

2005 3500 Ram Cummings diesel. 400,000 miles. Replaced injectors at about 300,000. Rebuilt transmission last year to
better specs than original.

I drive a duramax, 2006 ! 150,000 miles. Changed all fluids at 100k. I only pull a camp trailer and boat. Max weight of 7800 or so. No complaints so far! I had two and sold the higher mileage one earlier this year. I dont chip and such! The last Dodge i owned ran good, but had the worst body of any pickup I owned in over fifty years of driving pickups! I'm not sure I could bring myself to buy another!

and that is the problem, if your pulling up a good grade, my GMC 1500 5.3 V8 is down to second gear and 4000 rpm at what seems to be 35 MPH with a 7600 pound trailer. It makes you gun shy of gas trucks when the local Pepsi distributor truck passes you like your sitting still while haulin a full load of Pespi's while your sitting on 4000 RPM's going up good hill in the Smokey Mtns. In camping at variousRV parks you find there are an awful lot of Ram, Ford, and GM diesels 2500's pulling 13-15,000 pound 5th wheels.

Don't judge all gas trucks like your GMC. My 6.4L Hemi RAM isn't like that at all. I'm pulling a 10,000lb RV and the engine purrs at 2500rpm all day.

We have a recently deleted F550 here at work, OMG does that make a difference.

BS, you won't get within 5 mpg of my deleted 2013 Ram 3500 4x4 with 300k on the odometer. My advice is, don't buy a newer diesel truck unless your prepared to trade before the warranty is up, or you completely delete the emission BS. IMO, the best diesel trucks ever made are the Ford 2005 - 2007 once you delete and bullet proof them.

I never compared my vehicle to an illegal deleted diesel. Learn to read for comprehension.

I guess that was the problem with my 2014 Ram 3500..



Dealer couldn't fix it. It was in the shop more than out in the last 6 months I owned it. All emissions related problems. EGR, turbo, etc., etc.

It only had 30k miles on it when I threw in the towel and bought by F350.

It's nice.


We already had a DRW deleted F350 bale bed and I wanted to get SRW 7.3 for a mud/snow feed pickup. But then Corona rolled in and I got spooked about spending $60k.

Found a creampuff used 6.7 for $19k, 150k miles but drives like new. No brainer on that deal.

Look how many years before they put a full-size pickup on the US market. They sure don’t seem to rush into anything

I have an '08 Dodge Cummins with a manual tranny and 3.73 gears. At 60 mph in high gear, it's right at 2000 rpm. With an equal load that's probably not much different than a gas engine. With an equal HEAVY load, the gasser might be down a gear or two.

Lol, I don’t know anyone that has a diesel with emission controls that is not illegally deleted, crazy but true.My buddy just bought a 2020 F350, after 3000 miles he took all the [bleep] off of it,it’s a monster!I have five diesel trucks 7.3 6.0 5.9, Everyone has a tune,all emissions deleted where applicable :-)

The 2013 and on Rams that use DPF and SCR systems don't benefit as much fuel mileage wise from deleting, unlike the earlier, up to 2012 trucks.. Fuel mileage is almost identical unless the truck is in regen mode. The real benefit is that there is no EGR to contaminate the oil, and no reliability issues dues to crappy emission control systems. So yeah, I call BS on that one too.

The dealer I bought my truck from just offered me more that I paid for it. I've been driving it for 3 years. I'm currently running the numbers on a 21 6.4 in the same configuration. I get tier I supplier price to sweeten the deal a little. I couldn't do this with any deletes on the vehicle.

The real benfit in deleting a newer diesel truck is that you won't be broke down or in limp mode because of the emissions related BS. Never said what mpg I achieved before or after deleting my truck. But I will say that I'm willing to wager whatever amount you feel comfortable that none of the newer 3/4 or one ton gas trucks will get within 1 mpg of my my 2013 Ram 3500 4x4 diesel. And I honestly don't believe any 3/4 or one ton 4x4 gas truck will get within 5 mpg of my truck, but I'm not willing to back that up.

You guys are talking me into a gas truck with all the emissions Bull-s-hit on diesels now.

My 2008 Ford was vandalized. Someone put a bunch of gasoline in the fuel tank and messed up the engine. Luckily, insurance covered it. Here is a picture of it being towed home with the replacement truck, a 2019 Ram 3500 with the HO 6.7 Cummins.



The Ram is the best towing pickup I ever had. It tows that gooseneck with a Deere 5075e around like it is nothing. It rarely gets driven without a trailer, but when it does, I have been getting around 18.5 around town. I never bought Dodge before because their transmissions and brakes were crap. This one has the Aisin 6-speed and they massively upgraded the brakes. So far so good. I did extend the bumper to bumper warranty to 100K miles just in case.

One of my Kenworth's just ate a camshaft and needs an engine re-build. 2020 is shaping up to be a very, very crappy year.