Greetings,

I'm sitting here at work, going over a DUI case. My client says that he puts Wild Turkey in his chew to "enhance the flavor." I have never heard of that before, and up til now, I thought I'd heard it all when it comes to defenses.

Has anybody ever heard of putting whiskey in your chewing tobacco?

How is that a defense? how much coulkd he have added, a quart?
did he blow?
how high?
did he refuse to blow?
what were the results of the FSTand the HGN?
Im pretty sure washington has a law that to get a DL you have to be willing to submit to a BA upon request.
What was the PC for the initial stop?
there are chews, cigars and pipe smokes that have added liqure flavorings. they are not going to cause a read on an intoxilizer.

Used to put Jerimiah Weed in Copenhagen....

There's one flavor of Copenhagen that has whiskey "flavor" in it, tried it once, was Copenehagen Black mebbe?

Could see how you'd aquire whiskey breath from flavorin' yer snuff.......

You never heard of it?

You just take a plug of chaw and put it in your mouth, then you put some Wild Turkey in your mouth, then you put some more Wild Turkey in your mouth, then some more...

copenhagen black is the bourbon flavored one and have a dip of it in my mouth now but it does nto have real bourbon. used to take copenhagne cans tat got dried out and put a little crown royal (maybe 1 - 1 1/2 cc's) in it to moisten it up and add a thin slice of green apple and let sit for a few days in the fridge, was a good treat.

i agree with the consensus thus far, you just cant add enough whiskey in a 1 1/2 oz chew can to make much of a difference on a pbt if there is even a dip or two fo chew left in it as the can itself is the size of a single shot glass

Regardless of whether one blows or not, is "drunk" or not...here, if a gent gets pulled over and has whiskey on his breath he's got heap big trouble to contend with...

IOW, if the LEO smells it on you...you'd be needing a lawyer most likely.

I know an old boy that puts brandy in his.

Wade,

I've known a few guys that will add bourbon or brandy to snuff, but mostly it's just to moisten up an old can.

Mike

No mouth check was conducted by the cop prior to the administration of the Portable Breath Test. Consequently, the client may have been blowing whiskey into the mouthpiece--which, of course, produces false positves. The alcohol is from the mouth, not the bloodstream.

It would not take more than a drop half the size of the head of a pin to produce a BAC reading of .20 or higher.

Yep. I used to drink and smoke, ( and chew), and do the hootchie kootchie.

I generally only chewed during hunting season and my snuff and/or my 'little bandits' would tend to dry out. My cure was to pour a little whiskey in or on 'em to keep 'em moist.

Of course I'm reformed now and most of that stuff is a vague memory. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wade,
Yep...I've heard of it.Peppermint schnapps sounds good in redman sounds yum.

Sounds like a case could be made then.......

Typical lawker BS.
"It would not take more than a drop half the size of the head of a pin to produce a BAC reading of .20 or higher."

So he wasnt transported and put on a breathalizer?
So he kept the chew in his mouth during the entire observation period?
Was there a can or pouch of chew listed on his inventory sheet when he was prosessed?


Thats why they wont let cops be on jurys.

I hope you make good money off this guy, but, be prepared to give him a ride home.

Was a FST perfomed?
HGN?

I used to put Blackberry brandy in my chew, when I used to chew.

That's a good question.


SS

Whne a teenager, my friends and I would let our copenhagen get a little dry on purpose then moisten it with 151 Bacardi.

Some old timers did, and some of it is still cured with whiskey/bourbon commercially. Have no idea how much if any alcohol remains. Nor, no idea if possible to effect alcohol test, but might make one's breath smell "alcohol" like.

Get Mythbusters to test it out... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


SS

My Gradpa has put Whisky in his chew for as long as I can remember.

IIRC the chew really soaks up quite a bit of the Whisky.

ABSOLUTELY!
Although I rarely do it anymore. Brandy is best. I have an old high school buddy that swears by Slo Gin. Of course, we're talking Copenhagen here. Users of other brands may have their own recipes....

Casey

My father in law used to dip his cigar in his whisky, take a couple of puffs and dip it again. It seemed such a natural thing that I never never thought about it much.

Cohiba,

I really hadn�t planned on trying my case to the forum here, but since it means so much to you, let me address some of your concerns:

1. This isn�t �typical lawyer BS� it�s a man�s life. It�s his personal liberty (Washington has mandatory jail upon conviction). It�s his livelihood (He has a job and would like to keep it). It is his right to justice (He contends he was not under the influence).

2. Do you know how much alcohol is involved in a breathalyzer test? It only takes about 20/1,000,000 of a gram of alcohol in a breath sample to get a BAC reading of .08. You can easily fit 20/1,000,000 of a gram of alcohol on the head of a pin. The underlying science of any BAC machine depends on testing a breath sample that is free of mouth alcohol. �Mouth alcohol� is just that--alcohol that comes from the person�s mouth, not their bloodstream. If I take 2 drops of whiskey, and rub it in my mouth (like on the inside of my cheek, on my tongue, or inside of my lip) and then take a breath test, I would likely blow .30 or higher! That�s because I�m blowing pure alcohol into the machine. If there was alcohol in this man�s chew, it would totally compromise the breath test results. Like it or not, it�s true. The cop failed to clear the man�s mouth and wait 15 minutes prior to the portable breath test. That�s the cop�s problem for not doing his job.

3. No, there is not breathalyzer in my case. So naturally, there is no observation period.

4. No, there is no record of whether he had a can of chew on him at the time of arrest. He was cited and released. When that happens, the client is not booked into jail so there is no inventory done on his possessions.

5. No cops on juries? You�re wrong there too. I have twice left a cop on my jury and got Not Guilty verdicts both times.

6. Field Sobriety Testing: Yes my guy did the physical tests. He did quite well, but when you factor in that he weighs almost 350lbs, I�d say he did fantastic! Ever seen a 350lb man try to stand on one leg for 30 seconds?

So, yes, it is possible that the cop arrested somebody who was NOT in violation of the law (shocking I know, but true). I will present factual evidence and argue it to the jury. The prosecutor will do the same, and the jury will decide. I have no problem with that.

And to everyone that took the time to answer my inquiry: Thank you. I appreciate your time!

If he wasnt under the influence why did he not request blood?
Your right, its a matter of life and death. I would think that with those kids on your lap you would care if drunks were all over the road.
He was pulled for a reason.
He was suspected of drinking for a reason.
Dont expect us to think for a second that cops want to take the time and effort required to prosses a DUI because he has whiskey flavored chew.
and just out of curiosity. has your client ever been stopped for or charged w/ this before?
was he leaving a drinking establishment?

I, think lots of us have benefitted from this. I have and still do put a few drops on my copenhagen. I had no idea this could make that big of a difference. Guess I'll stop, as I don't want nor need the hassel this can create. Thanks Wade.
--Mike

Your client should be horse whipped for tainting his good whiskey with the evil weed, tobacco.

'Hiba...

You don't have a [bleep]' clue as to the circumstances at play here...other than the understandably limited details Waders has presented.

But, you just keep on doing what you do best............

Listen,... I'm a Kentuckian,...the next county over is "Bourbon" county where the stuff was invented.

No matter what anybody tells ya,...... ain't nobody consumes bourbon in any way, shape, or form because they like it's taste. They consume it to get a buzz.

If ya want something that tastes good, make yourself a butterscotch malt.

I like the taste of Bourbon.........

Yeah, I don't chew anymore, but used to put a little whiskey in my Skoal. Only a cap full or 2, but from your info that's all it takes.

Probly get flamed here, but the burden of proof rest on the state. They shoulda run him in for a blood test.
7mm

Wrong.

1. Why didn�t he request blood? I�ll bet he wish he had. But in Washington, he has no right to a State-funded blood draw. He did not think about getting a blood draw. Many everyday folk don�t know how to best protect their rights.

2. Yes, he was pulled over for a reason: 62 mph in a 55 mph zone. No swerving. No weaving. Nothing but the speed violation.

3. Yes, he was suspected of drinking for a reason. The cop immediately saw a bottle of whiskey in the center console. It was more than 9/10 full.

4. No prior criminal offenses. 2 prior speeding tickets in last 7 years.

5. No he was not leaving a drinking establishment. He raises oysters for a living and was on his way home from meeting a potential buyer.

I am not going to respond to the rest of your post. Some folks tend to believe that anybody who gets stopped is guilty. Many are guilty of something. Some aren�t. It�s just the way of it. Some people believe that defense attorneys �hide the ball� and are out to deceive the jury. That perception stems from what the average person thinks he should be told in court and is angry when it doesn�t happen. The judge is there to make sure that both lawyers follow the rules. If you do not like how the attorneys are allowed to present their cases, your frustration should be with �the system� not the attorneys.

Anyway, I only posted here to see if anybody had heard of moistening tobacco with alcohol�and it�s plain that it is a fairly common practice. That is what I needed to know. I did not want to proffer a false defense.

Again, thanks everybody for your help. I don�t think I will be posting in this thread anymore. I need to get some other things done. But I do appreciate the responses!

Waders,
I understand your point, but I can't see how whiskey in chew will cause a reading on an intoxilizer. If there was any observation period at all (at least 10 minutes) the saliva was either spit out or swallowed which would have diluted the remaining whiskey. It may have caused an odor if the defendant put the chew in his mouth just as his vehicle stopped and the officer walked up to the car and smelled what he thought was the remanants of an alcoholic drink. That would have been a dumb thing to do. Talk about getting the wrong kind of attention.

We have played around with alcohol based mouth wash and after swishing a couple of ounces we tested and if you blow a short breath (mouth air) it will test high, probably well over .200. If you wait 5 minutes it might test .050. If you wait 10 minutes it might register.005. An intoxilzer uses deep lung air, well past what would be in a person's mouth. If the defendant did not want to test at all then he has invoked implied consent, regardless of what his resaons were. Now it's time to attack the reason for the stop and for the field sobriety test, if any. If the officer was doing his job right, he had some observation time before he turned on his red lights or he hopefully had some observation time before he asked for the field sobriety test. I have yet to have an intoxilizer measure anything but alcohol. Not chew, not penny's under the tongue, not bad breath, not someone with diabetes. I'm more concerned about a piece of tobacco getting in the intoxilizer somewhere and plugging it up.

If you are dumb enough to put whiskey flavored chew in your mouth or not take it out before a police officer wants to test you for an alcohol violation; especially if you are sober, I guess he better be ready to suffer the consquences. Personally, I would attack the stop and field sobriety test and the results of the sobriety test. Maybe even bring up the issue of the officer asking about anything in his mouth just to create some doubt about the officers skills and potentially messing up the intoxilizer.

I can see a jury now, If you tell them about whiskey in chewing tobacco they are going to say "yea, right" and convict him. Just my thoughts. good luck. kwg

Cops sure can be fickle. I was in a hurry one night. I was doing 90 in a 70. I'd had a couple of beers an hour before. I weigh 200 lb.

I got stopped. He asked me if I'd been drinking and being the honest sort I told the truth. He told me drinking and driving was illegal and I told him that I wasn't impaired and I'd take any test he'd like to prove it to him. One thing I said was, "Two beers an hour ago, body weight of 200 lb. you can do the math on that one in your head".

He never even asked me to step out of the truck. He also didn't write me for speeding. I wasn't surly but I wasn't contrite. I stuck to the facts. Maybe he liked my truck or something.

way to totally blow another Cohiba......Blake

Wade;

Reasonable doubt, right?

Well, IMHO, you've likely got enough to raise it.

Good luck.

And, yeah, I like the taste of bourbon...

Had to take a couple of wiz quizzes at the last job after putting Southern Comfort in dried out cans of Copenhagen.Had to laugh as I was the only lead man out of 7 that could pass a wiz quiz <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
After passing the wiz quizzes I also had a nice officer give me a Breathalyzer after taking a big whiskey laced chew and passed that too.
Not saying your client is guilty but he would have to do better if I was in the jury box!

I also like the taste of bourbon, especially the higher quality ones. Blantons single barrel has been the best so far.

If I just want a buzz I mix rum or cheap bourbon and coke. To enjoy the fine flavor I put some good stuff in a small glass and sip it. Very rarely it's accompanied by a ceegar.

I also had a nice officer give me a Breathalyzer after taking a big whiskey laced chew and passed that too.
***********************************************

guessing it depends on how recently the whiskey's been added........if it was fairly recent than chances of failing a breathilizer are prolly likely..............if it was added a couple days before your likely to pass with flying colors i should think.........

I have always had this fear so now after I add i gonna let it set awhile

My grandpa used to put perscription cherry cough medicine with codiene in his "chew".

Said it gave it more "kick".

WB.

Waders,

Seems to me you have a good case. I've only been on the other end and It appears that you've got plenty of doubt built in. Any offers from the prosecutor?

Mac

Doesn't have anything to do with getting a dooey, but an interesting anecdote none the less.

A few years ago at our workplace, we had one habitual mooch. He was always mooching a "dip" off of any one he thought was generous enough to share and absolutely never had a can of his own.

In the rest room, we had one six foot long porcelain urinal where everybody stood side by side to take a leak. One of the "Mooch's" favorite benefactors was standing at the urinal doing his business one day when the "Mooch" stepped up beside him to whiz.

The "Benefactor" finished but reached into his back pocket for his can of Cope before putting his business away. The "Benefactor" pulled off the lid from the almost empty can of dried up tobacco and shook the last couple of glistening drops into the can, then calmly put things away and zipped up.

The "Mooch" was watching and in a horrified voice asked "WTF did you just do?"

"Benefactor" responded "Oh, that is how I keep the old stuff moist. When I get home I'll add a little to this can from a new one."

The "Mooch" left the restroom with a sick green cast to his face and then the "Benefactor" tossed the can of Cope into the trashcan and opened a new can from his locker.

He said that he never again was asked by the "Mooch" to share a can of chew.

I put Jagermeister in my Cope. At least now, if Mister Profile Stop gets me, I'll be on the game.

Waders
Interesting?My grandfather moistened his snuff all the time with whiskey or what was handy I suppose.I have seen him do it time and time again.Myself after seeing my grandfather do it I would say it's very possible.Also it didn't matter how much he put in you could always smell boozey snuff if that makes any sence to ya.

Best of luck Waders.