Damn who would vote no on that type of contract wow. Oh wait greedy uaw members.
On Tuesday, John Deere's UAW members voted to reject an offer from the company that would have meant a 30% pay raise over the six-year term of the contract, along with an $8,500 ratification bonus and new paid parental leave, among other benefits boosts, while maintaining their zero-premium health care coverage.
Roughly 55% of John Deere's UAW membership voted down the deal. The initial offer was rejected by 90% of workers, and would have meant immediate pay raises of 5% and 6% depending on the worker, with 3% raises in subsequent years.
After workers turned down the second deal, Deere & Co. chief administrative officer Marc Howze told Bloomberg, "The agreement that we provided is frankly our best and final offer. In order for us to be competitive we have gone as far as we're gonna go."
Howze added, "We're not going back to the bargaining table. There's nothing else to bargain about."
Upon news of the second rejection on Tuesday of the contract covering more than 10,000 Deere workers in several Midwest states, Howze said in a statement that the company would "execute the next phase of our Customer Service Continuation Plan." Deere has kept operations at their affected plants running since the October 14 strike began by calling in trained, salaried non-union employees.
Deere spokesperson Jennifer Hartmann told FOX Business Wednesday evening, "We are continuing discussions with the UAW, but we believe we’ve exhausted our options economically – while still remaining competitive. Our employees currently earn the best wages and benefits in the industry."
When reached by FOX Business for a response to Deere's position, UAW spokesperson Brian Rothenburg said, "We are still on strike. The elected bargaining team Vice President [Chuck] Browning and the UAW team continue to discuss next steps."
"The UAW appreciates the community support of our members on the picket line," Rothenburg added.
What else is in the contract.....like maybe language to close certain plants?
Originally Posted by hookeye
Aint nuthin ever free.
If theyre offering you something theyre also gonna take away something.
No fan of labor unions and especially not the UAW but this is often the case when union members reject labor contracts containing what sounds like 'juicy' economic packages... Ironically, the liberal news media reports the juicy stuff to the general public but rarely ever details the critical issues.
What else is in the contract.....like maybe language to close certain plants?
I agree. But I gotta say, I'd love to vote on that next year in our contract. Sure beats the 3% raises we don't always get. The $350/month insurance with $3 or 4k deductibles.
A smart man would try to give up that $8500 bonus in return for more raise.
No fan of labor unions and especially not the UAW but this is often the case when union members reject labor contracts containing what sounds like 'juicy' economic packages... Ironically, the liberal news media reports the juicy stuff to the general public but rarely ever details the critical issues.
From what I've read Deere is trying to get them to give up pensions, that's why it keeps getting voted down. As usual the media puts out a bunch of slanted BS and leaves out the real story.
No fan of labor unions and especially not the UAW but this is often the case when union members reject labor contracts containing what sounds like 'juicy' economic packages... Ironically, the liberal news media reports the juicy stuff to the general public but rarely ever details the critical issues.
From what I've read Deere is trying to get them to give up pensions, that's why it keeps getting voted down. As usual the media puts out a bunch of slanted BS and leaves out the real story.
And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
No fan of labor unions and especially not the UAW but this is often the case when union members reject labor contracts containing what sounds like 'juicy' economic packages... Ironically, the liberal news media reports the juicy stuff to the general public but rarely ever details the critical issues.
From what I've read Deere is trying to get them to give up pensions, that's why it keeps getting voted down. As usual the media puts out a bunch of slanted BS and leaves out the real story.
The story is pro Deere. I thought the media was pro democrat.
And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
I don't give a flying fuck what they vote...they are doing for their own which is what we all do.
Or don't you think workers should be able to stand and bargain to do better...maybe you think they should just roll over and take a screwing like obedient dogs.
ok, we'll pay you what you want, but we're gonna lay off half of ya to do it!
if its on face value a money grab by the union, shame on them, but I have to believe there is more to the story. It would be hard for any working man to walk away from that kind of offer.
And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
Union leadership is in bed with democrats but the days of union workers blindly supporting democrats is long over. Anyone earning a middle class wage would be crazy to vote for democrats today. Democrats are the party of illegal aliens, non-working welfare cheats, and multi-millionaire east and west coast lefties, they abandoned people who work for a living long ago.
Deere's plants are mostly in Iowa and Kansas, I doubt there are many Biden voters amongst their workers.
And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
I don't give a flying fuck what they vote...they are doing for their own which is what we all do.
Or don't you think workers should be able to stand and bargain to do better...maybe you think they should just roll over and take a screwing like obedient dogs.
Screw you.
More on the contract they were voting on.
By Carson J.S. Reichardt Published: Nov. 1, 2021 at 3:26 AM UTC
DES MOINES, Iowa (WOI) - The United Auto Workers (UAW) revealed new details today in the tentative agreement reached between the union and John Deere after workers have been on strike for more than two weeks.
Union workers have raised concerns over wages, pensions and health care benefits. Under the new proposal, wages will increase by 10% in the first year, then increase by 5% every other year—with 3% lump sum payments every year in between.
There will also be a post-retirement health care fund for workers, with an additional $2,000 in seed money per year of service. Finally, all employees will be eligible for a retirement bonus of up to $50,000, based on the number of years they’ve worked for Deere.
When the new agreement comes up for a vote, workers said they’re confident in their bargaining position.
ADVERTISEMENT “Deere is not in any position to play too many games,” said Chris Laursen, a member of UAW’s Local 74 chapter. “I mean, they have some loyal customers out there, many of them that stand by us, support our strike. Give us something fair, and let’s get back to work and take care of these farmers.”
UAW President Ray Curry also voiced support for the agreement.
“Our UAW John Deere national bargaining team went back to our local members after the previous tentative agreement and canvassed the concerns and priorities of membership,” UAW President Ray Curry said. “We want to thank the UAW bargaining team and striking UAW members and their families for the sacrifices they have made to achieve these gains. Our members have enjoyed the support of our communities and the entire labor movement nationwide as they have stood together in support and solidarity these past few weeks.”
Voting on the new contract is currently scheduled for November 2 at 10 a.m. At least until then, strikers will remain on the picket lines.
Wages According to a contract summary, workers would receive an immediate 10% increase in wages in the first year and an additional 5% in the third and fifth years. But some of that increase is tied to inflation through cost of living adjustments (COLA), which have the potential to change. The proposed COLA would adjust every three months with inflation. The first adjustment would be effective in December. On the second, fourth, and six years, workers would get 3% lump sum payments. Upon ratification of the contract, workers would receive a $8,500 bonus. Health care There would be no changes in the cost of health insurance under the new agreement. Workers would pay $0 in premiums, have no deductibles or coinsurance, and no changes in co-pays. Union members would receive two weeks of fully-paid parental leave. The insurance would also cover autism care and vision costs, including exams, frames, and lenses. New hires would receive health care coverage after 30 days of employment on the first of the following month. Retirement Current and future union workers would choose between the traditional-plus and choice-plus retirement plans. The traditional-plus plan allows employees to have a defined benefits pension, an increased multiplier for monthly pension for each year of service and fully own their pension after three years of service. The traditional-plus plan’s post-retirement health care fund offers cash balance savings. There will also be $2,000 of seed money per year of service. The choice-plus plan includes a dollar for dollar 401(k) match up to 6% for 2022, then $0.70-$1 match for each year after. The specific match amount would be determined based on company profits. The company will also contribute 5% of employees’ annual wages to their 401(k). The retirement bonus for both plans would total $37,500 for 10-24 years of service and $50,000 for 25 years or more.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
Union leadership is in bed with democrats but the days of union workers blindly supporting democrats is long over. Anyone earning a middle class wage would be crazy to vote for democrats today. Democrats are the party of illegal aliens, non-working welfare cheats, and multi-millionaire east and west coast lefties, they abandoned people who work for a living long ago.
Deere's plants are mostly in Iowa and Kansas, I doubt there are many Biden voters amongst their workers.
Biden took 45% of the vote in Iowa and probably about the same in Kansas. So somebody is obliviously voting democrat.
In MN an MI the unions are part of the democrat machine and always have been. There may be a shift, which I am grateful for, but unions still vote their pocket books, and democrats still protect them far more than republicans.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
Union leadership is in bed with democrats but the days of union workers blindly supporting democrats is long over. Anyone earning a middle class wage would be crazy to vote for democrats today. Democrats are the party of illegal aliens, non-working welfare cheats, and multi-millionaire east and west coast lefties, they abandoned people who work for a living long ago.
Deere's plants are mostly in Iowa and Kansas, I doubt there are many Biden voters amongst their workers.
Biden took 45% of the vote in Iowa and probably about the same in Kansas. So somebody is obliviously voting democrat.
In MN an MI the unions are part of the democrat machine and always have been. There may be a shift, which I am grateful for, but unions still vote their pocket books, and democrats still protect them far more than republicans.
Democrats have long since stopped supporting workers and that includes unions. Democrats talk support but never produce any.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
Union leadership is in bed with democrats but the days of union workers blindly supporting democrats is long over. Anyone earning a middle class wage would be crazy to vote for democrats today. Democrats are the party of illegal aliens, non-working welfare cheats, and multi-millionaire east and west coast lefties, they abandoned people who work for a living long ago.
Deere's plants are mostly in Iowa and Kansas, I doubt there are many Biden voters amongst their workers.
Biden took 45% of the vote in Iowa and probably about the same in Kansas. So somebody is obliviously voting democrat.
In MN an MI the unions are part of the democrat machine and always have been. There may be a shift, which I am grateful for, but unions still vote their pocket books, and democrats still protect them far more than republicans.
Democrats have long since stopped supporting workers and that includes unions. Democrats talk support but never produce any.
Yup. Its all about keeping the fat corrupt cats in Detroit happy.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
Union leadership is in bed with democrats but the days of union workers blindly supporting democrats is long over. Anyone earning a middle class wage would be crazy to vote for democrats today. Democrats are the party of illegal aliens, non-working welfare cheats, and multi-millionaire east and west coast lefties, they abandoned people who work for a living long ago.
Deere's plants are mostly in Iowa and Kansas, I doubt there are many Biden voters amongst their workers.
Biden took 45% of the vote in Iowa and probably about the same in Kansas. So somebody is obliviously voting democrat.
In MN an MI the unions are part of the democrat machine and always have been. There may be a shift, which I am grateful for, but unions still vote their pocket books, and democrats still protect them far more than republicans.
Democrats have long since stopped supporting workers and that includes unions. Democrats talk support but never produce any.
The UAW doesn't think so...unless I missed their unwavering support for Trump the last two elections.
I have a friend who works at the Waterloo plant. He isn't in the union.
ADVERTISEMENT “Deere is not in any position to play too many games,” said Chris Laursen, a member of UAW’s Local 74 chapter. “I mean, they have some loyal customers out there, many of them that stand by us, support our strike. Give us something fair, and let’s get back to work and take care of these farmers.”
Who do you think is going to pay for all these demands?
So... say the union workers prevail.. They get everything they want.
Who really pays for it?
And with what consequences?
Retail customers will have to pay more. And with JD already much more expensive than the competition in most cases, the competition will get more sales, and JD sales will lag. When sales lag, the JD workforce will be laid off or cut in hours or pay. Or driven into bankruptcy, and then sold off in a fire sale to a foreign corp that moves more jobs overseas, and shutters American plants.
In the meantime, the competition is seeing a growth in sales and can put more money into innovative new refinements.
Looks kinda like a Catch 22 for JD and the workers to me.
They should all be fired and Deeere should continue with their salaried, non-union workers.
Deere should then move all operations to At Will States.
Screw those union commies.
Stupid should be painful, especially in this uncertain economy.
Don’t fire them, then you become the bad guy. Just hire replacement workers, train them and bring the plants back up over time. It will be a struggle for a while. But how can you run a successful business with employees that have that kind of mentality. Think long term and get ride of the slugs that are on the payroll.
No fan of labor unions and especially not the UAW but this is often the case when union members reject labor contracts containing what sounds like 'juicy' economic packages... Ironically, the liberal news media reports the juicy stuff to the general public but rarely ever details the critical issues.
From what I've read Deere is trying to get them to give up pensions, that's why it keeps getting voted down. As usual the media puts out a bunch of slanted BS and leaves out the real story.
Are they going to buy them out? If so, based on it being 100% funded, or a lesser percentage?
So... say the union workers prevail.. They get everything they want.
Who really pays for it?
And with what consequences?
Retail customers will have to pay more. And with JD already much more expensive than the competition in most cases, the competition will get more sales, and JD sales will lag. When sales lag, the JD workforce will be laid off or cut in hours or pay. Or driven into bankruptcy, and then sold off in a fire sale to a foreign corp that moves more jobs overseas, and shutters American plants.
In the meantime, the competition is seeing a growth in sales and can put more money into innovative new refinements.
Looks kinda like a Catch 22 for JD and the workers to me.
I'm not against unions. I know wall street would rape the workers in this country in a heart beat.
Unions just suffer from the same problem the people on wall street suffer from.
I'm kinda with you on that.
The workers need a voice - and there are many instances of unions resulting in great gains for the worker.
but then the union reps and officers start doing their horseshit, focusing on sabotaging the work place, aligning themselves with politicians for kickbacks and suddenly being a union rep is a lucrative career that pays more than the workers make on the line - and the only way they keep the job is to keep the union members ginned up about how management is out to screw them
Wages According to a contract summary, workers would receive an immediate 10% increase in wages in the first year and an additional 5% in the third and fifth years. But some of that increase is tied to inflation through cost of living adjustments (COLA), which have the potential to change. The proposed COLA would adjust every three months with inflation. The first adjustment would be effective in December. On the second, fourth, and six years, workers would get 3% lump sum payments. Upon ratification of the contract, workers would receive a $8,500 bonus. Health care There would be no changes in the cost of health insurance under the new agreement. Workers would pay $0 in premiums, have no deductibles or coinsurance, and no changes in co-pays. Union members would receive two weeks of fully-paid parental leave. The insurance would also cover autism care and vision costs, including exams, frames, and lenses. New hires would receive health care coverage after 30 days of employment on the first of the following month. Retirement Current and future union workers would choose between the traditional-plus and choice-plus retirement plans. The traditional-plus plan allows employees to have a defined benefits pension, an increased multiplier for monthly pension for each year of service and fully own their pension after three years of service. The traditional-plus plan’s post-retirement health care fund offers cash balance savings. There will also be $2,000 of seed money per year of service. The choice-plus plan includes a dollar for dollar 401(k) match up to 6% for 2022, then $0.70-$1 match for each year after. The specific match amount would be determined based on company profits. The company will also contribute 5% of employees’ annual wages to their 401(k). The retirement bonus for both plans would total $37,500 for 10-24 years of service and $50,000 for 25 years or more.
My brother in law works at the Waterloo John Deere. The company offered everyone a 2% raise per year for the next 6 years. Of course, they went on strike. This offer is huge but it's still not enough for the UAW. It's always never been enough and the UAW always does this every time the economy is going through a tough time. We have a big John Deere plant in the town I live in so for the last 40 years I have been a front row spectator to the UAW and John Deere. I even knew some of the union stewards in years passed. They were dicks on their best days. It wasn't about making a quality product for the farming industry and having a good job to raise your family, it was how much money can we squeeze out of the farmers who buy the products. Go price anything John Deere and tell me it's not expensive. That's your UAW. I have no time for them.
Wages According to a contract summary, workers would receive an immediate 10% increase in wages in the first year and an additional 5% in the third and fifth years. But some of that increase is tied to inflation through cost of living adjustments (COLA), which have the potential to change. The proposed COLA would adjust every three months with inflation. The first adjustment would be effective in December. On the second, fourth, and six years, workers would get 3% lump sum payments. Upon ratification of the contract, workers would receive a $8,500 bonus. Health care There would be no changes in the cost of health insurance under the new agreement. Workers would pay $0 in premiums, have no deductibles or coinsurance, and no changes in co-pays. Union members would receive two weeks of fully-paid parental leave. The insurance would also cover autism care and vision costs, including exams, frames, and lenses. New hires would receive health care coverage after 30 days of employment on the first of the following month. Retirement Current and future union workers would choose between the traditional-plus and choice-plus retirement plans. The traditional-plus plan allows employees to have a defined benefits pension, an increased multiplier for monthly pension for each year of service and fully own their pension after three years of service. The traditional-plus plan’s post-retirement health care fund offers cash balance savings. There will also be $2,000 of seed money per year of service. The choice-plus plan includes a dollar for dollar 401(k) match up to 6% for 2022, then $0.70-$1 match for each year after. The specific match amount would be determined based on company profits. The company will also contribute 5% of employees’ annual wages to their 401(k). The retirement bonus for both plans would total $37,500 for 10-24 years of service and $50,000 for 25 years or more.
My brother in law works at the Waterloo John Deere. The company offered everyone a 2% raise per year for the next 6 years. Of course, they went on strike. This offer is huge but it's still not enough for the UAW. It's always never been enough and the UAW always does this every time the economy is going through a tough time. We have a big John Deere plant in the town I live in so for the last 40 years I have been a front row spectator to the UAW and John Deere. I even knew some of the union stewards in years passed. They were dicks on their best days. It wasn't about making a quality product for the farming industry and having a good job to raise your family, it was how much money can we squeeze out of the farmers who buy the products. Go price anything John Deere and tell me it's not expensive. That's your UAW. I have no time for them.
kwg
John Deere also makes tractors in other countries and they are expensive as well,, do you blame the UAW for that?
Anytime I see the company offering "30% wage increases" and it getting voted down, I instantly know there's a lot more to this story. Seriously, contracts are typically 3ish year deals and 30% is typical of 10 plus years worth of progress.....so if someone is offering 30% to be happy, either you were getting screwed or are fixin' to be.
I'm not a company nor union loyalist. I have made my fortune by doing what's best for me which has also been by making my company money through solid effort and good choices.....but I work for my future first.
Wages According to a contract summary, workers would receive an immediate 10% increase in wages in the first year and an additional 5% in the third and fifth years. But some of that increase is tied to inflation through cost of living adjustments (COLA), which have the potential to change. The proposed COLA would adjust every three months with inflation. The first adjustment would be effective in December. On the second, fourth, and six years, workers would get 3% lump sum payments. Upon ratification of the contract, workers would receive a $8,500 bonus. Health care There would be no changes in the cost of health insurance under the new agreement. Workers would pay $0 in premiums, have no deductibles or coinsurance, and no changes in co-pays. Union members would receive two weeks of fully-paid parental leave. The insurance would also cover autism care and vision costs, including exams, frames, and lenses. New hires would receive health care coverage after 30 days of employment on the first of the following month. Retirement Current and future union workers would choose between the traditional-plus and choice-plus retirement plans. The traditional-plus plan allows employees to have a defined benefits pension, an increased multiplier for monthly pension for each year of service and fully own their pension after three years of service. The traditional-plus plan’s post-retirement health care fund offers cash balance savings. There will also be $2,000 of seed money per year of service. The choice-plus plan includes a dollar for dollar 401(k) match up to 6% for 2022, then $0.70-$1 match for each year after. The specific match amount would be determined based on company profits. The company will also contribute 5% of employees’ annual wages to their 401(k). The retirement bonus for both plans would total $37,500 for 10-24 years of service and $50,000 for 25 years or more.
My brother in law works at the Waterloo John Deere. The company offered everyone a 2% raise per year for the next 6 years. Of course, they went on strike. This offer is huge but it's still not enough for the UAW. It's always never been enough and the UAW always does this every time the economy is going through a tough time. We have a big John Deere plant in the town I live in so for the last 40 years I have been a front row spectator to the UAW and John Deere. I even knew some of the union stewards in years passed. They were dicks on their best days. It wasn't about making a quality product for the farming industry and having a good job to raise your family, it was how much money can we squeeze out of the farmers who buy the products. Go price anything John Deere and tell me it's not expensive. That's your UAW. I have no time for them.
kwg
John Deere also makes tractors in other countries and they are expensive as well,, do you blame the UAW for that?
Yes. John Deere is the big dog in the tractor business. That allows the minor players to price their products just under what John Deere is pricing theirs for. You can bet that if the price of John Deere's products go up 5% then everyone else is going to go up 4.9%.
If its tier 2 system that 401k wont get much worker contribution.....hollow promise until one is about topped out on wage.
Yeah the company puts some in, but it aint gonna be a pension.
Maybe young workers can do alright. Those coming in late, are gonna be fugged if they're the bread winner.
This simply untrue.
Pensions are the opium of the middle class.
* Pensions offer a terrible rate of return on the money invested. Just investing in index funds in a 401K will just about double your returns. Which means that after 30 years of service you will have three times as much income as with a pension. After 40 years, four times.
* pensions are a fixed income stream after retirement. What do you think inflation will do to your buying power in the 30 years of retirement? A 4401K, invested in equities, would keep right on trucking and outpace inflation.
*.pensions tie employees and employers together. If the employee is tired, burnt out, needs to move to take care of a parent, or the work is physically damaging, to name a few things, quitting often means giving up a large invested pension. With a 401K, you just pick up and go to a greener pasture.
Anyone who prefers a pension over a 401K simply doesn’t understand both systems.
If its tier 2 system that 401k wont get much worker contribution.....hollow promise until one is about topped out on wage.
Yeah the company puts some in, but it aint gonna be a pension.
Maybe young workers can do alright. Those coming in late, are gonna be fugged if they're the bread winner.
This simply untrue.
Pensions are the opium of the middle class.
* Pensions offer a terrible rate of return on the money invested. Just investing in index funds in a 401K will just about double your returns. Which means that after 30 years of service you will have three times as much income as with a pension. After 40 years, four times.
* pensions are a fixed income stream after retirement. What do you think inflation will do to your buying power in the 30 years of retirement? A 4401K, invested in equities, would keep right on trucking and outpace inflation.
*.pensions tie employees and employers together. If the employee is tired, burnt out, needs to move to take care of a parent, or the work is physically damaging, to name a few things, quitting often means giving up a large invested pension. With a 401K, you just pick up and go to a greener pasture.
Anyone who prefers a pension over a 401K simply doesn’t understand both systems.
Ya, 401ks the way to go You ignore that almost everyone who gets a pension also has a 401k. Now there are some variances in that some contribute to their pension(I dont) and some only get .50 on the dollar to 6% on their 401k, but having both is much better than a single 401k.
And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
Local 798 openly supported Trump
sure they did
Why would you question this? Do you have insider info?
[quote=JSTUART] And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
[quote=JSTUART] And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
[quote=JSTUART] And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
ExxonMobil is working the union hard at their Beaumont refinery with a 6+ month lockout and rumblings of a real effort to toss the union. I do believe that ExxonMobil is fully capable of this.
ExxonMobil is working the union hard at their Beaumont refinery with a 6+ month lockout and rumblings of a real effort to toss the union. I do believe that ExxonMobil is fully capable of this.
........... I even knew some of the union stewards in years passed. They were dicks on their best days. It wasn't about making a quality product for the farming industry and having a good job to raise your family, it was how much money can we squeeze out of the farmers who buy the products......
Since when does UAW sell farm equipment....or any product for that matter?
Did I ever tell my union story from the Beaver Valley in PA? Was looking at a cement plant, doing an audit for a customer that sent liquid hazardous waste there to be incinerated in the kiln.
They had a clay pit and a limestone quarry right there on-site providing the raw materials for cement. There wasn't much going on in the plant, not a lot of activity related to cement-making. Just a custodial crew.
We saw a big ocean going freighter docked at their pier so I asked what it was hauling. The answer was "clinker," the intermediary in cement manufacturing that's produced when you heat the raw materials in the kiln, but before processing. Looks like dirt clods.
They were shipping these dirt clods over from Spain because it was cheaper to do that than to process the raw materials right there on-site. When I asked how that could be, the answer I got was: "see that guy over there pushing the broom? He's union and he gets $XXX/hr."
I forget what the amount was, but the message was clear.
Did I ever tell my story about unions in Philadelphia? We were working on a project site, drilling test borings. Union got wind of it and shut the project site down until we hired two of their people for the project.
Lazy MF-ers showed up and sat in their truck the whole time which was fine with us because they had no clue what we were doing.
Did I ever tell my union story from the Beaver Valley in PA? Was looking at a cement plant, doing an audit for a customer that sent liquid hazardous waste there to be incinerated in the kiln.
They had a clay pit and a limestone quarry right there on-site providing the raw materials for cement. There wasn't much going on in the plant, not a lot of activity related to cement-making. Just a custodial crew.
We saw a big ocean going freighter docked at their pier so I asked what it was hauling. The answer was "clinker," the intermediary in cement manufacturing that's produced when you heat the raw materials in the kiln, but before processing. Looks like dirt clods.
They were shipping these dirt clods over from Spain because it was cheaper to do that than to process the raw materials right there on-site. When I asked how that could be, the answer I got was: "see that guy over there pushing the broom? He's union and he gets $XXX/hr."
I forget what the amount was, but the message was clear.
And? Its the union workers fault? Its not the little guy pushing the broom for 25/hr making those, sometimes illegal, decisions.
I want you to look up China steel dumping. See who was working with who to try to stop it.
Did I ever tell my story about unions in Philadelphia? We were working on a project site, drilling test borings. Union got wind of it and shut the project site down until we hired two of their people for the project.
Lazy MF-ers showed up and sat in their truck the whole time which was fine with us because they had no clue what we were doing.
Value-added, LOL.
We do that all the time. The CBA calls for union workers, if youre gonna farm it out we are gonna have guys, under the CBA, overlook the project. Or we shut it down. Company signed the CBA to use union workers, its not the unions decision to farm out work. If company thinks they can farm it out and abide by the CBA at the same time and come out $$$$ ahead so be it.
I'm in the BLET union, I have to be for my job because I work for BNSF RR. I don't like the National leadership and the way they tell us to vote. Most of our local doesn't feel the same way as National as our biggest commodity we hauled was coal for over 20 years. However the union has negotiated pretty good pay and benefits for us in the past.
We got a letter late 2019 from BNSF as our current contract was open for negotiations Jan 2020. The carrier basically said we were overpaid, under worked, and had too good of benefits and they are wanting to align with what the current corporate trends to stay competitive. So their main focus was to cut our two man crew in half on the majority of freight trains. Cut our pay, take away unpaid time off, a week/2 weeks of vacation from the employees with 25+ years, and make us pay more for our Health insurance.
And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
Unions must be different in Oz. I love foreigners opining on domestic issues in the U.S. lol
Wages According to a contract summary, workers would receive an immediate 10% increase in wages in the first year and an additional 5% in the third and fifth years. But some of that increase is tied to inflation through cost of living adjustments (COLA), which have the potential to change. The proposed COLA would adjust every three months with inflation. The first adjustment would be effective in December. On the second, fourth, and six years, workers would get 3% lump sum payments. Upon ratification of the contract, workers would receive a $8,500 bonus. Health care There would be no changes in the cost of health insurance under the new agreement. Workers would pay $0 in premiums, have no deductibles or coinsurance, and no changes in co-pays. Union members would receive two weeks of fully-paid parental leave. The insurance would also cover autism care and vision costs, including exams, frames, and lenses. New hires would receive health care coverage after 30 days of employment on the first of the following month. Retirement Current and future union workers would choose between the traditional-plus and choice-plus retirement plans. The traditional-plus plan allows employees to have a defined benefits pension, an increased multiplier for monthly pension for each year of service and fully own their pension after three years of service. The traditional-plus plan’s post-retirement health care fund offers cash balance savings. There will also be $2,000 of seed money per year of service. The choice-plus plan includes a dollar for dollar 401(k) match up to 6% for 2022, then $0.70-$1 match for each year after. The specific match amount would be determined based on company profits. The company will also contribute 5% of employees’ annual wages to their 401(k). The retirement bonus for both plans would total $37,500 for 10-24 years of service and $50,000 for 25 years or more.
And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
Local 798 openly supported Trump
sure they did
Dipsh!t,When Danny Hendrix 798 Business Manger was on Fox News he wore a Trump hat
And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
In the US the unions vote democrat overwhelmingly.
Local 798 openly supported Trump
sure they did
Dipsh!t,When Danny Hendrix 798 Business Manger was on Fox News he wore a Trump hat
ribka is one stupid mötherfücker who doesnt know jack!
Don't be so sure the members rejected that contract. Their locals board did the negotiating and I'll bet the terms haven't been formally presented to the membership.
I almost typed that all the way out without laughing.
And companies are? PFFTT!!
Yup. Better to halt production and then either downsize or go bankrupt so the commie fugks can have autism care, paternal leave, and free healthcare to the grave.
Makes total sense, especially while they donate hugely to elect politicians who do not represent their members’ positions.
I almost typed that all the way out without laughing.
And companies are? PFFTT!!
Yup. Better to halt production and then either downsize or go bankrupt so the commie fugks can have autism care, paternal leave, and free healthcare to the grave.
Makes total sense, especially while they donate hugely to elect politicians who do not represent their members’ positions.
Makes total sense man.
And when the next group of employees exercise their right to organize??? Ya, total sense.
Fire em and hire guys that want to work not form a union.
Local manufacturing company did something similar but it didn't quite turn out as well for the company and many management employees as they believed it would...
The end result was while successful in getting the union completely out of the plant and hiring all new contract temps as their replacements, after a couple years the temps got fed up with not having any real permanent job security and started threatening walkouts and possible unionizing unless they were made permanent employees with full benefits.
Had a couple of serious injuries inside the plant with one fatal when a inexperienced but overconfident salaried employee operating an overhead crane slapped the elevated scissors lift they were working out of with the crane and knocked it over.
Prior to getting rid of union, salaried management blamed poor production numbers, excessive scrap, maintenance problems, employee issues, etc., on the union. After getting rid of union all the same problems were still there and got even worse but management could no longer could use the union as a scapegoat to cover for their lack of management skills.
Had a fair amount of felons and thugs among the temps, too. Rampant thievery of company asserts of anything they could carry became common. Female salaried employees were warned by corporate to not get too friendly or be alone with temps ever and to make sure to check inside their vehicles before getting in them and also make sure they weren't followed when leaving. A chief of a hired contract security force was removed when he was seen buying switchblade knives from a local pawn shop and selling them to thug wannabe temps inside the plant.
After getting rid of the union over the next several years the company went public and saw it's stock go from a high to literally pocket change a share three times, filed bankruptcy once and was about to a second time when is was bought by a private investment group.
This had been a company that consistently held 70% market share for many years in the product it manufactured before getting rid of the experienced union employees and hiring inexperienced nonunion.
Fire em and hire guys that want to work not form a union.
Local manufacturing company did something similar but it didn't quite turn out as well for the company and many management employees as they believed it would...
The end result was while successful in getting the union completely out of the plant and hiring all new contract temps as their replacements, after a couple years the temps got fed up with not having any real permanent job security and started threatening walkouts and possible unionizing unless they were made permanent employees with full benefits.
Had a couple of serious injuries inside the plant with one fatal when a inexperienced but overconfident salaried employee operating an overhead crane slapped the elevated scissors lift they were working out of with the crane and knocked it over.
Prior to getting rid of union, salaried management blamed poor production numbers, excessive scrap, maintenance problems, employee issues, etc., on the union. After getting rid of union all the same problems were still there and got even worse but management could no longer could use the union as a scapegoat to cover for their lack of management skills.
Had a fair amount of felons and thugs among the temps, too. Rampant thievery of company asserts of anything they could carry became common. Female salaried employees were warned by corporate to not get too friendly or be alone with temps ever and to make sure to check inside their vehicles before getting in them and also make sure they weren't followed when leaving. A chief of a hired contract security force was removed when he was seen buying switchblade knives from a local pawn shop and selling them to thug wannabe temps inside the plant.
After getting rid of the union over the next several years the company went public and saw it's stock go from a high to literally pocket change a share three times, filed bankruptcy once and was about to a second time when is was bought by a private investment group.
This had been a company that consistently held 70% market share for many years in the product it manufactured before getting rid of the experienced union employees and hiring inexperienced nonunion.
I did t say hire temps with no bennies. But I can see why you’d want to frame it that way. Nor have I ever absolved management of wrong doing in any of the multitude of union threads here
Fire em and hire guys that want to work not form a union.
Local manufacturing company did something similar but it didn't quite turn out as well for the company and many management employees as they believed it would...
The end result was while successful in getting the union completely out of the plant and hiring all new contract temps as their replacements, after a couple years the temps got fed up with not having any real permanent job security and started threatening walkouts and possible unionizing unless they were made permanent employees with full benefits.
Had a couple of serious injuries inside the plant with one fatal when a inexperienced but overconfident salaried employee operating an overhead crane slapped the elevated scissors lift they were working out of with the crane and knocked it over.
Prior to getting rid of union, salaried management blamed poor production numbers, excessive scrap, maintenance problems, employee issues, etc., on the union. After getting rid of union all the same problems were still there and got even worse but management could no longer could use the union as a scapegoat to cover for their lack of management skills.
Had a fair amount of felons and thugs among the temps, too. Rampant thievery of company asserts of anything they could carry became common. Female salaried employees were warned by corporate to not get too friendly or be alone with temps ever and to make sure to check inside their vehicles before getting in them and also make sure they weren't followed when leaving. A chief of a hired contract security force was removed when he was seen buying switchblade knives from a local pawn shop and selling them to thug wannabe temps inside the plant.
After getting rid of the union over the next several years the company went public and saw it's stock go from a high to literally pocket change a share three times, filed bankruptcy once and was about to a second time when is was bought by a private investment group.
This had been a company that consistently held 70% market share for many years in the product it manufactured before getting rid of the experienced union employees and hiring inexperienced nonunion.
I'll take "Things that never happened" for $500 Alex.....
I was in a union for 18 years and all they did was protect the workers that should have been fired. They always insisted on a strike vote without telling us what the company was offering and twice we went on strike without knowing what the company had offered. The union ended the strikes without telling us what the company was offering and we didn't get to vote on accepting the offer. After the first strike I found out that after being on strike for 3 weeks that I got $.05 more per hour than the company's original offer and that the company could send us anywhere in the country with 7 days notice. The union eventually ran our wages up so high that the company couldn't afford us and started using contractors. Kind of like the auto industry. When we were on strike it was party time for the highly paid union bosses who kept getting paid.
Fire em and hire guys that want to work not form a union.
Local manufacturing company did something similar but it didn't quite turn out as well for the company and many management employees as they believed it would...
The end result was while successful in getting the union completely out of the plant and hiring all new contract temps as their replacements, after a couple years the temps got fed up with not having any real permanent job security and started threatening walkouts and possible unionizing unless they were made permanent employees with full benefits.
Had a couple of serious injuries inside the plant with one fatal when a inexperienced but overconfident salaried employee operating an overhead crane slapped the elevated scissors lift they were working out of with the crane and knocked it over.
Prior to getting rid of union, salaried management blamed poor production numbers, excessive scrap, maintenance problems, employee issues, etc., on the union. After getting rid of union all the same problems were still there and got even worse but management could no longer could use the union as a scapegoat to cover for their lack of management skills.
Had a fair amount of felons and thugs among the temps, too. Rampant thievery of company asserts of anything they could carry became common. Female salaried employees were warned by corporate to not get too friendly or be alone with temps ever and to make sure to check inside their vehicles before getting in them and also make sure they weren't followed when leaving. A chief of a hired contract security force was removed when he was seen buying switchblade knives from a local pawn shop and selling them to thug wannabe temps inside the plant.
After getting rid of the union over the next several years the company went public and saw it's stock go from a high to literally pocket change a share three times, filed bankruptcy once and was about to a second time when is was bought by a private investment group.
This had been a company that consistently held 70% market share for many years in the product it manufactured before getting rid of the experienced union employees and hiring inexperienced nonunion.
I did t say hire temps with no bennies. But I can see why you’d want to frame it that way. Nor have I ever absolved management of wrong doing in any of the multitude of union threads here
In the beginning the temps were contracted through a processional temp service that specialized in supplying workers for labor strikes as were the security guards. Later on the company started hiring some on it's own via independent contract "scab" workers. Also, in the beginning a total of 28 union "scabs" crossed the picket line and returned to work with promises by company management of great things for them for their sacrifice. Actual strike lasted just a few weeks when the membership voted to return to work under the terms of old contract while company and union continued to negotiate a new contract. As soon as the company got wind of the vote they immediately threw up a formal 'lockout' which by law meant they could not allow any of the original union workforce back to work so they had to kick the 28 union "scab" workers out the door. This 'lockout' went on for a total of 4 - 1/2 years until the UAW pulled that local's charter and walked away as if it never existed.
Fire em and hire guys that want to work not form a union.
Local manufacturing company did something similar but it didn't quite turn out as well for the company and many management employees as they believed it would...
The end result was while successful in getting the union completely out of the plant and hiring all new contract temps as their replacements, after a couple years the temps got fed up with not having any real permanent job security and started threatening walkouts and possible unionizing unless they were made permanent employees with full benefits.
Had a couple of serious injuries inside the plant with one fatal when a inexperienced but overconfident salaried employee operating an overhead crane slapped the elevated scissors lift they were working out of with the crane and knocked it over.
Prior to getting rid of union, salaried management blamed poor production numbers, excessive scrap, maintenance problems, employee issues, etc., on the union. After getting rid of union all the same problems were still there and got even worse but management could no longer could use the union as a scapegoat to cover for their lack of management skills.
Had a fair amount of felons and thugs among the temps, too. Rampant thievery of company asserts of anything they could carry became common. Female salaried employees were warned by corporate to not get too friendly or be alone with temps ever and to make sure to check inside their vehicles before getting in them and also make sure they weren't followed when leaving. A chief of a hired contract security force was removed when he was seen buying switchblade knives from a local pawn shop and selling them to thug wannabe temps inside the plant.
After getting rid of the union over the next several years the company went public and saw it's stock go from a high to literally pocket change a share three times, filed bankruptcy once and was about to a second time when is was bought by a private investment group.
This had been a company that consistently held 70% market share for many years in the product it manufactured before getting rid of the experienced union employees and hiring inexperienced nonunion.
I did t say hire temps with no bennies. But I can see why you’d want to frame it that way. Nor have I ever absolved management of wrong doing in any of the multitude of union threads here
In the beginning the temps were contracted through a processional temp service that specialized in supplying workers for labor strikes as were the security guards. Later on the company started hiring some on it's own via independent contract "scab" workers. Also, in the beginning a total of 28 union "scabs" crossed the picket line and returned to work with promises by company management of great things for them for their sacrifice. Actual strike lasted just a few weeks when the membership voted to return to work under the terms of old contract while company and union continued to negotiate a new contract. As soon as the company got wind of the vote they immediately threw up a formal 'lockout' which by law meant they could not allow any of the original union workforce back to work so they had to kick the 28 union "scab" workers out the door. This 'lockout' went on for a total of 4 - 1/2 years until the UAW pulled that local's charter and walked away as if it never existed.
You haven’t answered any of my points.
Out of curiosity what was the name of the company?
I was in a union for 18 years and all they did was protect the workers that should have been fired. They always insisted on a strike vote without telling us what the company was offering and twice we went on strike without knowing what the company had offered. The union ended the strikes without telling us what the company was offering and we didn't get to vote on accepting the offer. After the first strike I found out that after being on strike for 3 weeks that I got $.05 more per hour than the company's original offer and that the company could send us anywhere in the country with 7 days notice. The union eventually ran our wages up so high that the company couldn't afford us and started using contractors. Kind of like the auto industry. When we were on strike it was party time for the highly paid union bosses who kept getting paid.
I have seen that here...workers generally get shafted either way, except the lazy pricks as they seem to be a protected species.
If you are willing to work you are generally left to haul the lazy prick's load as well.
[bleep] the unions and their money laundering schemes. There's a general agreement among the rank and file where I work, and it is that if union reps ever show up to try and force a vote to unionize us we will dribble them to the curb, put them in their cars, and send them off with a promise to hurt them if they ever show up again. And that promise is ironclad.
[bleep] the unions and their money laundering schemes. There's a general agreement among the rank and file where I work, and it is that if union reps ever show up to try and force a vote to unionize us we will dribble them to the curb, put them in their cars, and send them off with a promise to hurt them if they ever show up again. And that promise is ironclad.
I almost typed that all the way out without laughing.
And companies are? PFFTT!!
Yup. Better to halt production and then either downsize or go bankrupt so the commie fugks can have autism care, paternal leave, and free healthcare to the grave.
Makes total sense, especially while they donate hugely to elect politicians who do not represent their members’ positions.
Makes total sense man.
And when the next group of employees exercise their right to organize??? Ya, total sense.
Ask the union boys at caterpillar how their strike went?? Lol you turd.. I belong to a union and all they do is bitch how they state is ph ucking us over. In the Army if you had legit bitch you better have a way ahead on how to fix the problem. Nope not this Union.. I even told them that..
My situation is no secret. My standing on the topic(s) is way more complicated.
The union guys usually win the debate, if you judge on merits. The anti position is usualy just anti.
Along with anecdotes. (Worthless, addicted employees are not limited to unions. Nor is management putting up with it. A weird thing that has changed hugely over decades.)
Union goals IN NEGOTIATIONS is simply to get as much for members as possible
Company goals are always to get as much from workers with the smallest expenditures. Inputs vs outputs.
That's just bidness! Both sides.
There have been 40+ years of anti union programming of many. How many have worked for union vs non union, in similar jobs.
I have. I prefer union, for many reasons. Pay is one. Benefits another. But a big one is simply not being under the thumb. In a previous job I was told to quit talking about a certain issue. The threat was left unsaid. It was unfair policy, screwing a few employees. And I wasn't one of them.
But then, you have pensions.
Our company joined the IUE pension in 1995. Like most, it was underfunded. And the pensioners outnumber The current workers. The fund is dwindling.
Where i was once earning an almost $40/month/yr service, It's now around $20.
My employer has to pay $2.50+/hr worked into it.
So, this year. $2.5x2000hrs= $5k.
In return, I'll get $20x12= $240/yr. They get my money for 12 years before I retire, I gotta live 21 years after retirement before I get the principle!
Company tried to opt out. To put that $$ into our 401k. Except, it's $2 million to opt out. With only 30 employees?
I'm doing better than most here in pay and benefits, in retirement also. But, only because my pay allows me to fund my own retirement.
P.S. The IUE pension is seperate from the union. That, i really don't understand.
Yep, talking in circles. Because the subject isn't one that's black or white. It's a plus/minus problem with no zero sum answer.
I will make one hard statement. The existence of unions benefits non union workers. There absolutely are non union outfits matching or exceeding union pay. Simply because they give up on the money, but keep total control over the employees. For some, that's enough!
Mquote=Dillonbuck]Mention unions and it's never going to be boring.
My situation is no secret. My standing on the topic(s) is way more complicated.
The union guys usually win the debate, if you judge on merits. The anti position is usualy just anti.
Along with anecdotes. (Worthless, addicted employees are not limited to unions. Nor is management putting up with it. A weird thing that has changed hugely over decades.) Union goals IN NEGOTIATIONS is simply to get as much for members as possible
Company goals are always to get as much from workers with the smallest expenditures. Inputs vs outputs. That's just bidness! Both sides. There have been 40+ years of anti union programming of many. How many have worked for union vs non union, in similar jobs.
I have. I prefer union, for many reasons. Pay is one. Benefits another. But a big one is simply not being under the thumb. In a previous job I was told to quit talking about a certain issue. The threat was left unsaid. It was unfair policy, screwing a few employees. And I wasn't one of them.
But then, you have pensions.
Our company joined the IUE pension in 1995. Like most, it was underfunded. And the pensioners outnumber The current workers. The fund is dwindling.
Where i was once earning an almost $40/month/yr service, It's now around $20.
My employer has to pay $2.50+/hr worked into it.
So, this year. $2.5x2000hrs= $5k.
In return, I'll get $20x12= $240/yr. They get my money for 12 years before I retire, I gotta live 21 years after retirement before I get the principle!
Company tried to opt out. To put that $$ into our 401k. Except, it's $2 million to opt out. With only 30 employees?
I'm doing better than most here in pay and benefits, in retirement also. But, only because my pay allows me to fund my own retirement.
P.S. The IUE pension is seperate from the union. That, i really don't understand.
Yep, talking in circles. Because the subject isn't one that's black or white. It's a plus/minus problem with no zero sum answer.
I will make one hard statement. The existence of unions benefits non union workers. There absolutely are non union outfits matching or exceeding union pay. Simply because they give up on the money, but keep total control over the employees. For some, that's enough! [/quote]
Did pedo Joe make you tasty sandwich on Labor Day ? Entertaining how brainwashed and co dependent union members are.
And as usual the resident jack-asses start pointing the finger and shouting "commie"...too stupid to realize it is mostly working men trying to do for their families.
Unions must be different in Oz. I love foreigners opining on domestic issues in the U.S. lol
Having lived and worked in both Oz and Canada the unions are worse than in the US as they are more than fully supported by the government and everyone else... I recall the first time I saw a sign outside a restaurant in Brisbane indicating the menu prices were up due to it being a holiday...
[bleep] the unions and their money laundering schemes. There's a general agreement among the rank and file where I work, and it is that if union reps ever show up to try and force a vote to unionize us we will dribble them to the curb, put them in their cars, and send them off with a promise to hurt them if they ever show up again. And that promise is ironclad.
My situation is no secret. My standing on the topic(s) is way more complicated.
The union guys usually win the debate, if you judge on merits. The anti position is usualy just anti.
Along with anecdotes. (Worthless, addicted employees are not limited to unions. Nor is management putting up with it. A weird thing that has changed hugely over decades.)
Union goals IN NEGOTIATIONS is simply to get as much for members as possible
Company goals are always to get as much from workers with the smallest expenditures. Inputs vs outputs.
That's just bidness! Both sides.
There have been 40+ years of anti union programming of many. How many have worked for union vs non union, in similar jobs.
I have. I prefer union, for many reasons. Pay is one. Benefits another. But a big one is simply not being under the thumb. In a previous job I was told to quit talking about a certain issue. The threat was left unsaid. It was unfair policy, screwing a few employees. And I wasn't one of them.
But then, you have pensions.
Our company joined the IUE pension in 1995. Like most, it was underfunded. And the pensioners outnumber The current workers. The fund is dwindling.
Where i was once earning an almost $40/month/yr service, It's now around $20.
My employer has to pay $2.50+/hr worked into it.
So, this year. $2.5x2000hrs= $5k.
In return, I'll get $20x12= $240/yr. They get my money for 12 years before I retire, I gotta live 21 years after retirement before I get the principle!
Company tried to opt out. To put that $$ into our 401k. Except, it's $2 million to opt out. With only 30 employees?
I'm doing better than most here in pay and benefits, in retirement also. But, only because my pay allows me to fund my own retirement.
P.S. The IUE pension is seperate from the union. That, i really don't understand.
Yep, talking in circles. Because the subject isn't one that's black or white. It's a plus/minus problem with no zero sum answer.
I will make one hard statement. The existence of unions benefits non union workers. There absolutely are non union outfits matching or exceeding union pay. Simply because they give up on the money, but keep total control over the employees. For some, that's enough!
That is far more bullshit than I care to address. Stay in PA or wherever the hell you are.
My situation is no secret. My standing on the topic(s) is way more complicated.
The union guys usually win the debate, if you judge on merits. The anti position is usualy just anti.
Along with anecdotes. (Worthless, addicted employees are not limited to unions. Nor is management putting up with it. A weird thing that has changed hugely over decades.)
Union goals IN NEGOTIATIONS is simply to get as much for members as possible
Company goals are always to get as much from workers with the smallest expenditures. Inputs vs outputs.
That's just bidness! Both sides.
There have been 40+ years of anti union programming of many. How many have worked for union vs non union, in similar jobs.
I have. I prefer union, for many reasons. Pay is one. Benefits another. But a big one is simply not being under the thumb. In a previous job I was told to quit talking about a certain issue. The threat was left unsaid. It was unfair policy, screwing a few employees. And I wasn't one of them.
But then, you have pensions.
Our company joined the IUE pension in 1995. Like most, it was underfunded. And the pensioners outnumber The current workers. The fund is dwindling.
Where i was once earning an almost $40/month/yr service, It's now around $20.
My employer has to pay $2.50+/hr worked into it.
So, this year. $2.5x2000hrs= $5k.
In return, I'll get $20x12= $240/yr. They get my money for 12 years before I retire, I gotta live 21 years after retirement before I get the principle!
Company tried to opt out. To put that $$ into our 401k. Except, it's $2 million to opt out. With only 30 employees?
I'm doing better than most here in pay and benefits, in retirement also. But, only because my pay allows me to fund my own retirement.
P.S. The IUE pension is seperate from the union. That, i really don't understand.
Yep, talking in circles. Because the subject isn't one that's black or white. It's a plus/minus problem with no zero sum answer.
I will make one hard statement. The existence of unions benefits non union workers. There absolutely are non union outfits matching or exceeding union pay. Simply because they give up on the money, but keep total control over the employees. For some, that's enough!
That is far more bullshit than I care to address. Stay in PA or wherever the hell you are.
Anti union brainwash!😁
Open the eyes, kick those brain cells into gear.
Unions suck in their support for communist ideas. For supporting Dems. For sometimes protecting driftwood. For the corruption.
But, there are some positive attributes. That's my whole point. To try to have honest, objective discourse.
Hell I support most of the anti union arguments. Unions are doomed if they don't clean up their act. And their power structure never will.
Any company that would fairly compensate workers, And not put them under the thumb, would be better than a union job. The power trip is the big one. Few can actually allow dissent. Not when they know they can stifle it.
Winter is coming, hope all the Deere employees in my area can make it on $150 a week strike pay, wait that is less than the signing bonus for a year. Fug them
If you're the Heisman Trophy QB at some Big Ten school it might make sense to have an agent. For the average wage earner, it does not. And "the union" mandates that it has exclusive rights to be your agent. That's HORSESHIT.
Winter is coming, hope all the Deere employees in my area can make it on $150 a week strike pay, wait that is less than the signing bonus for a year. Fug them
Oh, but that union is looking out for them, don't ya see..LOL!!!
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/HxxJmdw/Guy-Checks-Out-Girl-UAW-John-Deere.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/zQCjTQy/Guy-Checks-Out-Girl-Mahindra-John-Deere.jpg)
You ignore that almost everyone who gets a pension also has a 401k. Now there are some variances in that some contribute to their pension(I dont) and some only get .50 on the dollar to 6% on their 401k, but having both is much better than a single 401k.
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/GmKxS3rH/strike.jpg)
![[Linked Image from media.giphy.com]](https://media.giphy.com/media/MAWYqHe6GqqZfFnafC/giphy.gif)