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Posted By: pullit License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Anyone using some type of blocker to keep all the cameras from reading your plates?
I know there are at least 2 type the spray on and the film type. Does one work better than the other and do they really work?
Saw on the local news where there are more and more of the cameras being installed and used around our area. Not trying to get away with anything, just don't want big brother watching everywhere I go.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
They are all equally effective. Meaning not at all.
Posted By: SandBilly Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Never heard of it but I want it, whatever it is.
Posted By: wilkeshunter Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Interesting!
Posted By: pullit Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
https://www.amazon.com/license-plate-camera-blocker/s?k=license+plate+camera+blocker

Here is a read on it
https://blog.appwinit.com/license-plate-camera-blockers/





Posted By: ruffcutt Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
ALPR’s , automatic license plate readers, are showing up all over. I don’t know if all patrol cars are outfitted with them now or not. But I’ve recently seen them mounted on overpasses and an unmarked patrol car whose only purpose was to scan license plates.
Posted By: 280Rem1 Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
"They" know everything you are doing already... you are using a cell phone.
Posted By: Fireball2 Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Black Krylon works pretty well. I'd pay extra for the Ultra Super Stealth flat black.
Posted By: ruffcutt Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Mostly used to check for outstanding warrants but can be used to track a vehicle if need be.
Posted By: BigDave39355 Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Around here,

Folks rode around with a paper “Tag applied For” tag on their car 6-12 months after they by it….


Maybe they on to something.
Posted By: pullit Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Originally Posted by 280Rem1
"They" know everything you are doing already... you are using a cell phone.


I never turn on my location on my phone unless I have to. I know they can still ping you but that just gets you in the area.
Posted By: AZmark Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
My son is a detective in the crime against children unit and they use the plate scanners to find pedofiles and perps with outstanding warrants. So if your following in pedo Joes footsteps watchout.
Posted By: ruffcutt Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Originally Posted by BigDave39355
Around here,

Folks rode around with a paper “Tag applied For” tag on their car 6-12 months after they by it….


Maybe they on to something.


If you feel the need to travel untracked keep an advertisement plate from a car lot under your regular plate. “Joe’s A1Cars” just in case you need it, it’s there.
Posted By: Strider1 Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
[Linked Image from media.giphy.com]
Posted By: Cheyenne Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
If the technology does work, it still may run afoul of local statutes dealing with display of license plates or alteration of license plates. If it is used to avoid tolls, it may amount to theft. Check your local laws.
Posted By: pullit Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
According to the link I posted TN allows it. I got that off the innerweb so you know it has to be right......
Posted By: Hubert Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
If you Drive 65+ MPH the cameras are not fast enough to get your Number at red lights....
Posted By: Tackleman Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Against the law in Arizona
Posted By: Hastings Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Mud works
Posted By: slumlord Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
People been getting pulled over for 20 years for having license plate lenses over their tag.

We have had red light cams for a LONG time.

All of my brother in law’s mini truck buds used to get hassled constantly about it. Was another probably cause to sniff you pot or booze

All such are outlawed in Florida.
Posted By: gonehuntin Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
I dodge a tollway camera once a week by lowering my tailgate and removing my front license plate.
Posted By: ribka Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Originally Posted by ruffcutt
ALPR’s , automatic license plate readers, are showing up all over. I don’t know if all patrol cars are outfitted with them now or not. But I’ve recently seen them mounted on overpasses and an unmarked patrol car whose only purpose was to scan license plates.


Every major interstate highway has lot’s. Every major city and now smaller cities have them everywhere . Combine that with your smart phone which is pinged by every WiFi signal, cell towers other phones

No privacy
Posted By: luvrifles Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Illegal in NY. Got a ticket for having dirt on my plate. I was pulled over for doing 82 in a 65. Joked with the trooper and said I thought I was doing 80. It was 2 days from Christmas, he wrote me up for the plate. Merry Christmas sir.
Posted By: Dillonbuck Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Pa did away with the annual plate sticker with registration renewal several years ago. They have plate readers now. And automatically know if
your registration is good.

Daughter was driving the 03 Impala we had just bought, saw a cop
pulling into the median as she turned at the red light. She watched,
And he never slowed down. He pulled right out and pulled her over.

Scared her to death!

Reason for pulling her over.
Driving a Chevy with a plate registered to a Subaru.
The paperwork hadn't cleared Harrisburg yet.

How do you think he knew that so dam fast.
Had to be driving the car, looking at the screen.
Unless they have a scanner that can ID car make also.
Posted By: LouisB Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
The first I saw were on the BAT cars on I-40 in Memphis.

Later they seemed to be aimed for airplanes . . .

Understand that there were too many hits if they kept them monitoring normal traffic.
Posted By: Bwana_1 Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
I guess I don't have any reason to hide my license plate, but they scan it for payment when you travel our turnpike.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
I looked into the spray and the covers and the general consensus is that they do little, if anything, to obscure the license plate from cameras and license plate readers.

The only device that I found that works is a louvered license plate cover, which obscures it from certain angles - such as cameras mounted on bridges and poles. From straight on, the plate is clearly visible. Unfortunately, they haven't been available for quite some time.

Freedom and the expectation of privacy are long gone in America today.
Posted By: jackmountain Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
All the cool kids in the nitrous powered Honda Civic's put a mix of I's and 1's on their plates
II11I11 or 11I11I11I to confuse cops/cameras when they're being chased.
Posted By: VinceM Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Duct Tape
Posted By: PaulBarnard Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Originally Posted by pullit
Anyone using some type of blocker to keep all the cameras from reading your plates?
I know there are at least 2 type the spray on and the film type. Does one work better than the other and do they really work?
Saw on the local news where there are more and more of the cameras being installed and used around our area. Not trying to get away with anything, just don't want big brother watching everywhere I go.


You are talking about red light and speed cameras rather than the license plate readers patrol cars have right?
they supposedly have blue tooth trackers on the side of the road now...
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Most states take the logical and reasonable position that there is no legal reason to obscure your vehicle license plate. Doing so is prima facie evidence that you are intent on breaking some law or other. It is hard to argue with that.

And besides, none of them work.
Big brother has satellites and drones that can read the screen on your phone without you seeing or hearing them so a tag reader is just one of many forms they could use against you...I'd not bother with the concealer unless you can remove it while driving to other states that may not allow it.
https://www.flocksafety.com/
Posted By: reivertom Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Don't speed is the only sure way to beat the cameras.
Posted By: Houston_2 Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Originally Posted by Hubert
If you Drive 65+ MPH the cameras are not fast enough to get your Number at red lights....


Got me doing 80+ mph taking a buddy to the hospital late at night and a small town roadside traffic speed camera got me also.
Posted By: Jim_Conrad Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Just steal someone else's plates.
Posted By: Dillonbuck Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Saw some news show about covers being used to avoid tolls in NYC.
Which is a huge thing if you've never been there.


Tons of money being lost, the news crew went to the police to
get their take on it. When driving up to the station, they noticed
an awful lot of the cars parked there had the plate covers. Later
investigation revealed those were owned by cops.


Saw it on tv.

No idea if it was true.
Posted By: Happy_Camper Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
"If you don't have anything to hide, then...'

The best policy is to realize that gt loves you and his servants are just trying to keep you safe. There's cameras everywhere for a reason. Just ask the Chinese social credit score developers. Just ask Singapore police. There's a reason there's cameras pointed at the sinks and urinals.....to make sure everyones hands are clean, they might need clubbed in the head and privates now and then to make sure of sanitation...for their own good.
Take a Sunday drive to the range?
Make sure you have proper permits for each.firarm and ask first to make sure it's ok with the Authorities.
Along with the license, make sure that inspection number is up to date, along with tags.....and VIN must be visible for closer inspection.....you may have stolen it.
Be sure to include name, address, bank account number, identification and not one but TWO bulbs on that license plate just to make sure officer friendly knows you aren't a bad guy or in commission of a robbery and stollen vehicle.
The forth amendment and fifth was for the Founders who had different issues than today. Outdated such and such document as the conservative W. Bush and other members made very clear. As conservatives, we realize that we have a Big Bro for a reason. It is reasonable to make sure that he knows of your exact whereabouts at ALL times.....
After all, you have nothing to hide, do you?
Posted By: Capt_Craig Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Just steal someone else's plates.


That’s what they do here in South FL, especially after the state started ‘toll by plate.” That and never ending paper tags, tinted plate covers, lost tag signs, and the no tag needed gang. Doesn’t matter much anyway, because a lot of wonderful folks down here are driving around in cars which have been bought and sold multiple times without ever being registered, and they generally have active warrants to top it off. That’s why no one bothers to stop after accidents here. Just keep on going.
Posted By: pullit Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
what I was interested in avoiding was all the plate readers on interstate signs, bridges, and poles.
Seen shows like 20/20 and 48 hours where they ding your plate to track people even though they are doing the speed limit and nothing wrong.
Posted By: pullit Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
not worried about speeding ticket and the such
Posted By: Happy_Camper Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Originally Posted by pullit
what I was interested in avoiding was all the plate readers on interstate signs, bridges, and poles.
Seen shows like 20/20 and 48 hours where they ding your plate to track people even though they are doing the speed limit and nothing wrong.


That is sooo 1950s.

If it weren't for sting ray devices everywhere, how would big brother afford to exist?
Next thing you'll want to know is what that little airplane symbol on your phone is for..... sheesh.
😉
Posted By: OldHat Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
Most states take the logical and reasonable position that there is no legal reason to obscure your vehicle license plate. Doing so is prima facie evidence that you are intent on breaking some law or other. It is hard to argue with that.

And besides, none of them work.


Ya, sunglasses too make for reasonable suspicion. Anyone wearing sunglasses on a day when I wouldn't must be intent on hiding their identity and are highly suspect. Gloves too!

Masks of course are a-okay.

Privacy is, or at least should be, a natural right.
Posted By: Fubarski Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
Most states take the logical and reasonable position that there is no legal reason to obscure your vehicle license plate. Doing so is prima facie evidence that you are intent on breaking some law or other. It is hard to argue with that.

And besides, none of them work.


Ya, sunglasses too make for reasonable suspicion. Anyone wearing sunglasses on a day when I wouldn't must be intent on hiding their identity and are highly suspect. Gloves too!

Masks of course are a-okay.

Privacy is, or at least should be, a natural right.


When a person pulls outta their garage (less they're cuckheart, and they backed away from their "foundation"), they realize that their vehicle is open to public inspection.

There isn't any right ta privacy whilst travelin down a public roadway.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: License Plate blocker - 10/29/21
You are resorting to ad absurdum arguments, Old Hat. There are legitimate reasons for wearing sunglasses. Please tell me one legitimate reason for obscuring a license plate.
Posted By: DBT Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Mythbusters had an episode on it, but nothing they tried worked.
Posted By: goalie Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
You are resorting to ad absurdum arguments, Old Hat. There are legitimate reasons for wearing sunglasses. Please tell me one legitimate reason for obscuring a license plate.


Because the government shouldn't be collecting data on its citizens movements comes to mind.
Posted By: wabigoon Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Smear mud on it?
Posted By: Houston_2 Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by Fubarski
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
Most states take the logical and reasonable position that there is no legal reason to obscure your vehicle license plate. Doing so is prima facie evidence that you are intent on breaking some law or other. It is hard to argue with that.

And besides, none of them work.


Ya, sunglasses too make for reasonable suspicion. Anyone wearing sunglasses on a day when I wouldn't must be intent on hiding their identity and are highly suspect. Gloves too!

Masks of course are a-okay.

Privacy is, or at least should be, a natural right.


When a person pulls outta their garage (less they're cuckheart, and they backed away from their "foundation"), they realize that their vehicle is open to public inspection.

There isn't any right ta privacy whilst travelin down a public roadway.


Some States consider one’s vehicle the same as their domicile and you have privacy rights.

Your home being located on a public road is entitled to privacy as well.

The degree of privacy can vary from state to state.
Posted By: local_dirt Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by gonehuntin
I dodge a tollway camera once a week by lowering my tailgate and removing my front license plate.




Outlaw. smile
Posted By: Dillonbuck Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
You are resorting to ad absurdum arguments, Old Hat. There are legitimate reasons for wearing sunglasses. Please tell me one legitimate reason for obscuring a license plate.



Because no government body has a right to invade my privacy.
See me speeding, verified by radar,.
See my expired registration,
See me doing anything that would provide probable cause?
Pull me over. Not a problem.


Red light cameras are a controversial issue.
They do use the plates in a possible legitimate way.
Their use has been very inconsistent.
Rigged to increase violations and revenue.
And actually increasing accidents.

Otherwise, readers are largely fishing.
It's electronic stop and frisk of everyone, with zero probable cause.
If I believed it was look and forget, I'd be a little less access.
But if it is now, it won't be. So, when does it document that the
town cops camera saw you parked by the bar every night from
6 pm on. Every 1/2 hour he went by.
But you are gone at 11. Closing time.

And you work at...through records.
And live at....

Gonna be surprised when you are pulled over going home?
Because you didn't dim your lights, changed speed too much,
swerved 1 time over the white line?

Personally despise drunk drivers. But those actions would be wrong
under constitutional ideals.

But I feel the road blocks they throw up here to check registration and
insurance cards are improper. The courts disagree.

I'm willing to bet that if we could ask Washington, Jefferson, Adams...
What they think, we would all be called unworthy pussies.



Posted By: T_O_M Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by pullit
Anyone using some type of blocker to keep all the cameras from reading your plates?
I know there are at least 2 type the spray on and the film type. Does one work better than the other and do they really work?
Saw on the local news where there are more and more of the cameras being installed and used around our area. Not trying to get away with anything, just don't want big brother watching everywhere I go.


Be careful ... if you're caught obscuring your license plate in any way in my state, you're looking at a fugly ticket. Even the clear plastic covers are not legal. A friend of mine got a hefty ticket for that.
Posted By: Snowwolfe Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Get a bike rack that plugs into your hitch then mount a cheap azz bike on it. Add what you need to on the bike to partially cover the plate.
Posted By: Houston_2 Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by Snowwolfe
Get a bike rack that plugs into your hitch then mount a cheap azz bike on it. Add what you need to on the bike to partially cover the plate.


This and dropping the tailgate have possibilities.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
But I feel the road blocks they through up here to check registration and
insurance cards are improper. The courts disagree.

While this is technically true, you are not required to comply - just like with Border Patrol check points. They can ask you any question you want, but you do not have to answer.

I am forced to stop at Border Patrol check points that are within 100 miles of the border fairly often. I never answer their questions directly. "Are you an American citizen?" My answer as always is a polite "that's my business." And they wave me through.
Posted By: toltecgriz Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by Fubarski
[
Privacy is, or at least should be, a natural right.


When a person pulls outta their garage (less they're cuckheart, and they backed away from their "foundation"), they realize that their vehicle is open to public inspection.

There isn't any right ta privacy whilst travelin down a public roadway.
[/quote]

Anything in plain view from outside the car is fair game. Otherwise interior and trunk require probable cause and/or a warrant in most states. Refusing a search is not probable cause to trigger a search in most states. "Nervous or suspicious" behavior, you're on your own. Good luck. Eyes of the beholder. Then you have the issue of whether the judge is real judge or a rubber stamp, and the need for preserving the appeal that can follow. Etc, etc, etc.
Posted By: Hubert Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by Houston_2
Originally Posted by Hubert
If you Drive 65+ MPH the cameras are not fast enough to get your Number at red lights....


Got me doing 80+ mph taking a buddy to the hospital late at night and a small town roadside traffic speed camera got me also.

Speed only works at red light cameras... not roadside speed cameras...
Posted By: JohnnyLoco Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by Hastings
Mud works


It does work at getting you pulled over.

I got pulled over for dirty tag and “too many trailer balls”. Cop said my plate was blocked.
Posted By: antlers Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Originally Posted by Hastings
Mud works
It does work at getting you pulled over. I got pulled over for dirty tag and “too many trailer balls”. Cop said my plate was blocked.
lmao

“Traffic stops are SO dangerous;” but they're ‘still’ gonna pull you over for total chickenschit stuff like that because generating revenue for the state is SO important.

lmao some more
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Originally Posted by Hastings
Mud works


It does work at getting you pulled over.

I got pulled over for dirty tag and “too many trailer balls”. Cop said my plate was blocked.



When I was a kid I kept the plate partially blocked by balls, etc.

Looking back I wonder at my stupidity. I'd check my tail lights, brake lights, license plate lights, etc to make sure I didn't make it easy for them, but figured if they wanted to see my plate fugk em.
Originally Posted by Fubarski


When a person pulls outta their garage (less they're cuckheart, and they backed away from their "foundation"), they realize that their vehicle is open to public inspection.

There isn't any right ta privacy whilst travelin down a public roadway.



Depends.

MT is very very very good on the 4th amendment rights in re searches.
Posted By: Valsdad Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by toltecgriz
Originally Posted by Fubarski
Quote

Privacy is, or at least should be, a natural right.


When a person pulls outta their garage (less they're cuckheart, and they backed away from their "foundation"), they realize that their vehicle is open to public inspection.

There isn't any right ta privacy whilst travelin down a public roadway.


Anything in plain view from outside the car is fair game. Otherwise interior and trunk require probable cause and/or a warrant in most states. Refusing a search is not probable cause to trigger a search in most states. "Nervous or suspicious" behavior, you're on your own. Good luck. Eyes of the beholder. Then you have the issue of whether the judge is real judge or a rubber stamp, and the need for preserving the appeal that can follow. Etc, etc, etc.


At least in my area, Kommiefornia, having once been detained they have the right to go around the outside of the car with the dog.

It's been established in many a court, including the Supreme one if I'm not mistaken, that you have little to any right to privacy in any public place.

Yes, some jurisdictions provide for a right to privacy in a vehicle on a public thoroughfare for non-visible items, your closed briefcase/backpack while a pedestrian on a street and such. But, I know of no such established right to not have your picture taken......................


Hundreds of thousands of paparazzi would be out of work if there were.

Do I agree with it..............................


NO.
Posted By: slm9s Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
I remember an old James Bond movie where the license plate rotated to show another plate with a switch the driver controlled. I'd imagine just getting it to turn 90 degrees so it faces down while you pass the camera would work. Get to work DIY'ers!

I read somewhere that hair spray on the license plate and travelling a dirt road would make your plate unreadable. Might fool the cameras, but then you might get a ticket for unreadable plate...
Posted By: las Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
I was stopped once for obscured plate. Some fuggin kid vandals had splashed white paint on my bumper and plate a year or to before. I explained - the cop "highly suggested" I repaint that plate so the numbers were visible. "Today!". smile

I have never been stopped for frequently dirt obscured plates. I don't know anyone who has, to my knowledge. It's a state of being in much of Alaska.

Now, if you are a "known contact", or they have another reason, it might be an issue if they want to make it so.

"Civilization" is highly over-rated.
Posted By: pullit Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
the plate blocker I was talking about does not keep it from being read from straight on but from above and at side angles, like where the camera might be.
Posted By: jaguartx Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
I wonder what the fine would be in Texas.
Posted By: Fubarski Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Originally Posted by Fubarski


When a person pulls outta their garage (less they're cuckheart, and they backed away from their "foundation"), they realize that their vehicle is open to public inspection.

There isn't any right ta privacy whilst travelin down a public roadway.



Depends.

MT is very very very good on the 4th amendment rights in re searches.


I should have been more clear.

When ya drive your car down the street, you know that everbody can see you're drivin down the street.

The plate lasers are only lookin at the car drivin down the street.

As was posted, stoppin or searchin the inside is another matter.
Posted By: Valsdad Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
I wonder if a case needs to be heard regarding "Please define obscured"?

If one put "blinders" on one's plate, similar to those used on horses, or a sun shade on a rifle scope, that still allowed the plates to be clearly viewed by the popo directly behind your car, would that be legal? It would stop overhead readers and perhaps those from parked police vehicles, but is not really "obscuring" the plate?

These things are why we have lawyers, ya know.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
The "popo" behind you might rightfully assume you were trying to avoid detection for a reason, thus giving them probable cause.

I'll say it again: this is not a privacy issue (you have no right to privacy on a public road.) It is an evade the law issue, whatever you might claim. Doing so would make you an immediate focus of police interest, which is rather the opposite of what you wanted to achieve.
Posted By: Dillonbuck Re: License Plate blocker - 10/30/21
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
The "popo" behind you might rightfully assume you were trying to avoid detection for a reason, thus giving them probable cause.

I'll say it again: this is not a privacy issue (you have no right to privacy on a public road.) It is an evade the law issue, whatever you might claim. Doing so would make you an immediate focus of police interest, which is rather the opposite of what you wanted to achieve.




Rocky,
And thats a sign of where we are and are headed.
I'm obviously where I am. And can be seen.
But do we really want government WATCHING us be there.
Then recording time/date we were there?
Without probable cause? For what?

I can't think of any government engaging in that
type of behavior, that lead to citizens bring happy about it
over time.

Are you willing to give them the power to stop you if they think
you might be up to something.
Old man wearing his diabetes glasses. Drug dealer? Burglar? Hit Man?😉
Is that a cane gun? Could be!

Those of us who basically follow the laws would like to see crooks caught.
How bad? What are you willing to sacrifice? Put up with?
Posted By: ruffcutt Re: License Plate blocker - 10/31/21
How much tracking and surveillance is enough? I understand the benefits for law enforcement but where will it stop? The .gov even takes pictures of the mail you receive before you receive it.
We live in the illusion of freedom, how much more freedom and privacy will we be deprived of for the “common good”.
C’mon man, freedom? Who needs that?!
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: License Plate blocker - 10/31/21
I understand your concerns, and I agree with them completely. But, it is undeniable that you cannot find the one bad egg unless you examine them all.

We've had too many horrible instances of terror attacks that happened because we just weren't aware of the players or their plans. We've also stopped I don't know how many others because we did. That's also true of drug trafficking, sex trafficking, gang violence, and more.

It is a very delicate balance. We all agree on that. Too far either way is far too dangerous to get it wrong.
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