Sermon begins at 17:30.

School of Prayer, Prayer 101

I don't realy want to watch that. Is this more gay hating or pray the gay away schidt from Chicken Little.

PS Please don't quote me, I don't want the OP to be harmed by my words.

What?

Dang, takes 17:30 to get to the sermon?

What'd they use the previous 17 and a half minutes for? Asking for donations?

There's a lot of people in need of prayer around here.
They want their prayers to be effective as do those who ask.
These classes are to help those of us here.
You three have no interest or effect in this subject matter other than to Be the devil's advocates.
YOU are the people in Matthew 8 that went to meet with Jesus...


"So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils.
And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts."

I googled Pastor Roger. While I am a conservative Christian, I would not sit under him given the type of attention he likes to bring upon himself.

Your hypocisy and hatred for that which is not to your approval are doing far more good than harm. People look at you and think that if you are what Christianity is all about, they don't want anything to do with it.

Then Jesus told this parable: “A man had a fig tree that was planted in his vineyard. He went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. So he said to the keeper of the vineyard, ‘Look, for the past three years I have come to search for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Therefore cut it down!

Satan is going to personally slam a cactus dilldough up your ass.

I hope nobody quotes me.

Why don't you want anyone to quote you Paul?

and, is [bleep] the correct spelling to avoid being bleeped?

And if you pray real hard HC you may be able to rebuke the demons out of you, but I doubt it.

So God is your cosmic vending machine and Roger taught you how to recognize a Canadian quarter.

For being so enamored with Gods word you sure to fall for a lot of fancy talk.

Pharisees love sacrilege so long as it’s THIER sacrilege.

My kids know how to pray; they learned it from our Lord. It’s easier to recognize counterfeit by memorizing the real thing.

Hint.

HC never fails to be funny

Happy Camper,

How often do you and wabigoon have phone sex?

LOL

Good. I wouldn't expect Google to put any good grace gospel preacher at the top of the page with anything else to say of them. The world loves their own. He is not of the world, therefore the world hates him.
I don't listen to worldly popular millionaire preachers that preach false work based gospels.
I'm not saying you are worldly like goober, Cub.
I don't care if someone doesn't like who I post because of this or that, but the other guys have rejected anything having to do with the basic teachings of the Bible and hate anyone who simply wants to encourage believers and the lost to Christ's gift.

Here's one of the reasons Google would call Pastor Roger a "hate preacher," because he hates this.

Google is pro-human trafficking.


Right.

There is a way to preach about the LGBTQ issue in the world right now that is not hateful. I've heard it & I appreciate it. He does not do it

When people used the Law of God to dishonor people made in the image of God, Jesus was quick to remind them they were on the wrong side of God.

They are the ones who do not want to so much as think about God. The pedo human traffickers dishonor themselves as well as the little children they force.
It will offend the LGPW Campfire trolls and liberal preachers, but I'm OK with that.

I will take the side of God Who thinks of it this way.
"Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven."

Everybody is somebody that God loves. Everybody is somebody for whom Jesus died.

It’s OK that our views differ on this matter.

*^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hey Crappy,

Is this you?

Based On your posts HC you present God as a genie in a bottle. If you rub the bottle the right way, pray the right way, have the right kind of emotion, have enough emotion, say the right things, don’t say the wrong things you believe that you can manipulate God into granting your will.


That’s not Christian.

Instead of admonishing them maybe you should pray for them.

That might be what Jesus would do.

Reprobates! All of you!

My quote is found in the book of Genesis chapter 19, a few years before Moses was given the law for Israel. Don't let that stop you boys from your attack of this edifying subject on prayer though.

THIS is the solution that you all need.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

You reprobates don't be fugging up Crappy's revenue stream now!


Watch the videos! Or burn in hell!

Gee,

ya' think???

How can I be a reprobate when I was never even a probate?

Should that be in my "Ever wonder" thread?

Hey Jim,

whatchu think? Can we Roman Catholic types get into heaven? Maybe we gotta do a stint in the Purgatory?

Crud. I forget the procedure to get loved ones out of Purgatory.


Wasn't it a special prayer?

That's Priceless! ^^^

It's good that's a short haired Jesus or Crappy would be pissed.

When is this crappy hamper dude going to hang himself on a door knob while jerking off?

I've got the old man's prayer book. Probably one of them prayer cards they give out at funerals in there, maybe one of them explains it?

Wasn't Extreme Unction designed as a work around? Absolve all tha bad stuff, even for unconscious folks?

It's all so complicated.

Maybe I should just try to be nice and treat others the way I'd like to be treated? I think some wise person suggested something along those lines, no?

Growing up in SoCal I think I've seen that in real life.

No, I believe that is not going to be good enough.

Dude, I done been Baptized, was an altar boy, been Confirmed, went to parochial school, went to Wed night catechism instruction in HS.

And most importantly, almost 35 years ago:

I think there's also some money involved, probably around 10 to 20% of your annual gross.

When one opens the New Testament and asks the question, "What does it look like to be a follower of Jesus...?", it's crystal clear. If one doesn’t 'get' anything else, here's the thing that should describe one, here's the thing that should characterize one 'more than anything else', here's what He said to His closest followers before He left the earth - "By *this* everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.” Period.

It's not by reading the Bible, and it’s not by memorizing Bible verses, it’s not by condemning others for their sins, and it’s not by going to church on Sunday morning, it’s not by the gold cross hangin' on one’s neck, and it's not by one’s church bumper sticker, it's not by what kind of family one was born into or raised in, and it's not that one was baptized, and it's most certainly not by the disdain that one has for certain people, and it's certainly not by policing other people's behavior either, and it’s definitely not by conforming to “orthodox Christianity.”

It’s OK that we see things differently.

Prayer is powerful.

You would not know that if God had not given His followers the Holy Scripture. You got that directly from the book you reject.

The new Testament also contains Matthew 8.

All of scripture is God's Word.

You are wrong.

The power and work of prayer is described in the Bible. It says nothing about emotion.

Do you believe in prayer?

Do you consider this hateful?

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality" 1 Cor 9

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for their sin. That's a fact.

Define prayer, there's about as many definitions as there are believers... let's hear your version.

Kent

Your words make no sense.

Prayer is making supplication to God. It is talking to God.

No, I do not consider those passages to be hateful as they are the word of God, We are all sinners, none better than the others. Romans 3:10-18

Saying that, the Bible can be used in a hateful manner towards others.

Let's hear how you pray, you have come here constantly challenging everyone else's Christianity, belief and now prayer. Many of us have opened up personally with our faith in Christ, yet you ask if we are Christians or believe in prayer.

Let's hear you pray.

Kent

You are being obtuse. I just told you how I pray.

My prayers are very many. A frequent prayer I engage in is for God's will to be made manifest at all times and in all things.

There are many, many examples in scripture. Do you read the Bible?

Based On your posts HC you present God as a genie in a bottle. If you rub the bottle the right way, pray the right way, have the right kind of emotion, have enough emotion, say the right things, don’t say the wrong things you believe that you can manipulate God into granting your will.


That’s not Christian.

You are being vague in your accusations. The LGBT community considers the Bible to be hateful. The LGBT community considers any scripture telling them that their life is sin to be hateful.

Hateful is an emotion. People through the word "hateful" around like a magic bullet.

You are wrong.

The power and work of prayer is described in the Bible. It says nothing about emotion.

Do you believe in prayer?

So that's a no, you won't share a prayer... are you a Christian?

Kent

You are charismatic?

I am absolutely correct. The emphasis of prayer always concludes with “Your (God’s) will be done”. This was the conclusion of Christ’s prayer on the cross. What HC advocates is exactly what I described based on his limited explanation of his view.

They say there’s someone in the world for everyone. OldHat and HC are a special coupling.

A lot of daughters of pious men who believed they knew God’s word better than anyone, were eager to hop in bed at the ripe age of 14-15, when I was in high school...Can honestly say, men just like you two idiots caused them to spread their legs faster and sooner, than many of the other girls.

Saint Mary’s and Grace First Baptist Church Dad’s, gave the community some fantastic little whores.

Thanks, Dad.

🦫

That’s only one of the unfortunate results of churches preaching legalism and morality rather than the Gospel. The Gospel teaches the believer that he’s sinful rather than an example of good morality. It teaches that morality doesn’t make a person a Christian. People suck at keeping the 10 commandments.

Edited to add: as a general rule American secular and Christian culture are guilt and shame based. There is no offer of forgiveness in either.

Clearly; and absolutely.

When people use the Bible to justify mistreating other people, not only are they on the wrong side of history, but Jesus would be quick to remind them that they’re on the wrong side of God.

It is OK to not be a fan of religion…including “orthodox Christianity”…but still be OK with Jesus.

Hmm…. You openly challenged me, my beliefs and salvation….then you declined to back up your statements. Now here you are again.

Your “challenges” remind me that Dunning-Kruger kid….. Starman.

So your sock puppet is Oldhat.

Kent

Too funny. But, accurate.

TF49 is OldHat’s sock.

🤦‍♀️

🦫

No, you and krp are wrong. Just more Starman type diversions on your part.

I think I can live with that ^^^^^^^^^^^^, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak.







And yes, it sorta is OK

Kent….krp….

I have made a significant error. I responded to you with “K22” in mind. I am now embarrassed.

I extend my sincere apology to you.

TF49

Whatever you say...🦫

Hateful Camper better hope God makes a place in heaven for idiots.

You speak a lot non-sense and pretend it makes sense.

All the apostles were orthodox Christians.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=define+orthodox&ia=definition

Read the Bible.

"if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land." 2 Chron 7:14

No problem, I thought of that scenario also, it's all good.

Kent

No they weren’t.

Christianity was a brand new faith, that began with Jesus’ Resurrection. There was no “traditional and established faith” of Christianity prior to this.

It’s easy for some ‘Christians’ to love their religion of Christianity more than they do the people for whom the religion of Christianity was given.

And sometimes they end up hurting people with their ‘Christianity’ that was given for people, and then they wonder why people don’t wanna get involved in their ‘Christianity.’

Some people have given up on Christianity because they ran into some ‘Christians’ who seemed to love their religion of Christianity more than they loved them.

Polar opposites of Jesus.

If all Christians were more like Christ, the world would be Christian

Oh, hello.
Ya, you've made it clear in other threads your "belief" and then you challenge anyone to clarify theirs hoping you can come up with some flaw based on your literal reading of scripture. I think Christ called people who did that "Lawyers", religious leaders who interpret the scriptures from some legal perspective.
The very first instruction from Jesus was to.................FIRST seek the Kingdom............which leaves the question, where is the Kingdom of which he answered with exactly where it was at. It would seem that many don't believe him.

Where is Starman, I rather enjoyed his posts. Gus also.

.
[/quote]
Read the Bible.

"if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land." 2 Chron 7:14[/quote]

I don’t see how that verse either proves your point or disproves my statement of observation. The promise contained from that often mis quotes verse was specific to national Israel not spiritual Israel.

The fact remains that HC has presented a view of prayer that makes God a genie in a bottle to be used as man sees fit. The only instruction that one needs on prayer was given by Christ. Prayer isn’t a technique, method or mode for making things happen.

I think that’s what he meant when he said “that’s not Christian”… aren’t you agreeing?

The doctrines of orthodoxy are the doctrines established by Christ. By definition, if you deviate from Christ's teachings you are unorthodox.

What you are saying is those who do not follow the word of God as taught in the Bible are sinning. I agree.

Some people have given up on Christianity because they followed false messiahs who make stuff up outside of Scripture.

I was not clear.

I am not agreeing with his claim that Happy Camper is presenting God as a "genie in a bottle".

I went to the University of Southern Mississippi in Hattiesburg. Right across town was William Carey Baptist College. A lot of fathers thought sending their daughters to that school would keep them out of trouble. LOL.

Oh ok I see

IZ is correct about that; I suggested “cosmic vending machine” but same/same.

What often passes for ‘Christianity’ nowadays is very different from the brand new governing ethic that Jesus established for His brand new movement; what often passes for ‘Christianity’ nowadays is very different from the first-generation passion of what it meant to follow Jesus back then.

And that may be why so many ‘Christians’ aren't connecting with so many other people nowadays. The gospel of grace was and is an irresistible message. The first century approach of advancing the gospel of grace modeled by Jesus and His apostles and His other followers is the exception rather than the rule nowadays. It’s no wonder that so many resist it, reject it, and rebuff its professed adherents. The fault does not lie with Jesus or His teachings or His life’s example. He taught a simple ethic: “Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.”

But a heckuva bunch more than that is exemplified by many ‘Christians’ nowadays...and they’d seemingly rather only correct unbelievers than connect with them. Those first century Jesus followers lived in the armpit of the Roman Empire, and they were a subjugated people. Life was hard for them every single day in ways that we can’t even imagine. Would they be attracted to what passes for ‘Christianity’ nowadays...? Not likely. But they were attracted to the early...and accurate...Christian faith. They were attracted to what Christianity originally was. Which is often very different from what it is now.

The “doctrines of orthodoxy”…what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true…is a man-made conglomeration of creeds, catechisms, and confessions; to say these were “established by Christ” is a manipulative attempt to tell people what they are ‘supposed’ to believe. If creeds and confessions and catechisms float your boat, then have at it.

I’ll draw my own conclusions on these matters, rather than have em’ dictated to me by someone else (another man), like Pope’s and Archbishop’s and other ecumenical ‘leaders’ and such.

One would think that if the living Spirit of God…the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead…actually dwelled within a believer, that ‘that’ believer, when asked about ‘his’ beliefs and ‘his’ views regarding ‘his’ faith, could respond in an individualistic way that pertains to…and is representative of…‘his’ walk with God, rather than ‘only’ just regurgitating what he read that God said to someone else over 2,000 years ago.

I don't spell well, so.

Someone ask Sloppy Crapper if we can move on to (Part 2) now.

I think that he posted the link to 2.

I’m not gonna watch it like I didn’t watch one.

I watched one of his videos a couple of months ago but he would discuss it with me.

Happy Camper is a sockpuppet sabotaging the Christian brand.

Kent

Well......you're trying to play switch again....you made allegations about me and how I believe. I simply asked you to back up those allegations and .... you folded.

And, like Starman, when you are backed into a corner...or find yourself holding some untenable position you bob and weave... you try to change the subject and avoid backing up what you say.

I simply asked you to explain why you accused me of rejecting truth. So, what truth is it that you think I rejected? You said it, not me.

I also note this comment from you:

"It is obvious you don't understand who you are or who God is even though it plainly says in the scriptures you read. You have no idea how to enter in the Kingdom nor how to see the face of God, but yet you want to preach to me in an effort to lead me down some primrose path.”

So, tell me why it is that I "don't understand who" I am .... you can also explain how you concluded that I have "no idea how to enter in the Kingdom.."

Aren't you being a bit "Lawyers" like here?

As usual, Old Hat and Wabigoon made very Biblical points and expressed the love of God in truth.

Also as usual, the hateful trolls took the beginning of edifying, life saving classes and TRIED to thwart the will of God .
It reminds me of the passages that show how wicked Satan is by his twisting of God's words and misrepresentation of what He said.
I have to ask,
What kind of men are adversaries of that which is trying to help others come to know Christ?
What kind of devils are adversaries to the believers who have prayers actually answered by God, believers who have faced demonic battles?

All I have to say is that I appreciate Old Hat and Wabigoon's prayers and courage to Use God's Word in the midst of evil attacks. I appreciate their prayers. I can't say that about all.

I am convinced that is correct.

Yep I think I’d agree.

It's either that or he thinks he's Jesus.

HC

What makes you assume that you have some authority to come to this forum and set yourself up as “the sole representative” of the Christian faith?

Why do you assume or willfully misrepresent other Christian’s who challenge your unorthodox views of the Christian faith?

You present yourself as an expert and teacher. Why do you not discuss the issues with people who try to engage you in discussion?


I’m voting sock puppet. Sock puppet Beto.

I think Jesus is the hope for the world…and for the people of the world…and His followers are sometimes to a significant degree a vehicle of expressing that hope.

To me, it’d be cool if the unchurched, the dechurched, or even other ‘Christians’ could see the original version of Christianity that first-century followers found so attractive that it was worth living and dying for. Against incredible odds, it not only survived, but thrived. Through all the muck and the mire, we are still invited to embrace this original version that turned the world upside down.

The Charismatic Movement tried that very thing beginning with the AzusaStreet revival. The Restoration movement tried also. Both movements utterly failed which begs the question why.

Hate Filled Camper be like "ffucgk 'em, I don't care what Jesus did," I am going to cast out the queers.

When the scribes who were Pharisees saw Jesus eating with these people, they asked His disciples, “Why does He eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17On hearing this, Jesus told them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

DO NOT QUOTE

What's with not quoting?

👊🏻

[/quote]


Well......you're trying to play switch again....you made allegations about me and how I believe. I simply asked you to back up those allegations and .... you folded.

And, like Starman, when you are backed into a corner...or find yourself holding some untenable position you bob and weave... you try to change the subject and avoid backing up what you say.

I simply asked you to explain why you accused me of rejecting truth. So, what truth is it that you think I rejected? You said it, not me.

I also note this comment from you:

"It is obvious you don't understand who you are or who God is even though it plainly says in the scriptures you read. You have no idea how to enter in the Kingdom nor how to see the face of God, but yet you want to preach to me in an effort to lead me down some primrose path.”

So, tell me why it is that I "don't understand who" I am .... you can also explain how you concluded that I have "no idea how to enter in the Kingdom.."

Aren't you being a bit "Lawyers" like here?




[/quote]

No I'm not playing switch. Those allegations were made based on your posts on the other thread and past posts on threads.
Do you believe that Jesus said that we are gods? Is the Bible written in symbolism and numerology or is it to be read literally?
We'll start there.

You know better than that Frank, no one is trying to thwart the will of God; It's you personally that we are thwarting.

We've read your accounts of your so called "demonic battles" with girlfriends, dogs, and preachers.
We are not impressed and neither is God.

Narcissistic personality disorder
NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER

Overview
Narcissistic personality disorder — one of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.



😄 NV constantly thinks that anyone should be impressed with his opinions and be impressed with him.🥱

The worst thing is what he and his buddies think about the God of the Bible.

Frank is a Toggle Pussy.

You just described yourself

You sound like the pot calling the shiny pan black - it's your reflection.

Whenever I see any of your posts it reminds me of this song:

Woohoo, that's a good closing song Wabigoon! 🤠 👍📖

It's the dangedest thing I ever saw.

You reprobates are jus to privleged to fathom Happys teachings.

Anyone who has seen this Movie knows the lead up to this scene and how much of a snakeoil salesman Eli was.

Wish Bin would let us cyber execute our self declared man of god / spiritual leader Happy Copeland like this somehow in the world of 1,s and 0,s.
Aint no near death experience hand of God intervention gonna save ya from this.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh.
Most def need a BTT for this for our multiscreening sock puppet troll with a fake religious persona getting his little kicks on here.
Little female dog mofo.......

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Only one problem with that antlers,


seems there's no money in it.

Or in preaching/teaching it.

On the face of it, that's pretty hilarious.

Do I get the little brunette with the ponytail, second from the left?

[/b]

Originally Posted by K22

Well......you're trying to play switch again....you made allegations about me and how I believe. I simply asked you to back up those allegations and .... you folded.

And, like Starman, when you are backed into a corner...or find yourself holding some untenable position you bob and weave... you try to change the subject and avoid backing up what you say.

I simply asked you to explain why you accused me of rejecting truth. So, what truth is it that you think I rejected? You said it, not me.

I also note this comment from you:

"It is obvious you don't understand who you are or who God is even though it plainly says in the scriptures you read. You have no idea how to enter in the Kingdom nor how to see the face of God, but yet you want to preach to me in an effort to lead me down some primrose path.”

So, tell me why it is that I "don't understand who" I am .... you can also explain how you concluded that I have "no idea how to enter in the Kingdom.."

Aren't you being a bit "Lawyers" like here?




[/quote]

No I'm not playing switch. Those allegations were made based on your posts on the other thread and past posts on threads.
Do you believe that Jesus said that we are gods? Is the Bible written in symbolism and numerology or is it to be read literally?
We'll start there.

[/quote]


Well of course you are indeed playing switch.

Consider what you have just posted: "Those allegations were made based on your posts on the other thread and past posts." [b]This is just pure baloney. You cannot back up your allegations so you just conjure up something and pretend that your baloney somehow justifies a very specific allegation you made.

You bob and weave avoid backing up your own baseless allegation.... get this..by doing it again..... you try to back up your baseless allegation that I "reject truth" by making even more baseless accusations!

Note that you again back away .... playing switch...backing away from even trying to justify your baseless accusations by asking off topic and "new" questions like "Do you believe etc..."

I have a theory.... Starman was YOUR sockpuppet.

Meh....



Edit to add: From an article on "debate" that describes Starman's "switch/bob & weave" style....."....These techniques are normally invoked by people faced with unanswerable argument to the contrary of their position, or when faced with a relevant question that they cannot answer consistently with their stated claim."

Sorry for the bold text... got a new computer with a very touchy pad.

No I'm not playing switch. Those allegations were made based on your posts on the other thread and past posts on threads.
Do you believe that Jesus said that we are gods? Is the Bible written in symbolism and numerology or is it to be read literally?
We'll start there.

[/quote]


Well of course you are indeed playing switch.

Consider what you have just posted: "Those allegations were made based on your posts on the other thread and past posts." [b]This is just pure baloney. You cannot back up your allegations so you just conjure up something and pretend that your baloney somehow justifies a very specific allegation you made.

You bob and weave avoid backing up your own baseless allegation.... get this..by doing it again..... you try to back up your baseless allegation that I "reject truth" by making even more baseless accusations!

Note that you again back away .... playing switch...backing away from even trying to justify your baseless accusations by asking off topic and "new" questions like "Do you believe etc..."

I have a theory.... Starman was YOUR sockpuppet.

Meh....



Edit to add: From an article on "debate" that describes Starman's "switch/bob & weave" style....."....These techniques are normally invoked by people faced with unanswerable argument to the contrary of their position, or when faced with a relevant question that they cannot answer consistently with their stated claim."

Sorry for the bold text... got a new computer with a very touchy pad.
[/quote]


Hahahaha..........you're kind of funny.
Still bobin' and weavin' aren't you. LOL

Starman was a straight shooter. To think that he was bobbing and weaving is a major mental flaw of the person holding that belief.

TFF...
Interesting reading this thread.
Couple posters strong troll possibilities they are running Happy Copeland.
Like Starman for one with his contrarian religous post over time.
Member since 07.
Aint posted or been seen since april of 2021..

Then Happy Copeland grabs the reigns and is 180° opposite of Starturd and is a religous zealot self appointed man of God troll.


Some of you sockpuppet troll runners really suffer from multiple personality disorders and really need attention whether it be good or bad in your pathetic online persona,s.

What amazes me is some of the rubes that fall for the stupid schit.
And can't see the lengths a sockpuppet troll will do to get its online kicks.....


SMH......
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

And if some of you don't think a sockpuppet troll can gradually shift out of one persona into another over a period of time.
You are very gullible.....

Happy Camper = Prophet Beto?

Happy Copeland = sockpuppet troll playing a religous zealot persona for kicks, control, and attention.

Yep. Fake prophet like fake mexican

Prophet Beto Copeland

Yes, ‘money’ is absolutely important to organized religion.

But when it is said that there is only one mediator between God and men, that’s what it means: one. Period. People who are seeking God don’t have to go through anything else or anyone else to get to Him. Period. Not a Catholic priest, and not a Protestant pastor either, and not organized religion in any way…not a church…and certainly not an orthodoxy, and not a book. None of that is absolutely necessary. Can any of it be helpful…? Yes. Can any of it be edifying…? Yes. Can any of it be harmful…? Yes. Clearly. But when it gets down to the nut-cuttin’…people only need to go through Jesus to get to God.

It’s very simple. And it’s very easy. Once people know the truth, everything else is just cheap whisky.

What did people do before Jesus?

Now that is a great question. I can't wait to see the answers.

Burn in hell, apparently.


Well, maybe there was a grandfather clause.

Dang, looks like I missed the deadline......

Which "people" are you referring to?

The Tribes? The Gentiles?

Native Americans? Australian Aborigines? Mongols? "Chinese"?

Africans of all sorts?

Celts? Huns? Those damn Skanahoovians? Slavs?

Its a good question for discussion. I was asking it more specifically of antlers. He has pretty much dismissed the new testament and Old Testament to the point of trashing them as useless and having no connection to modern Christianity, the church etc. his isolated view creates problems for everyone before Christs life.

The Old Testament doesn’t go into a lot of detail about true faith prior to Moses and the law but it indicates that there was true and false worship. From what we are starting to understand about the far ancient world through archeology it was much more advanced than we have comprehended and connected across the globe. I personally believe that the message has always been there for everyone even though we don’t comprehend how before what is recorded early in the Old Testament.

The story of how we got ‘the Bible’ begins with a single event. An event that was so extraordinary that it was worth writing about.

The story of ‘the Bible’ does not begin with Genesis; the story of ‘the Bible’ actually begins with Jesus. The story of ‘the Bible’ actually begins in the first-century when Jesus’ tomb was found empty, and then later He was seen. And His cowardly followers who ran and hid when He was arrested…and later crucified…showed up in the streets of Jerusalem and said “He’s back, He’s alive from the dead.” They said this to the very power structure…the very men…who had Jesus crucified. And many Jewish people in the same area where Jesus was arrested and crucified…in the area of Judea and the city of Jerusalem…embraced Him as their savior.

And the church launched, the church began. And then there was interest in documenting the words and the works and the life of Jesus.

If Jesus had stayed dead, we likely would have never even heard of Him because there would have been no church, and there would have been no Christianity, and there would have been no ‘the Bible.’

The story of ‘the Bible’ actually begins with the resurrection of Jesus. And He is infinitely more important than “modern Christianity” and the church, etc.. And He always will be.

The original version of Christianity was an event-based faith; not a text-based faith. The shift from the resurrection of Jesus to a Bible centered faith…which was done by man…has left us with an anemic version of Christianity evidenced by a poor evangelistic effectiveness and an undermined credibility. Which is the clearly the polar opposite of the original, first-century version of Christianity.

So many people fighting and bickering, hateful and spiteful assertions and accusations, wholesale slaughter of countless numbers of people, manipulated for power and money, and countless people who have simply thrown their arms up in the air and walked away and/or want nothing to do with the faith…all over a book that didn’t even exist when Christianity first began.

The first century apologetic was not ‘the Bible.’ Period. And Apostle Peter’s living hope…the foundation of his faith…was not ‘the Bible.’ Period, on steroids.

Really? I guess we'll have to take your word for that, or not.

Antlers

As I’ve read your posts on the subject I’ve the last few months I appreciate that you’ve gone a long way in developing the argument for your view. I also appreciate that you have an emotional attachment to that view because of learning it from your grandfather. I’ll share my view which is in no way an attack.

I see three major obstacles to your position. There are tangent points but the three is enough for a forum. Jesus said of himself that the law and prophets testified about Him. That’s true and is the major theme of the Old Testament. The Apostles preached to the early church from the OT and recognized their writings as carrying an equal weight. History is a graveyard of movements that have tried to recreate what they thought the new norm was based in the book of acts. As I previously stated, all churches that trace their roots to the restoration movement and Azusa St revival fall into that category. Absolute failures at recreating what happened in Acts. The Anabaptists in the counter reformation in Germany and all denominations that find their roots there. There are other movements but that’s a large chunk that are easily referenced.

Yes he did.

Again, consider the thief on The Cross.

I believe that is true.

I wish I'd move the masks before I took that.

It’s not an “argument” for my view. It’s simply a different apologetic. It’s the same apologetic held by the first followers of Jesus, those literally closest to Him when He was here on the earth. And it has zero to do with my grandfather. My grandfather was a staunch Church of Christ member, and his theology and beliefs were very different from mine.

When Paul and others left Judea and began telling Gentiles about Jesus, they became enamored with the life and the message of Jesus. And when they became enamored with this one particular Jew, they became enamored with the sacred text of the Jews. Before Jesus came along, this was not the case.

The Old Testament didn’t become the first part of the Christian Bible, first. What we consider to be the Old Testament in Christianity today is actually the Hebrew Bible, what they called the Law and the Prophets. Early Jesus followers took the Hebrew Bible and found patterns in the laws, narratives, and psalms of the Hebrew Bible that acted as allegories and metaphors that pointed to the Messiah, who they recognized and believed to be Jesus.

And they moved to adopt the Hebrew Scripture as part of their own. And the stage was set for the later inclusion of the Jewish Scripture with the New Testament documents to create ‘the Bible’ as we know it today. The Bible itself exists as we know it today because of the resurrection of Jesus. Had Jesus not risen from the dead, the New Testament documents would have never been written, and ‘the Bible’ as we know it would not even exist.

The ancient Hebrew text would exist by itself.

None of this has anything to do with the Azusa Street Revival, or the Anabaptists, or the Charismatic Movement, or the Restoration Movement.

Well of course you are indeed playing switch.

Consider what you have just posted: "Those allegations were made based on your posts on the other thread and past posts." [b]This is just pure baloney. You cannot back up your allegations so you just conjure up something and pretend that your baloney somehow justifies a very specific allegation you made.

You bob and weave avoid backing up your own baseless allegation.... get this..by doing it again..... you try to back up your baseless allegation that I "reject truth" by making even more baseless accusations!

Note that you again back away .... playing switch...backing away from even trying to justify your baseless accusations by asking off topic and "new" questions like "Do you believe etc..."

I have a theory.... Starman was YOUR sockpuppet.

Meh....



Edit to add: From an article on "debate" that describes Starman's "switch/bob & weave" style.....ONE OF THE MOST common ways to be intellectually dishonest in a debate is to dodge questions while pretending you’re answering them. You’re not telling a lie, but you’re being dishonest when you manipulate the discussion this way.

Sorry for the bold text... got a new computer with a very touchy pad.
[/quote]


Hahahaha..........you're kind of funny.
Still bobin' and weavin' aren't you. LOL[/quote]




Nope, not me.... you are still the one that shot off your mouth and then backed away from backing it up.


Let me copy a line or two from an article on "dishonest debaters.:....."

:"ONE OF THE MOST common ways to be intellectually dishonest in a debate is to dodge questions while pretending you’re answering them. You’re not telling a lie, but you’re being dishonest when you manipulate the discussion this way."

Yep.... that's you.


Another from the previous post.....

"playing switch..." switch" style....."....This technique is normally invoked by people faced with unanswerable argument to the contrary of their position, or when faced with a relevant question that they cannot answer consistently with their stated claim.

Yep, that's you.... you cannot back up what you say....

Meh....

This is the same bait and switch you tried to play on Starman. I should have remembered. You hint at your position concerning a subject when answering an opposing view, but when challenged to that position you claim false allegations are being shown and want them clarified so you can declare you never said that, even though you challenged another position.
My position on any of the subjects posted is quite clear, I've even used a few of the many scriptures show why I believe that way. But I will state one of my beliefs again. I do not and have not for some time believe that the Bible is a book to be read literally. If it was, then man could write or even rewrite the meaning of those scriptures and they have, although I think they prefer the word translate. If a book is written from a "parable" point using symbols then something done from that position cannot be misinterpreted since it is an "allegorical" story to show a symbolic sign. About the only way to interpret what is being shown is to: take no thought, Be still, cast your net to the right side, eastward was planted a garden, and go into your closet and shut the door. These are all pointing to meditation, not the Yoga style of meditation which is good for calming oneself, but a meditation to enter the Kingdom that dwells in the 90% of your mind you don't use. The 10% that we do use containing thoughts, emotions, ect. is then given up or tithed.
Those subjects the church has warned people to back away from because they are evil or of the (D)evil is the key that Christ talked about...Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
And one part of that key of knowledge to enter into the Kingdom why you are alive, not dead, since God is a God of the living, not the dead, Mark 12:27, is Astrology, Job 38:31-33, in which is written the whole Biblical story in ancient Greek and Egyptian mystic symbolism, with numerology as part of that symbolism. An example of that is Rev. 13:18 and Rev. 14:1.

How do you resolve the statement of Christ that the “Hebrew Bible” was about Him?

There’s nothing to resolve. The Law and the Prophets is an epic history of the people of Israel; and broader than that, it does tell of God preparing the world for a Savior. Jesus said that He is the Messiah of the Hebrew texts.

Religion on a gun forum ....woooo hoooo....Keep the hatred alive boys ! Lay off the booze , way too much drama when alcohol gets involved.

Yeah yeah….,the more the words the less the meaning. The fact remains that you made dishonest and incorrect allegations…. Perhaps what you posted could be viewed as accusations… but in any event, you shot off your mouth and when you were challenged, you declined to back up your statements and failed to justify your yourself.

Why? ….you failed to defend your allegations because you knew they were indefensible….. so you try the bob/weave and switch … "Lawyers?" ... you are the one placing yourself in this position..... not me,

Still doing it….. more yada yada…..




Edit to add: Brandolini's law, also known as the bullshit asymmetry principle, is an internet adage that emphasizes the difficulty of debunking false, facetious, or otherwise misleading information: "The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is needed to produce it." (It is near impossble to debunk bullshit when the purveyor of bs refuses to ackknowledge basis truth and fact)

I suspect Brandolini had "dishonest debaters" in mind when he came up with this.....

There are all kinds of inaccuracies in your assertions… for one, Christianity was considered a sect of Judaism made up of Jewish followers. That was because Christ claimed to be the Messiah promised in the OT, and He Himself used those texts to explain His identity to the despairing disciples on the road to Emmaus.

Bigger than those, however, is your fundamental internal inconsistency; all the facts he uses to support his arguments come from the very book he is attempting to minimize.

I personally appreciate much of what you are trying to say regarding the historicity of the events surrounding our Lord’s life, death, burial, and resurrection. However I believe you have fallen into a modernist trap by allowing those good ideas to justify cutting at one of the epistemological basis for that historicity though.

Notice I say “one of”? I believe the Father has multiple means of calling people to Himself and He uses them all… His Spirit, Who works in concert with His text. They’re means by which He communicates to us His grace.

As for those who suggest that these conversations are just overly argumentative dogmatists hating on each other over the number of angels that fit on the head of a pin hear this; the Lord, the God of Israel and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is a God of grace. I don TV claim to know the things of God to such an extent that I’d condemn those who contend for The Faith.

I do know, however, that He is a God of Truth, those who love Him do so by Faith in a Truth He has passed to us and I will contend for that.

I hope everyone reading this is as hopeful for the beauty of God Himself taking on flesh and dwelling among us as the Living Word! There can be nothing in all the universe with the power to change us into His likeness.

It’s OK that our opinions differ on some of these matters. We disagree on some of the non-essential beliefs; but I think we agree on the essential beliefs.

To me, Jesus came to establish something brand new to the world. He came to replace what had been in place since the time of Moses. He didn’t come to extend ancient Judaism; He didn’t come to establish Judaism 2.0; He created something brand new...a totally different way of approaching life, within the context of a brand new covenant that says "Your sin is paid for, now live a life that reflects the love and forgiveness of God as you mirror that in your love and forgiveness of the people around you." A better covenant, a broader covenant. A personal relationship with Him. No need for ANY mediators.

The entire Jewish scripture is organized around a covenant between God and His ancient people Israel. Apostle Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin, but he made it crystal clear with the coming of Jesus, there is a brand new covenant. Jesus made it crystal clear too, that there is a brand new covenant…and as a Gentile, modern Christians, even Jewish modern Christians, all are a part of this brand new covenant. And it is a better covenant with better promises.

The story of the Bible begins on Easter. The reason we have the Bible is because Jesus’ followers discovered that His tomb was empty, and they initially thought that someone had stolen the body; none of them assumed a resurrection. But later that same day, the women and His closest male followers saw Jesus and suddenly there were Jesus sightings all around Jerusalem, the very city in which He had been arrested and tried and eventually crucified.

When it was discovered that Jesus had risen from the dead, suddenly there was much more interest in the life of Jesus and Luke, a 1st century doctor, said that many people actually set out to give a documented account of the life of Jesus. Four of those documents that survived antiquity are the Gospels that are in the Bible today.

Gentiles began to embrace the message of Jesus because they became enamored with Jesus. And then they became enamored with the ancient sacred text of the Hebrews that told of His coming. So the early church got really interested in the Hebrew Scriptures, not because they were interested in Judaism, but because they were interested in Jesus.

They eventually embraced the Hebrew texts as sacred Scripture, but they didn’t embrace it as Jewish Scripture. They eventually embraced it as Christian Scripture, and somewhere toward the late 4th century, the Hebrew texts and the New Testament Christian texts were combined together and eventually called the Bible.

The Bible, as important as it is, did not create Christianity. Christianity is the result of an event that launched a movement, that produced texts, that were collected and protected and bound into a book that we call the Bible. If there had been no resurrection, there would be no Christianity, and there would be no ‘the Bible.’ Because the story of Jesus would not have been worth telling had there been no resurrection.

Who considered it a sect?

Antlers, you really should be a guest speaker at our church
I compare you favorably to Doctor James Dury, James gave a talk on the Reformation, and I've never been in Any gartering when you could have heard a pin drop.

You know what would be cool? If there were some infallible source of information about God and religion that everyone could reference so we wouldn't have these disagreements.

Like this?

Exactly not like that.

I"ve seen that too. I believe they were reliable sources, at least that's what they told us.

People refuse authority; we argue the unarguable.

Jesus came and did miracles demonstrating He was who He said He was and we killed Him.

People even argue about things as fixed as sexuality now.

The problem isn’t God’s revelation of Himself to us; it’s our hearts which refuse His claims upon us.

The disciples did. The Jewish & Roman authorities did. Read Peter’s sermon (to a Jewish audience in Jerusalem) on the first Pentecost to hear this clearly.

Do realize that he denies the need for scripture, Christ in the Old Testament?

"Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."

It sounds like you are a man of the Word.
Not everyone here agrees with that truth.
Just be aware that some of us already made the mistake of not thoroughly vetting guest speakers so that others can learn from our mistakes. That was one of my biggest regrets looking back and I am reminded every time I read the N.T. through.

Hey Crappy, Wabi wants Antlers to come preach at his church.
I wonder why he didn't ask you?

John 1: 1-4

John 1: 14-15

1 John 1: 1-2

I wonder why you turn people away from the Lord?
The church of Set must be looking for more members.

Nope, wrong answer.
It's because he doesn't want you to drive off any of the congregation.
Pastor Missy would hand you your a$$.

LoL!
She'd kick yours and throw you and fave out to the dumpster.

Yeah, but you weren't invited.
Antlers was.

Disagreements foster enlightenment.

By design?

Something the church and religious believers never talk about. The Disciples were with Jesus for quite some time. Talked with him, went places with him, but when the Preachers and religious elders drug him into court for teaching outside of their doctrine, 2 of the Disciples witnessed against him, while one totally denied who Jesus was. Now Jesus had told them what was going to happen and that He would be crucified and resurrect. How many of these Disciples showed up for that event? Anyone want to take a guess? Only John at the crucifixion and no one at the Tomb. Why is that? No Faith (which Paul preached against as it means you aren't sure), didn't believe Him, or did it not "literally" happen.
So here's a guy saying He is the promised one, does miracles, raises the dead, casts out demons, ect. with 12 guys witnessing all of this and not one shows up for the big event.

"Enlightenment" doesn't resolve into consensus, so someone must still be wrong.

Yeah, these threads always end in enlightenment.

"

Why is it everyone keeps looking outside themselves for their: "source of information about God and religion" do you think? Especially when God and Jesus said they and the Temple/Tabernacle dwell within you.

Good morning dassa,

People in the early Christian movement certainly had theological disagreements among themselves. And people in the Christian movement today clearly have theological disagreements among themselves.

Politicians disagree on politics, economists disagree on economics, doctors disagree on medicine...and people disagree with others on these things...and nearly everything else as well.

Kinda like people on the same team regarding politics, or people on the same team regarding economics...or people on the same team regarding pretty much anything else. Different people sometimes see things differently...even people on the same team. There’s nothing wrong with that. At all. We’re not all a bunch of stamped out cookie cutter automatons. Diversity and disagreements within the body of believers has existed since its inception.

Do you agree with every other conservative (many millions of them in this country alone) on every single facet of conservative thought…? I doubt it. Does that lack of absolute consensus discredit conservatism…? Nope; not at all.

Where and when was this said, and how do you know?

I actually enjoy them and have modified my opinions as a result of thoughtful input received here and in other places.

There are a few people who don’t call names or imply ill intent to those with whom they disagree and they’re interesting to converse with.

Enlightenment is possible, when a person is engaging in a thread for that purpose.

It is not possible, when a person is engaging in a thread to troll or for the sole purpose of promoting an agenda.

Those two categories of posters are wasting their life, and just as well.

And of course, the objective *is* enlightenment, not consensus, which is demanded by trolls.

That’s a good post Fubarski.

I know because the Bible tells me so.............and that was not meant to be sarcasm.

The following are from the KJV. If you follow the instructions you will know and not require faith. Here was the very first instruction from Christ...Matthew 6:33........ you can look and look, you can go into the desert, up on top the mountain, into the city, into a church/temple/tabernacle, or where ever you want to go and you will never find the Kingdom, God, or Jesus because..........Luke 17:20-21

Romans 8:9
John 14:20
Luke 17:21
Acts 7:48
Acts 17:24
1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Revelation 21:3
Matt 13:10-11
Mark 4:11
Luke 8:10
Psalm 78:2
Galatians 4:24

You may have missed the point of my question.

You know, if you guys don't quit arguing over Part I, we're never gonna get to Part II, right?

I appreciate that, and I have admired a couple of your posts in this thread so much I copied and pasted em for future reference.

In that case we better keep it going

You could be right. Could you ask it in a different way?

Now that's a good point. Part 2 could be even more exciting................

He decided to skip part 2 cause y'all kept arguing, and went straight to 3, 4, & 5.

Part 2 was posted early in this thread.

You asked a question “Why is it everyone keeps looking outside themselves…” and then answered it with an assertion (which which I agree) re: the promises of God that you learned from scripture.

This was not to “score a point” but simply to call attention to how often we who have been raised with scriptural knowledge take it for granted.

Ah yes, got it, but I think we missed part 2.

That would be a valid comparison if anyone had ever claimed that conservatism was founded on an "infallible" book handed down from God.

Understood, but Christianity is not “founded on an “infallible” book handed down from God.”

Understood, but a lot of people here will argue with you, and make that claim. (I'm not one of them).