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We've Been Telling the Alamo Story Wrong for Nearly 200 Years. Now It's Time to Correct the Record

We've Been Telling the Alamo Story Wrong for Nearly 200 Years. Now It's Time to Correct the Record
Illustration of the Battle of the Alamo, San Antonio, Texas, March 6, 1836. Illustration of the Battle of the Alamo, San Antonio, Texas, March 6, 1836.
Getty Images

By Bryan Burrough and Jason Stanford
June 9, 2021 5:43 PM EDT

Imagine if the U.S. were to open interior Alaska for colonization and, for whatever reason, thousands of Canadian settlers poured in, establishing their own towns, hockey rinks and Tim Hortons stores. When the U.S. insists they follow American laws and pay American taxes, they refuse. When the government tries to collect taxes, they shoot and kill American soldiers. When law enforcement goes after the killers, the colonists, backed by Canadian financing and mercenaries, take up arms in open revolt.

As an American, how would you feel? Now you can imagine how Mexican President Jose Lopez de Santa Anna would have felt in 1835, because that’s pretty much the story of the revolution that paved the way for Texas to become its own nation and then an American state.

If that’s not the version of history you’re familiar with, you’re not alone. The version most Americans know, the “Heroic Anglo Narrative” that has held sway for nearly 200 years, holds that American colonists revolted against Mexico because they were “oppressed” and fought for their “freedom,” a narrative that has been soundly rebutted by 30-plus years of academic scholarship. But the many myths surrounding Texas’ birth, especially those cloaking the fabled 1836 siege at the Alamo mission in San Antonio, remain cherished in the state. Even as the nation is undergoing a sweeping reassessment of its racial history, and despite decades of academic research that casts the Texas Revolt and the Alamo’s siege in a new light, little of this has permeated the conversation in Texas.

Start with the Alamo. So much of what we “know” about the battle is provably wrong. William Travis never drew any line in the sand; this was a tale concocted by an amateur historian in the late 1800s. There is no evidence Davy Crockett went down fighting, as John Wayne famously did in his 1960 movie The Alamo, a font of misinformation; there is ample testimony from Mexican soldiers that Crockett surrendered and was executed. The battle, in fact, should never have been fought. Travis ignored multiple warnings of Santa Anna’s approach and was simply trapped in the Alamo when the Mexican army arrived. He wrote some dramatic letters during the ensuing siege, it’s true, but how anyone could attest to the defenders’ “bravery” is beyond us. The men at the Alamo fought and died because they had no choice. Even the notion they “fought to the last man” turns out to be untrue. Mexican accounts make clear that, as the battle was being lost, as many as half the “Texian” defenders fled the mission and were run down and killed by Mexican lancers.

Nor is it at all clear that the Alamo’s defenders “bought time” for Sam Houston to raise the army that eventually defeated Santa Anna at the Battle of San Jacinto the following month. Santa Anna had told Mexico City he expected to take San Antonio by March 2; he ended up doing so on March 6. In the end, the siege at the Alamo ended up costing him all of four days. Meaning the Alamo’s defenders, far from being the valiant defenders who delayed Santa Anna, pretty much died for nothing.

So why does any of this matter? What’s the harm in Texans simply embracing a myth?

Census data indicates that Latinos are poised to become a majority of the Texas population any year now, and for them, the Alamo has long been viewed as a symbol of Anglo oppression. The fact that many Tejanos — Texas Latinos— allied with the Americans, and fought and died alongside them at the Alamo, has generally been lost to popular history. The Tejanos’ key contributions to early Texas were written out of almost all early Anglo-authored histories, much as Anglo Texans ran Tejanos out of San Antonio and much of South Texas after the revolt. For too long, the revolt has been viewed by many as a war fought by all Anglos against all of Mexican descent.

“If you’re looking at the Alamo as a kind of state religion, this is the original sin,” says San Antonio art historian Ruben Cordova. “We killed Davy Crockett.”

It’s a lesson many Latinos in the state don’t learn until mandatory Texas history classes taught in seventh grade. “The way I explain it,” says Andres Tijerina, a retired history professor in Austin, “is Mexican-Americans [in Texas] are brought up, even in the first grade, singing the national anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance and all that, and it’s not until the seventh grade that they single us out as Mexicans. And from that point on, you realize you’re not an American. You’re a Mexican, and always will be. The Alamo story takes good, solid, loyal little American kids and it converts them into Mexicans.”

And Mexican-American history isn’t the only piece of the past that’s distorted by the Alamo myth. Academic researchers long tiptoed around the issue of slavery in Texas; active research didn’t really begin until the 1980s. Since then, scholars such as Randolph Campbell and Andrew Torget have demonstrated that slavery was the single issue that regularly drove a wedge between early Mexican governments—dedicated abolitionists all—and their American colonists in Texas, many of whom had immigrated to farm cotton, the province’s only cash crop at the time.

His correspondence shows conclusively that Stephen F. Austin, the so-called “Father of Texas,” spent years jousting with the Mexico City bureaucracy over the necessity of enslaved labor to the Texas economy. “Nothing is wanted but money,” he wrote in a pair of 1832 letters, “and Negros are necessary to make it.” Each time a Mexican government threatened to outlaw slavery, many in Austin’s colony began packing to go home. In time, as we know now, they put away their suitcases and brought out their guns.

This, by and large, is not the Texas history many of us learned in school; instead, we learned a tale written by Anglo historians beginning in the 19th century. What happened in the past can’t change. But the way we view it does—and, as a state and a country, now is the time to teach the next generation our history, not our myths.
Penguin

Bryan Burrough and Jason Stanford are, with Chris Tomlinson, the authors of Forget the Alamo: The Rise and Fall of an American Myth, available now from Penguin Press.
Bull Chit.
Yeah, this is the new book that Birdy and I alluded to on the constitutional carry bill signing thread.
Except that the settlers were invited into the territory and then abused when they got there. Nice way to tell half the story and make sure to have it be as PC as possible.

This fugging world is damn near not worth living in.
Typical Revisionist Bullschitt.

Prettt soon they’ll move to tear down the George Washington Memorial in DC. Or the Vietnam War Memorial.

If folks like this get their way, The Alamo would be turned into another Taco Bell. 😡
Originally Posted by stxhunter
Bull Chit.



Yep.

"Woke" MF'rs.

Might be more than one famous battle over those sacred grounds before it's over...
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Yeah, this is the new book that Birdy and I alluded to on the constitutional carry bill signing thread.


Yep.

“t’s a lesson many Latinos in the state don’t learn until mandatory Texas history classes taught in seventh grade. “The way I explain it,” says Andres Tijerina, a retired history professor in Austin, “is Mexican-Americans [in Texas] are brought up, even in the first grade, singing the national anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance and all that, and it’s not until the seventh grade that they single us out as Mexicans. And from that point on, you realize you’re not an American. You’re a Mexican, and always will be. The Alamo story takes good, solid, loyal little American kids and it converts them into Mexicans.”I

“A Retired History Professor from Austin” tells me everything I need to know about that particular author.
Protect Americans with my life I will. Other nationalities not at all. Choice is simple actually. Be an American or a target, your choice.
Actually the whole colonization thing started when Moses Austin wished to bring former Spanish citizens BACK to Spanish territory. It is a very interesting story that the revisionist do not want you to know!!!!
Someone stole the Alamo cat.

I do remember that story
Originally Posted by kamo_gari


We've Been Telling the Alamo Story Wrong for Nearly 200 Years. Now It's Time to Correct the Record.


Your ass is gonna get kicked off the facebook page for this.
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Originally Posted by stxhunter
Bull Chit.



Yep.

"Woke" MF'rs.

Might be more than one famous battle over those sacred grounds before it's over...


^^^This^^^
Texas boys, tighten your belts and get ready.
And never say anything will never happen.


Virginia took down statues of Robert E Lee last year!

That blew my mind, Twilight Zone schidt!
If they would have just gone to the basement and gotten pee wee his bike none of the killing would have happened.
Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
Texas boys, tighten your belts and get ready.
And never say anything will never happen.


Virginia took down statues of Robert E Lee last year!

That blew my mind, Twilight Zone schidt!


Yep!
Canadians in Alaska...you mean like Somalis in Minneapolis or Detroit?
I vote we give california back to mexico to make up for it.
Wow! Stereotyping AND condescension in the opening sentence. That's some impressive lefty word-smithing.
Sooner or later people will awaken to this Woke Critical Race Theory BS.

It's simple indoctrination of our youth. Not done all at once but gradually throughout their school days. Clear through college.

Instead of teaching our youth HOW to think, they are taught WHAT to think.

They blindly believe anything they are told.
Originally Posted by mjbgalt
If they would have just gone to the basement and gotten pee wee his bike none of the killing would have happened.


Originally Posted by bruinruin
Wow! Stereotyping AND condescension in the opening sentence. That's some impressive lefty word-smithing.


Yes. Difference being that the colonist WERE following Mexican laws. Truth be known, it was Santa Anna’s centralist govt. that wasnt. They were making laws up as they went along. There certainly wasn’t any mass colonization in the states of Zacatecas or Yucatan! Only open revolt against the same centralist government.
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by bruinruin
Wow! Stereotyping AND condescension in the opening sentence. That's some impressive lefty word-smithing.


Yes. Difference being that the colonist WERE following Mexican laws. Truth be known, it was Santa Anna’s centralist govt. that wasnt. They were making laws up as they went along. There certainly wasn’t any mass colonization in the states of Zacatecas or Yucatan! Only open revolt against the same centralist government.




That's what happened.

But facts be damned.
kamo gari;
Good afternoon to you my friend, I hope the day's been as bright, clear and calm in your part of the world as we have here and that all in your world are well.

It's tough for me to be objective about the Alamo, as for whatever reason from a very young age - perhaps the Disney record of Davy Crockett dying at the Alamo - I have been fascinated with the subject and have read as much as possible about the subject.

Before going further, I'll say that for this Canadian - no Tim Horton's planting, hockey playing in Alaska Canadian either mind you - a trip to the Alamo was a bucket list thing for me personally.

We accomplished that about 4 years ago I want to say it was, though too it might have only been 3. Nonetheless sir, we went there and although my wife isn't as steeped in the lore, we were both very much moved by the event.

I've visited battle sights in a few places in North America and this was definitely different in how it felt to be there.

According to one of the better books I've read on the subject, "Texian Iliad" by Prof. Stephen L. Hardin, there were about 1 in 6 Tejanos in the Army of Texas. That's admittedly not half, but it's not insignificant either in my view.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/91150.Texian_Iliad

As well, when one reads the list of the dead at the Alamo, one sees Tejano names too.

It's only a guess on my part, but I would hazard that many Tejanos such as Juan Segin that might disagree with the authors if they were able to contend with them in person today. It'd be an interesting meeting anyways, that's no guess work on anyone's part. wink

That's just one Canuck's view on things Alamo and early Texas related and worth not even as much as a Tim's Double Double truly, but there it is.

All the best to you all.

Dwayne
Some great points you made there Dewayne !
Santa Anna started out being a staunch constitutionalist. Matter of fact when he became prez of Mexico in 1832 there were big celebrations in San Felipe, Nacogdoches and Velasco. All had large anglo populations. They saw him as a savior. But ol’ Antonion Lopez had other plans.

As I mentioned in the other thread. Vice President Valentin Gomez Fárias was running Mexico.( Santa Anna was drinking and eatin back at his hacienda at Vera Cruz) . Fárias was a constitutionalist and saw to massive reforms concerning the military, the Church, and education. He was well aware of the coup d’état powers that the military had used time and time again.
Long story short, basically the military and the church got together and said that these people do not have the ability to lead themselves. So ol Antonio Lopez steps up and says I better act like the prez again. So for starters he does away with the constitution of 1824 and he bans further immigration to Texas.
Where's birdie ???? smile
Texans claims to have pride in the Alamo but I’ve never seen it first hand.

The surrounding area is a schit hole.
The Mexicans never owned Tejas, it belonged to the Nermernuh, Comanche in our parlance. The Mexicans huddled in Bexar, afraid to stick there noses out of the stockade. Comanche raided at will into Mexico killing and taking livestock. Americans were invited to settle as a buffer against Comanche raids.

We need to be Comanche again, the name comes from the Apache word for “man who tries to kill me all the time”.
Originally Posted by 284LUVR
Where's birdie ???? smile


Holding a cup in front of the Alamo?
Originally Posted by Borchardt
The Mexicans never owned Tejas, it belonged to the Nermernuh, Comanche in our parlance. The Mexicans huddled in Bexar, afraid to stick there noses out of the stockade. Comanche raided at will into Mexico killing and taking livestock. Americans were invited to settle as a buffer against Comanche raids.

We need to be Comanche again, the name comes from the Apache word for “man who tries to kill me all the time”.


I believe they relocated to the west side of Chicago.
Originally Posted by Borchardt
The Mexicans never owned Tejas, it belonged to the Nermernuh, Comanche in our parlance. The Mexicans huddled in Bexar, afraid to stick there noses out of the stockade. Comanche raided at will into Mexico killing and taking livestock. Americans were invited to settle as a buffer against Comanche raids.

We need to be Comanche again, the name comes from the Apache word for “man who tries to kill me all the time”.


Quite true. The Spanish and then, the Mexicans could not stand up against the Comanche. The Comanche were centered in northern Texas up towards present day Austin, but they frequently made raids down to San Antonio. Why do we now have the city of Nuevo Laredo? Because the Comanche burned the town on the n. side of the river, Laredo, to the ground so the Spanish built Nuevo Laredo, hoping the river would give some protection from the Indian raids.

The Spanish would not let the citizens have firearms, these were kept in a central armory, and they were antiques anyway. So the incessant Comanche raids were devastating, they kidnapped young Spanish boys and girls and drafted them in to the Comanche nation and made full fledged Indians of them. They slaughtered and tortured adult Spanish, they made an art form of raping adult Spanish women, and they stole lots of cattle and especially, horses.

The Mexicans only admitted the Anglos into central Texas in the hope that these Gringos could fight off the incessant Comanche raids.
One of the liberal policies of the constitution of 1824 was the creation of states in Mexico. Before that they had been provinces with a local leader but basically all was run by Mexico city. After states were created, they were given some manner of home rule, like in the USA. Texas was a joint state with Coahuila.

All government paperwork from Texas had to be taken to Saltillo for approval. Land grants and surveys had to be recorded there. All manner of official paperwork had to be sent and recorded there. In return permission for all manner of public works, etc had to be put on hold until the governor gave his approval. Major stumbling block. The alcaldes and empresarios saw the need for Texas being its own state w/o having to sent stuff all way to Saltillo and wait months for a reply.

Under mexican law Texas did not have the necessary population numbers to be a mexican state. (Ok anyone see where this is going?). Stephen Austin was thrown in prison in Mexico City ( remember he’s a Mexican citizen, following Mexican law) while trying to negotiate for Texas Statehood.
My first exposure to Texas history started in the 3rd grade when I lived in the Rio Grande Valley.
This isn't the 1st time the Alamo story revision has been tried, and I'm sure it won't be the last time.
No matter how many times the Alamo story is changed one fact will always stand.
Thirteen days of glory for 186 men against over 4,000. That is the essence of of it.
REMEMBER THE ALAMO
“Them damn Mexicans ain’t got no bitch comin! By God we stole Texas from ‘em fair and square and aint nuthin they gonna do bout it!”

Out of a Texas state legislators mouth!!
Originally Posted by TCK
My first exposure to Texas history started in the 3rd grade when I lived in the Rio Grande Valley.
This isn't the 1st time the Alamo story revision has been tried, and I'm sure it won't be the last time.
No matter how many times the Alamo story is changed one fact will always stand.
Thirteen days of glory for 186 men against over 4,000. That is the essence of of it.
REMEMBER THE ALAMO

And one of my ancestors.
Several of you need to realize that The Comanches are relative newcomers to the area. While not necessarily stangers to the area, they really didn’t establish a strong foothold in the Edwards plateau area until almost 1760.

The reason that the Spanish did not populate any further north ( not referring to Spanish East Texas. It had it’s own issues) was due to several reasons. One being their rampant inefficiency at getting things done and the bureaucracy that went with it. Another being personal rivalries and greed, and another just bad luck.

A prime example are the San Xavier missions in present western Milam county texas. 3 missions when finally established ( took ten years to receive kings approval) so they were running without royal charter. And just as things Were almost going, boom! Drought! The san Gabriel river dried completely up!!! Just an example.
The only difference is these days the Mexican Army is run by drug cartels, and Mexico is just as corrupt and dangerous as it was then. Ask the old original Spanish families living in Texas if they are sad about being in the US and see how many want to be part of Mexico.
Bryan Burrough (born August 13, 1961 in Tennessee) is an American author and correspondent for Vanity Fair

Jason Stanford was the communications director for Austin Mayor Steve Adler. Previously, he was a Democratic strategist, commentator and author based in Washington, D.C.[2][3][4] He is a syndicated columnist with Cagle Cartoons and a regular contributor to both the Austin American-Statesman.[5][6]

Stanford co-authored Adios Mofo: Why Rick Perry Will Make America Miss George W. Bush in 2011 with James Moore.[7][8][9] He has also written for Texas Monthly and the Texas Tribune.[10][11]

Stanford is the founder of Stanford Caskey, a political research and crisis communications firm based in Austin, Texas and Chicago, Illinois.[12][13]
I applaud the work of these historians. It has long been known in knowledgeable circles that many of Texas' Founding Fathers were slavers, and how appropriate to have this discussion on the eve of the day we celebrate when freedom finally came to all Texans.
Originally Posted by reivertom
The only difference is these days the Mexican Army is run by drug cartels, and Mexico is just as corrupt and dangerous as it was then. Ask the old original Spanish families living in Texas if they are sad about being in the US and see how many want to be part of Mexico.


Vice President Fárias most ardent supporter was Lorenzo de Zavala!

https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/zavala-lorenzo-de
Originally Posted by Eric308
I applaud the work of these historians. It has long been known in knowledgeable circles that many of Texas' Founding Fathers were slavers, and how appropriate to have this discussion on the eve of the day we celebrate when freedom finally came to all Texans.


Yes like Lorenzo de Zavala, Juan Seguin, and Jose Antonio Navarro!!! All founding Fathers of Texas!!!
When did good men quit looking at the "other side" - and saying "You LOST!" ???
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Bryan Burrough (born August 13, 1961 in Tennessee) is an American author and correspondent for Vanity Fair

Jason Stanford was the communications director for Austin Mayor Steve Adler. Previously, he was a Democratic strategist, commentator and author based in Washington, D.C.[2][3][4] He is a syndicated columnist with Cagle Cartoons and a regular contributor to both the Austin American-Statesman.[5][6]

Stanford co-authored Adios Mofo: Why Rick Perry Will Make America Miss George W. Bush in 2011 with James Moore.[7][8][9] He has also written for Texas Monthly and the Texas Tribune.[10][11]

Stanford is the founder of Stanford Caskey, a political research and crisis communications firm based in Austin, Texas and Chicago, Illinois.[12][13]


Figures Commie Socialist Libertard DemoRat’s.
Take note of her lawyer!!!

Celia Allen
Celia Allen, an enslaved woman at San Felipe de Austin, assisted business partners Laughlin McLaughlin and John M. Allen at their outdoor brick bake oven. McLaughlin oversaw the duties of the brick oven serving as baker, and Celia assisted him in baking items such as pilot bread (or hardtack), wheat bread, corn bread and cakes.

In 1832, McLaughlin and Allen ended their business partnership over Allen’s desire to manumit, or free, Celia. In that year, Allen signed an act of manumission for Celia and her children before Alcalde Horatio Chriesman. McLaughlin refused to recognize the manumission and in 1833, Celia retained San Felipe resident lawyer William Barret Travis to defend her. After legally winning her freedom, Celia and her children — Ann, George and Sam — took the last name Allen.

In 1836, as the Texans retreated from San Felipe ahead of the advancing Mexican Army, Mexican soldiers took control of the brick bake oven, placing their cannons behind it and punching holes to make openings, or embrasures, for their cannons. Mexican soldiers fired at the Texans on the opposite side of the Brazos River while Santa Anna debated options to cross the river. According to family lore, Celia and her children met Santa Anna during the Mexican occupation of San Felipe.

Celia Allen died in 1842 and is buried in the old cemetery at San Felipe de Austin.
If you did not want Mexicans to take over, why did you let them in?
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Take note of her lawyer!!!

Celia Allen
Celia Allen, an enslaved woman at San Felipe de Austin, assisted business partners Laughlin McLaughlin and John M. Allen at their outdoor brick bake oven. McLaughlin oversaw the duties of the brick oven serving as baker, and Celia assisted him in baking items such as pilot bread (or hardtack), wheat bread, corn bread and cakes.

In 1832, McLaughlin and Allen ended their business partnership over Allen’s desire to manumit, or free, Celia. In that year, Allen signed an act of manumission for Celia and her children before Alcalde Horatio Chriesman. McLaughlin refused to recognize the manumission and in 1833, Celia retained San Felipe resident lawyer William Barret Travis to defend her. After legally winning her freedom, Celia and her children — Ann, George and Sam — took the last name Allen.

In 1836, as the Texans retreated from San Felipe ahead of the advancing Mexican Army, Mexican soldiers took control of the brick bake oven, placing their cannons behind it and punching holes to make openings, or embrasures, for their cannons. Mexican soldiers fired at the Texans on the opposite side of the Brazos River while Santa Anna debated options to cross the river. According to family lore, Celia and her children met Santa Anna during the Mexican occupation of San Felipe.

Celia Allen died in 1842 and is buried in the old cemetery at San Felipe de Austin.


Bob, are they’re Historic Markers or any historical structures left of San Felipe de Austin ? I’ve never been there.
Funny you should ask Neal!

Ok San Felipe was burned to the ground during the runaway scrape.

But as of late the Texas Historical Commission has dumped a buttload of money into the place. In 2018 they opened a new museum there and this September they will have the grand opening of the newly reconstructed city block as it was before the conflagration. There will be the Farmer Hotel and restaurant complete with bricked basement ( as mention in the de la Peña diary of his visit there in 1834). The school, printers shop, courthouse, and several small homes. All built out of locally available lumber and such. Celia’s brick oven is there too!

This recreation is just away from the original townsite by a few 100 yds or so.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Those Mexicans were just as bad as the Indians. Turn your back on them and the next thing you know they try to steal your land.
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Funny you should ask Neal!

Ok San Felipe was burned to the ground during the runaway scrape.

But as of late the Texas Historical Commission has dumped a buttload of money into the place. In 2018 they opened a new museum there and this September they will have the grand opening of the newly reconstructed city block as it was before the conflagration. There will be the Farmer Hotel and restaurant complete with bricked basement ( as mention in the de la Peña diary of his visit there in 1834). The school, printers shop, courthouse, and several small homes. All built out of locally available lumber and such. Celia’s brick oven is there too!

This recreation is just away from the original townsite by a few 100 yds or so.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Thanks! I’ll have to check it out sometime.
They also have put in a saw pit. But I’m staying the hell away from that death trap!!!
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
They also have put in a saw pit. But I’m staying the hell away from that death trap!!!


LOL
If you can't defend your land you lose it, Mexico revisionists.

"War between the United States and Mexico over the annexation of Texas seemed imminent, and in the spring of 1845 Frémont headed a third expedition west, ostensively to explore the Great Basin and Pacific coast but also with secret instructions for action in case of war. Upon his arrival in southern California at the end of the year, he and his armed party defied Mexican authorities before backing down and heading north into southern Oregon. He and his group soon returned south (early May 1846) after he received a dispatch (the contents of which are still unknown) from a confidential messenger from Washington, D.C. Back in California, Frémont threw his support behind a small group of dissident American settlers near Sonoma who had started an unofficial uprising and had established the short-lived Bear Flag Republic. News of the U.S. declaration of war with Mexico soon reached California, and Frémont was appointed by Commodore Robert F. Stockton as major of a battalion there that consisted mostly of American volunteers. Frémont and Stockton completed the conquest of the future 31st state.

Meanwhile, General Stephen Watts Kearny entered California from the southeast with orders to establish a government. This led to a conflict of authority in which Frémont involved himself after accepting California’s capitulation from Mexican officials at Cahuenga Pass, near Los Angeles. Stockton had appointed Frémont military governor of California, but Kearny would not recognize the appointment. Frémont nonetheless served as governor for two months, at which time Kearny had him arrested after having received confirmation of his own authority. Frémont was returned to Washington, D.C., and, in 1847–48, court-martialed for mutiny, disobedience, and conduct prejudicial to military discipline. He was sentenced to dismissal from the army. Although his penalty was set aside by President James K. Polk, Frémont, bitter about the ordeal, resigned from the army. Through it all he retained the high regard of the general public."
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
"Bryan Burrough (born August 13, 1961 in Tennessee) is an American author and correspondent for Vanity Fair ...

Jason Stanford ... "


Huh uh. Bryan Burrough was born in Temple, Texas, and raised there. Although I do not know Bryan, I've known his father, John "Mac" Burrough since 1955 when we were in the same fraternity at the Univ. of Arkansas. "Mac" and my brother are best of friends to this day. My brother and his wife were invited to Bryan's wedding in Chicago years ago and attended. I've known his mother since after Bryan's father and mother were married after "Mac" was discharged from the Army as a Capt. They have lived in Temple, Texas, since before Bryan was born where "Mac" became president of a couple of banks there.

Bryan has had a successful career as a journalist and has written several successful books which were made into movies, Barbarians At The Gate, Public Enemies, and Wall Street.

I know that Bryan's father,"Mac," is not a liberal. Don't know what happened to Bryan. Maybe he just fell in with "bad company" back East. wink

L.W.
Originally Posted by Leanwolf
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
"Bryan Burrough (born August 13, 1961 in Tennessee) is an American author and correspondent for Vanity Fair ...

Jason Stanford ... "


Huh uh. Bryan Burrough was born in Temple, Texas, and raised there. Although I do not know Bryan, I've known his father, John "Mac" Burrough since 1955 when we were in the same fraternity at the Univ. of Arkansas. "Mac" and my brother are best of friends to this day. My brother and his wife were invited to Bryan's wedding in Chicago years ago and attended. I've known his mother since after Bryan's father and mother were married after "Mac" was discharged from the Army as a Capt. They have lived in Temple, Texas, since before Bryan was born where "Mac" became president of a couple of banks there.

Bryan has had a successful career as a journalist and has written several successful books which were made into movies, Barbarians At The Gate, Public Enemies, and Wall Street.

I know that Bryan's father,"Mac," is not a liberal. Don't know what happened to Bryan. Maybe he just fell in with "bad company" back East. wink

L.W.


Interesting LW !
I am with you.

BS!!!
fremont, by the way, has a house in prescott, az., now at a museum.
So many falsehoods it’s hard to know where to begin.

No, the Alamo defenders weren’t Saints, yes, many probably died fighting outside the walls while trying to escape. A handful probably surrendered at the very end when offered clemency by a merciful and well-meaning Mexican officer who was outraged by Santa Anna’s summary execution of these men.

Yes, as is true of most every war, both sides were backed by powerful financial interests.

Santa Anna butchered far more of his own people than he ever did Texians, when he tried to apply that same tyranny to Texas he got whupped.

When the famous Travis letter was on display at the Alamo some years back I saw Texans of all skin colors bringing their kids, lined up hours to see it (I was shocked, I was expecting just the Gettysburg Old White guy crowd).

This book of course is part of the ongoing attempt to divide and conquer the US.

It is my belief, and I can safely say Birdy is of the same opinion, that after interacting as a living history interpreter with ALL races and ethnic groups at a number of historic sights, these people are ALL equally interested in the story that we are there to tell.

Regardless of who won or lost. Lived or died.
Have to agree with Bird and others on that revisionist tale as a total farce. Sure some Texans did have slaves as did everyone in the south.

Anyway Texas was populated by people of all colors and Tejanos were among those that fought for independence. Sure Texas and America in general have a checkered past but if you want to really see some bad stuff study European History. Politics should be kept out of History.
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Take note of her lawyer!!!

Celia Allen
Celia Allen, an enslaved woman at San Felipe de Austin, assisted business partners Laughlin McLaughlin and John M. Allen at their outdoor brick bake oven. McLaughlin oversaw the duties of the brick oven serving as baker, and Celia assisted him in baking items such as pilot bread (or hardtack), wheat bread, corn bread and cakes.

In 1832, McLaughlin and Allen ended their business partnership over Allen’s desire to manumit, or free, Celia. In that year, Allen signed an act of manumission for Celia and her children before Alcalde Horatio Chriesman. McLaughlin refused to recognize the manumission and in 1833, Celia retained San Felipe resident lawyer William Barret Travis to defend her. After legally winning her freedom, Celia and her children — Ann, George and Sam — took the last name Allen.

In 1836, as the Texans retreated from San Felipe ahead of the advancing Mexican Army, Mexican soldiers took control of the brick bake oven, placing their cannons behind it and punching holes to make openings, or embrasures, for their cannons. Mexican soldiers fired at the Texans on the opposite side of the Brazos River while Santa Anna debated options to cross the river. According to family lore, Celia and her children met Santa Anna during the Mexican occupation of San Felipe.

Celia Allen died in 1842 and is buried in the old cemetery at San Felipe de Austin.


I have spent a lot of time at the San Felipe de Austin site. There is a little truck stop, Park Place Travel Plaza right there on I 10 and I spent the night there many times. I used to walk over to the historical site. Of course the original was burned by the Mexicans during the war but the re creation is fascinating, especially since I am a log cabin builder. The idea that Austin was walking those streets, and this town was the original capitol of Texas.
Also, I believe that the famous letter from Travis was sent to this town.
Simon, the Mexicans didn’t burn San Felipe. The Texians did as part of their scorched earth policy. By the time the first Mexican troops arrived the little town was pretty much gone. Moseley Baker and the militia were across the Brazos on the east bank. Ready to perform a rear guard action on the evacuating townsfolk. Which they did.

Burned the ferry and engaged those first troop arrivals from the east bank.
The Texans burned it for the scorched earth. That makes sense.
Whatever the truth is we're not giving it back. 'nuff said.
Originally Posted by simonkenton7
The Texans burned it for the scorched earth. That makes sense.


Yes, another interesting fact that will probably not be mentioned in the forthcoming book is during the Fredonian rebellion (Haydon Edwards affair, Nacogdoches) in 1827, the militia of San Felipe was called out. Their captain Horatio Chrisman, on the orders of Empresario Austin marched with a detatchment of Mexican Infantry to put down this attempt at revolution against the Mexican govt.
For anyone wanting to read up on the topic, Steven L. Hardin’s work, “Texian Iliad” is an excellent place to start, an objective look at the whole war, good and bad....

https://www.abebooks.com/Texian-Ili...o4a2h8QIViLLICh0yJgBcEAQYASABEgLEfPD_BwE
“The way I explain it,” says Andres Tijerina, a retired history professor in Austin, “is Mexican-Americans [in Texas] are brought up, even in the first grade, singing the national anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance and all that, and it’s not until the seventh grade that they single us out as Mexicans. And from that point on, you realize you’re not an American. You’re a Mexican, and always will be. The Alamo story takes good, solid, loyal little American kids and it converts them into Mexicans.”

Professor in Austin? You know it has to be correct. The loyal little American kids are converted by guys like this who so want to be woke.

Jim
Originally Posted by texasbatman
“The way I explain it,” says Andres Tijerina, a retired history professor in Austin, “is Mexican-Americans [in Texas] are brought up, even in the first grade, singing the national anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance and all that, and it’s not until the seventh grade that they single us out as Mexicans. And from that point on, you realize you’re not an American. You’re a Mexican, and always will be. The Alamo story takes good, solid, loyal little American kids and it converts them into Mexicans.”

Professor in Austin? You know it has to be correct. The loyal little American kids are converted by guys like this who so want to be woke.

Jim


Right Jim! Right you are!! Hell even I learned who Jose Francisco Ruiz, Jose Antonio Navarro, Lorenzo de Zavala, and Juan Seguin were when I was in the seventh grade (back during the Pléistocènes).
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