Looking at land to develop in the Spokane WA area, I would like to not need the grid for electricity if possible and I would likely build about an 800 square foot cabin. Money-wise, I would likely trade the expense of a bigger and more complex home for a smaller, simpler design and put that money into things like nice windows, insulation, solar, battery cell etc. Except for the bathroom, laundry and closet, I may just go with one large single room. I anticipate heating/cooling that with a ductless system and have an inline water heater. I'm probably looking at a few years out and may just park a 5th wheel on the property until building supply costs come down and I have enough funds to build.

With all that said, do people think it would be possible to supply all electric needs solely from a roof mounted solar system? Or would I need to couple it with something else? It would be me, maybe a girl friend sometimes and a dog. I know a lot of the answer depends on lifestyle. I would want to have a wall mounted flat screen and home theater system. Other than that, I would have some standard appliances.

Also, on a roof mounted system, is there a preferred roofing type? Would you need different framing or boards to support such a system?

Thanks in advance.

You might consider propane appliances wherever possible. Range, refrigerator, dryer, etc. That would take a substantial load off the solar requirement.

I agree.

I just finished building a Solar System for my property in Arizona 300 sq. ft bedroom and an additional 300 sq ft kitchen in the future.
I made some mistakes at first cutting corners with cheap inverters and mid level Charge Controllers.
My system now consists of (8) 200 Amp Hr Lithium Battery's
I did some homework after the fact and purchased the Magnum 4048 (4400Watt) (2) 30 amp 120V out lets and (1) 30 amp 240V out let in one inverter , the Magnum PT 100 MPPT Charge Controller which can put out a max. 6600 watts to the Battery's & the Magnum ME-ARTR Router
I chose Magnum because it is a Marine rated System and can be expanded fairly easily with up to (4) Inverters and (4) Charge Controllers.
At the present moment I have 1600 Watts of Solar Panels and I will add more as I use & test my System.
Everyone's power needs are different and with Solar and Wind you need to figure out what your needs are and not get caught up with what others tell you what they have.
I learned a GREAT deal from the altE Store on line.
They have a lot of YouTube Videos explaining just about question you may have about Solar.

I have a Friend up in Arizona that has an 3000 sq ft.electric home on grid. He is trying to get set up for total off grid.
He has acquired (4) Solar System trailers that were auctioned off from a company that went Bankrupt.
He is finding out that going off grid with Electric Everything in his home is costing him.
It can be done.
You will still more than likely want to have a back up generator when you do not have sun for days.
This Magnum System has a Grid Tie In (Generator Tie In) built into it so when the grid power go's out it converts over to the Battery's in a milli second according to what they say or it allows you to hook up a generator and charge the battery's with the generator while it takes some of that power to feed your electric needs.
Gas or Diesel Generators are convenient but in the long run they can get expensive to feed.
Solar is expensive up front but some what pays for itself over time.
The grid is 7 1/2 miles away from my Parcel in Arizona so it is Gas Diesel or Solar for me. The Gas and Diesel are about an hour and a half away

Good luck with what you choose to do.
Please let us know what you decide on.
There are some good company's that build good reliable systems and there are a Lot that do not build good reliable stuff at all.

Those 4x8 sheets of whatever the hellitis weigh a lot. I've picked them up and moved them. I wouldn't consider it myself but you can do whatever you wish. The question is how long will it take to recover the cost of installing them and how long before you need a new roof and have to pay to take them off and reinstall? Personally if I were to get them I would install them on the yard beside the house and let the roof do it's thing unhampered. Citizens National Bank outside of Corsicana Texas has a couple of banks of them and they take up more room than the building. How much they help with the electric bill , I have no idea. They sure are ugly though.

Good advise
When I move my System up to Arizona permanently I will be building a Carport type structure so that I can park vehicles or do work under the roof in the shade and out of the direct weather.
I already have the rack built. 1/2 at my place in Commyfornia and when I get to Arizona I will have 1/2 of it there to support the panels and get them off the ground

My System will pay for itself faster than people that have the Grid close by.
My place is remote and it will cost me just going back and forth getting Fuels for the Generator.

Like I said earlier.
Everyone's needs are different and you need to figure out what your needs are before you can make a good decision on how to fill your needs.

My Neighbor here in Commyforna just last year had a Solar System installed on the roof of his home.
He had hind sight and seen that he screwed up by not re roofing his home before the install.
The Company that Installed his System did not mention the re roof at all.
Probably so they can come back and be paid for removing the panels and re installing when he does re roof.

I asked my neighbor how many Watts he had installed and what kind of System (Inverters and Controller) he has no battery's
He gives his power to the power company (Edison) during the day and then uses the power company's power during the night.
All my neighbor could tell me about his System is that he only has to pay around $50 a month now in an Electricity Bill every month.

He has no idea of what he even has on his roof and really does not care to know.

Yes, you can provide all of your needs but you have to change mindset first.

First, understand power ain’t free

Live smaller

Third, IT IS A SUCKERS BET SELLING THE EXCESS TO THE POWER COMPANY UNLESS YOU ARE RIGGED FOR YOUR NEEDS FIRST.


They make units like this

https://ecoflow.com/

But the options are endless.

I agree that roof mounted panels only have the advantage when you don't have space on the ground for them.
Also, even in dry country, you still have multiple cloudy days when the panels don't get enough sun to charge the batteries. 5 or 6 days of clouds and you'll be out of power. You need a good backup.

I had solar panels mounted on steel poles. I could loosen and change angle to match angle of sun during season changes. I think much practical especially in winter with heavy snow fall.


I ran propane appliances. Stove, hot water heater. dryer, fridge. Propane fridges are expensive.

Had a separate power shed where batteries and generators where stored. I’d do at least a 1.5k watts of panels. 500 gal min propane tank
Propane generator or duel fuel


Go one big room with a set off bedroom and maybe one room for storage

Maybe my experience can answer part of your questions - but it's not the same setup

I bought a house fall of 2019 with rooftop solar already professionally installed. Originally rated at 7000 watts, NO STORAGE, reversible electric meter for the grid.
System originally installed in 2011, Total cost about $48,000, final cost to homeowner after federal and state tax credits was about $20,000.
NO modifications to roof needed, but roofs here have to be built for a heavy snow load to begin with. House built in 1996.

3 bedroom, 1500 sqft finished, central air, all electric except for propane heat. Northern NY location, Jefferson County, so definitely have a heating season and winter days without much solar available. Most of the time one resident.
In any given month my meter runs backwards, taking watthours off, when I make more power than I use. I don't accumulate any credit beyond a month at a time the way my usage is calculated from the monthly meter readings. My usage from the grid for last year and a half:

ReadDate & Days Read Type Total kWh
6/30/2021 & 34 Days Actual 0
5/27/2021 & 28 Days Actual 0
4/29/2021 & 30 Days Actual 17
3/30/2021 & 32 Days Actual 0
2/26/2021 & 28 Days Actual 584
1/29/2021 & 31 Days Actual 675
12/29/2020 & 34 Days Actual 805
11/25/2020 & 29 Days Actual 650
10/27/2020 & 29 Days Actual 581
9/28/2020 & 32 Days Actual 103
8/27/2020 & 29 Days Actual 0
7/29/2020 & 29 Days Actual 85
6/30/2020 & 32 Days Actual 0
5/29/2020 & 29 Days Actual 0
4/30/2020 & 31 Days Actual 0
3/30/2020 & 28 Days Actual 0
3/2/2020 & 33 Days Actual 370
1/29/2020 & 30 Days Actual 448
12/30/2019 & 34 Days Actual 760
11/26/2019 & 28 Days Actual 179
10/29/2019 & 32 Days Actual 0
9/27/2019 & 28 Days Actual 0
8/30/2019 & 4 Days Actual 0
(excel tables get screwed up when pasting into this site)

So...in general you can see I make more than enough power from April into September. Some months I send 400-500 kWh back into the grid. A major factor during the winter is my panels will get covered with snow and ice and I can get several months with just about zero generation. I expect that if I had pole mounted panels that could be repositioned seasonally - and could get snow/ice brushed off - my Oct - Mar numbers could be a lot better. Could also reduce power from grid if I had storage so I could use my own power at night.

For completely off-grid you'll need storage (probably at least several days worth) and another source of power for extended low solar output. The off grid setups I've seen around here all have backup gas, diesel or propane generators. If you're looking at a year-round residence and want reliable electricity I think you pretty much have to include a fueled generator - a large enough battery bank to cover everything for more than a few days will get real expensive.

You could also add a small wind turbine if you location has wind potential. There are also ways of generating from low-head hydro power if you have a good stream to work with.
.

You can never beat Real world information
Thanks for posting this.

I have a home system but mine is net metering with no battery back up. My system is a little undersized for my house and needs. This last month was lots of sun and my bill was $3. In December through February my bill can jump to $100 a month because my solar produces little on overcast days or when under snow.

You need to plan on some kind of generator back up because solar production can vary a lot due to conditions and battery storage gets expensive quickly. I just ordered a new F150 with a 7.2 Kwatt generator built in so I'm planning to use it as my back up generator. I can patch it directly into my main panel because I used a special panel when I built. It's supposed to run 30 hours on a tank of gas.

Everyone should start making contingency plans for heat and energy now that the Marxists are in charge.

Bb

Study the last couple years of Engineer775 vid's.
Focus on both the PV direct and the Battery powered stuff:



https://www.youtube.com/user/engineer775/videos

A primer for solar and an RV (slightly dated):

http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm#Residential%20Refrigerators

It would be nice to get hydro power from a year round creek.

It'd have to be one helluva creek to spin very much of a water turbine generator.

If you wanna learn from the basics to the most advanced in solar applications view this kids videos on YouTube.

https://youtube.com/c/WillProwse

Will Prowse: Want to build an awesome off-grid solar power system? My videos will teach you everything you need, no experience necessary

Good read, thanks. 👍

I've watched all of his videos over the years ... Will Prowse is good. He used to be homeless, his youtube videos have made him a millionaire. He knows his stuff and is a good kid.

Scott and I have known each other for a long time .... first met through The Rubicon, up in Traveler's Rest, nearly 20 years ago then he broke off to do his own thing with youtube.

I never held it against him that he is a taterhead.

All he does is system installations these days and he's good at it. We're doing a lot of solar here in SC although he seems to concentrate on the upstate of SC along with some western NC, eastern TN and northern GA.

Scott knows his stuff and, unlike Will Prowse, Scott definitely approaches his craft from an off grid prepper mentality. Last time I went up there and visited with him he had just invested in a Harvest Right feeze drier. He's got a really nice self sufficient little farm up there ... he's living the life.

We had much the same experience when we lived next door (in St Lawrence County.) If I were to do it again, I’d go for one of the arrays mounted on a post in the yard that is easier to keep the snow off and automatically tracks the sun’s position during the day for maximum power generation.

My neighbors, that is they live 1 mile away, just put up a little tiny house that is 10 ft by 22 feet. They set a bunch of solar cells in the yard. They planned on running it entirely on solar. But, on hot summer days they have a gas powered generator running 8 hours a day. Their solar cells don't make enough electricity to run the window unit a/c.

Another great resource for those who wish to live off-grid:

www.Lehman’s.com

If you are expecting to not build for a couple of years, there’s going to be several more options, mostly high end stuff. I’ve been looking at options (planning to build in a couple of years myself), and to me aesthetics are pretty important. If I’m going to live off grid on a pristine piece of property, I don’t want to look at a Rube Goldberg solar contraption. And the redhead is going to want to turn her computer on to go to work a 7 am, whether the sun is shining or not. Neither of us is enough of an engineering type to think that tinkering with the electric system is fun.

Since I’ll be building new, something like a Tesla roof is probably going to be the choice. Much better aesthetics, the cost is a little more palatable when building new, and the system is more of a “set it and forget it” deal. Substantial money, however.

There is a house North of us along hiway 95 with a solar bank about that size. It is mounted on a pole in the front yard between the house and the hiway. The entire system articulates to match the position of the sun during the seasons. And it rotates to follow the sun through the day.

I am sure that is about maximum efficiency for a solar system. I have no idea how it survives our occasional 60 mph wind storms nor if it is hail proof.

It is plain to see though what it does for the aesthetics of the property.

of course it doesnt

Ive dealt with this company for support

https://backwoodssolar.com

Or even a seasonal creek that only runs in winter. A mini hydro that can supplement solar during cloudy, inclement days.

You can probably get a lot of your energy from the panels but you'll want to have the ability to recharge your batteries with a generator for times that the sun isn't shining for a long period of time.

The Outback Radian is a good one to look at and can support a grid-tied system or just solar+generator.

Appliances depend on how easily you get propane refills and how independent you want to be.

Excellent post.

Hell, even something as simple as a water wheel in a little creek diversion would be cool to have as a backup source.

If by " backup source" you're referring to something that adds a trickle charge to your battery bank.

Like Morewood says,



You can use multiple sources to charge batteries, I use smaller solar setups and a sailboat style wind generator.

But any single source will have to be rather large to run much by itself

Had a company out just as Covid hit. I use ALOT of juice. PA pays retail back for reversing up to 200% usage. We ended at 150 panels on a spare lot got me to 145% during optimal. I was part of the team the built the most efficient solar cells in the world. Last I knew record still stands.

Anyway, played dumb, kid trying to tell me they are warrantied against degreadation for 25 years. I dig a bit deeper, what percentage? Oh less than 1%,,, in written contract?! Kid got shaken, admitted he thought it was a 30 panel house, and he’s really in marketing just filling in. I even dug into end of life disposal. Biggest outfit around I think, haven’t heard a peep since “I’ll call you Friday”. That was almost a year ago. I’d still like to do it but reputable companies are missing from the equation and numbers have to work. I own a spare lot so load it up. To me it’s easier to ground install but kid acted like it was easier to plaster my roofs, porch rails, etc. to get 40-50% usage,,,, um no I’m looking for 100%+ offset. I fully realize the cost.


From what I do recall inverters are always the weakest link. That was 40% efficient concentrator optics so extreme peaks and valleys but I’d expect the same long term on flat plate PV. Pivoting axis is definitely the way to go if you can. We used massive trackers but there’s no option there for home systems and cost would be so extreme you’d never get to net positive cash flow. I modeled our place of 7 years.

If the break even is beyond 10 years don’t bother. Off grid cabin is different. I remember being in the Adirondacks and I want to say utilities then were $1k+ per pole to run to your place.

Well over $2K here plus transformer. Two poles ended up a little over $8k, and that was with a minimum use guarantee of $300 per month, IIRC, to qualify for some cost share from the utility.

A hookup a quarter mile from the line would be about $20K around here. That’s 2/3rds of a Tesla roof with a power wall. But no bills from the power company with solar.