We get to sit by and watch inflation kill everything we have and are working for. If lumber prices hadn't gotten bad enough here the child molester is now doubling tariffs on lumber imported from Canada.
https://markets.businessinsider.com...ariffs-despite-rising-prices-2021-5?op=1

It's about goddam time the American timber industry got a break. Canadian timber is not priced at fair market value and hasn't been for over forty years. The sorry suck ass politicians made backroom deals with the UAW for votes, and then NAFTA and then USMCA to allow Canada to dump govt subsidized lumber down here to build Canada's lumber industry. Basically Canada practically GIVES their govt timber from Crown Lands to their mills...in the US mills have to buy govt and private timber at real world fair market value by bidding. No business can compete under a playing field that tilted.
Don't get me wrong, I hate Brandon as bad as the next guy, and really I wish the govt would stay the hell out of picking winners and losers in the business world...but loggers, millmen and truckers have been getting screwed for so long, they think it's the new normal. Meanwhile, the west is burning up more timber than we would consume...let's go Uncle Sam.

Maybe the mill here can get started back up and the county population can recover from the 10% downturn this last census?

Yeah...but I doubt prices will come down.

Everybody good with that? Buying American goods at higher prices?

Maybe the US government shouldn't TAX the lumber being harvested on government lands...

Anyone know how many mills closed because of tree huggers and the spotted owl in the last 40 years in Northern California?

Works for Big Pharma.

Who will work in the mill when you can live large on unemployment

It's an interesting situation when one of the corporations having a tariff applied to their lumber is Weyerhauser. Another is Louisiana Pacific. These companies may be able to backdoor some of their product by having it milled offshore on Korean or Chinese ships. This will be just fine with Joe and his supporters. This tariff plan is window dressing, nothing more. GD

You must be tired sweetie.

Go lay down.

You damn right i am, fugg China, Taiwan and canada

I am. While we’re at it I’d tariff the hell out of everything coming from China and Mexico too. One of the few legitimate functions of the federal government is regulating international trade, the founding fathers realized business a trying to compete with other countries employing unfair trade practices will quickly be out of business.

Everybody wants cheap foreign schitt but then complains when their jobs go away. Oh well, we can just put them on welfare or they can get a “service job” since we don’t actually produce anything here. They should all just learn to code. Oh wait, those jobs were all taken by H1b visa guys from India because they’ll work for 1/4 pay so they can bring 25 family members from the Mumbai slums.

Since 1978 no less than 6 mills in this county have folded. Thousands of family wage jobs gone. 3 of the 6 mills had their own timberlands and were self sufficient. Then, after the treaty with Canada was signed and the economy was totally destroyed, the [bleep] in DC said, uh oh, we didn't see that coming, let's give these counties that are mostly owned by the govt some "in lieu of property taxes" money. They did, and for about a decade those payments helped county roads and schools, then a new administration was elected, the DC [bleep] said, these rural counties are voting red...why are we giving them money? With the stroke of a pen, the "in lieu of property tax" money was gone. Schools closed, the average age of a Siskiyou County snowplow is 34 years old (for which the county has to pay penalty for old polluter diesel engines). Does anybody wonder why Jefferson State HATES big govt?

Alright....just checking.


Protectionism being anathema to conservatives and all that.

Thanks. Growing up i watched a lot of them close between Redding and the Oregon border.

Didn't Biden and the rest of the dems (and some Republicans) loudly howl when Trump put tariffs on China. Seems old Joe and those who vote for him have short or corrupt memories. Said it was bad for business. Well, unless Biden is doing it.

They’ve got this new thing out called The Constitution. It mentions something in there about tariffs and borders. Call me funny but I kinda thought paying attention to the constitution went along with being conservative.

You must have a remodel planned.

Is that in the constitution?

Conrad might have a different view if it was hundreds of trucks and trains a week roaring south over the Canada border hauling beef, pork and lamb all raised to butcher weight on Canadian govt free hay...because that's what it amounts to.

No, I own a bunch of timberland and am tired of getting nothing for my timber because Canadians are allowed to dump theirs on the US market.

Did you have it in CRP?

Have you considered giving to a logger?

How does this tariff on Canadian lumber compare to construction materials from other countries, specifically China?

No

Good question. I remember the big brouhaha over Chinese drywall having enough sulfur in it to cause health problems and corrode copper pipes. But it was cheap, and prolly made the guy in Missouri happy.

Good to know could you direct me to where I can find some of this Canadian government hay? There aren't any government farms anywhere but free is free I need the skinny on this

There was good money in that deal supposedly.

Of course good for the land owner. Not so good for the tax paper or lumber buyer who sorta had to pay twice.

Protectionism is tricky.

Anything to hurt the economy.

Honk for Joey.

Did you know what is in all those refer trucks driven from Canada by turban heads?

Did you hear where the WTO won't allow country of origin labels for beef because it would schit can the Canadian beef producer?



Schit...the biggest thing to happen to Canadians recently was a proposal to allow American Milk into Canadian stores.


Your average Canuk was hollering that the milk was too damn high.



Yeah....so I have some vague idea of what's going on...

I have an idea what going on to Jim. Politics mostly

Canadians whined about American milk, yes. Page 25 in the newspaper bottom right corner. And there's American milk in our stores no one really gives a hooey except probably dairy farmers.

The US produces enough lumber to supply its housing market. Maybe, in a recession. In a boom? No chance. But imported lumber really pisses off big players so the political move is to slap a higher tariff on lumber. Doesn't even put a wrinkle in lumber exports its hair straight back mills going 24-7 up here. Americans pay the tariff at the lumber store is all.

I believe in a certain amount of buy local, protect your country's industries etc etc. But most countries can't produce everything they need including the US and Canada. The rest is politics

You are too modest.

CBC Radio was abuzz with very polite debate about dairy.

Not to piss in ya pot, but we can't buy #1 or #2 grade dimensional / construction lumber up here, because we "dump" it all on the US market.

Does not have to make sense, I guess !

hey Salty,

Maybe "we" can't produce enough lumber here during a boom, but the barges and barges of logs I saw leaving WA/OR by way of the Columbia on their way "overseas", could sure help here, instead of helping Asians.

Globalism has it benefits and drawbacks for sure. Folks in the Humboldt Bay area were complaining about a couple of mills closing there a number of years back. Were blaming it on "the enviros and gooberment regulation". In the case of one of the mills, it closed and production was moved to a brand new mill in Chile because the feedstock was cheaper there. labor was cheaper, etc and paper is a global market and the company could make millions more per year instead of keeping the existing mill going. I worked for another branch of the company and saw the info in company literature, so I know the facts on that one. Wouldn't surprise me if the other one went the same way, although they had more operations in other places in the States and probably didn't want to change to newer methods.

If we here could just figure a way to stop the lawsuits, just on fire damaged cuts even, we'd put a big dent in the need for imports. But every time the USFS or BLM puts out a proposal for harvest or such, there's a lawsuit filed within days.

But, being on a fixed income now, if I can get a 2x4 for $2 instead of $5 maybe I like Canuck lumber?

He made an analogy. He did not mean they were giving away free hay in Canada. Read the thread.

The point is not production. It's subsidies. Read the thread.

You folks have to make due with "contractor grade" stuff?

And, being an old guy, what serves nowadays as #2 used to get tossed to cut up and get used for blocking and scabbing in a piece.

8' #3 2x4 stud is $10 up here !

Truth is the Cattle industry is pissed off right now because of imports and the lock up by big packers.

Watch this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP_I4lLIlRw

Yikes.

At that price I'd have to go to 2 foot on center instead of 16" and pay off the inspector!

Yep, fuggin stupid !

4x8' 7/16 OSB sheet is @ $74.99/sheet !

If you think that's bad I priced a 4'x8'x1/4" thick piece of hot rolled steel today and that was $612.00. A little over a year ago I think it was $260.00

But that’s Canuck dollars, eh, mate?
😉

I was just making a ridiculous analogy scenario equating 'free hay' to stupid low stumpage prices Canadian mills pay for raw logs. Trying to show JC that it's an unlevel playing field, regardless of the commodity, hence the need for tariffs if one side ain't playin' fair. Outfits like West Fraser and Mac and Bloe have created an empire in our lifetimes with nearly free timber.

Yep Mike, but if you clowns stopped printing more money, the exchange rate would go back to being in our favour !

Honest question here... Seriously...

Name 5 things that will cost more (a little more or a lot more)... 12 months from now.

I'll start:

1) Building materials and equipment will become scarce and will cost a LOT more.

2) Fuel will cost a LOT more. Shipping cost will rise by 25%+

3) Interest rates on home and car loans will cost a LOT more.

4) Transportation (new and used cars and trucks) will cost a LOT more.

5) The cat meat I sell to Ling at the back door of his Chinese restaurant after closing time... will cost him a LOT more.

Now try and name 5 things that will NOT cost more...

During this recent manipulated lumber “crisis” the mills around here couldn’t fit more lumber in their yards or more logs on their landings. It was obvious from the number of loaded log trucks and the overstuffed mills that market manipulation and taking advantage of people during the “pandemic” was on full display.

I have as much allegiance to American lumber as American lumber has allegiance to the American consumer….

Gosh...are you sure?

I bet Salty actually thinks there is free hay.

Glad someone as paralyzingly literal as yourself would point that out.

flintlocke;
Good afternoon to you sir, I hope the day's been a good one for you down south and all in your world are well.

Where I'm sitting and typing, I am less than one kilometer from what once was Weyerhaeuser's most productive sawmill in BC. They employed at least 350 people directly and then likely double that indirectly, not to mention the support industry like logging trucks and equipment sales.

They - that is corporate headquarters - took millions of board feet of Okanagan timber out at what you've termed "stupid low stumpage prices" in return for supporting the local economy. Any guesses which country the profits went to?

The same corporate headquarters closed that mill and now runs "super mills" which mean that everyone other than them takes less profit because of greater transportation costs. Log truck haulers which used to run 6 trucks as they were able to to 3 runs a day locally now are either down to 1 or 2 trucks or are gone.

Indeed as you mentioned, MacBlo did well - well enough to be sold to Weyerhaeuser in 1999.

No, Weyerhaeuser weren't the best company for timely replanting without being reminded either, but overall they weren't a bad place for a person to make a living while it lasted.

Please note I'm not complaining about the decades of employment they provided friends of mine.

I would respectfully submit however that once again a lot of this is mere smoke and mirrors from politicians and power brokers. There will be folks profiting and folks paying more and getting less for it.

Anyways sir, I don't know much about much, but that is something of which I can speak personally.

All the best to you all as we head into the Christmas Season.

Dwayne

By the way, it's also humorous that, by and large, the majority of pulp, paper & lumber mills up here, seem to be US owned !

Ha, ha Dwayne !

You put it a lot more eloquently, than I.

Thank you.

Aces, you are too specific.
"American business"

They are only too quick to take our money(back, when we work for them)
Then sell off our jobs.
Then offer us foreign made, substandard merchandise, at ever increasing
prices while our wages have been stagnant. (Until recently)

Cash,
1, thing that won't increase with inflation. Wages for workers.


As to the OP?
There are so many issues and nits to pick,
I could act like a schizophrenic sniper in the center of a battle field.

So many are lasee fare capitalist, until hands off hurts them.

I can't help but laugh when those chickens come home to roost.
Kinda like when white collar jobs got cut for foreign workers.
Suddenly, we weren't hearing about educated. It was a travesty.
Wasn't that way when blue collars lost their jobs.

As to Jim, much of our meat is imported. Without labels.
They gotta tell you your trinkets are Chineese, but not that
your beef came from Mexico. (And Sukarne Mexican beef sucks)

We should tax any subsidized items imported.
Even if the subsidy is through currency manipulation.

But then, what we WE do about our subsidized ag products we want
to export?

Round and round.

Paul;
Good late afternoon to you sir, I hope you're all getting in on this heat wave we're getting and you and your fine family are well.

If I think about it for a bit, I could probably name 3 dozen people who I knew well enough that worked there.

When I was swinging a hammer for a living, one of the first houses we built was for the mill's manager and then I was friends with his son who was the manager when it closed.

I've still got a stack of Simmonds D2 planer blades in my shop from a buddy who was one of the planermen there, waiting to be turned into blades sometime in the future.

Here's a pair of my version of the Grohman done with Weyerhaeuser surplus D2 blades. The scales are California Bighorn winterkill.



As with most things, subsidies are typically not as simple and straightforward as they might initially appear.

Neither are tariffs or border closures.

When the BSE scare caused the medicine line shutdown of Canadian beef exports, scores of ranches up here went under.

As it turned out, there was never any BSE in BC, but that didn't matter.

Also it's worth noting that somewhere around 85% of our production went south, which accounted for less than 4% of their consumption.

Anyways, that was what was and this is what it is Paul.

But neither situation was simple and neither "solution" imposed by a governing body was that - a solution....

All the best to you all as we head into Christmas Season sir.

Dwayne

To You & Yours, as well Mate !

I knew a guy who worked in a Vernon BC mill.

I worked in the timber industry most of my life. If you didn't live through the tree huggers, corrupt government sales that deposits were accepted for and then stopped by some paid for judge. Money not returned for years. Families losing incomes, homes, with no future to look toward! Mills from mid California to Northern Washington. Closed!! The Crown timber subsidies supported by the Canadian government, pushed through the border, at cheap prices. As far as I'm concerned the Canadian timber should be banned from our country forever. F uck Canada as far as I'm concerned they became a communist government years ago, and are no friend of the United States. Rant over.

Jim;
Good afternoon sir, I hope you and your fine family had a decent day.

There used to be a couple up there but the Tolko mill was the largest I want to say?

Vernon has the reputation of being the "Surrey" of the Okanagan, which means the most crime and such.

It's a pretty city though with a rich ranching heritage. The O'Keefe Ranch was just outside of town to the north.

https://okeeferanch.ca/

All the best to you all as we head into the Christmas Season Jim.

Dwayne

BC30cal,
How do you turn those D2 blades into knives?
Forge or grind?
Do you heat treat them, or send them out?

Lets go Brandon!

For our Canadian campfire members.... that idiot in the White House that is screwing Canada over, is a fu^ king embarrassment...

why do democRats, get on their knees and spread their ass cheeks for Hispanic illegal aliens and the countries they came from, who give us nothing, but illegal aliens,
and demand free money from us....

then turn around and short sheet Canada, who are among the best friends this nation has....

God do I hate liberals/ democRats........but then again, the love anyone who screws this country over... because they hate our nation as much as anyone else in the world...

Apologies to Canada, if that is worth anything...

Dillonbuck;
Good evening to you sir, I hope the day behaved for you all out east and you're all well.

Because I've no access to heat treating equipment, at present I've been cold grinding them, which of course isn't the fastest or likely the best way to do it.

It's hard on abrasives too for sure, but if one is careful to have a big bucket of cold water there and keep the steel from discoloring it seems to work okay.

I'll note folks have said they're too brittle, but when I got this batch of blades, I put one in a vice and attempted to break it, then tried with great enthusiasm with a 22oz hammer to break it and didn't, so I figured it's not super brittle.

The ones in the photo I did with a disc sander as I was experimenting with a specific blade profile, which I more or less achieved, but it's tough to keep clean lines that way so those I was less satisfied with.

Thanks for the question, hopefully that answer made sense and all the best to you folks as we head into the Christmas Season.

Dwayne

I gotcha flint, I was messing around as well..

F J B

?

Lets Go Brandon

Fugk Joe Biden?

You sailed that one right over my head. I'm in full agreement!

Jim1611;
Good evening to you sir, I hope this finds you well.

I'm going out on a limb here and not meaning to speak for any other poster, but typically these days, that would mean "Fornicate Joe Biden", would it not?

That's just a guess from across the medicine line and if I'm wrong then for sure I apologize to our picture taking and Toyota 4x4ing 'Fire friend from Utah.

All the best to you all as the Christmas Season approaches.

Dwayne

If Trump had invaded Canada like I asked, "please invade at once this Trudeau is nuts" ....... you would have lots of lumber, a 2x4 would still be 10 bucks though.

Pears sent.

Good evening to you as well Dwayne. Your assessment is spot on. The sentiment seems to be gaining ground everywhere we look too. No apologies needed either. The old saying give a person enough rope and they'll hang themselves applies to the occupant at the oval office.

Best of wishes to you and yours at Christmas time too!

Jim;
I appreciate that a lot sir, especially since that recalcitrant black bear ate all our pears and wrecked the tree for good measure this year.

Thanks much!!

Dwayne

My Aunt sends a box of pears every fall.

Williams Sonoma or some such thing.


They are probably expensive....but she is well to do.

...and I think the rest of the family secretly feels bad for us.

Thanks for the reminder to order a couple of pear trees to plant in the orchard next spring.

Bartlett? Bosque? Red?

Mmmmnn? Decisions decisions.

Geno;
Good evening to you my cyber friend, I hope you're healing up is nearly complete and you're all doing well.

Here's a link to a reasonable breakdown of a few varieties.

https://confessionsofadietitian.com/2012/11/bosc-bartlett-anjou-and-red/

I quite like eating fresh pears, but don't prefer canned that much, so I'd say it'll depend on what you want to do with them?

That said, my folks used to do dried pears that were quite good, though I'd be guessing as to what variety they were.

I'm thinking about more apple trees in the spring because, well why not, right?

All the best to you all as the Christmas Season starts.

Dwayne

Thanks Dwayne,

I love dried pears so maybe I should make sure I get a variety good for that. Assuming I live long enough to enjoy them!

I like them all it would seem. Place I lived in WA had some growing along the road that were free, that made them even better. Deer loved them too.

And Christmas is still a ways off here I think. 65F yesterday, 63F today. But, possibly snow on Sunday evening/Monday morning, Yay!!

Enjoy your evening up there, I've got a few things to do for now.

Dwayne,
Thanks, I was curious.

My understanding was it's extremely difficult to forge, and heat treating
pretty much requires an oven and cry.

Glad you are the one grinding it.
I'd screw it up, no way I have the patience to keep it cool.
You gotta be removing a pile of steel to get down to those knives.
And yes, I'm sure you eat abrasives bringing hard D2.

Makes sense it wouldn't be too hard.
Toughness is pretty important in a planer.
Brittle could kill someone when metal gets in there.

Been on a circular sawmill when we found steel in a log.
Everybody hitting the floor when the carbide teeth and holders
start leaving the saw a full speed. There were several patched holes in the
roof where a few had left the building.


How we that for a turn back toward the OP topic?


Hope you and yours have a Merry Christmas!

Thank goodness for affordable housing as well as all the democrats and Biden's empty promise

They have been working on cutting every pine in GA for a while now. Looks like they will get the rest before we know it.

You lost 98% of the audience at Kilometer...

----------------------------------------------------

Dwayne... whoever taught you to type... and the manners that you deliver in your prose... must be the finest sort of people... and should be thanked.

IMHO... you could write about the detonation of a thermonuclear device and it would be most eloquent.

Please carry on.

CashisKing;
Good morning to you sir, I hope that wherever this finds you that it finds you well.

Thank you once again sir for your very kind words, I do appreciate them and will do my best to deserve them in future posts.

Regarding my and perhaps most of the readers' struggle with the metric system sir, I am keenly aware of the struggle and for me it is real.

As a child of the late '60's and '70's, I grew up with miles and Imperial liquid measure and then attempted the metric conversion therapy beginning in 1975.

Here's part of the problem though Cash....

Where I was in Saskatchewan, there are roads or road allowance every mile, not kilometer and the fields are in acres, not hectares, so one was forced to do mental gymnastics explaining to anyone how to get or set anything and anywhere!

This all resulted in a measuring system in many of us that only we are privy to and then only on occasion.

For instance I can make sense of outside temperatures in Celsius, but the house temperatures need to be set with Fahrenheit to make any sense to me whatsoever.

While I am beginning to understand vehicular fuel consumption in liters per 100 kilometers, on my old '03 Dodge pickup which came out of Pennsylvania and thus has an odometer and speedometer in miles/miles per hour, I'm still converting how many liters of diesel into Imperial gallons and then dividing that by miles.

When up in the mountains and fooling with the GPS app on my phone, it makes no sense to me whatsoever to look at how many meters the elevation is, but I can sorta/kinda know how far it is to the truck or next waypoint in meters. How silly is that I ask you sir?

For much of my working life I was in the cabinet industry, where we'd measure your cabinets in standard inches, because Canadian houses are still all built that way, then would take dimensioned lumber and sheet goods which were also in standard inches, convert it all to metric because all the machines were European, build metric cabinet boxes and doors and finally install them into houses that were in standard inches once more.

My goodness I just read that last bit back to myself and now I'm confused about my past confusion.....

Our daughters who grew up entirely metric will often ask me a question that involves temperature or mileage and then look blankly as I respond in the numeric system that currently makes the most sense to me in my mind.

The one small glimmer of justice in this all sir is that our eldest works in the estimating department of a large construction company, so she is now doing the same thing, as in how many cubic meters of concrete will be required for that many square feet of a given pour.

I do thank you again for your continued kind words and hope that you and yours will enjoy a wonderful Christmas Season.

Dwayne

Dwayne,

If you ever want to try a heat treat on your blades, let me know. I'd be happy to treat a batch for you. Shop still isn't fully completed, but I'm close enough that I could run a finished blade or two thru the process if you wanted to see how they turn out.

Dale

Dwayne, at least, spelled it in American !

and fugg you too

How about this. You look to your interests, we look to ours. When the overlap that’s awesome. When they don’t they don’t.

No schit.

Yeah all our "Protected Trees" have been subject to forest fires and bark beetles. Better to be burned them used for building. The Horror

NO way , all the cutters and mill workers have learned to code.