Swathing 2nd and 3rd cutting irrigated alfalfa.

Absolutely the shortest hay I've ever cut. Outside borders next to the trees are a total loss.

Sickening the amount of damage. And I know it wasn't grasshoppers, the tops are nipped off by deer.


Googled it, figure a deer eats 10lbs per day?


Field I'm on now has a house on one side, nothing but a couple hundred acres of cover on the opposite side.

2' tall by the house, maybe 6" by the trees.


Figure we lost +100 ton of prime feed this summer. $30k.


And yeah, we let locals hunt but they won't shoot does.


I'm at a loss, no pun intended.

You be surprised how much they can eat.

I’ve put out chicken wire cages in food plots just to gauge.

Everything will be an couple inches tall. Inside the cage will be knee high or better.

Ps. Find some locals that’ll shoot does.

Pray for a better one next year man.

Thought everybody loved freezer pleasers ?

I’ve hunted with folks over the years that wouldn’t shoot does.

Buck hunters.

Camp i was in joined the DMAP program. You was in contact with a state biologist. He’d / or maybe it was a she would send a report each spring after the checked all jawbones you sent it.

After killing more does, Deer body weights went up.

You only have X amount of food/ browse.

After a couple years it went from average 75# does to around 100# with 120# being killed.


Kill does. Eating machines.

Our last alfalfa patch was up against some woods owned by city-folk who hunted their woods for deer. They stopped by one time wondering when we would plant crops on our property again to attract deer. D'oh!

We all have crop damage, Sam. Only the scale and livelihood status differs.

My raspberries were getting hammered earlier in the summer, so I Nigerian rigged moose exclosure from materials at hand one day. Damage continued- figured it was a fence crawling calf. Took care of that opening. Damage continued - I think it is a danged porcupine - maybe hares, but I think porky.. If I see the danged thing - well.....

It is pulling down, braking off stems and feeding on the leaves at the top and tips at night.

The worst part is that it only targets next year's producing canes, not this year's stalks, which are now done producing.

Had to put up some more barricade two days ago - so far so good.

As for your deer- them things are edible, you know?......

I hunted in Coleman county, central Texas, bunches of deer on that place. The first 20 rows of milo wouldn’t have cshit on them. They hit the winter wheat hard while it was green, but stopped eating it in the spring. The deer would eat the cotton blooms, don’t see how they made a cotton crop.

Know a farmer here that had a 40 acre field of it on top of a hill surrounded by woods that looked like a golf course all summer. Said the deer just kept it mowed right down to nothing.

I was hunting in ND for Pheasants once. Found a spot where someone had dumped 6 or 7 does. Sad.

My Fairbanks brother - now deceased, used to grow oats for hay. Moose would start feeding on it soon after it came up, but he said they confined themselves to the same spots all summer long, continuing to feed on the newer growth there.

Have Gun, Will Travel.

I was hunting just west of Plenty Wood one year.Stopped at a Ranch and asked permission to hunt.He said sure as long as we killed every Whitetail I saw.I have a friend who farms around Medicine Lake.He had a pile of sheds in his backyard taken out of hay in the spring.Deer are eating machines.

Interesting Sam. I was wondering about how much a deer might eat. And how that would affect a farmer/rancher.

Neighbor had about 40 deer, mostly does and this years fawns, one decent buck, feeding in his pivot field Tuesday evening. Happens every fall and in the spring when the alfalfa comes up. His swather broke for a minute a couple of weeks back, I saw him and stopped. He fixed it the next day apparently, but left what was left to cut for his cows. Said with the drought there's no graze on his land and his allotments for them, so he just gave them about 1/2 of his last cutting, some of which I know he usually ships out as "dairy quality" stuff.

at 10lbs ration per deer per day, the neighbor is losing between 250-500 lbs of product per day depending on the number of deer I see there every day, and not telling if more show up at night. Doesn't seem to mind, as I've never heard of him putting in for a depredation permit. And there is no doe season in our area so those critters are safe when they go into the public land to bed down even.

Can't do it this year, maybe next season I look into coming up your way and "removing" a doe for you if your locals won't do it. I'm old, will have my own place to sleep, and I'm past the point of abusing pillows so you won't have to worry about that.

Had a farmer here that told me the same. He hated deer with a passion and saw them as nothing but pests.. Carried a rifle on his tractors all the time and would shoot any deer he saw in his fields year round..

Not a farmer (my grandparents were) and not to be argumentative in the least, but there has to be a difference between green/wet browse and cut and dried baled feed products?
It can't be a pound-for-pound equation.

I was the manager of a grain elevator in the mid 70s, in Mississippi. The farmers there begged me to come and hunt their bean fields, and I did. They also spot lighted deer and gut shot them with 22 rim fires. I sure don’t condone that, but it happened.
I guess if those deer are costing you $10,000 or multiples of that, you have decisions to make.

No depredation permits available?

We have a couple of soybean fields that are next to good deer habitat that look like someone ran a lawn mower over the first 25' of field that abutts the woods. I don't know how much they ate, but at over $12 per bushel we lost at least a few thousand dollars of income.

20+ years ago I lived in NW PA. The county I lived in had 25,000 doe permits available. On average less then half were passed out to folks. And I knew folks who advocated applying for them to keep them from being used at all, just get it and toss it in the trash so you could keep the "breeders" alive and not in someone's freezer. Old thinking left over from Grandpa's day when the deer were trying to recover from being decimated. The old "don't shoot does where you hunt your buck" line of thought.

Funny thing was, some of them folks would shoot a button buck or a 2" spike just to say "I got my buck again this year. Haven't been skunked since '67 " and then they could shave their hunting season beard.

Some of our local farmers refer to deer as rats with hooves. Tremendous amounts of crop damage.

Samo, have an orphanage hunt where the hunters donate processed does to a local or state group home.

We rent one of our fields to a local farmer. He usually plants soybeans. On the corners against 2 woodlines it's the same as you mention. I've watched a doe with her two fawns in one of the corners for weeks now.

Gentlemen, we are located on an Indian reservation, we own the land but there is a grey area in regards to 'non-natives' coming in and shooting deer.


In a nut shell we are outside the jurisdiction of MTFWP.



And I'm figuring in losses on dry matter. I know how many bales we normally get compared to what is out there now.

And the thing is, the deer nibble the crowns off and it sorta stunts the growth of the plant. They might eat an ounce or two of green/growing alfalfa which in turn might result in a pound less of production.

And don't get me started on wintertime haystack damage....lol

Ever have foggy days there?

Liberals.

They tear up the beans and corn , even eat cotton when its a young tender plant .

Adopt a family of coon asses, that should take care of your deer problem.

Maybe I can gain a little weight, I'm fairly "chunky" as it stands already, and use Conrad's ID and come as an Eskimo? Think them fellas would let me hunt then?

How does one get to be a member of Sam's clan?

If they are hitting the crowns those plants won't last long at all.

Maybe require them to? If a landowner allowed me to hunt their property and required me to shoot does too, I'd be tickled.

My best friends Dad had 10 acres of alfalfa planted as a flod plot. You could drive by it after dark and shine the field and it looked like a city. I would guess a couple hundred in it.They ate it down to bare stems.

The guys that won't shoot does are a peculiar lot - particularly when deer are abundant (or over-abundant).
Many will take a "meat buck" if they don't see something bigger and I just wanna say WTF - shoot a meat doe or three for cryin-out-loud.

Sammerz - sorry the deer are hitting you where it hurts.

Might be time for an ultimatum to those local hunters.

Hmong immigrants could handle that in short order. Build em a little shack off the edge of the woods, problem solved.

Have you watched a cat hack up a Furball?

Get the word out on the Rez that your allowing people to shoot does only.


Then lock all your chidt up tight!


lol

Sam, what about the tribal game department or Council? Can't you say, hey, I have many does and the elders need meat?

Tell your hunters to shoot some does if legal or they can't come back.

If that' s not legal does the state offer destruction tags?


Kill the freeloaders or feed 'em.

A 12-pack of Pabst for each doe killed should take care of your insoluble dilemma in a single season.

People value things that cost more than what is given. I think your locals don't appreciate what they have. Start charging and requiring a certain number of does shot to be invited to pay again next year.

If you were nearer FL you'd have people shooting everything that moves and paying $25/acre to do it

Offer them something everyone wants, like getting to enjoy a beer with Sammo for every doe they shoot!

Poor Sam.....he fed the deer more winter forage than I put up all year.


If I had Sam's hay I would burn mine.....

Couple months ago went to a outdoor show.

Kinda local to me “outfitter” was there. BS’ed with him a minute.

Asked him how hunting was… blah blah.

Said hogs were about to put him outta the deer business.

Tearing up everything…. Add the climatic movie music.

I asked if he does hog hunts. I wouldn’t mind killing some during off season.

Oh yeah. A trophy hog hunt is $500.

How many hogs? 1.

WTF??

You over run with hogs but want folks to pay $500 per pig?

Lawd have mercy.

I will pray for him.

Sam, dig a ditch, AR with a suppressor and a thermal, 30 rd mags, tractor with loader to fill ditch. Easy Peasy.

Dude acted kinda strange.

Maybe Jehovahs Witness.

Got one in your book for them?

We’ve put out 250lbs of corn all year behind the cabin.

We don’t shoot there (notice I didn’t say hunt).

We feed the deer, bear, squirrel, flying squirrel, turkey, [bleep], birds or whatever. We enjoy seeing the wildlife.

Even put out about 15-20 lbs of bird seed.

I’m good for 8, maybe 10 if they’re small.

Whitetail does?

A deer eats 2.5% of it's body weight in dry matter per day. Keep in mind that some forage is up to 80% moisture. We kill 50-60 doe a year and need to kill a 100, just can't find the people to give them to. I feel for the farmers who feed the states deer for free.

Everything is deer food here. They'll eat grasses if they have to, but it's not really their gig. That's why people try to bait 'em with corn.

A lot of the places here in WY that still allow hunters to come on without paying a trespass fee make them “earn” a buck. Have to kill a couple does before you can kill a buck. Something to consider.

Hunters won’t shoot does?
Easy fix, don’t permit them to shoot a buck till they kill at least one doe and can prove it.

Deer management 101...kill as many does as you can. That old "don't kill the breeding stock" bullshit is just that...bullshit. Unless you just want a bunch of does.

Deer eat my soybeans, particularly when they are 2 to 4 inches tall. A herd of 20 deer, feeding every night on new beans, can do serious damage. I get free tags from the state for damage control, but I hate shooting them and dragging them to the edge of a field to rot. State won't allow them to be processed unless they are killed during open deer season.

This on deaded ground,

Dammit man that sucks. I used to hunt antlers til all of my stuff got stolen,antlers included.
Now I am happy killing does.and enjoying the good eating.
Not sure why more people won't kill does.

Been saying that for years!

And I thought Pa had bad laws.
Can you pick up a roadkill?

Our farmers kill them and make them available to the wardens.
Not sure on gutting.
The wardens keep a list, and drop off deer to people who request them.

I think perhaps not shooting does is a macho, cultural thing.

And maybe I whine too much.

Georgia's Best will take them for hunters for the hungry. https://gwf.org/ghfth/#

I don't mind shooting them, usually better eating.

On a average year we kill about 250 does and 125 bucks every year, if we don't we are covered up with deer, we are required by the Texas Parks and Wildlife, to survey our ranch and count every Whitetail we see, we report our numbers to TP&W and they give us the tags, and tell us how many deer to kill, sounds like fun, HUH! after the first 100 deer, it turns into work, last year we gave away over 6000# of processed venison meat, Rio7

Nothing but long legged rats.Friend lost about 25 acres of corn to them last year. They get into the corn when it is about 3 ft high. Get there water from the pivot head from the sprinklers that always leak a bit and don't come out of the corn until a combine drives them out

FWIW, I'm gonna cry some more....lol


Middle of field I'm on right now.

Maybe 2 ton/acre and clean.





Corner of same field next to cover.

Maybe 200lbs to the acre and full of weeds.




Just counted 6 little bucks and a few does. They DGAF...

How many does can a non res hunter take?

I'm thinking maybe this is not a deer problem. The deer have been there for years, right? Could it be a "not so good growing year" issue? Not looking to spark a contest of wills, just asking.....

My grandpappy grew corn in Iowa, from the 20's until 1977 when he passed, so there's my bona fides.

I'd say if it's growing good in the center, and not where the deer hang out, then it's the deer. Especially if you see a bunch of deer in that area, that means there's probably even more in there in the dark.

Boy, that's some good looking hay in that first pic. We raised alfalfa in Roswell New Mexico when I was a young boy. We left there to buy a dairy in East Texas in '74 when I was 13. The hay may be taller than we had there and Roswell was noted for primo Alfalfa.

I don't feel one bit sorry for the guys whining about hogs ruining their land if they charge through the ass to shoot them.

Non res or non rez?

Big difference!

Have done some damage hunting on my stepfathers farm in the past years.
Had 5 doe on the ground the morning of 9/11/01 when I got in my truck and heard 'the news'.

He plants 5-7 acres of feed corn annually and always tried to hide a couple of rows of sweet corn within.
It did not matter where or how he planted the sweet corn, the deer got it all[first] every year.
Mature doe are nothing but eating machines!

How many tags can a non-res get? I'd be glad to pop does for my empty freezer.

Also, nice looking alfalfa. I have the same swather. If I could get it onto my car trailer I'd come help you cut. I miss my hay fields, but not irrigating all night.

We can kill 2 bucks and 10 does, but I dont know anyone that ever does it. My family of four only goes through about 3 for deer a year. No reason for us to shoot more. You got people that want you to kill them a deer but then dont want to pay for the processing. Only time I give some away is if I still have one in the freezer from the season before once the upcoming season starts. I stopped feeding them, hogs ate most of it and hang around to much and the deer seem to hate them.

As far as 500 dollar hogs, I dont see the big deal. Those guides usually have some really nice thermal scopes and setups, doing this at night before they have to go to real job in the am, etc. I've gotten plenty of pms considering my location about hog hunts and folks willing to pay. I dont have the time..but if I did and someone wanted to give me 500 bucks, I wouldnt feel bad about it one bit. Funny, I've run across 3 different pigs that were 450-550lbs, every time all I had was a shotgun with me with rabbit or either turkey loads. We have one my son calls the couch pig, because when we walked up on him we though someone dumped a black couch on the property.

I don’t charge for access but I also rarely give it out. Used to have an open gate policy till I realized that pigs had never thrown beer cans in the pasture, set up where they would be shooting towards the field my kids are playing in, cutting donuts in the creek Ford so that it was unusable without dozer work, caught bass and left them laying on the pond bank, etc. but I’ve had hunters who wanted to help me with my hog problem do all those things. So between the two I would rather deal with the pigs and can see why some landowners charge for strangers to hunt pigs.

When I was at Ft. Bragg, I was told of similar things happening in Northern North Carolina, in the peanut fields there. Depredation permits were easy to get, and required the landowner to leave the deer carcasses in the field. I never made it up there to see for myself, but I have no reason to disbelieve the feller who told me about it.

if any of you guys need help shooting does let me know. especially after the first of the year.

i got 4 kids to feed and 10 siblings with over 50 nieces and nephews

Just get yourself a depredation permit Sam if Montana allows it.
Economic damage reasons.
Carry a rifle in the tractors.
See if 2 or 3 other shooters are allowed on it.
Then Pol Pot as many as you can when you can when your not working.

I wouldn't blink an eye about meat waste.
Dig a big ole pit: reference ethnic cleansing
Srebrenica style.
Kill a bunch, put a layer of dirt over em.
Repeat....

Get 2 for 1,s
Or even 3 for 1,s
After the does have been bred.
Dec Jan Feb
Even better if they yard up in the winter and ya got 2 or 3 guys with eyes on em that can shoot.
Any angle presented where a bullet drives thru the vitals

Big doe
Big doe
Big doe

3 2 1
Bang
Then individual dumbazz ones that present a shot wondering what the fugg just happened whatever sex or age they are.

Just slip loop ropes around their necks and drag em to the pit however far away.



You need to put a dent in the fawn recruitment .
Prego does yarded up .
Even better if the state allows baiting in conjunction with a depredation permit.

Then start killing young bucks after the doe #,,s dwindle.


Hunters aint doing it for ya # wise for sure....

Man if was your neighbor and you said you have a problem with your bank account from deer and a depredation permit had me covered.

I would kill the schit outta some does for ya and haul em to your disposal pit.



But I,m not your neighbor.......