After a week long delay on a rifle purchase of the background check, it came back today denied. I am beginning the NICS appeal process immediately and am sort of bewildered by the whole thing.

Have any of you been denied and successfully appealed the denial? What was the process like? Did you need legal help or was it something you were able to do on your own?

The fugg did you do?

Thought there was a shall issue clause if delayed 3 days or more? Something like that.

You have a delay, not a deny?

Others will know. 🤔

It was a delay at first, followed by an outright denial. Cabela's won't hand over the gun unless they get the okay from NICS anyways. Right now I'm even more concerned that the FBI apparently thinks I'm a criminal... which is interesting because I bought a gun less than a year ago with no problem.

That sucks. Have you bought before without issue?

-Jake

I’m delayed about half the time. Never denied.

I'm always delayed a day.

Your name may be being confused with someone else, especially if you have a rather common name. Not giving your social can be a problem as well if that is the case. Might be time for you to look in to getting a UPIN number.

I’ve NEVER seen a person that applied for a UPIN, because they always got a delay, EVER get a proceed....NEVER! I’m not saying that it doesn’t happen but I don’t recall ever having a person with a UPIN get an immediate proceed.

As for denials all I can say is that you have to go through the process and it took most people 6 months to a year to get it squared away. More times than not there was a “legitimate” reason for the denial. Oftentimes it was unpaid traffic tickets/bench warrants and old convictions of DV/assault 4 and restraining orders. I’ve seen men in their 40’s and 50’s get denied because they had a juvenile conviction for a felony. They thought because they were kids or decades have passed without trouble that it’d be forgotten about, it ain’t.

Go through the process and if you’re really not prohibited you’ll get it worked out. It’s doubtful you’ll need an attorney unless you DO have something prohibiting you from owning firearms. In that case you’ll have to petition the court for expungement of the prohibiting violations.

My thoughts exactly!

Just a delay. My background doesn't allow for just any NICS monkey to access it.

I clear before they can take a second breath. But I don't have a common name.
Maybe that has something to do with it.

No, I moved to a free state, got a CWP and just walk the fuuck out with my firearm as the Founders sorta intended..

He's not going to tell us I wager.

I've been telling ya'll.................the government is reading what we post here.

If you want to be able to fly under the radar, better start posting down in the food part of this place.

Same here. It’s always a crapshoot but if delayed I get the approval usually within a day or two.

Good advice

What was the founders stance on the CWP permitting process?

.

On a delay they have 3-5 days to respond to deny or respond if they don't its yours.
The Cabelas guy who did the NICS check should have been told that.

I was denied once.

The shop ran it all again the next day. We never found out the cause but assumed it was a fat fingering of the keyboard or similar.

A good friend of mine was frequently denied due to his brother being a schit bag. He has fought that battle to the end of the earth but still gets denied on occasion.

I am not 100% sure and it may only be in PA, but that 3 day automatic approval went out with the wash since Covid. I think it is 14 days or maybe even more in PA and may just not be an automatic anything anymore in the state. This was caused in part by the huge backlogs of just getting an Operator. Guys were waiting hours just to get through. My friend switched over to internet PICS checks because of it.

New York State has a mandatory 30 day delay, after the federal delay period has ended.

In PA we have a pics (PA instant check system) background check, its ran by the PA state police, the people that answer the phones are civilian workers. When first stated in PA it was a mess. I went to Gander Mountain one day and tried to buy a rifle, I was denied, I was a FFL dealer at the time, they won't tell you why you were denied. So I sent in a reversal letter got it back in 2 weeks, I was cleared. Went to GM to pick up the rifle and was denied again even with my reversal letter. Well ok went to my local congress man, told him what was going on and he said go pick up your rifle. I was told from a buddy that worked at the pics a State Trooper that the workers there can have a bad day and just denied you for no reason. Don't know if this is the case with a NICS check, PA uses there records and NICS to do there back ground checks

The bad thing now i have to carry that reversal letter with me when buying a gun now, if I don't have it to show I will get turned down, even the freaking operator will ask if I have it, so they know I got one, what a freaking joke

X3


Jayco👍

Carry permit, no NICS

They're just computer monkeys that are running your schit.

Garbage in and garbage out.

Also if an alias comes up that matches your name, they may deny it just as SOP.

It's by no means an effective system. I would describe it as flat stupid. The problem is that when you're dealing with a dumb ass gun shop employee (God help you if it's Bass Pro or similar) they think your schit is being checked by a CIA operative. So they get all kghunty and flat refuse the sale. Instead of just trying again after a day or two.

I think the best way to go about it is to keep trying. You'll either get approved, or they will come arrest you. Either way it seems to me to be the fastest path to resolution.

Corporate rules.

Could be someone with the same name has a bad record, did you give them your SS#?

My permit, and a two minute phone call.

Had a buddy once, when I was a dealer and a new model handgun came out he would buy it. One week got 2 new ones in, he wanted to buy both of them at the same time. Told him to buy one now and come back in 7 days to get the other. Told him he would have to fill out a multiple FBI handgun form. He didn't care, well 2 weeks later tried to buy another handgun, he was flat Denied for no reason and far as I know is still denied and that was in 1998 that happened. Lost a very good customer because of the NICS

I just walk in and buy a rifle here in Canada, even have ordered used online and shipped to me.
Not long ago went into local gunsmith and saw some used rifles he had and bought one and carried it out with no issue.
I guess some things here are not bad yet.

I didn’t do anything, unless it’s been kept a secret from me. I’ve been trying to think of whether or not I’ve had some traffic ticket that I forgot about or something like that. The thing is I got pulled over just a couple of months ago and the policeman ran my license - you’d think if I was a fugitive on the run, the system would’ve told him.

Had something very similar happen. Started out getting delayed all the time, then denied. Don't remember the entire process, but IIRC, I basically had to provide more identification. Turns out a guy with the same name as me wasn't as nice as I am. To this day, I still have to provide my SSN if I want a timely approval of my basic human right of self defense.

Got many fcuced up stories of our PA pics check, best one is..... a Captian with the PA state police in uniform came in to transfer a gun from his dead uncle, told him didnt think we could do it as his aunt wasent with him and he didn't have the death certificate. Well called it in anyways and he was denied, they told me that I had to hold him there till the local police arrived to arrest him, i told them he was was a state police officer and is here in uniform. I also told them it wasent my job my fcuckin job to hold anyone. Well don't you know they called the local police and showed up to arrest the man. He waited around till they arrived, what a joke.

If somebody with the same name has a rap sheet as long as your arm and you don't include your SSN on the form, you will likely get a delay or outright denial. Ironically when I worked the gun bar at Academy many guys who were high up in TVA nuclear would often get delays. You know those guys were clean, but there was something in their background that would pop up during the background check.

That P.A.L has some advantages.

Delayed a couple of times. But they hiccuped and tried to deny once, and before I could call them, they called the LGS back and it was a mistake, proceed.

Pretty sure it was from a time in the 80's where a guy (black) was using my identity. I was a cop at the time, and the FBI called my sheriff and said they were sending an agent down to talk to me. When he got there, he was shocked that I was a white male...

He showed me where this guy was pulling off interstate thefts and all sorts of stuff. They had his picture and 2-3 forms of ID that had my name, SSN & even DL number. Sheriff thought it was funny, and said he shouldn't have confirmed who I was, just to see how far the agent would have gone... Gee! Thanks, Sheriff!

Time to time, that still pops up.

Hours, days weeks... delay delay deny... Always end up with the gun at the end. Thank goodness it is an "instant check" here. And now the delays are longer since the fees got bumped up to improve "customer service"

Lets just hope the same gov't guys are put in charge of the confiscation patrols, but I fear not.

If you have certain clearances they can see that you've been "investigated."

It will often cause delays.

The customer doesn't fill out the Multiple Handgun Sale form. In fact, there's no need to even tell the customer about it. If he quit dealing with you because of that, he wasn't much of a "buddy", was he?

I gave them my SSN... my only thought is that Cabelas entered something wrong, but they aren’t about to run a background check again on me just to make sure (I asked).

I was turned down about a year after I had bought a rifle from the same store. I went through the appeal process and it was again denied but with conditions. The LGS was able to sell me gun. When I got the reason for turning me down from the TBI they said that I had a list of convictions that I had to clear up. If you've never had this type of thing happen you are lucky. Trying to clean up a negative is almost impossible. I had an attorney write to the city where the crimes were supposed to have happened and the city wrote back that they had no record of the crimes. (Of course they didn't. It didn't happen.) We sent letter to the TBI and asked that it be cleared up. The response I got back was absurd. They said that just because the reporting city does not have any records of the crime, does not mean the crime didn't take place. The dates of the supposed crimes were over 45 years before I applied. I would have been 16, a minor. I pointed that out to them and they said basically, too bad. To clear it up, I had to go to federal court and appeal the decision. The judge looked at everything and ruled right on the spot that my record had to be cleared. After two years I got a letter from the FBI saying that my records had been cleared and I was now able to purchase a firearm without an appeal process. Thanks goodness I had the money to fight this. Many would not. It cost me over twenty thousand dollars to clear my name. I never found out why these charges had been attributed to me and I will never know. BTW,,,from the time of the initial turn down to receiving the final letter from the FBI was almost four years.

I wish you the best of luck. When you are right you have to fight it as far as you can. If we all don't do our part, we will lose our rights completely.

No schit, I filled it out as a FFL dealer, not him I told him not too, said he didn't want the FBI in his bussiness, he couldn't buy a gun anymore so why come to a gun shop

Power hungry bureaucrats that suck up your tax dollars. Our Sheriff is an ex TBI guy, he thinks ONLY cops should be able to carry guns, and that LEOs are all Supermen.

Two biggest cockblocks to Constitutional Carry in Tennessee are the Sheriff's Association/Chiefs of Police and the Chamber of Commerce.

Most rank and file LEOs are on our side, the management bunch not so much.

I typically provide my SS number. But the last two I didn't and it went straight through still.

-Jake

Reread your original post. This is what you said

Well I'm not going back to edit it

This ^^^^^ would be my guess as well. Someone at Cabelas fat fingered or misspoke something. I have only ever had one delay. Put my middle initial on the 4473 instead of my full middle name. Once my FFL was on the phone, he guessed at my middle name (guessed wrong). And I was delayed for three days. Lesson learned. Don't take short cuts on the 4473. Fill out everything completely. Zero room for errors...

When I lived in VA, there was some felon that had a name close to mine. It was always in VA. Delayed for a day.

Everywhere else, no.

The constitution says "shall not be infringed" period. Gun laws are not intended to help honest people buy guns, they are intended to make it more difficult for everyone to purchase firearms. If you don't include all the information they ask for, you reduce your chances of getting approved.
Arizona does not require a permit to carry a concealed weapon but has a provision to acquire a concealed weapons permit. With that permit, no background check is required. You just walk in, fill out the 4473, show the dealer your permit and walk out with the firearm. Avoids being subject to incompetent people who have the authority to spoil your day. Should you have to do this? NO Is it constitutional? NO Is it reality? YES How do we change it? DON'T KNOW

They see you coming and start throwing Ruger's at you before you hit the front door.

This is simply not true.

The Brady Law says,

If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after 3 business days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer). If the FFL transfers the firearm, the FFL must note “no resolution was provided within 3 business days” on line 19d of the ATFForm4473. (Pleaserefertopages24and25oftheFBINICSFFLUserManual.)

So No, the firearm is Not Yours. The FFL has the right to complete the transfer or Not.

Many corporations do not allow the transfer to be completed.

Not all states, why dont know .

Long story , didn't put SSN 3 times = 3 denials, FBI will call you trust me . I know

As per this article written by Molly Ball, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce we instrumental in getting the "win" for Joe Biden. If you haven't read it, you should.

https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

An old friend had been in the Air Force back during the Cold War, he was a spook who spent his 8 years listening in on Russian communications and translating them. Very high security clearance. He got denied every time , sometimes for just an hour or two, other times for a couple of days.

Depends on the length of issuance and regulations the state puts on issuance. Of course they can be rescinded at any time with changes in state law concerning issuance of CCW that don’t comply to ATF regs. Here’s the latest list.

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-permit-chart

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-state-lists

The FBI called you? Why?

I would be thinking BATF

The Failed Bureau of Instigation handles the NICS system not Always Totally Fugged.

I probably buy six or seven firearms each year for the last five years or so. I never put my social security number on the ATF 4473 form, it is optional. Never been denied, but I do have my Concealed Carry Permit in KY and I am checked every month in KY. I made the mistake of buying two handguns the same day once, won't do that again. Separate paper work goes to the county sheriff in that case.

Denied 3 x I guess spread out over like 6 months. FBI lady was very helpful in resolving the issue. Entire name 2 letters off , birthday same 1 year apart . Height weight same . Convicted felon in CA.
Funny thing is those time I left off SSN was by accident. Have a file of the convict, even look a bit alike 🥴. Given a personal ID number I can use, never have never have forgot SSN number again either 😁.no problems again numbers purchases since. The incident happened 01- 02 range I think. May have wife find few and see ,curious myself.

We all know the FBI is corrupt, what’s to stop Biden’s FBI from denying every sale?

The FBI contacted someone for no SSN on the form? Or for what? It states right on the form that providing your SSN is not required, but optional.

Think it was making sure is was not a convicted felon trying to use someone's identity to purchase a firearm .

Part of the reason may be that they're having to process so many firearm purchases these days, They're getting bombarded with NICS checks.

16. Social Security Number (optional, but will help prevent misidentification)

I only buy privately now

This is the way it used to be in Washington state. Then our lovely AG and the Seattlites that know so much about how to govern changed it with I1639. Now, everyone gets a check, delay, and maybe we will let you have a firearm. If it is for an assault weapon (any semiauto firearm) you have to allow your medical records to hang out in space for anyone to see.

A lot of us have had our Driver's License for a LONG time. Lots of times when renewing, the clerk just copies information off of last card you had. This may happen many times over the years. When calling in the 4473, the FFL gives information off of 4473 and your Driver's License. If you give correct up to date information on 4473 about your weight, height etc. and it differs from Driver License, that throws up a red flag on the other end. Make sure the information on the 4473 is EXACTLY the same as your Driver's License.

While you are correct about Arizona, try using your permit at a Walmart. They refuse to accept it It's either go through the Fugging Bastard Idiots or nothing. Yes, I have a permit.
Paul B.

LOL
My son has his permit to carry, here in MN it doubles as a permit to purchase.

He was at Fleet Farm buying a Ruger Blackhawk 44 Mag.

He was filling out the forms when the clerk told him that he could not continue without a permit to purchase. A discussion took place about his permit to purchase vs the permit to carry The manger was called and he was dumber than the clerk.

We punched up the information on the State Website on his phone, they both read it and said, nope you are wrong.

They called somebody in corporate and we were told they could not sell without a Permit to Purchase and the Permit to carry does not qualify.

Idiots

A friend here experienced denials.

He legally charged his first name from Michael to Mike, and hadn’t had the same problem.

Schitbird with the same common name.

A shadow of the place it was before the Mills family sold it. I've been delayed, never denied. Hope it stays that way.

I'm delayed about 1/2 the time, even with a UPIN number. Started to happen after I started working for the government. Think the 2nd to the last gun I purchased the pawn shop never received a response.

Personally I have a very un-common name and a clean background.

Just a bunch of BS

Had a relative of mine.... 35 years old .... denied a driver’s license renewal... he had been a Colorado resident since birth and held a Colorado driver’s license since he was 16. He says “What?”..... And they tell him he has been “flagged”.... did not pay some civic debt... can’t remember exactly, but as I recall it was a county property tax bill..... from...get this.... 20 years before. He never owned any property to pay tax on....

So, he explains what he can and the clerk agrees with him but tells him the “computer” won’t let a license be issued and there is nothing they can do....

So, he goes to the court house and presents the issue.... but they have no record of the property or the bill or any sort of tax deficiency ..... except that “yes, we can see that you have been flagged”.....so he asks how and why that could happen and who did it? The fog rolls and they tell him they can’t do anything about it and he is simply “flagged.” They don’t even know any dollar amount for the deficiency.

In the ensuing conversation, voice levels are raised.... nobody is happy.... the folks at the county speculate that “somebody” mistyped a SSN and that is how the error got introduced and “no, we don’t know who did it or even when.....we can’t clear it without a payment as that is what the computer demands”.......and then they tell him that if he pays $200, they will process the payment and the flag can be removed. That does nothing but make matters worse..... so he goes home, calls a lawyer and the lawyer tells him to pay the $200 and get on with life.

This guy gives up, pays the $200..... I ask why he did that and not keep pressing the issue.... he tells me “I am so angry that it is now worth $200 for me to be able to keep telling this story of county gov’t incompetence and LOGAS.”

Yah, uhh huhhh...

Why would I come here to ask about getting denied and appealing if I knew I was a felon or a fugitive or something? Anyways, I'm just a stranger on the internet so I guess it doesn't really matter if I'm telling the truth or not or if people believe me.

Sounds like a lot of you have experienced delays, but not too many denials. Most of the denials I read about are from people with criminal records that they thought wouldn't count against them (juvenile stuff or things that have been expunged/pardoned), or from people with unknown bench warrants from minor stuff like traffic violations. There is the occasional case of mistaken identity as well. I'm assuming I fall in the last category, because I've never been arrested and I would have been prompt with any parking tickets or that sort of thing. But I guess you never know.

I'm not looking forward to the appeal process. Sounds like it can take forever.

Did the shop say they’d try it again?

Never mind.

I saw now that they said they’d not run it again.

I’d walk away. Fugk em.

Good news, I guess. I found the source of my trouble - someone with my name with a warrant out in a different state. Different age, but a typo somewhere in the system had me flagged as their guy. It took a lot of phone calls just to find it, and I was glad to find a sheriff's department finally willing to run my name through the system over the phone. It is getting fixed. Now I get to begin the long process of an NICS appeal.

If I find a gun I really want between now and when the appeal goes through, I might try to see if I pass the check, since hopefully I will soon be no longer associated with a faraway felony warrant. But I think that simply having a previous denial is enough to get you denied again.

Happened to my wife at the local Walmarks, trying to buy a shotgun. Dumb bimbo behind the counter apparently couldn't read and entered wife's SSN wrong, then proceeds to tell wife that she must have filled out the form wrong when the background check bombed. They go round and round with the idiot behind the counter refusing to admit she fugged up the SSN, until my wife finally told her to stick the shotgun up her ass and walked out.

Heh. We are in Big Brother Land, all right .

A friend of ours has Lou Gehrig's disease bad and getting worse. He fell the other day when his wife was out in the yard. His Apple watch immediately notified his wife, EMT, both local of course, and his DIL down in Oregon. He didn't know there was that function on the watch. Nor did I until now.

Then I heard of someone else who figured out how to turn it off, as he was taking frequent falls on ice, and got tired of all the EMT call outs for no reason.

Yet.

I didn’t know you had to put your phone number on the form. Surprised I haven’t been denied.

Have had a Hazmat endorsement since I was 21.
Now, that includes getting fingerprinted and a Homeland
Security background check every renewal.

A dealer commented that he never had a Hazmat CDL holder
denied. That they always went through fast.


Have that up last renewal, too big a PITA plus $$ to keep since
I'm not hauling fuel anymore. Will see if anything changes.


Hmmm?

Buy a gun to test it?

In MN, I'd be more inclined to believe they each were anti gun types....

here in Oregon, we see it here...

I've bought a firearm or two up in the Potlandia area, and had to wait several hours for a back ground check to go thru for me...

get out of Metro Potlandia, it is usually approved in minutes... instead of "usually", its more along the lines of every time..

while others wait, I am always surprised to see my approval returned so quickly.... knock on wood...its getting worse out there, not better...

You know, them denying the transfer is complete BS.

When there's similarities, a delay may be expected if information is close. I've even seen some delayed when it wasn't that close.

But to outright deny the transfer is either incompetent or malicious.

livein western New Jersey, I do all my transfers in Easton, PA. I love the PICS system, 30 seconds and done! New Jersey is 4-7 day wait. Plus, PA is half the cost.

I've actually handed the phone to a guy after he got denied and they were able to tell him exactly what was flagged about him...so no guessing on his part...he was able to take care of the issue.

I've seen an alias being an issue before. I'd have run into it myself personally. Not a common last name but dangit if someone in the county I live in has the same first and last name...and the joker stays in trouble. When getting my carry license recently, the sheriffs office called me concerning my name (even though ssn didn't match up), and I had to explain the issue about the other guy to them. They bothered to call thankfully.

Dang joker evidently broke some girls heart and her mom looked up our name in the phone book and ended up calling me instead, made for an eventful evening at the house.

Picked up a pistol yesterday I had ordered in. Local mom and pop shop. Took more time waiting on the customers ahead of me receiving in their new guns than it did for my 'proceed' to come back.



What are these 'costs' you speak of? No costs here, other than the cost of the gun and the sales tax. Or buy online, only cost is the $10-$20 transfer fee the FFL pockets for doing the paperwork.

You don't, dealer dies usually adj or a phone number to reach you at . But I doubt it's very had for the fbi to get a phone number for someone.

Interesting on providing your SSN - one would think that would clear up any confusion due to someone else with the same name. The one and only time I provided my SSN, I was delayed for the first time. I haven't provided it since and have not been delayed again. I've never had a denial, but glad you're getting your issue cleared up...

I think one issue is that warrants aren’t necessary tied to SSN’s in the system. I’m also applying for a VAF number and hoping that helps me avoid this crud in the future.

More good news for anyone interested in this weird system we have. When I filed my appeal for my NICS denial, I also submitted scanned copies of my fingerprints to the VAF appeal system to get a UPIN number. That was just two days ago, and today I received my UPIN. So I guess things are getting cleared up. My NICS denial appeal has still not been processed, but I guess being approved for a VAF number means at least someone at the FBI doesn't think I'm a criminal. Overall, I'm very pleasantly surprised with the speed of the VAF process.

I fill out several requests for info every week, it seems all they care about is drug use and failed drug tests.

The whole system is a waste of time. Criminals don't buy from gun stores.


Mike

Same here.

I was wondering how many felons try to buy from a gun store?

Not that anyone cares at this point, but after getting my UPIN I went ahead and had Cabela's run the background check. They were weird about it, and no one at the gun counter remembered doing a transaction for someone with a UPIN. Long story short, I got the rifle. Today I got my official response to my NICS appeal - in my favor.

This all worked out well for me, because I've been applying for some new jobs that will likely run background checks. If I hadn't caught this issue now and gotten it sorted out, it could've lost me a job down the line.