First off I am not anti vax. I have been vaccinated for all kinds of stuff.

What the issue is with this covid vaccine for me is that we do not know much about it and especially about it's long term effects. We cannot rely on the statistics on side effects because there has not been a long term study done on the vaccine. It was rushed to implementation. The death rate directly attributed to covid is difficult to assess because most deaths are to the old and they have other health issues that may be the real cause of death. Statistics are not trust worthy because of lack of definition on what constitutes a covid death with a list of other contributing health issues.

The health officials have not explained exactly how the vaccine establishes in the body and it's effect on altering DNA, if any. How does it effect the organs, blood, lymph nodes muscles and brain? Is protection/issues passed down to offspring?

Every day the lawyers are doing ads to join lawsuits on drugs previously approved by the FDA that have shown over time to have harmful effects. This vaccine is protected from lawsuits. .Why would that be if it is proven safe? Is that because the vaccine manufacturers do not know if it is safe long term and would not of brought this vaccine to market without that protection?

What is the truth on ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine? Other countries have touted it's effectiveness. Why has our government not made a conclusive statement on it's usefulness in any stage of treatment?

Fear is not a substitute for rational thought and analysis. The scare tactics, bullying, threats and attempts to force something unproven long term make me very suspicious of this particular vaccine.

Another reason to not trust the vaccine is biden's lack of interest in finding out exactly how this virus came to be. Why would our government not push hard on the find the genesis of the virus? Is our government complicit in it's creation?

Why has social media suppressed information regarding questions on all aspects of this virus and vaccine?

Why would one trust a government and media that has repeatedly lied to it's citizenry on so many issues?

Without answers to these and many other questions, is it wise to take the jab?

The simple fact that congress gave the pharms a pass on liability scares me enough to stay away.

Damn right

Do what your doctor recommends.

Or find a doctor that does what you recommend.

Nicely put, too bad we're vilified just because we question things that just don't add up

We can not trust anyone anymore. The truth is, there is no truth!!!

If the fact that it was rushed to market and the manufacturers can't be held liable wasn't enough to make a guy leery, then the incredible lengths that governments are going to to push the jab, should.

Truth.

Biden is for it, that cunt hasn't been right about anything in his life.

Facts.

BTW, I heard today that Sydney (?) Is going on lockdown. How are you Aussies feeling about this, JSTUART?

Not a problem, like Melbourne Sydney is not really part of Australia, and when we figure out how to affix an outboard to both we shall gift them to New Zealand.

Sounds like the down under versions of California and New England.

All the hippie types that used to say "Question authority" are now the ones commanding "Must accept vaccine".

Truth

I dont care who is vaccinated or who is not, Why do people feel the need to broadcast if they do or dont?

Get in the car. We are moving your family east. It is mandated by the government.

Men and the boys in this one, women and girls line up over there.

When you get there, everyone will have a warm shower...

Answers to some of these questions have been published and available for over a year.

1 Every virus invades the cells of your body with its own RNA and causes the cells to replicate the virus. This is how a virus reproduces. It makes the host replicate copies, which often kills the host cell.

This is also how the RNA type vaccines work. The shot introduces a measured amount of RNA which invades cells and causes those cells to reproduce the "S spike protein". The cells do not produce a live, or viable virus. They only produce the "S spike protein" portion of the virus in quantities far less than would be introduced by an actual Covid infection.

The "S spike protein" is injurious to some cells in the body. The body's immune system learns to recognize this injurious protein and then attacks any virus with that protein as part of its structure.

Now, since humans are a biological entity, and we did not come off of an assembly line with identical parts and systems, this process is more effective in some individuals, and more hazardous to some individuals than others.

The most reliable information reports that these vaccines are 95% to 96% efficacious in preventing C-19 infections with the other 5% suffering much less severe symptoms than their nonvaccinated counterparts.

Some are sensitive enough to the "S spike protein or their immune systems so ineffective that they do become sick from the vaccine injection and even possibly die. Death occurs in about 2/1000 of a percent of those vaccinated.

But consider if a person is this sensitive to the amall amount of "S spike protein" delivered by the mechanism of the shot, what would a full blown viral infection likely do?

2 how does the vaccine affect organs and tissues?
We have people running around with the vax for well over six months? But honestly there is no valid proof of long term safety.

3 Is protection passed down to offspring?
Absolutely not. No more so than becoming immune to any other virus via infection or inoculation.

Your chromosomal DNA is not altered by the vaccine. Just as your inheritable DNA is not altered by infection with any virus.

This is especially true of females, as the eggs are formed and stored in the ovaries before the girl is even born.

Unless those chromosomes are damaged after formation (such as by Chemo, or radiation) all of the female's contributions to heredity are determined before she is born.

If the vaccination works, why do the vaccinated care so much about those who aren’t?

Yep, that should be more than enough reason all by itself.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this too...

What gets me is rather than producing data and explaining the risks and why it's a good idea, they threaten, vilify and push mandates. All we're doing is questioning if it's a good idea to do and if the benefits outweigh the risks yet we're meet with hostility and contempt. Even more of a red flag.



There must be a lot of people out there who have never been in an abusive relationship.....

One of many reasons I am never going to take any kind of vaccine regardless is this reasoning.
How can I trust strangers to inject me with known harmful substances who have harmed many in the past?
Why should I start trusting the dude in the creeper van just because he has wears blue scrubs, says , Trust me...
What's in the hypodermic doc?

"You aren't allowed to know," he responds.

Exhibit #1

https://www.brighteon.com/7df7514a-982b-454c-b0fe-0d14ac799b2a

Exhibit #2

Dr. Butar testimony
https://www.brighteon.com/3ad2566e-0a3a-4f98-9ef1-b21213218b80

Just another foreign fug that hasn't a clue beyond what the TV tells him but likes to run his mouth about America anyway.

Exhibit # 3

Event 201

https://www.brighteon.com/1593084f-2679-4300-b9ab-bb0f1e682652

Hey Pastor Stevie,

How much are you worth ?

YouTube videos, scalping CD’s, and selling plasma, nets you what a year?

Also, why do you have a shîtty little room at a dying mall in Tempe for a church ?

🦫

Down here we've had more deaths this year from the vaccine (87) than from the virus (5) but they want us to get the jab anyway - our Prime Minister says the death rate from the vaccine is acceptable considering the benefits it provides - WTF? So it appears that there must be an acceptable death rate figure that they are working to, but I doubt it. If they were really doing some proper analysis they might find that the death rate for those under a certain age is acceptable and they might only need to consider isolation protection arrangements for the elderly and health compromised.

Our COVID death rate is heavily suppressed by lock-downs - financial damage to businesses is of no consequence to those leading our country apparently.

This is not unique to the Covid vaccines. It has been this way since 1988. Do you feel the same about the Shingles vaccine or any others that have been brought to market since 1988?

This is not to be construed as saying you need to get the Covid vaccines that is your choice, but the liability reason is that you are using is not specific to these.

$1 a link?
More? Less? Kinda curious… 🧐

Yes it is. Shingles vaccinations are FDA approved. No covid "vaccine" has FDA approval.

Those are two separate issues. The liability issue isn't unique, but you say it does apply since there isn't full FDA approval which is somewhat perplexing since they don't apply to each other. That leads me to the next question and comment. If any of the Covid vaccines reach full approval instead of the emergency use approval would that change your opinion? You do realize that this isn't the first use of emergency approval for a vaccine. Right?

Haven't you heard?
Google who owns youtube bans information that's not approved by big pharma. Censors have led to new platforms. This one has no censorship and is the biggest platform for vax info.

🦫

When pharmaceutical companies accept full liability for the safety and efficacy of their vaccines I'll reconsider.

But this planned pandemic has been politicized since day one and I ain't buying what this current marxist government is selling.

I completely agree with your second sentence, but your first sentence rules out all vaccines for you. Even the ones with full FDA approval that have been made available since 1988. Am I reading you correctly?

Just another woke azz liberal defending democrats.

Time to make a decision. Tough stuff...

Copy.

I can promise you they wouldn't mind us being dead. So I can only suppose why they are so upset.

More info here:

https://nojabforme.info/

https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

The liability protection for those other vaccines kicks in once they pass the trials and get approved by the FDA. This is the first jab that not the protection before the approval.

Then go for it.
Knock yourself out.

Close, but again this is not unique to the Covid vaccines. You are referring to the PREP Act which has been in effect since 2005. This covers EUAs and other emergency health issues. None of it is unique to the Covid vaccines.

From another blatant lier, yellow coward internet hero call for backup chickenshit cop.

As LE you are an embarrassment to yourself, your community, and America.

Sounds like there was no reason for a release of liability then.....

There wasn't any release of liability beyond what was already in place between the two acts.

https://vaccineimpact.com/2020/prep...-in-u-s-history-will-martial-law-follow/

“The Act did create a CounterMeasures Compensation Fund and mechanism to award damages to those who suffered injury or death by any of the declared countermeasures by the Secretary of HHS.”

“We are witnessing the PREP Act in action for the first time nationwide since its passage in 2005.

No one really knows the extent of the law and how it will affect everyone in the United States, short term and long term. Most of the media has not even discussed the details of the PREP Act and how it will affect the general public.”

“CounterMeasures Injury Compensation Program

In 2010, President Obama signed into law the CounterMeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP) to enhance the existing PREP Act compensation function.

The CICP is administered directly by the Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA). This federal agency is also tasked with the administration of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP) or Vaccine Court.

Over the course of the last couple of years, I have contacted HRSA officials to discuss some issues in the NVICP. I can usually get someone to talk with me via a phone call. When the topic turns to CICP, the tone changes and the official now states, “send me an email and I will review it.”

The CICP is very problematic in so many ways.

First, the statute of limitations is only one (1) year versus three (3) years for injury in the NVICP.

Second, the Program does not reimburse any medical expert fees or attorney fees. You are on your own, just filling out a petition form and submitting to HRSA.

Third, there is no appeals process within a court system. Can’t appeal the decision to the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals nor to the US Supreme Court.

Fourth, all decisions are NOT disclosed, so they are not subject to public inspection. “

The fact they wish to depopulate the earth and young and old are dying from the shot raises lots of questions. Along with HCQ and Ivermectin are cures fauci knew about in 2005.

Good one !

((New person here ; poking around ))

Are the other vaccines brought to market since ‘88 FDA approved and thoroughly tested or are they “authorized” for use before being thoroughly tested by reason of “emergency”?

100% this! Why aren't we allowed to question it and why is everything people are posting on social media with testimonials of problems, concerns and doubts being censored? Why are alternative treatments being vilified and censored?
These are the biggest red flags to me.

This is the first time that the PREP Act covered a vaccination for nationwide distribution, but not the first time the PREP Act covered a vaccine with EUA. It was used for Ebola for example in 2015 in the areas affected because it wasn't nationwide, but wasn't fully FDA approved until 2019.

There are plenty of other reasons for people to be hesitant or against taking these Covid vaccines that are unknown like potential longterm side effects. The liability immunity is a known issue that is not unique to the Covid vaccines. That can be your excuse for not getting it, but it isn't limited just to the Covid vaccines which is my point.

Everyone has their reasons for getting or not getting them and it is a personal choice. No one should be forced to get it or any other vaccine for that matter. Just know that the liability immunity extends to all of them.

The vast majority are, but not all such as the Ebola vaccine that I mentioned in my prior post. There have been a few vaccines that have been "thoroughly tested" and authorized without the EUA that have been pulled off the market after full authorization. Plasma derived Hepatitis B and Rotoshield for rotavirus come to mind.

Until PREP is enacted on each individual basis, the pharmaceuticals are liable. And because they didn’t/couldn’t do due diligence (ie long term studies, full trials) they were open to liability just as they are with every drug they bring to market.

The pharmaceuticals absolutely received immunity from liability.

PREP does have a remedy for liability. (Even if it is through the same gvt agency HHS. And is the final authority on remedy. Yeah no conflict of interest)

There are plenty of reasons not to get the jab.
I have no opinion on others’ choice to get or refuse other than the choice should be theirs alone.

This is it in a nutshell. If it was all up and up and it worked, they wouldn't have to lie to us over and over. They have politicized just about everything and they have no credibility.

It's about massive population reduction.

If I had a neighbor that didn't like me and wanted me dead I wouldn't eat or drink anything he brought over. I sure wouldn't accept ''medicine'' from him. That is where I am with this Gates/Faucci ''vaccine''.
It may be harmless but I don't trust the source.

I never said they didn't receive immunity. I only stated it wasn't unique for the Covid vaccines under the EUA. The only thing that was the first for the Covid vaccines was that it was utilized nationwide which makes sense vs the Ebola example because Ebola wasn't a nationwide issue.

It is amazing that Obama failed to import the Ebola epidemic into the USA. We did not quarantine those countries and even sent a bunch of soldiers over there to help out.

Just like "conspiracy theory" is a PSYOP, so is pegging all push back against Fluoridated public water with lunacy. The general acceptance of Fluoridated municipal water is a necessity because Fluoride is an unavoidable toxic byproduct of big industry that would otherwise need to be halted, since disposing of it safely otherwise would be economically unfeasible. Massive dilution into municipal drinking water nationwide (under the cover of being a benefit to dental health) is, therefore, the only feasible alternative. Thus the campaign to peg its opposition with nuttiness, such as we see in this clip. It's a PSYOP. There are many PSYOPs running concurrently. They are deemed necessary for the "greater good."

I'm 57 and I got the vaccine, for me it's a roll of the dice. I'm active outdoors and my primary fear is the potential long term health implications of catching the virus and dealing with lung issues, fatigue and other aliments that have been reported. I have not encouraged my three sons, all in their 20s, to get the vaccine, it's really up to them. I don't plan on having any more children but they all do and they are young so the implications are different for them. My 81 year old mother refuses to get the vaccine and her reasoning is 1) it came from a lab in China, 2) she doesn't know what's in it and 3) she doesn't trust the government. I say to her it doesn't matter where it came from, it's here, we don't know what's in most of the drugs we take but we can find out if we really care and I also don't trust the government but every government on the planet is encouraging their citizens to get vaccinated. The younger you are, the more you may have to loose with the vaccine. For my mother at 81, what does she possibly have to lose compared to what she may face with the virus. I understand it's a crap shoot at this point but what we have to loose is mostly related to our age and health. For me, I'm 51/49 % for so I got the vaccine, I'm willing to take the risk to maintain a somewhat normal lifestyle with travel and activity outside my home. My mother is betting against the casino and I've got to find a way to educate her on the odds. I understand it's a personal decision for everyone but the implications of being wrong can be severe.

I agree and the governmental overreach with the Covid is borderline if not criminal. Spain's supreme court ruled this month that their lockdowns were unconstitutional. Don't know what will happen with that, but at least one court recognized the overreach.

Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey said people are “supposed to have common sense” as she unloaded on unvaccinated people for driving coronavirus outbreaks and hospitalizations in her state.

“It’s time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It’s the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down,” she said at a Birmingham event Thursday night that aired by the CBS WIAT affiliate.

Only about a third of Alabama’s population is fully vaccinated against COVID-19, putting it worst in the nation alongside Mississippi.


About 49% of the U.S. population is vaccinated. The rates for Alabama and Mississippi are around 34%.

The top reasons people give for not getting the shot include fearing the vaccine side effects are worse than COVID-19 and not trusting the vaccine because it only as “emergency approval” from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration

Ms. Ivey said she doesn’t understand why people would want to “mess around with temporary stuff” when the vaccine is the most long-lasting tool for wrangling the virus.

She said nearly all of the recent hospitalizations are among unvaccinated persons and deaths are “certainly” occurring among those who’ve balked at the shots.

“These folks are choosing a horrible lifestyle of self-inflicted pain. Y’all, we’ve got to get folks to take the shot. The vaccine is the greatest weapon we have to fight COVID, the data proves it,” Ms. Ivey said, noting she took the vaccine in December.

Underscoring her exasperation, she didn’t know what to tell a reporter who asked about the best way to get people off the sidelines.

“I don’t know, you tell me,” she said.

Ms. Ivey signed a bill in May that prohibits businesses and other institutions in Alabama from requiring “vaccine passports” that verify the immunization status of people as a condition for entry or services.

So just what were you implying here?
The covid vaccines received liability release under 2005 PERP Act that had to be enacted for this vaccine . Your statement implies it was covered under H.R.5546 - National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 signed by Reagan in 1988.

The liability issue is a valid issue for one to choose not to receive the jab.

It is pretty simple. The people that are claiming that their reason for not getting the vaccines due to the lack of liability is a valid reason, but it is not unique to the Covid vaccine. Don't act like something special was passed through congress to absolve liability for the Covid vaccine because it wasn't. These laws already existed and have been utilized in the past even under the PREP Act for EUA.

I have already stated it was a valid reason for someone to claim if that is what they are hanging their hat on. I don't have an issue with that which I made clear. Why is it so hard for you to understand? What I have also stated is that it isn't unique to the Covid vaccines and if the liability issue is a no go for someone then I asked the question is that what they apply to other vaccines also or not. A person's reasons are their own, but it should be made clear that there weren't any new legislation passed to absolve liability that already exists. It appears that many people didn't know that.

Everything is special the first time....so it is unique
Hence the first link I posted
We are witnessing the PREP Act in action for the first time nationwide since its passage in 2005.

No one really knows the extent of the law and how it will affect everyone in the United States, short term and long term. Most of the media has not even discussed the details of the PREP Act and how it will affect the general public.”

I’d just add that in addition to us not knowing the short and long term effects from the law, we should add the same questions about the vaccine

Yes, I stated that it was the first time it was used nationwide due to the spread of Covid nationwide as opposed to Ebola that was not. That should seem obvious to most.
You are parsing this down to a point that it becomes pointless. Every application of any existing law for the first time would be unique. My point that you keep trying to move away from is that there were no unique laws passed by congress for the Covid vaccines to absolve liability to the pharmaceutical companies.

I turned 70 in January and I'm diabetic. I had Covid-19 last year in November, my wife also. My mother which resides in a nursing home also contracted Covid-19. We all recovered without hospitalization and none of us have any lasting effects. My brother is 2 years younger and has asthma had Covid-19, he needed breathing treatments but no hospitalization and no lingering effects.


My mother took the vaccine. My wife and I will not and my brother did not

No it’s not pointless. You said originally that this vaccine was covered under The 1988 Act. It is not.

It is only covered under 2005 PERP ACT. There is a huge difference.

it was fast tracked w/o due diligence. So unless given protection status under PERP the pharmaceuticals would had been liable. And that’s because the drug isn’t vetted properly.

Very true, and thanks for posting this.

The sentiment I keep reading in this forum, and hearing from the TeeVee and real life people in the ER and on the streets is that 1) they know less actual science than a kid in 10th grade biology class knows, but 2) the minuscule knowledge they DO have makes them skeptics of the SARS-CoV2 vaccine. In other words, “I know almost nothing, but I think my judgment on this so solid.”

There has been ample information on how the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA vaccine works for at least the past 6 months, in scholarly articles for those who have the science background for it, and in various popular science press articles that explain it at a level anyone with a 9th grade education can understand. Yet people still spout nonsense that could have been dispelled by reading such articles at any time.

Rant off.




Well, we can’t say with 100% certainty what the long term effects of the CoV2 vaccines are gonna be in 2 or 5 or 10 years, cuz we ain’t there yet and prognosticating almost always makes a person look foolish when all the folks with perfect hindsight give bent to their spleen at a comfortable remove.

But that doesn’t tell the whole story.

MRNA vaccine technology was being rapidly developed in molecular biology labs at universities all over the world whe. I was still in grad school, back in the 1980’s. This isn’t “new” stuff. Once the basic biochemistry was worked out, the template for these vaccines was readily established, and virtually all mRNA vaccines today follow this same template. The beauty of this is that a vaccine for a new virus can be developed fairly quickly by plugging the genetic code for the new virus into the existing mRNA template. This is thousands, maybe millions of times faster and simpler than developing a vaccine by the old methods from the mid20th century.

The first mRNA vaccines were being tested in labs by the mid-90’s. They were trialed for veterinary use by the late 90’s, and some have been in use in veterinary applications for close to 20 years now. None of these vaccines have produced long-term problems in the populations they’re used in, and because all mRNA vaccines work by the same basic mechanism, and because human biology is very similar to bovine and murine and porcine biology, we can safely say that the CoV2 vaccine will be equally safe in the long term.

The other objection I keep hearing is that “these vaccines aren’t FDA approved”. This is true, they aren’t. But FDA approval is not a strong signifier of safety, and absence of FDA approval does not mean a treatment is unsafe. The FDA has approved a goodly number of drugs and treatments that ultimately proved to be disastrous. Thalidomide and diethylstilbestrol are two glaring examples of “FDA approved” drugs that caused horrible birth defects. Similarly, the FDA has still not approved Ivermectin or Fluvoxamine as effective treatments for COVID, despite a large body of evidence showing they are indeed very effective. You need to look at the FDA as basically the medical equivalent to the US Postal Service: they get some basic stuff right, but they’re slow, and they ain’t nowhere near cutting edge.



This is such elementary science, I am frankly embarrassed for people who think that an mRNA virus can alter human DNA. You couldn’t get a passing grade in 10th grade biology if you believed this nonsense. It’s equivalent to thinking that if you piss in the waters of the Mississippi in St Louis that you would contaminate the glaciers in Montana. It’s that stupid.

Look at it this way: the DNA, in the nucleus of a human cell, comprises the chromosomes that carry the human genetic code that makes us the species we are. Portions of the double-stranded DNA in the nucleus are copied in a simple single-strand “shorthand” form called RNA, and these copied RNA strands are the messengers that tell the rest of the cell what to do. RNA isn’t copied back into DNA form, this is a one-way railway track. Once the RNA message is delivered, the RNA is broken down into its components and the components are reused to make more RNA messages , over and over and over again.

The mRNA vaccines work by delivering a “fake” message to certain human cells that cause them to manufacture the CoV2 S-protein, which the cells of the immune system recognize as a foreign protein, and then makes antibodies to it. The vaccine does not interact with our DNA in any way whatsoever. It doesn’t even go into the nucleus (where DNA is located), but does all of its work in the outer parts of the cell in cytoplasmic structures called ribosomes. There is ZERO relationship between the vaccine mRNA and the human genetic code in your DNA. ZERO. It also (probably) interacts with the immune system ‘s T-cells, which incorporate the S-protein into the T-cell-mediated immun response, which is independent of antibodies and far longer-lasting.

After the “fake” mRNA message from the vaccine is used by the human cells for a while, the system plays out and the cells stop making S-protein, and the mRNA fragment is broken down into its components and is reused by the cells like any other piece of RNA. After a few days there are no traces of the vaccine mRNA left in the vaccinated person’s system.

I strongly suggest that folks who want to attack the science of the mRNA vaccines actually learn some science first. It won’t be easy, but with a couple days’ worth of reading textbooks, or heck, just watching decent YouTube videos on the topics of nuclei acid biology and protein synthesis, you’ll be informed enough to realize that 99% of the pseudo-scientific objections to the CoV2 vaccines are utter nonsense.

It may be a huge difference to you, but the results are the same and all vaccines are covered under the 1988 Act if they are fully approved. Which any of these would be if fully approved. I did use the 1988 Act comment prematurely without considering the EUA status and the PREP Act. I will admit that, but the fact remains the same that no new unique legislation was passed for the Covid vaccines as was being implied. It wasn't explicitly stated, but it was implied. All I was doing is pointing this out.

You also implied that the PREP act had not been used for a vaccine in the past under the EUA. It is true that it hasn't been used nationwide for the obvious reason because we haven't had a nationwide pandemic since the passage in 2005. I pointed out that it wasn't the only application of the PREP act for a vaccine (Ebola).

So your point that you are trying to make is that I applied the 1988 Act prematurely due to the EUA status of the Covid vaccines? Does that make you feel better that I acknowledge it was premature and that they are currently covered under the PREP act?

Thank you Doctor, but don't hold out much hope it will convince many.

Take the "Shot' folks or don't take it.,

😂😂😂

The number of US deaths that have been medically attributed to CoVID vaccines as of July 23, 2021, was THREE. Not 10,000, not 100, not 10: THREE.

Go peddle your B U L L S H I T somewhere else.

https://covid-101.org/science/how-many-people-have-died-from-the-vaccine-in-the-u-s/

Wabigoon, I don’t offer this information to convince the committed anti-vaxxers. Kooks like TheRealHawkeye and his misguided ilk are confirmed in their delusions past the point of any rationality. It’s an article of faith with them.

I offer this information for those who are troubled and confused by the plethora of flagrant falsehoods ( like the specious “death rate” number put up by MtnSnake just a few posts above this one) that cloud the waters, and who want some actual facts to settle their minds. I do this for folks like them. There are still a goodly number of these people who participate in this ridiculous sh i t show on these pages.

Sadly, our education system has been mired in its 1950’s era approach to science education, so almost the entire adult population of the US has less science education behind them than grade schoolers in most other developed countries. As such it is easy for anti-Vax charlatans to get an audience and sow seeds of myth and paranoia about any controversial science topic, whether it be global warming or SARS-CoV2.

Thanks Doc Rocket...I needed some 20/20 clarity in these days of dense fog.

Trust in the greater good. Your government would never lie to you…😂

Covid still has a survival rate of over 99%. It is a personal choice. Take it or don’t take it because it is up to you. But you can GFY if you think we don’t have the right to question this shot.

I am not anti vaccine but with this one I have way more questions than answers. Not one single person can say what the long term affects of this shot is going to be.

You summed up my reasons fir not taking the vaccine exactly
Plus I've already had Covid-19
Also I have 2 friends a husband and wife that both took the vaccine and both have Covid-19

John, it’s your call and you know I respect that. I am not interested in selling anyone on getting vaccinated. It’s still a free country as far as this goes.

But I do not suffer idiots spouting falsehoods to speak their lies unchallenged.

No , you miss the points .Words mean things.
You implied another’s decision not to take the jab because pharmaceuticals got a pass on liability, as uninformed. That the vaccine would had been w/o liability anyway because of the 1988 Act . And that wasn’t a reason to not take the jab.

It would not be covered under the 1988 Act for obvious reasons.
The lack of studies.


Under PERP 2005 we are the study. So yes, it is a perfectly valid reason to decline the jab.


And gvt is sooooo looking out for our best interests......

on liability under 1988 Act We pay for damages via a .75 tax on every vaccine anyway. So gvt put all the chips in big pharmaceuticals table and stuck it up ours.

On liability under PERP HHS gets to exempt the drug and then they are judge, jury , and appeals for any claims.

If this rigged system doesn’t raise flags for you, then run to the head of the line.

Science education is what caused mad cow disease by grinding up sheep bone to feed to cattle as a cheap source of protein. Science said its just protein it will be fine. Science ignored that natural borne vegetarians should not be feed animal by products.

Science is great but not always 100% on point

I have a problem with the promotion of Covid-19 vaccinations as safe when no one truly knows of long term effects

I agree facts should always be defended and I appreciate that

DocRocket thank you for you posts. I appreciate the information.

Again thank you

Words do mean things and it is uninformed if one thinks the pharmaceutical companies got a special and unique pass on liability with the Covid vaccines. PREP for now and the 1988 Act if any or all get full FDA approval. See DocRocket's post on FDA approval and the meaning behind it.

I'm glad someone knowledgeable finally posted this information. My son in law is a scientist and explained this to me in a shorthand manner, including the time frame that mRNA vaccines have already been available. Apparently, these vaccines were already scheduled for human testing and the paperwork process required had already been completed when Covid came along, so this wasn't something that was necessarily rushed into service- it has been well studied in other settings and vet circles for many years already and the human variance and especially for Covid use was a relatively simple change of chemistry to adapt to the unique structure of this particular virus.
The responses on this and similar threads on this site and others shows the lack of understanding of the process and the fear generated by those who are stuck in the past. It seems that the better the science gets in developing new treatments, the further behind many get in understanding the newest developments- and anything people don't understand creates fear- which is completely understandable. However, it is well to keep in mind that with the old systems it may have taken years to develop these vaccines and millions more may have died unnecessarily because of bureaucratic road blocks and incompetence....
The utter politicization of this whole situation has been the biggest enemy we have to deal with at the moment... IMO...

Sheister, I couldn’t agree more. The political machinations of this and all issues around CoV2 has been horrendous.

Attitudes some here have is why I started the "Flat Earth", thread as a spoof.

Thanks Doc. Bio-Prince was in 1975 and is as far as I went. My understanding of these mechanisms is rudimentary.

Your knowledge of this subject is obviously of more depth than mine. I appreciate the extensive information you provided.

This whole argument is much like the anti-gun crowd.

"I have never touched a gun. I know nothing about guns, except that they are evil and must be eliminated from public possession at any cost."

Doc, as a professional in the field, I appreciate you putting your medical stamp of approval on correct, verified Covid-19 information. Every news station, including Fox, is hitting the get vaccinated message really hard of late. If having gotten vaccinated 1/23 and 2/16 makes me a better educated sheep, well, then so be it.

Doc if you have had Covid and survived it is there a plus or minus to get the shot? I got Covid early on and have not been even remotely sick since.

CDC is reporting 6207

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 339 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.


https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

That’s people who died within a specified interval of receiving the vaccine. This is an association only. Causation is not association, and if you can’t grasp the distinction I have no time to waste with you.

Springcove, in my opinion the vaccines are iffy for people who had documented COVID infection. The loose consensus I get from my reading and discussions with other docs is that actual infection likely triggers much more robust immunity on both the antibody side and the cellular immunity side (T-cells).

I know a lot of ex-spurts are advocating the vaccine for folks who have been infected, but their logic escapes me. But in fairness, I haven’t taken a lot of time to dig deeper into this in recent months, so my advice may be out of date. The standard recommendation of the powers that be is that infected persons can take their first dose of vaccine 3+ months after their recovery, and there does not appear to be a higher incidence of vaccine-associated complications in this group.

Doc Rocket, Idaho Shooter, Windfall, et.al. Many thanks for sharing your info.

front line, boots on the ground Doctor vs rumors.

you decide


Cant argue that this virus has not been highly politicized, The lead on covid, Faucci, has proven himself to be an idiot and a hypocrite and we obviously cannot trust our government so understand then hesitation.

Had the deadly virus and based on the research, opting out now on the vaccine

What this virus diid reveal, is the poor state of health, and horrible lifestyle and bad choices of millions of Americans. Ask any nurse and they have seen this coming for years

Doc thanks for responding. Stay safe.

I linked the VAERS site that has individual cases to look at

Look everyone has an agenda and is going to play a numbers game to make a point. The truth is probably in the middle.

For me, a virus that has a 98% survival rate doesn’t add up to the government’s “urgency “ to get needles in arms.

99.8%.

Doc, through a protocol to getting an old, long expired Celebrex prescription renewed I had to do a brief visit to my Doc, was tested, found positive but zero symptoms.

I took 3 more tests at his suggestion and was positive for 3 more weeks before going negative. His advice was that in my condition and with no comorbidities to simply hold up on the vax.

I’ve followed his advice. FWIW.

That 6000 plus number is the number I used to calculate .002% risk of death from vax.

But I think that number is derived from any death occurring during some time period after injection. Have an aortic aneurysm two days after the shot, you go on the list. Cerebral embolism..list. Fall down the stairs...list. Fatal car accident....list.

I am open to correction in this matter.

How many actually died due to anaphylaxis or other actual reaction to the vaccine?
ETA: I see DocR has addressed this issue while I was typing.

From CDC
34248054 cases
607,684 deaths. (How many of these died because of existing conditions )
@1.77%

Unless its your Mom, or wife, or child in that 2%!

Being cheated out of 10, or 20, or 30, or even possibly 40 years of life because some idiot with no clue but with a stupid agenda convinced you a vaccine was likely to kill you is a real tragedy.

My advice: get a clue and then make an INFORMED decision.

Vaccines under the 1988 Act- have they been fully vetted?
Vaccines under PERP - have they been fully vetted ?

It is the PREP Act, not PERP Act. People are vetted. Vaccines go through an approval process. In your own words....words matter.

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-...val-process-cber/vaccine-development-101

From CDC

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
FLU case in millions per year
2017/2018 45
2018/2019 36
2019/2020 38

If you feel the need during this “epidemic “ go get one.
If you feel my decision is uninformed, I will somehow learn to
Live with it....

The question was obviously rhetorical. We both knew the answer.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/vetting
the act or process of appraising or checking a person or thing for suitability, accuracy, or validity

I'm happy that you all recovered and are doing well.

So it is your assertion that "about" 40 out of 1,000,000 who become infected with the flu will die from it? The numbers I have seen support that.

So that gives the "flu" a .004% death rate compared to the commonly accepted .2% death rate from C-19. The Covid is 50 times more likely to kill you if you catch it, compared to the "flu". Hundreds of millions get the flu vaccine every year. For something that is 99.996% survivable.

Perhaps they wish to avoid the days of pain and misery, lost work days, and chance of infecting loved ones associated with a disease which is 99.996% survivable.

Suck it up take the shot do it for your relatives. You guys are over thinking this thing. Take chill pill. For god sakes it works.

Tell that to Peru - they've already lost 0.6% of their population to covid. In the US, where there have been almost two tests performed per person in the country, 35 million cases detected and 0.2% of the entire population has died so far. The actual death rate when considering the probable undetected cases ranges from 0.5-1.2%.

Ok doc,

When questions are asked about an issue, especially one that effects one's health, is it not for the good to seek answers? Belittling the questioner says more about the responder than the questioner.

Most of us are not holders of sheepskins on molecular biology. Us lowly work a day morons ask to understand. Sanctimonious condescension of those seeking answers is why there is a giant crevasse between those who place themselves in an elite class and all others.

If you have answers, show your cards, spare us the insults.

Here's a very relevant portion of your quote from VAERS. This database is constantly being cited by anti-vaxxers without any regard to the complexities involved in analysing the data. The vast majority of the 'events' listed are likely to be unrelated to vaccines as you have to do the follow up on the entries and compare the results to the expected numbers of such events in an unvaccinated population. There have been some statistical anomalies indicating very rare clotting problems with the J&J and Astrazeneca vaccines as well as even more rare possible cases of myocarditis (generally mild and eminently treatable) from Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. The data currently indicates that the vaccines are thousands of times safer than taking your chances with the disease. Anyone quoting 'only a 1% death rate' for covid should compare that to the less than 0.0019% death rate for the vaccine. I say less than because that number includes a number of deaths for which causation hasn't been proven.

Where do you come up with this horse schidt?
Covid Australia

32,588 cases, 916 deaths

I have a question for Doc Rocket: What do you think of the discussion about spike proteins generated in response to the mRNA vaccines accumulating in bone marrow and the ovaries?

This is coming from Bret Weinstein (evolutionary biologist) and Robert Malone who was apparently the original developer of mRNA vaccines in the late 80s. There is a long discussion of this on Weinstein's Dark Horse podcast. They have concerns that the spike proteins were supposed to stay confined in cells near the injection site but appear to be moving and concentrating in other areas in the body. They also refer to the spike proteins as toxic.

These guys are certainly credentialed biologists so I think it's worth considering. I would say that they are not really anti vaccine but are raising concerns that the vaccines may have some problems that need to be addressed.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...-easy-steps/id1471581521?i=1000525032595

Aren't a good number of deaths attributed to CV-19 actually deaths not caused by the Corona infection? And 'this is association only?

Take the vaccine! It eliminates BULLS HIT!!

Should we not ban swimming pools? Guns? Think how many have been cheated out of 10, 20, 30, 40 or more years.

Sugar is obviously a national health problem, along with tobacco and alcohol not to mention happy meals. I haven't ever begun to address automobiles.

Why is that some believe they are getting out of life alive?

Just a thought from a layman. We have always known the S-spike protein was toxic. That is why C-19 makes you sick.

The question becomes: how many spike protein molecules are produced in the body by the vaccine vs produced by the virus? Where do they accumulate in either case? How long do they survive in the body after injection or infection?

Comparing the yearly flu vaccines to an mRNA vaccine is like comparing a Pee-wee hockey team to the Lightning.

The vast majority of so called COVID19 deaths are due to something else, where the person happened to test positive on grossly biased PCR tests (based on in excess of 30 cycles). The motive for this, at least in part, is the extra funds given to hospitals based on numbers of COVID19 deaths.

You go ahead

Hell, then. Let's outlaw all antibiotics, and all vaccines. And bulldoze the hospitals. Ain't none of us getting out of here alive.

Why postpone the inevitable.

Hell, give the abortionists free reign while you're at it. Them babies are just going to die someday anyway.

Hawk, shaking my head, if your statements on this point are as far off base as everything you state concerning the C-19 vaccines. Your thoughts should be taken with about a pound of salt.

That's not an argument.

I've actually looked at the science - and the business - behind it all. Thanks for the offer to participate in the vaxx, but no thanks. Just hand me my gold star now...

Here's a nice list of why others aren't getting the vaxx - I happen to share a lot of these reasons...

https://www.deconstructingconventional.com/post/18-reason-i-won-t-be-getting-a-covid-vaccine

Hope this helps.

Sure why not. Your argument sounds just like the liberal argument for gun control, all control. I'm sorry you can't connect the dots.

I don't understand why anyone cares what anyone else does or does not do. If your vaccinated, why do you care if I'm not?

You do what is best for you and your family, I'll do what is best for mine. Easy as apple pie

Everything that is occurring with c19 has been orchestrated, all a planned event spanning several decades, c19 virus itself has been thoroughly tested over the years and they have formulated multiple strains to kill certain groups individuals and they were planted ahead of time worldwide then realeased simultaneously

and they haven't released the deadly one yet but it's coming

The "vaccine" wasn't developed to protect you from c19

c19 was developed and released SO YOU TAKE THE "VACCINE"

What is your advice on taking or not taking the shot?

Sounds like the daddy of all conspiracy theories.

Medical link and source beyond the Illuminati?

There are a lot of conspiracy theory nut jobs on here.

I'm not saying I believe it, but to scuff at anything these days is foolish, except alien and Elvis sightings. It's a long race and we aren't even in sight of the finish line

I think there is a valid argument of limited resources at a hospital supporting Covid-19. If the staff is overwhelmed with Covid-19 patients, then everyone suffers.

sort of a there are no atheists in foxholes kinda thing

Bowman, I haven’t heard Weinstein’s podcast, but he is a highly respected scientist and his concern bears scrutiny. I haven’t read anywhere in the literature about the S-protein being expressed in ovaries, but it makes sense it would show up in bone marrow (which is in large part made up of nascent leukocytes, which are the target tissue for the mRNA vaccine).

I’m not sure why anyone would refer to the S-protein as toxic. It has been shown to bind to Angiotensin receptors, which is how the virus gains entry into cells. This binding is not reversible, so the cell’s machinery breaks down the receptor-ligand complex into its component amino acids and recycles them. I am not aware of any research showing a prolonged effect that damages human cells by this or any other mechanism of the S-protein. And there has been a LOT of research on the S-protein

Another important question to be asked on this issue is how long the spike proteins persist in these tissues, and what sorts of effects do they have on those tissues? Proteins and their components (peptide chains) don’t hang around forever; in fact, the immune system recognizes them as foreign material and demolishes them quickly. Does the research show them hanging around for more than a few hours or days? This would be very surprising if found to be the case.

I don’t have answers to these questions, but if Weinstein et al. have been correct, then I’m sure some good bench scientists are looking for them.

Like it was 18 months ago when Cuomo was saying their would be countless refrigerated trucks filled with bodies?

So we are back to square one and now it's going to be worse then the non-apocalyptic event from March of 2020?

no not at all, more like Little Rock's largest hospital currently at capacity with Covid 19 patients 4 days ago

Its reported by the hospital that the majority of those people are not vaccinated



The threat now is that more of these facilities are beginning to fill up again and that is concerning because the focus could be turned away from other patients who also need medical attention.

“People who may have an injury, or a heart attack, or a stroke, or some other illness, may not be able to get the timely care that they need,” Dr. Dillaha said.

Ya think?!?

It does keep the campfire 🔥.

You mean, like this:

How far a jump is it from the lab leak hypothesis which even the Pres & Fauci now refuse to discredit and what Swamplord suggested?

I am not saying I believe it, but it sure doesn’t seem anywhere near as far fetched as it would have 2 years ago!

Do you use the same analysis on CDCs numbers for infection and mortality?
I’m not trying to steer anyone anyplace.
If 2% scares you take the shot.
If you can live with the alternative, pass.

Not enough salt in all of Bonaire.

There has been a lot of rumor in the popular press about the S-protein being a toxic agent in and of itself, but I have seen ZERO evidence of this in the medical literature. I just did a quick Google sweep on it this morning, and from what I can tell a single journalist (Japanese) made this claim a few months ago based on a single sentence in a Pfizer internal document that was apparently taken out of context by the journalist.

Several expert panels have addressed this since then, and all have said it’s bunk. These are not Pfizer staff, or government people… they’re research scientists who make their living knowing this stuff.

The S-protein is what the SARS-CoV2 virus uses to gain entry to human cells. It’s a key to a lock, not a poison. Furthermore, there does not appear to be any evidence that the vaccine spike proteins accumulate anywhere. The vaccine stays almost completely in the site of the injection, and your immune system cells attack it and take it up at the site. The S-proteins are expressed on the surface of the vaccinated leukocytes as part of the antibody generating process and are not tossed out into the bloodstream, as some people imagine. After a period of time the cells in question are broken down and the excess proteins are recycled.

When the immune system detects a spike protein in the body it binds to it and destroys it and the viral particle it is attached to. The viruses and the spike proteins are broken down immediately. Intact viral proteins, whether from the CoV2 i virus or any other, do not accumulate anywhere. The body destroys them and reuses the components.

Fiubarski, you’re cute. Keep on being’ you, man…

OK

Diesel, no insult is intended to anyone asking honest questions. However, I hold anyone spouting b u l l s h I t and claiming it is science accountable.

I’ve given you the broad brushstrokes here in several posts today. Use that to do a Google search if you like, or if you have a specific question, ask it and I’ll do my best to give you a straight answer.

Your eyes are brown, man…

Is google unbiased?

Bwahahahaha!

Yes.

#ouch

LOL

The data I have seen comes from Pfizer's original research and maps the location of the lipid portion (which I believe the spike protein is bound to) over the first 48 hours after the vaccine is administered. At 48 hours the amounts in the ovaries and bone marrow are very high. I haven't seen data of what happens after 48 hours.

You might want to look at the Bret Weinstein podcast when you have time. Bret Weinstein and Robert Malone discuss Pfizer data obtained via a FOIA request to the Japanese Government that indicate the spike proteins are not contained in the membranes of the cells producing them, but get into the blood and later migrate to the ovaries and bone marrow. So that's very different than your description. I'm not a medical biologist and don't have a position on this, but they present very different data and conclusions. If this is true, it sounds somewhat alarming to me. I've had both doses of the Moderna vaccine so I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I do look at dissenting positions from credible people and Weinstein and Malone seem credible to me.

The data I have seen (which is before my very eyes) is that anybody worrying about COVID is a stone cold bitch.

Congress did that back in the Reagan years. It applies to this current situation but it was not done to prepare for the current situation.

Tom

Psychology. If EVERYONE is wrong, then I don't stand out being wrong. If I can get everyone else to vax, then I don't look like such a fool because I vaxed. Etc.

Tom

Vaccines are generally a low profit item for the manufacturers and there will always be some bad side effects from vaccines. As a result, if it was easy to sue the manufacturers, they wouldn't make the vaccines.

In this case, the Trump administration guaranteed the drug companies that they would purchases hundreds of millions of doses at good prices as an incentive to get the vaccines produced quickly.

Interesting anecdote. My counter is this: an older friend lives in a nursing home in Yakima, Washington. They were one of the first outbreaks of COVID. Fully 1/3 of the residents in the facility died along with 2-3 staff members. He has either had it twice or had a long-delayed relapse. He reports that he is doing pretty well now, no long term effects but that is not true for his friends who died.

Tom

Tom,

You might be interested in this report.
Many nursing home employees worldwide have reported the same.

https://ugetube.com/watch/cna-nursi...njections-speak-out_QtFAQhiGWiXBiuE.html

Interesting anecdote.

The median length of stay in a nursing home is 5 months.

So, it's not surprising that some people died within that time.

So, there’s only the mRNA vaccine?

Yes, people die. You don't lose 1/3 of the population in a 2-4 week period. Ever. But they did. And now things are pretty much back to normal and have been for nearly a year. Why one spike in the deaths, all with covid symptoms, not merely testing positive?

Love to see a death link of common pneumonia, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, strokes, small pox, drug over doses the past 2 years in Peru too. Just to make it honest. lol

How just dengue fever deaths.?

Communicable diseases continue to be the leading cause of death in Peru. In 2007, the standardized mortality rate for major groups of causes was 126.4 per 100,000 population for communicable diseases, 114.3 for tumors, 101.1 for diseases of the circulatory system, and 74.6 for external causes.

No, the alternative is the Johnson and Johnson/Janssen vaccine.

Covid-19 went through the nursing where my mother is and few deaths were recorded. One was a 93 year old that l know of.

Because your story's bullshit.

It was rhetorical
I was replying to goalie
Quote “
Comparing the yearly flu vaccines to an mRNA vaccine is like comparing a Pee-wee hockey team to the Lightning.”

Yep

2017/2018 45 million cases 61000 deaths .0013%
2028/2019 36 million cases 34000 deaths .0009%
2019/2020 38 million cases 22000 deaths .00058
2021/date 34 million cases 60784 deaths.0177%

You ‘scuff ‘ at and question what’s just thrown out there.

It was a very simple question is all.

Thank you so much for the correction.

I had read reports from early research of introducing spike proteins into live cellular tissues with fatal results to those cells.

Either that report was more fake news dispersed to discredit the vaccine, or the research was flawed.

This guy is pushing the jab.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...ain-function-research-nih-defending-use/

The guy is guilty, it would seem, of crimes against humanity on a huge scale.

It was a very simple question up until you felt compelled to but the flippant Illuminati at the end. At the point it became a smarmy comment.

Do you or do you not have a Medical source link beyond the Illuminati?

Is that simple enough for you?

Toot is a founding member of the Fire Covtard Council

You are simple enough for me. I bet you live alone.

Do you have any Medical links?
You seem confused by the question.
A simple “no” is okay and then you can go back to the Illuminati thing.

Simple enough for you?

Winos Unite !!

Covtards accept any bullshit story bout dead relatives, friends, friends of friends, relatives of relatives, nursing home residents and literally *anything* from Italy or India, as fact.

But they demand multiple citations to authority, if anyone *not* a covtard posts that the sun just might come up, tomorrow.

So is Governor deSantis, our quiet hero here at The Campfire, so often lauded.

Is he guilty of crimes against humanity?

Jus askin.

How are those Hospital tours going for ya?

Make a pass by the Nursing Homes too and get back to us.

A liar like yourself never changes another person’s post do you.

Takes 5 seconds ta quote your Covtard post, search it on the net, and see that's what some covtard posted, back when.

You should copyright it.

Your lies are chiseled in stone. No need for you to copyright anything.

Why are you so afraid of your own post?

Heh.

Because he can’t admit he was wrong.

Doc, why was the original swine flu vax pulled after 20 deaths and now the Covid jab is not being pulled after VAERS reports 9000 deaths?

How are the COVID-19 jabs not illegal to develope or use since there are proven treatments?

How is it legal to vax kids who essentially are in no danger from Covid when they havent been proved safe by the FDA.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-deaths-us-according-cdc-vaers-websites/

Don't hold your breath for an answer.

It’s not technically a vaccine right? No liability on manufacturers and advertisements don’t have to disclose side effects

Maryland , launches 1 million $ scholarship program [vaccine] , <<---- this is one of the many things that scare me about 'the shot' ! ! !

I replied to this previously: several science expert panels have replied to this assertion and said they don’t give it any credence. I mentioned it to a colleague today, who like me has a graduate biochem degree, and he agreed the idea flies against what we know about foreign proteins in the bloodstream, I.e., they don’t hang around long at all, and he like me knows of no intrinsic toxic effect of the S protein. But I will endeavor to look further into it. I do have actual real work and actual real patients, so I may not get to it for a day or two.

Ralph, I don’t know the details of the swine flu vaccine issue, so I can’t give you a cogent answer. But I’ll try to get to this question, and bowmanh’s question, tomorrow before I go in to work.

Unlike some of you, TRH, I have actual work to do that keeps me busy so I don’t have the luxury of hanging out here for hours each day. But I will get an answer for him.

Thanks for your enduring faithfulness.

Yeah. Juxtaposing a quote from a year ago with a recent one, neither of which relates to the other, that is high wit indeed.

I’m not surprised in the least you’re amused.

LOL

Um, there is a huge waiver everyone who's gotten a covid vaccine has signed. The liability is non existent, but all the bad stuff that can happen is right there to read before you sign and get the vaccine.

Nothing to do with wit.

You posted a metric crap-ton of bullshit a year ago about the cold virus that turned out ta be completely wrong, and you're postin again now about the fakeccine, tryin ta get people ta believe it's safe.

No one knows for certain what's bullshit at this point, but you're throwin out crap from "science expert panels".

"Science expert panels" "proved" global warming was real, when of course it's all bullshit, so you're not likely ta get any traction with anyone with any sense.

I'm happy to accept your invitation ta join you in pointing out people who've posted bullshit bout bolo-19, but I won't be able to match your production.

Because you won't have any travel time.

"I tossed a brick through your window to sell you a burglar alarm. You bought it." - Dr. Fauci

Ralph, I've had a bit of time to do some reading, and have a couple thoughts for you to look at.



In the first place, I don't know "why". I can only guess, which is about all you can do, as well.

The swine flu vaccine debacle in 1976, looked back at through the retrospectoscope, was a huge political boondoggle. Frankly, I missed it at the time, and had to do some reading to find out what all the fuss was about. Turns out that one (1) U.S. serviceman died from swine flu, and a bunch of politically ambitious scientists convinced some critters in Congress that this was sufficient cause to initiate the greatest mass vaccination effort since ever. You likely know all about it, but for those who don't, here's a link with a short summary: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/long-shadow-1976-swine-flu-vaccine-fiasco-180961994/. There are some other links you can access through that article to get some more detailed articles if you care to.

The gist of it was that 1976 was an election year, and a whole bunch of politicians tried to use the swine flu scare and the vaccination program to gain votes. Then a bunch of other folks who were opposed to this first group made hay with some statistics about deaths from Guillain-Barre disease that they attributed to the swine flu vaccine, and raised a helluva ruckus about it that caused such a public relations backlash that Congress and the FDA and god knows who else decided to scrap the whole program.

The incidence of G-B in the general population was about 1 in 100,000 at that time (still is), and in the vaccinated population it appeared to be about 2 in 100,000. Pretty small numbers, and with such a rare disease, the statistical significance of the "jump" was, well, insignificant. But it was played up in the press, and by politicians in Washington, to the point that Americans were scared to death of the vaccine.

Sounds pretty much deja vu, all over again, huh?

The result of this debacle was twofold: 1) it created the "antivax" culture almost overnight, and that culture continues to spin and spin and spin; and 2) it created a much tougher approach in public health authorities to dealing with potential vaccine complications, which in part counterbalances the antivaxxers' paranoia. The general public, generally ignorant of science in all things more complex than being able to misquote Newton's first law of thermodynamics, has been caught between the two extremes ever since and the more or less general public mistrust of vaccine programs stems from this.

But let's look at the SARS-CoV2 vaccine associated problems, and see where it compares. First thing, I'm gonna call b u l l s h i t your "VAERS-reported 9000 deaths". The VAERS database is a list of ANYthing bad that happens to ANYone within a specified time period of getting a vaccine. There is no implication of causation in the VAERS database. It's just a pool of numbers to look at. And the CDC is currently reporting the number of deaths on the list at 6207, not 9000, as of July 21 (https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/covid-19-vaccine-related-fatalities-updated). Second thing, let's look at the VAERS pool of data and compare to the general population for some supposed "adverse effects" of the vaccine.

I've picked out a couple-three examples from the literature we can look at: 1) the risk of "blood clots", which everybody thinks they know about but don't, which the CDC specifies as thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS); 2) Guillain-Barre Syndrome, previously mentioned; and 3) cardiomyopathy/pericarditis syndromes. You can look these up on the CDC website here: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

1)TTS There have been 39 confirmed cases of TTS in recipients of the J&J vaccine (13+ million doses given) and 2 cases of TTS in recipients of mRNA vaccines (324 million doses given). This translates into a risk ration of 0.3 per 100,000 population and 0.0062 per 100K. Now, it's tough to compare that to the risk of TTS in the general population at large, because TTS comprises several syndromes that come under other names; but the best estimate I've found comes from here: [ https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-04-23/06-COVID-Oliver-508.pdf ] and this author cites the incidence at about 0.7-1.6 per million, or 0.07-0.16 per 100,000. So this tells us that the rate of TTS in recipients of J&J vaccine appears to be about twice as high as in the general population, but with Pfizer/Moderna it's 1/10 the risk in the general population. But you have to concede that the risk is very small in any of these.

By way of comparison, the majority of intensive care deaths due to SARS-CoV2 have a blood-clotting failure problem to them (either hypercoagulability or hypcoagulability). Using Worldometer's estimate of US Crude Mortality Rate [ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/ ], which is 238 per 100,000 population, this means that your risk of death from TTS from taking the vaccine is about 1/800 the risk of you dying from COVID.

2) Guillain-Barre Syndrome We have covered this one to some degree in the previous discussion of swine flu. The risk in the general population is about 1-2 per 100,000, depending on which source you cite. What about the risk of GBS from one of the CoV2 vaxes?

Well, there have been "about 100" cases of GBS in folks who've received the J&J vaccine (risk of 0.77 per 100K), and I'm not finding a number for the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines, but it's supposed to be "much lower" than the J&J. Soooo... we see that your chances of developing GBS without vaccines of any kind is 1-2/100K, and with J&J is slightly less than that. [ https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html ]

Not exactly a ringing indictment of the vaccine, again.

3) Cardiomyopathy/Pericarditis Now this is a bit trickier, because these syndromes are not fatal very often, but they really do mess with you for a period of a few weeks to a few months. Now, the incidence of all VAERS-reported cases for ALL the vaccines is 674, and we're talking about 337 million doses of the vaccine. This puts the risk at 0.2 per 100K.

Compare this to a general population risk of 27.7 per 100K for pericarditis, and 10-22 per 100K for viral cardiomyopathy. Let's average that out to 20 per 100K, which is 100X higher than the identified risk with the vaccine.

So: in summary, while I can't definitively tell you why the swine flu vaccine was recalled, I have shown you here that the risks of dying from the vaccine are measurably much lower than the risks of dying from the fecking disease you are able to get vaccinated against.

Does that answer your question, Ralph?




I ain't a lawyer. Go ask a lawyer.

But I will point out that we have treatments for Herpes zoster (shingles) that work real well, as you know. You treated me for shingles about 8 years ago, remember? I'm pretty grateful for that, too. Your quick action saved my left eye, man.

But since then they came out with a vaccine against Zoster, and you can be damned sure I took it at the first opportunity, because it's proven to reduce my risk of getting shingles again. It wasn't illegal to develop the Zoster vaccine for the same reason it's not illegal to develop a vaccine against any other infectious disease.



Again, I ain't a lawyer. Go ask a lawyer.

But I am really leery about this one. I think there needs to be a lot more safety testing before we release this on kids. And the reasoning behind that is really complex, much more complex than the reasoning I've put up above.

To give a personal note, I am vaccinated, as is my wife, as are all 3 of my adult kids. My 2 granddaughters, however, aged 3 and 4, will NOT be vaccinated until I and their mothers are a helluva lot more convinced of the safety in peds population than we are now.

Have a great day, Ralph. I hope we can go dove hunting soon.

fubarski, I'm real broke up to realize that my feet of clay have shattered your faith in me. Real broke up.

I was a bit wrong on my timing on how bad the epidemic was gonna be a year ago. I didn't know how bad it was gonna get until January. So yeah, I got it wrong. Mea fecking culpa. It ain't the first time and it won't be the last time. But I console myself with the fact that my work over the past year has saved quite a few lives. I lost a lot of folks, too. Some of them were too far gone, and God knows who we really had a shot at saving. COVID deaths were and are hard ones to choke down, and I've seen way more than I ever wanted to. But I've learned, and so has my profession, and I think we are doing better now.

That's what we do in medicine. We work with the information we have, and do our best with what we know, and we learn by our mistakes. And I take great comfort in knowing that there will always be bitter and twisted people like you who will ever remind me of my fallibility.

But hey, there's lots of folks way smarter and better looking than you who don't like me, so I guess I can deal with your disappointment. Don't choke on your spleen, kid. It tastes awful and in the end you'll die.

Sniping, snide comments aside, you can't dwell on how treating Covid-19 with ARDS protocols basically was killing them.

The treatments have evolved, and we now know what does and doesn't work.

The push to vaccinate kids REALLY bothers me though. They have almost zero risk from covid. Even if we were not talking about an EUA for a new tech, the push to vaccinate kids for this would be evil.

First thing: as much as I admire Bret Weinstein, I find his podcasts interminably dull. He's interesting as a guest on Rogan's podcast, but he puts me to sleep on his own. Second thing, podcasts are a lousy source of information. I listen to podcasts to open lines of inquiry, to cause me to search for information, but there is rarely any solid factual evidence of anything in a podcast. So I decline your invitation to spend 2 hours trying to stay awake for that Weinstein podcast.

Instead, I have done what I do (read and search literature, which I have a lot of experince at). I am not posting this in an effort to convince anyone that the SARS-CoV2 vaccines--individually or in toto--are safe or unsafe, or that you should/shouldn't get a vaccine. The choice is entirely yours.

I am posting this answer because I promised to do so before this thread became a complete name-calling s h i t s h o w, and I try to keep my promises.

I will not be answering any further questions nor arguing with any of you one way or another.

The purpose of Science is to formulate and test hypotheses, in an effort to find truths about physical phenomena. Definitive answers are rare, conflicting information is common, and the truth only emerges over time. This is unsatisfying to the short attention span types who frequent these pages, so those of you who demand free and easy information that is beyond question will be unhappy with it. But if you are willing to invest some time and effort into reading and thinking about it, you should be able to use this information to enlighten yourself.

Now, I am not your unpaid research assistant. You can look these reports up yourself with a modest effort. Whether you can glean sufficient information from them without a research science background I can't say, but if you feel you aren't quite up to speed, I suggest you start with the following videos to get yourself in a position to understand more clearly. It will save you having to read a lot of dull, dry textual material and covers the groundwork pretty decently. And let me suggest that if you find any of these videos confusing, look at some of the linked videos on YouTube that are attached to each of them. There is a tremendous amount of good, solid science on YouTube, and these selections I'm giving you will give you a few decent places to start learning about it if you care to.

1. Difference between DNA and RNA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruUf7ntRCk8
2. How does messenger RNA work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dsTvBaUMvw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKIpDtJdK8Q
3. Can mRNA alter a host organism's DNA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGKg9rj9W1s
4. How does the DNA-RNA-protein synthesis process work in cells: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gUY5NoX1Lk
5. How mRNA vaccines work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOvvyqJ-vwo
6.How did the mRNA vaccines develop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6aBJ1wYZ0M (this is #6 in a good 6-part series) ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPeeCyJReZw (this is a bit more technical and goes into more of the history of mRNA vaccine science)
7. How do antibodies come into being: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_GRI3fxUWw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9jl9QpVz10
8. Humoral vs Cell-mediated immunity: ​https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vh24StylNo, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXB7M_GIf-g
9. How do T-cells create immunity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWhDOR3ZsTE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i536vS3z3e8 (ignore the pandemic statistics in the intro to the video)
10. How does the S-protein bind to the ACE2 receptor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJwHZKHpKTM
11. Receptor binding pharmacodynamics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZzOg3IzjUE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=011Bj5USal8, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXOXZ-kaSVI (This topic was integral to my Master's Degree research, which was in the study of one particular receptor-ligand interaction and which I spent about 2 years working on in the lab and the library. I'm pretty much up to speed on this topic even today. It has quite a lot of bearing on the topic of the question I'm answering here.)

If you don't want to bother learning the information in the above videos, you probably won't be able to get sufficient information from the following references to make an informed opinion. But hey, that's how most of the folks on these pages operate in any case, so don't let that hold you back.

So, do S-proteins accumulate in human ovaries?

1. Probably not, from studies in cell cultures of CoV2 infection, S-proteins don't accumulate and don't have a toxic effect. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7205710/ (this is only one representative article; there are several other studies that look at other aspects of the question, and came up with more or less the same result).

2. However: enough people are interested in this to look into it some more (https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/11/2/e045524.full.pdf). Basically, they're saying that since the S-protein attaches to Angtiotensin-II receptors, and ovarian tissue is rich in ACE2 receptors, maybe CoV2 will affect female fertility because the virus will bind to ovaries preferentially versus tissues that aren't as rich in ACE2's. But nobody knows if this will have any longterm effect on fertility, which is why they are proposing these studies. It will take a long time to get answers, because female fertility is extremely complex and highly difficult to study, despite the fact that human trailer-trash females who have more tattoos than teeth and can barely spell their own names are able to reproduce with apparent great fecundity.

3. But notwithstanding #2, the fact that lab scientists have shown that S-proteins don't accumulate in ovarian cells in tissue culture despite the abundance of ACE2 receptors on these cells, suggests that what happens to the S-proteins that have bound to the ACE2 receptors is exactly as I explained to you previously, and which is explained in part in the YouTube video in #11, above:
a) the S-protein (which is a ligand) is a "fake" ligand on the surface of the CoV2 virus that binds to the ACE2 receptor; the ACE2 receptor is supposed to
bind to Angiotensin, a hormone that has numerous regulatory effects on human cells;
b) in the normal case, ligand-receptor binding causes certain enzymes in the target human cell to be activated. This
causes particular cellular chemical reactions to take place that otherwise would be dormant. After a specified time period, the ligand is released from
the receptor and is chewed up by enzymes on the cell surface or inside it. This is the process that prevents a hormone release from having an
indefinite or prolonged effect.
c) the S-protein's binding to the ACE2 receptor may or may not trigger the cell's enzymes, but its REAL purpose is to "jam the mechanism"... it binds to
the ACE2 receptor irreversibly, rendering it useless.
d) the cell recognizes the now-defunct ACE2-ligand complex as defunct, so it pulls it back into the cell to be broken down into component parts
that can be reused.
e) the CoV2 virus, which is attached to the ACE2-ligand complex, thus gains entry into the host cell, where it releases its RNA core, and this takes over
the host cell's protein synthesis systems to manufacture multiple new copies of the virus.
f) in the case of the "free" S-proteins produced by an mRNA vaccine, the defunct receptor-ligand complex is drawn into the cell, but since there is no
virus attached to it, there is no infection of the cell; the S-protein is now nothing more than a component of a large "broken" molecular structure that
the cell breaks down into its amino acid building blocks, to be reused to make new proteins as part of the cell's ongoing life.

Now, I cannot PROVE to you that this is what happens to the S-proteins produced by one of the mRNA vaccines. All I can tell you is that this is what happens to every other receptor-ligand complex known to biomedical science, every time, in every cell of every species. For the S-protein to somehow have a completely DIFFERENT ending than every other ligand that binds to cell receptors is theoretically possible, but the fact that no one has found accumulation of S-proteins in ovarian cell cultures (see point #1 above) suggests that this is in fact what happens to S-proteins, just as it does in every single other case of receptor-ligand complexes known to science.

Now, that is as plainly as I can explain it. I hope this serves as a reasonable answer to your question. If I have failed to answer it to your satisfaction, go ask somebody else.

You is really good at givin yourself a handjob.

But then again, not a lotta distance travelled in *that* endeavor, either, by hand or foot.

Hadda look up feet of clay. Thought you was stuck in the mud, and couldn't log in.

I quoted a small part of the things you posted last year that didn't have any basis for support at that time, and turned out ta be wrong.

Just as people have the right ta remain silent, and can't seem ta do it, early in the bolo-19 scare warmup, you had the right ta say that doctors don't really know what was goin on, and that with time, the problem could be understood, and dealt with.

But you didn't do that. You posted that "the science isn't settled", when of course the coronavirus family of viruses was, and is, well understood and has been for decades.

You posted that isolation would prevent hospitals being overwhelmed, with no basis for that assumption, which is why it turned out ta be wrong.

And you posted a number of other predictions which happened to coincide with the projections made by those interested in promoting the hysteria.

I can't tell if that was a mistake of the head, or of the heart, but I *do* know, that you're following the same path in the support of the fakeccines you've posted recently.

You admit in your latest analysis that nobody knows what the long-term effects might be, but you are pushing through that fact in supporting the safety of the shots.

You claim now that "the science is settled", when in fact the treatments have little history behind them, compared to knowledge of the coronavirus.

What if you're wrong about the long term safety of the shots, as you were wrong about your initial analysis of the course of treatment for the bolognavirus?

There's nothing wrong with admitting that there is, at this time, an insufficient knowledge base to reach a conclusion relative to the merits of the fakeccines, but again you didn't do that.

Except when it came to your own blood, of course.

If you're going to be a shot cheerleader, it's only fair to examine the history of your past predictions, is it not?

Apparently, not.

Your input won't affect any action I may or may not take even with my spleen.

All I can do is look forward, and hope for your patients' sakes that, someday, you'll be as good a doctor as you think you are.

Hey, Fugqoffski... 8787 deaths in Texas due to CoV2 since February. All but 43 of those deaths in non-vaccinated people.

That's 99. 995% non-vaccinated people.

Like I said, I'm real sorry you're so butt-hurt by my fallibility. Well, kinda sorry. Actually, not at all. Oh, well. Keep on bein' you, bub.

Yall need to go fishin and drink together. Solves alot of problems.

"CDC recommends clinical laboratories and testing sites that have been using the CDC 2019-nCoV RT-PCR assay select and begin their transition to another FDA-authorized COVID-19 test. CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses."

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/...ges_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

The CDC now admit that their bullshit test won't detect the difference between bolo-19, and any other coronavirus.

Or, detect the difference between bolo-19, any other coronavirus, and the flu.

IOW, anybody that took the test, never really knew what they had.

Most likely, on purpose.

Anybody that ever believed in those bullshit numbers is, and has been, an idiot.

So, suckpuppet, I'd say "keep on bein you", except that doin that's going to fck up other people's lives.

Yeah, that would probably work. It might fix a lot of the world's problems. More fishin', anyway.

Doc, appreciate the content and the effort



Decent article about How Science lost the public

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-...biden-censorship-coronavirus-11627049477

Vaccines have been central to the question of “misinformation” and the White House’s pressure campaign against social media to censor it. Mr. Ridley worries about the opposite problem: that social media “is complicit in enforcing conformity.” It does this “through ‘fact checking,’ mob pile-ons, and direct censorship, now explicitly at the behest of the Biden administration.” He points out that Facebook and Wikipedia long banned any mention of the possibility that the virus leaked from a Wuhan laboratory.

“Conformity,” Mr. Ridley says, “is the enemy of scientific progress, which depends on disagreement and challenge. Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts, as [the physicist Richard] Feynman put it.” Mr. Ridley reserves his bluntest criticism for “science as a profession,” which he says has become “rather off-puttingly arrogant and political, permeated by motivated reasoning and confirmation bias.” Increasing numbers of scientists “seem to fall prey to groupthink, and the process of peer-reviewing and publishing allows dogmatic gate-keeping to get in the way of new ideas and open-minded challenge.”

The World Health Organization is a particular offender: “We had a dozen Western scientists go to China in February and team up with a dozen Chinese scientists under the auspices of the WHO.” At a subsequent press conference they pronounced the lab-leak theory “extremely unlikely.” The organization also ignored Taiwanese cries for help with Covid-19 in January 2020. “The Taiwanese said, ‘We’re picking up signs that this is a human-to-human transmission that threatens a major epidemic. Please, will you investigate?’ And the WHO basically said, ‘You’re from Taiwan. We’re not allowed to talk to you.’ ”

He notes that WHO’s primary task is forestalling pandemics. Yet in 2015 it “put out a statement saying that the greatest threat to human health in the 21st century is climate change. Now that, to me, suggests an organization not focused on the day job.”

And iirc something like 43 Chinese scientists were working for Pfizer?

And this is why your title of KOTY-Emeritus is for perpetuity... Well done!

I'm crushed.

These numbers do not tell us much about the efficacy of the vaccine given the fact that there are so many possible confounding variables in the sample populations. For example, maybe exposure and transmission factors were different in the vaccinated population. What were the vaccination rates while the mortality numbers were collected. In other words how many people were vaccinated during Feb, March, etc ... of those.

Also, the very idea that anyone died after having been vaccinated should be explained much better than it appears to be.

Chinese Military Scientist Suspected of Involvement in COVID-19 Creation Elected to American Academy of Microbiology
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...n-elected-american-academy-microbiology/

LOL

You believe those numbers?

Even the CDC has admitted all testing has been fugked.

Fwd: Fwd:
Is this true? It would explain a lot!
Xxxxxxxxxx
Kaye Beck, [May 18, 2021 at 3:03 PM]
And so the cookie starts to crumble... Read this...3 TIMES! The masks begin to fall off!

"The Chinese biological laboratory in Wuhan is owned by Glaxosmithkline, which (accidentally) owns Pfizer!" (the one who makes the vaccine against the virus which was (accidentally) started at the Wuhan Biological Lab and which was (accidentally) funded by Dr. Fauci, who (accidentally) promotes the vaccine!
"GlaxoSmithKline is (accidentally) managed by the finance division of Black Rock, which (accidentally) manages the finances of the Open Foundation Company (Soros Foundation), which (accidentally) manages the French AXA!
"Soros (accidentally) owns the German company Winterthur, which (accidentally) built a Chinese laboratory in Wuhan and was bought by the German Allianz, which (coincidentally) has Vanguard as a shareholder, who (coincidentally) is a shareholder of Black Rock," which (coincidentally) controls central banks and manages about a third of global investment capital.
"Black Rock" is also (coincidentally) a major shareholder of MICROSOFT, owned by Bill Gates, who (coincidentally) is a shareholder of Pfizer (which - remember? Sells a miracle vaccine) and (coincidentally) is now the first sponsor of the 'WHO!
Now you understand how a dead bat sold in a wet market in China has infected the WHOLE PLANET! "" .... copy and share quickly ....

This is so true.

Combine that with the general incompetence trending in the ranks of the professional community across the broad and you get trust issues.

I.wonder who is paying this scientist how much to.say this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/camus37/status/1400457899831296003?s=20

He's right.

https://freeworldnews.tv/watch?id=60b678a63050f25ed4372a6f

https://mobile.twitter.com/husserl80/status/1400901292084637699

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-06-07-fauci-knew-covid-vaccines-threaten-enhance-disease.html

Dr Bartlett at Free America Health and freedom Ralley

https://youtu.be/MhyQ1aVsSvQ

https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/06...ne-autism-link-in-african-american-boys/

https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/press_releases/cdc-acknowledges/

Oldhat, if I squint hard enough I can sort of see that you're almost making a good point here, and I'll help you with that. But first let's make sure we know what we mean by efficacy.

"Efficacy is the degree to which a vaccine prevents disease, and possibly also transmission, under ideal and controlled circumstances – comparing a vaccinated group with a placebo group. Effectiveness meanwhile refers to how well it performs in the real world." ... from a simple Google search for the difference between the two terms. (For those who disparage Google, you can find the same definitions in an epidemiology textbook, if you prefer, but it'll take you longer to find it.)

So what you're actually asking about is the effectiveness, not the efficacy. The efficacy is defined in trials, and is a more theoretical concept. The effectiveness is derived from actual use data, which is almost always a lower number than the efficacy. So in a hypothetical example, vaccine developers can say that a vaccine has an efficacy of 95%, but in the real world under real use conditions (which is affected by all manner of variables like exposure rate, compliance with the vaccine schedule, etc, as you point out) the vaccine's effectiveness will almost always be lower than the efficacy.

As an example, you can look at the earlier shingles vaccine, which came out about 8-10 years ago, which had an efficacy of 90+% in trials, but in actual use had an effectiveness of less than 50%.

In this case we don't actually have enough data to get a true number for the CoV2 vaccines' effectiveness, because it's still early in the study process. We'll have a pretty good number by early 2022, I expect. But these Texas numbers, which btw line up with similar data from all other states in the CONUS that I'm aware of, are HIGHER than the "theoretical" efficacy of 95%.

This is not something you can quibble about. This is not something you can say is confounded by a bunch of other factors. The success is unquestionable by any measure you can name. Using the word maybe, as you have done, is much like saying, "let's pretend...". It's a dodge, no more and no less.

"Maybe something is messing with those numbers, so I'm not going to give them any credence." This is the sort of thing that people say when they have decided they are not going to accept a set of facts that contradict what they are determined to believe no matter what.

Now: is the actual effectiveness of the CoV2 vaccines going to come in at 99.995%, as these raw Texas numbers seem to say? Almost certainly not. But it's pretty much clear that it's going to come in somewhere in the ballpark of the initial efficacy percentage from the trials.

Hahahaha!

Maybe CDC is working on a better test.......

With all due respect, I and my colleagues have been dealing with patients' distrust for our entire careers. It ain't a new thing. I've had azzhats like TRH try to argue with me about every kooky medical theory under the sun on a regular basis for 30+ years, and I have long since stopped caring about whether they "trust" me or not. My response is to smile, and say "have a nice day" as I show them the door. And if they come back in a week or a month later dying from ignoring best medical advice, I use my best skills to try to save their lives with every skill and piece of information I possess, and I never say "I told you so."

It's not my job to make you trust me, or another doctor. It's my job to give you the best advice I can, given the information I have in my hands at the time.

It is entirely up to each individual patient-person to decide what they want to do.

Ralph, all due respect... but since Dr. Bartlett has decided to re-define medical terms like "vaccine" in his own personal terms in defiance of the consensus of the rest of the profession, I have a hard time giving him the time of day. But you go right ahead, it's still a free country.

Actually I was simply speaking English as in ... Efficacy: "Power or capacity to produce a desired effect; effectiveness."

You were making a big deal about the low death rate among the vaccinated. Not me. You changed the subject to the generally vague notion of efficacy/effectivenessas used in the world of vaccines. It is vague because what the threshold of "disease" is is vague and not always measurable(sniffles or ????). Viral load would be much better.

Back to the actual subject of my response.

Your numbers, not mine, *could* be meaningless because of confounding factors. I'm using confounding factor as a term of art from statistical science. You should know what that means.

I use the word "could" because YOU gave the numbers with out full detail about the sample space for those numbers.

Thank you for the "behind the scenes" perspective.

How many work for Bausch + Lomb? 13,000 employees...how many are Chinese?

You know, this B&L..You putting Chinese developed drops in patients eyes????

https://www.bausch.com/



Addition: Did you ever place any B&L ophthalmics in patients eyes and they still lost vision or went blind..Was it the condition or the drops? Number of adverse events reported after the use of long term opthalmic preparations, that supposedly had an established safety profile? After a rare reported adverse event, did you ever again use that particular product on patients?

You guys are sure a suspicious lot. You believe the news about the fires, hot weather, floods out east, micro chip shortage, Olympics..., but mention Covid and it's all BS. Then too you are all talking about mortality. What about being sicker than you have ever been or risking getting an $850,000. hospital bill like our friend Kathy who is "recovered" with life long respiratory issues who needs a walker now to get around? Sure most people recover from Covid, but why risk getting it in the first place? My insurance man got it alone up at his cabin last bow season and he was so weak that he couldn't pick up his bow. He told me that he knew he was in trouble and that if he'd of had a manual transmission car, he might not have been able to make it back into town to get help. We could have achieved herd immunity by now if so many people didn't politicize the shot. Mississippi has the lowest vaccination rate in the nation and the highest Covid infection rate per capita. It might not be a coincidence that they also have the poorest education system in the country? You all have a small pox shot scar, got a polio shot, get a tetanus and your kid won't get into school without an MMR shot... But the CDC and Covid-19 or it's variants is all Bull S*it. Where does your moral high attitude come from by being a bull head? YOU are the reason that they are locking down the entire country again.

....They are going to have a problem, voting for Trump in 3 years while he tells them to be vaccinated. He just told them to do so a couple days ago...

Fair enough. But in fairness, you could go to the TX.gov website and get the numbers from them directly, get the background data from whatever public databses you care to, then do the analysis yourself rather than expecting me (or anyone else to do it).

If this sounds like a challenge to you, maybe it is...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56424614

Doc have you seen the Vaccine test in Serrana Brazil ? I think they were testing a Chinese Vaccine.

It looked pretty good to the untrained eye.

I'll try to give it a look. Chinese products ain't all bad, btw...

So, the Pfizer vax with a now reported success rate of only 39% by GB and Israel would have prevented that, right?

Liberal/Marxist ruin everything they touch. And with the passing of Obama care their fingers are in every aspect of our healthcare system. Maybe the medical community should have come out opposing Obama care before it was implemented, for the most part they were all for it. Now it's a clusterfuck.... surprise surprise

Don't be absurd. The "medical community" HATED Obamacare from the outset. The politicians at the AMA were the exception, but barely 1% of American doctors are AMA members... it doesn't represent anybody.

Don't blame me/us for Obamacare.

Herd immunity can be reached by infection also.

Doc, I don't blame you at all, I consider you one of the good guys. I do know many medical professionals are very liberal though.

Especially among the less vulnerable. I know a lot of people who have been infected and not had any issues.

Why is no one reporting on antibody testing to determine how much of the population has already been infected. We only here the certain statistics.

Again, those were your numbers. I did not offer them up. You used them to make a point. Not me.

I use B&L products all the time, but if my ability to drive turns to crap then I know something is up!

Probably, if one is given all the percentages? You know the ones that were purposely left out...the 88% and 91%

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/del...e-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html

Remember when all the asymptomatic people was what made this bull schit virus so deadly?

Well, now it’s no big deal so STFU and stop asking.

Okay, fair enough. I used them to make a point. And the numbers I got from TX.gov, which line up with the CDC numbers, and line up with the numbers from more than a dozen other states.

Refusing to believe "my" numbers does not constitute a refutation, or even an argument.

So again, I challenge you: go find some other comparable numbers that say otherwise. Not from some news article from a foreign country, but real numbers from an epidemiological verifiable source. Then you will have an argument worth paying attention to.

Again: I am not your unpaid research assistant.

https://principia-scientific.com/pr...le-will-start-dying-after-covid-vaccine/

Pic from.yesterday.

Folks lining up for the Jab.

She also claimed children are being “starved” of oxygen by having to wear masks..which will result in their IQ being suppressed. She is no longer on the school facility..

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/edu...ahill-moved-from-lecturer-role-1.4514141

Is that the French protest? If so I'm glad to see it.

They are lining up for the Jab.

Heres another vaccine concern for me.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...ge-population-unvaccinated-people-video/

So the point you were trying to make was bogus. QED

You seem unable to connect your dots. The numbers you quoited as reported is not where your problem lies. The problem lies in the fact that you tried to "make a point" using their combination. You can't as I pointed out. It's not hard.


For this I'm grateful.

I just read what you said and found your comments extremely articulate and persuasive. You have questions and raise issues that make your point very effective. That isn’t easy to do

That was well said. I'm not anti vax either. I got my Shingles series during the early days of the pandemic. I've gotten flu shots in the past. (BTW - Whatever happened to the FLU.)

Every vaccine I have received has been an antigen based vaccine. Suddenly the world has changed and we have engineered nucleic acid vaccines. I'm waiting to see how things play out. It is just my choice. I don't begrudge those who choose to get vaccinated. It's their choice.

With out the release of liability, there would not have been a vaccine for months or years.
Is that good or bad, time will tell.

My question on your hypothetical theory is if it’s this simple to fix something so fast then why is there no cure for cancer? Now I am 52 years old I have not hardly been sick in my whole life until I took one vaccine for the flu. Within less then a week I was sicker than I have ever been in my life, so prior to this and every since then I have not been sick so what is your theory on this? Go ahead and say I already was getting the flu and I call it bullshi#. I had colon cancer 9 years ago I am a diabetic and have high blood pressure. I had a nephew 41 years old die from the so called covid vaccine no underlying or health issues at all! So tell me why I should take it?
With all of this said I personally believe before everyone knew what was going on (covid) all of the guys I work with and myself had it. We had some sinus issues some of them had cough issues and low grade fever for a few weeks in December 2019. 5 of the guys went to their doctors and was checked for the flu all came back negative and was told they had sinusitis and bronchitis because nothing else could be found. So this is what has me all confused in all of this vaccine and covid stuff!

Actually, they cure lots of cancers these days.

Are you presently in remission from that colon cancer?

Just curious if you know what they listed as cause of death on his death certificate.

With poison that kills the cancer cells faster than the ones you need to live. Not knocken it. Believe me. Cancer remission is a great thing! It is just chemo can be some wicked stuff.

Seeing how over 100 million people have been vaccinated without significant number of serious problems there is no doubt that the vaccine is safe. At least it’s safer than getting COVID.

For kids?
Fir teens?
For young adults?
For those who have already recovered from an infection?

I disagree you might think it's safe now.But what about 5-10-15 years from now they have no way to know..I don't trust the government or CDC this is being pushed way too much.People need to wake up we are being played.There's something in that shot i want no part of.And all this shaming and guilt crap needs to stop,for all people who refuse to inject that poison in there
bodies.If all these sheep want to listen and do as told that's fine with me but leave the rest of us alone.It pisses me off because I'm not telling you to take the vaccine it's your choice not mine.The government and all these stupid mother fuggers are dividing this country more by the day not uniting it.I see no good coming out of this there's going to be trouble when people get enough.And they need to stop saying "We all in this Together and "We need to come Together as a Country" Because that's not going to happen.

If it were only the US Govt/CDC, I'd be a bit skeptical but every government in the world is offering vaccinations for their citizens. I'm not a conspiracy theorist so I don't think there is some world order trying to control us. All of my extended family members, 21 in total, have taken the vaccine, their own individual choice (no shaming or guilt crap). My mother is the only holdout and we are all worried sick for her, she is a conspiracy theorist but were hopeful she can ride out the storm.

If you are so concerned, why don't you buy her a bottle of D3 with K or a bottle of quercetin?

My nephew lived in Vernon, Texas my sister his mother said they put COVID on the death certificate. Yes,I am still in remission!

Thanks for the response and sorry about your nephew. I was wondering if his death was a breakthrough Covid death which it sounds like as what was listed on the death certificate. If it was a death directly due to him taking the vaccine then I was curious what they listed as the cause of death.

Sadly this tells me that out of 22 people you have just 1 person in your family that is still critically thinking for themselves and not just listing to media talking points. Good for her.

If their precious PCR test cant differentiate between Covid and the Flu, how do they know people are getting the Delta?

Fwd:
Dr. David Martin: There's no "Delta" Variant - "Novel" Coronavirus COVID-19 Patented 2 Decades Ago
https://rumble.com/vjy2x7-dr.-david...-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-patente.html

Vaccines have been around for nearly 100 years and no one has had bad effects after the first 3 months or so.

The biggest problem is believe what the progressive fascists say after their unending lies. After lying about Russian collusion, lying about impeaching Trump for investigating Crooked Joe, and all of Obama’s lies we would be fools to believe anything they say.

I’m going to go get a D-Dimer clot test

If I’m free and clear with no plasma elevation

Who gets to get let me kick em in the nuts with a Double H steel toed boot ?

Put up or shut up


Same for the fools that said I would become magnetic. Happy Camper, the tip of my boot is hungry for your nuts

😃