Description...

Black hair/brown eyes

A G29 would leave no doubt if they were hit.

Well, that sucks.

Goes to show how important handgun selection could be.

Since he had a permit jn Chicago, im guessing Firfighters
are "Special" like cops and politicians?

Shame that's my first thought but I have known a few
gun owners who lived in Chitcago. It ain't easy.

One of us normal people would have been legally required to
be helpless.

This video could easily be used by our opposition.
Don't think I would have used it to put out there as an example.

So....

If the victim would have had a Glock, the perp running away, firing blindly over his shoulder could not have hit the victim in the abdomen?

No schit....

Ni99a, ni99a, ni99a. When we self-sensor, and bow to the programming, we've lost the war, even if we win a battle here and there.

With sixteen or eighteen rounds onboard, he could have laid down a lot of fire, anchoring the bad guy down quickly, and/or sapping enough of his (the bad guy's) confidence that he wouldn't have attempted return fire while running away. He also needed to use two hands.

A Glock may have helped, but shooting skills would have been even better.

Getting hit with a round fired over the shoulder by the criminal means the poor man had a huge dose of bad luck, and there is nothing that can prevent that except killing the shooter before he fires. But that's much easier said than done.
No matter how much you train and no matter how much skill you have "luck" can and sometimes does come into play for both good and ill.
There is not a way to fight to the death in total safety.

Lucky shot

Should of dropped the popcorn.

Instinctive reaction to sudden stress is to hold whatever is in your hands tighter. That didn't help the victim in this case.

Absolutely, but if the attacker had been down for the count due to the defender's flurry of two handed fire form a (e.g.,) a Glock 19, he wouldn't have had the opportunity for a lucky shot.

Defender also should have remained behind the car. I think he ran out after the guy due to lack of confidence in his marksmanship as the range to the bad guy was stretching out longer.

I didn't listen to the video. I skimmed it real quick. The best tactical option for the victim was to keep the vehicle between himself and the attacker rather than pursue him once he started retreating.

Exactly right, I'm glad the guy made a point of saying it.

Don't have a Glock. But I have a Ruger Security 9 that I bought, in part, because it came with 2 15 round magazines.

Running out from behind the car and into the open was his fatal flaw...

Cover and concealment are a thing.

His biggest error was living in Chicago.

Next would be missing his target from point blank range.

No do overs. That first round was the one he needed to connect with. Not having 15 rounds wasn't the cause of missing.

I guess that car was worth dying for

I don't think that was the choice the man had. He was assaulted by three men, two armed. I don't think any terms were exchanged, just bullets. But how easy is it to sit on your fat ass and make calls like that?

Big +1. Other than giving up his cover and not dropping the damn popcorn he did better than 95% of us would have.

Gun selection had nothing to do with this outcome. He sent them running with his first shot. As the narrator stated, had he not left his cover and if he had dropped his popcorn to get two hands on his pistol to make sure he got some hits on target, he would be alive today. Two shooters spraying bullets around in panic shooting just increase the odds that a passerby will get hit. Don't abandon your cover unless you have to and going after fleeing perps is not that reason.

As easy as you dising what is wrote with your infinite wisdom

The popcorn definitely was. Victim just didn't want his car getting shot up...…..sorry, dark humor.

The perps must have been casing the car while the vic was in the popcorn store....did you see how fast they pulled around the corner and dismounted their vehicle. They must have chose the car, then waited for the owner to return.

What a buncha dumbasses if he had not had a gun they would have taken his car maybe his wallet and left him standing holding his popcorn to eat at his pleasure another day.'
If your gonna carry you gotta be smart enough to know when to use it and when its better not to

When three guys jump out of a car two of them with guns coming at you it's time to use your gun.

Yep. 1st priority is reliable function. After that, can you hit your target? Can’t speak for the average fella but my first shot in that circumstance would have put Shooter 1 6’ under.

Depending on the kindness of joggers is a bad plan regardless of the circumstances.

If you want to die it's a great idea, BTW odds are he didn't know only 2 were armed.
Like I said before I guess the car was worth dying for

He saw the other armed perp coming around the back side of the suv in his peripheral and had the one in front taking his fire and running away. That is probably why he gave up his position behind the suv.

I think a lot of people opt for revolvers because of their simplicity. Double action revolver shooting is much more difficult to master.

Yep, I was using "Glock" to represent a whole class of commonly carried service pistols.

They couldn't get the car without first subduing the man who held its keys. You want to surrender to unknown armed thugs in the hope they will be merciful towards you if you do what they want?

Need to be treated like the invasive species that they are and eradicated...

My thinking was that they saw him park there, took a position some distance away, and waited for him to return, then drove over to him to do the car jacking.

Bingo!

He probably didn't know it was the vehicle they were after. The popcorn and the stupid move out into the open is what got him killed. That said I would certainly have killed the first guy and would not have moved into the open. The popcorn would have hit the ground at the same time I was pulling my 1911.

I guess I missed the part of the video you keep referring to where some sort of civilized negotiation happened, where the armed criminals gave their demands, and the the armed victim refused those demands. Fuuck you, retard. And yes, I am smarter than you.

A better revolver (e.g., a three inch, round butt, Model 13 S&W) likely would have been a far better choice than a Chief Special, if one prefers a revolver.

You need to give up your avatar, you are bringing it dishonor.

As for mastering a double action revolver I don't see that as a big problem. Shoot a couple of hundred rounds through it every year just like you should any carry pistol.

You'd be the dead smart guy, I would have been the moron going home to my wife.

Pure fantasy on your part, how could you know the motives in the minds of the renegade Negros?

That's very easy to type out on the internet.

Yeah it's an idiotic claim.

Ever shoot a double action at something quickly, that was moving , in a unexpected situation?
I have
Paul was right

Agreed. Not hard to master, if you're willing to put in the effort.

Lets make it easy for ya,
You need to know when to hold em and when to fold

Still would have done better to stay put and pop the other guy as he rounded the back passenger side corner..


It would have maintained a more effective range for that little gun.

Wonder if his keys were in the popcorn hand...

WTH just happened here? There's a first time for everything. I am about to go for a bicycle ride. Keep these guys in check while I am gone.

I would guess the victim's actions were more instinctive than deliberate.

By the time he drew his weapon, he likely already had tunnel vision on the closest perps gun. Probably didn't know how many armed adversaries he was even facing.

It's easy to call the plays from here, another matter when you are in this victim's shoes.

They kind of had the drop on him, but he chose to draw his weapon, and almost succeeded, but the luck factor wasn't with him that day.

As Jeff Cooper said, live in condition yellow.

It's fun to read the exchanges here, but I somewhat believe
that you have a date. You can change it. Maybe.
But call it God ordered,
fate, Destiny, I don't know.

But, he could have been carrying a G18 with 33 rounders,
dropped the popcorn, used 2 hands around the car, and still
ended up on a slab.

Luck?
Hell, no one got lucky.
The firefighter obviously.

The carjacker?

Hell no!
We just wanted to get out of Dodge.
That "lucky" bullet made him a murderer, his buddies,
felony murderers!

In hindsite, knowing they only wanted his car, 700 is right.
If he had tossed them his keys, lifted his hands and stepped back, or ran,
he would have only lost an insured car. And not been molested.

If you had a do over, knowing what we know, how would it play?

Having said all this,
He saw men charging him, drawing guns.
Express kidnappings are a thing.
Random and targeted murder are things.

Fighting was not a bad choice!

Watch out for the diesel pickups,,, lol

I carried a scadnium J frame quite a bit the last few years in 357 and a 7 shot 22 mag. Last year's events encouraged me to buy a sig 365 with 3 12 round mags for a small carry gun.

Bb

All you have to do is run a couple hundred rounds through any double action handgun at one shooting session. By the end you will be easily hitting into 4 inches at the 7 yard range. The trick is to learn to time the sights on target as the gun goes off (practice doing it dry firing). Many semi auto's are double action on the first shot are you saying just throw that one away and start trying to make a hit when it is going single action? Was the victims pistol double action only? I may just have played a lot with pistols and can't see difficulties others are concerned with. The victim probably didn't bother himself with getting his sights on target in the first place or even doing the bare minimum of practice.

Must have been that bag of popcorn.

My 2 questions and cents worth.
1. how do you know if he's given up his keys he still doesn't get shot.
2. Why do people obsess with carrying a very small handgun if you have a concealed permit. I personally carry what makes me feel confident that I can hit what I'm shooting at, and enough cartridges to finish what I'm doing...

Yep and yep.

For me, it's the Glock 19 when I'm wearing pants and the Glock 26 when I'm wearing shorts.

I have carried a Chief's Special in my pocket quite a bit, and I won't disparage anyone's choice of carry gun.. BUT... Honestly, a J frame .38 can be VERY difficult to shoot well. They're tiny. The handle is super tiny. For a person with large hands, like myself, it can be nearly impossible. I tried for a long time, and I can shoot... OK with it, but not great. You can put larger grips on them, but at that point, might as well carry a bigger gun.... So, now I carry a bigger gun. A .45 is on my hip every day. A gun I can shoot well, and operate easily. No, it's not so "concealable", but I don't care.

Would a different gun have helped this guy? I don't know. I think his biggest problem is that he didn't tuck down behind the car, he tried to chase the nigras down.

I can't blame him for REALLY wanting to kill that bastard.

And, with the tiny gun, he didn't think he could do it unless he closed the distance quite a bit, which is why he ran towards him instead of just taking careful aim and firing from relative safety.

They probably would have capped your ass just for being weak.

I don't believe his thought processing was nearly that complicated. I'd say all he was thinking was "you sumbitch! I'll get you!!!"

Bwahahaha! Burn!

No, he knew instinctively that, with that gun, he needed to close the distance to get a sure hit.

What I saw was a real world situation that could occur in most peoples lives. Only a drooler would surrender in advance at that level of threat. What was apparent was that the victim was un/poorly trained and not well practiced. For many, having the gun is their comfort animal and they fail to prepare themselves mentally and physically for a tough fight.

Achieving and maintaining a realistic mindset is the base of a self defense plan. Once you accept the fact that you may have to fight for your life and that you don't get to choose what the fight will be you can decide what tools and methods give you the best results. Training and regular deliberate practice are essential to achieve and maintain competence.

I believe there are members here that could have solved that problem w/ a 2" revolver but not the majority. Most competent shooters would not choose that weapon for an EDC.

YMMV


mike r

If by pure luck you made it home to your wife, it would be to watch her get fuucked by some more black guys. Keep digging, bitch, keep digging.

I don't believe you could add to this. I totally agree.

I miss high left with them if my grip and trigger finger isn't placed perfectly.

I had a J frame long ago. Steel 642. It wasn't the easiest thing to shoot fast and accurate.

Early in my carry years, I started carrying a Glock 17. Along the way, I tried a SP101 357 with 2.25" barrel, and a Hogue Monogrip. Now that was shootable. But for the size/weight/ammo capacity, I decided the Glock 17 was a better choice.

unlike your women we don't do that sort of thing,,like your mama did when she got pregnant with you?

Well he might be "right" about some no shooting poorly trained individual. Would you care to point a gun at me and take off running starting from 3 yards? I promise I will only shoot double action. That said the Chiefs Special is also capable of single action shooting. The guys real problems along with his piss poor shooting ability was having no tactical awareness. He could have easily shot with the pistol rested over the hood of the vehicle. I also feel you have never shot a small 38 revolver. Some shoot plenty good enough for the purpose at hand. Not my favorite pistols but I have carried 2 inch barreled 38 snubbies many a mile. Still have one but today I usually carry something a bit bigger that holds more rounds after watching the riots of last year.

So since the weather is nice and I have some brass that needs emptying I think I will take my 4 inch 586 outside and burn up a box or two just to stay in practice.

I thought about that too. I can easily see myself wanting to send that little piece of schidt to hell. Multiple assailant scenarios are difficult even for the well trained to manage. I can't say what I would have done. My mental preparation guides me to do all I can to keep cover between myself and someone who wants to kill me. But when it gets real?

I watch this stuff and what runs through my mind is man I wish I'd have been driving down that street. No shots needed. 6000 lbs. running over the stupid jerks. Sorry this guy lost his life.

You gotta do better than to go after my mom after I bent you over like that in front of all these guys. I think you're almost to paydirt, bitch, just a bit more digging!

your the fool that turned this ugly, let everyone see you for the person you are, live with it

You can't say that for certain... it could have been
the perps lucky day no matter what dreamy hindsight
BS you want to spin...(remember the LEO that got
all those solid .357 mag hits on a perp, then got
killed by a lucky shot from perps .22 LR..???)

Your crap takes second place only to Pastor Correia
suggestion 'praying to Jesus' would have made the
unfortunate victim more prepared .....How does
Correia know the firefighter didn't pray to Jesus
and that the outcome was not "God's will"..?.

One should really know the difference between the two.

One may stop a bullet, the other will not.

If you say so.

If you say so.

[quote=lvmiker.

I believe there are members here that could have solved that problem w/ a 2" revolver but not the majority. Most competent shooters would not choose that weapon for an EDC.

YMMV


mike r[/quote]

If you say so.

I like the old school choice of bullets.

beats the heck out of a sharp stick.

It's a Baby Chief!

I'd have to do something other than the LRN bullets, though!

To leave cover with a partially expended small revolver was, inadvisable...

Yup, on both counts

Double or single action, just takes a little effort at the range. Jokers dissin' DA revolvers ought remember that a lot of autojammers are DA also.

My first handgun was a Ruger SB and it was also the first I handloaded for. Worked out ok to my way of thinking.



You gotta ask yourself a question. Do you feel lucky?

25 yards offhand



With this old S&W