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Ok so with everything happening I’m seriously considering a whole home generator for backup power needs
What fuel source do you guys recommend?
I have natural gas on site
Do I go natural propane or diesel?
Pros or cons
If I sell and move could take this but new home sight would only be propane or diesel
Could sell with the home
Also looking at a small solar off grid recharging station. Something to keep all my cordless batteries recgarhded and my trolling motors
What are some affordable options there
Since you have natural gas that is definitely the way to go. If you move & take it with you it can easily be converted to run on propane.
Western Mountaineering clothes for the whole family smile
I'm a fan of diesel, but if you have natural gas on-site, why not use it? Of course, gas supplied can go down to.
That’s what I’m afraid of but if natural shuts down where would diesel supply be
Originally Posted by IA_fog
That’s what I’m afraid of but if natural shuts down where would diesel supply be


Well, at some point, all are vulnerable. But if you have solar with generator back up, depending on how often your generator runs to charge the bank, 100 gallons of diesel might last you a year or more (depending). Hypothetically, if you had a 7kw diesel gen-set drinking 1/3 gallon per hour and you ran it for 4 hours every 4 days to charge the battery bank (which you would probably only need to do from time to time in winter, depending on your solar array and power demands) you would consume 121 gallons of diesel annually. Not sure how secure the nat gas grid is. I know they have to pump and boost in the pipeline, but they have gas-powered pumping stations for that, but with diesel you are totally stand alone. Another option would be a propane tank to fuel the generator.

there is no cheap solar , that Uses battery's
Propane

Nat gas is grid dependent, outages, repairs, backhoe joe diggin into 3 miles up the road. Etc


If youre sitting on a 500 gallon tank of propane, youre set for a while.
An old army surplus diesel generator is hard to beat besides the noise. Dual or tri fuel they can also run off motor, vegetable and hydraulic oils.
Originally Posted by slumlord
Propane

Nat gas is grid dependent, outages, repairs, backhoe joe diggin into 3 miles up the road. Etc


If youre sitting on a 500 gallon tank of propane, youre set for a while.

How long do you think a 500 gallon tank would last. Our whole house is electric way out in the country so it isn't if the power goes out but when. We have been looking at Generac brand generators.
Originally Posted by Texczech
Originally Posted by slumlord
Propane

Nat gas is grid dependent, outages, repairs, backhoe joe diggin into 3 miles up the road. Etc


If youre sitting on a 500 gallon tank of propane, youre set for a while.

How long do you think a 500 gallon tank would last. Our whole house is electric way out in the country so it isn't if the power goes out but when. We have been looking at Generac brand generators.


You can do the math. Figure out fuel consumption on your engine (propane) and how often you'll run the engine.
Have a nat gas Generac that ran from Tuesday night 'til Sunday afternoon, while we were away most of that time at an SCI convention. Most of my neighbors abandoned their homes, and had significant water damage from broken pipes, etc.
Our unit kept the house at 70* the whole time we were gone. Pretty sure it saved us a large remodeling bill right there.
Unless you have a big tank, if the grid goes down, you won't have fuel of any kind. Propane is probably the easiest to store and it won't go bad. You need to get some kind of estimate on how many gal. of fuel it takes to run the gen for a given length of time at full load so you can guess how big of a tank you need. The gens that I've looked at tell you how long they'll run on a tank at 1/2 load. That's a starting point, anyway.
I’d go propane. Get a big tank. Stores forever and it’s onsite. Once it’s in your tank it doesn’t matter what is going on with the utilities in your area. I have a 22kw generac on propane but I don’t have NG within miles. Works great. Almost wish we’d lose power more often,
Propane is the way to go. Also since you said take it with you, check your local laws. It very well could be considered part of the house if installed on a pad and removal would cause damage or reduce the value of the house on removal.
If you have a tractor, you already have the engine and the fuel.

Get a PTO generator. That way you are not paying for an expensive engine that you'll hardly ever use.
Originally Posted by slumlord
Propane

Nat gas is grid dependent, outages, repairs, backhoe joe diggin into 3 miles up the road. Etc


If youre sitting on a 500 gallon tank of propane, youre set for a while.


This. Going with natural gas puts all your eggs into the “grid doesn’t go down” basket which is exactly the situation you’re trying to game for. I’d go propane with a dedicated tank.
I think they told me natural gas is more efficient , but I already had a 500 gallon propane tank from my friendly local gas company ..

Also consider that natural gas lines can be ruptured in an earthquake .
Wouldn't know if nat gas is more efficient.

Has fewer BTUs than propane.
Originally Posted by slumlord
Propane

Nat gas is grid dependent, outages, repairs, backhoe joe diggin into 3 miles up the road. Etc


If youre sitting on a 500 gallon tank of propane, youre set for a while.


How quaint.


500 gallons is almost some propane.
Just went through this in November. My power company Nevada Energy has been toying with shutting off the power during Red Flag days ala PG&E.

I'm already on propane so I just needed to upgrade the pipelines and buy tanks, regulators and accessories. It really helped being retired from a propane company that sold all of the above at cost.

I consulted with my old boss who's been setting up generators nonstop since the Camp Fire in Paradise a couple of years ago. He suggested going big and water cooled rather than air cooled and smaller as the smaller rigs run at closer to a full load and as such had higher failure rates.

Ended up getting a 32KW Generac 4 cylinder turbo charged after cooled model. So far loving it and it's way quieter than my folks new 22KW v-twin air cooled Generac. Mine shouldn't ever run above 1/2 load except when I have mini splits installed as a backup heat source if my boiler fails.

When I researched fuel loads the bigger gen was within 1 to 2 tenths of gallon per hour than my folks smaller generator and runs at half the rpm's and way quieter. The extended service schedule of the water cooled is icing on the cake.
What does a big water cooled setup like that cost?
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by slumlord
Propane

Nat gas is grid dependent, outages, repairs, backhoe joe diggin into 3 miles up the road. Etc


If youre sitting on a 500 gallon tank of propane, youre set for a while.


How quaint.


500 gallons is almost some propane.


If all your running is generator .

Jim , do you have any tractors that run on LP ?
If you must pick one, go with propane, as it is not dependent on a third party provider like natural, that’s of course if you install a BIG tank.

Mine is both natural and propane, although I am only hooked up to my propane tank at the moment.

If your whole house is electric, install another auxiliary propane powered heat source as well.

Maybe even get rid of the electric range and go propane.

Then bury a monster tank underground and keep it full. 1000 gal minimum
What's the best Propane ?
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by slumlord
Propane

Nat gas is grid dependent, outages, repairs, backhoe joe diggin into 3 miles up the road. Etc


If youre sitting on a 500 gallon tank of propane, youre set for a while.


How quaint.


500 gallons is almost some propane.


Is the guy trying to do the Ted Kuscinski hermit thing or just wanting a home genset for that once a year ice storm?
off grid solar works great, if you can maintain your batteries, and source new ones when necessary. It helps to have a generator on hand as well, because you won't always have adequate sunshine.
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
What does a big water cooled setup like that cost?


It was spendy. All in was about 22K. The gen was 12K and the two 500 gal tanks with two pipelines four regulators and hogtails ect was 3K. The rest was permits and two concrete slabs along with two transfer switches for 200 amp service and three electricians for a day. Also in that is tool rental for a jackhammer and trencher. That part sucked. One portion of the pipeline to the house I hit an 18' stretch the was solid granite-kicked my old ass but got her done.

Could've saved a couple of grand going naturally aspirated with the motor but at almost 5400' elevation was concerned about deration and using more fuel.
My northern MN place is totally off grid. Unless I missed it above the OP is a bit ahead of things. The first step is to go thru your entire place and make a list of everything that requires electricity and how much per day it draws. Everything. That will dictate power sources needed.
Once you have that plus add in a bit extra you’ll know how many batteries needed, how many solar screens needed and what size the screens are.
I run on 10 batteries, 2 380 watt screens, and a large Honda generator when needed. I have not needed the generator yet for regular use, I do use it to run welders etc.
I also run propane but only for the stove, fridge, and backup lighting if needed ( hasn’t happened ).
Propane is a “wet” fuel so I do not run any machinery with it.

Osky
Originally Posted by JLimbo
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
What does a big water cooled setup like that cost?


It was spendy. All in was about 22K. The gen was 12K and the two 500 gal tanks with two pipelines four regulators and hogtails ect was 3K. The rest was permits and two concrete slabs along with two transfer switches for 200 amp service and three electricians for a day. Also in that is tool rental for a jackhammer and trencher. That part sucked. One portion of the pipeline to the house I hit an 18' stretch the was solid granite-kicked my old ass but got her done.

Could've saved a couple of grand going naturally aspirated with the motor but at almost 5400' elevation was concerned about deration and using more fuel.


Thank you for your detailed response. You definitely have a great setup. 👍
Permits for concrete slabs? Wtf
Originally Posted by JLimbo
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
What does a big water cooled setup like that cost?


It was spendy. All in was about 22K. The gen was 12K and the two 500 gal tanks with two pipelines four regulators and hogtails ect was 3K. The rest was permits and two concrete slabs along with two transfer switches for 200 amp service and three electricians for a day. Also in that is tool rental for a jackhammer and trencher. That part sucked. One portion of the pipeline to the house I hit an 18' stretch the was solid granite-kicked my old ass but got her done.

Could've saved a couple of grand going naturally aspirated with the motor but at almost 5400' elevation was concerned about deration and using more fuel.


Dang, that’s getting close to a whole house solar setup. I played with it just for fun last year, and a Tesla roof with power wall was about 30 K, new construction, if memory serves. But then you don’t have much of a power bill at all anymore.
Im leaning towards propane generator
These guys have an interesting assortment of generators - all types of fuel and sizes:

http://www.centralmainediesel.com/propane-generators.asp
Originally Posted by Rick n Tenn
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by slumlord
Propane

Nat gas is grid dependent, outages, repairs, backhoe joe diggin into 3 miles up the road. Etc


If youre sitting on a 500 gallon tank of propane, youre set for a while.


How quaint.


500 gallons is almost some propane.


If all your running is generator .

Jim , do you have any tractors that run on LP ?


No. Everything is gas or diesel.
Originally Posted by slumlord
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by slumlord
Propane

Nat gas is grid dependent, outages, repairs, backhoe joe diggin into 3 miles up the road. Etc


If youre sitting on a 500 gallon tank of propane, youre set for a while.


How quaint.


500 gallons is almost some propane.


Is the guy trying to do the Ted Kuscinski hermit thing or just wanting a home genset for that once a year ice storm?


When he said "off the grid" I kinda figured a Unibomber scenario.
Originally Posted by slumlord
Permits for concrete slabs? Wtf



Technically yes but was overlooked by the inspectors. Permits for the underground gas lines and the underground electric and then above ground electric which includes the transfer switches and at last Truckee Meadows Fire protection district inspection. She really only needed to see that I had a gas shutoff, theres two and a emergency gen shutoff. Again there's two. Didn't mind at all, she is really cute.

And as for permits realize I'm only maybe 18 miles from Cali and these Nevada twats have taken fees and permits to a level not even seen in Cali. Nevada having no income tax squeezes you in every other way.
Originally Posted by IA_fog
Ok so with everything happening I’m seriously considering a whole home generator for backup power needs
What fuel source do you guys recommend?
I have natural gas on site
Do I go natural propane or diesel?
Pros or cons
If I sell and move could take this but new home sight would only be propane or diesel
Could sell with the home
Also looking at a small solar off grid recharging station. Something to keep all my cordless batteries recgarhded and my trolling motors
What are some affordable options there


I lived off grid about 14 years. Solar and wind. I ran a 10kw propane gen with a 1000 gal tank. My cooking Stove and heating stove, hot water heater, dryer were all propane too. If living there full time I would definitely do propane.

I kept a gas powered 6k harbor freight predator gen as a back up. I ran my well pump with an 8 k Honda gas gen to a 1500 gal gravity fed water cistern above my log home sitting on a small mountain. Worked well
Originally Posted by Rick n Tenn
I think they told me natural gas is more efficient , but I already had a 500 gallon propane tank from my friendly local gas company ..

Also consider that natural gas lines can be ruptured in an earthquake .
the electrical grid is more efficient than a generator but....you need reliable more than efficient.
And obviously fill up the tank in end of AUG OR Sept which typically are the lowest price for propane
Son built a big 3500sq ft house off the grid. Solar panels with a diesel generator backup. Generator was automatically kicking on way too often during the overcast winter months so we put in a micro-hydro system for backup off-grid trickle charge. We trenched/bulldozed in about 400' of PVC 4 inch pen stock with about a 130 foot drop in elevation to run this power plant with about 48 psi water pressure. It's a work in progress, but works nicely.
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