Wonder if I am in need of it .

House is now 22 years old. Have two ro three cracks in paint that run mostly along drywall lines -bedding. Back door hangs crooked- or rather jam looks askew. I have adjusted and done all I could but it looks like the jam is not square. The latch side vertical seem is even though. Above is a bit of a gap on one side. Most doors on one side of first floor tend to sway open in the same direction. I have tried tricks t o resolve that but still happening.

We added a covered patio when we moved in and after several years had the lower portion of the two main cedar supports encased in rock. Big mistake as it collected water , invisibly, and the unseen portions rotted.. A miracle it didn't crash down. We extend the patio and have new supports on resting on top rather than in the ground but the horizontal supports that go into the house header do not look level to me.

We have a tile or two cracked in the large kitchen area that stems from the foundation under it. Just wondering if these could be considered cosmetic things or if bad enough to get someone out. I fear the costs and wonder how many time companies might tell a consumer - no, you are fine.

Looking for some input.

Sounds like the footing is sinking.
I have had to lift/support parts of my house and remove all existing soil 36-40" deep and pour a proper footing and replace the concrete wall with a cinder block wall, my house is over 100 years old.
22 years old isn't very old, my guess is the footing is on poor soil.

I would get the shovel out and dig down and have a look at what type of soil the footing is sitting on.

All wood construction?

Termites in that neck of the woods?

Yep, not sure if you have a slab or a basement, but you have some unstable soil under you. My last house was built in the mid '60's in a clay base subsoil. All brick and it was cracking on the north side. 23K later they had to dig out the north side to the bottom of the basement, support that with heavy brackets, then hydraulically ram supports down 43' to the bedrock, add new drain tile, then back fill the trench with gravel that will perk. Back in the '60's they just dug out for the basements, poured or blocked them and back filled with the same dirt that they dug out. Mom had the same thing happen with her block basement that bowed more than an inch which is past code for ever selling the house. Same 20K plus bill for a new block wall, drain tile and better gravel back fill needed. Water against the foundation that isn't drained properly will wreck it. Been there done that.

A 22 year old house will have some settling but not like that. It’s not level. I’m supposing it has a crawl space rather than built on a slab.

Unless you have a competent builder you trust, I would suggest getting a structural engineer to inspect it. Not cheap but it may save you money in the long run.

We’ve had nine houses built over the years, I learned something every time.

Pics off the drywall and floor tile?
Are the floor cracks offset vertically or just opening horizontally? How wide are the cracks?

If you're on a slab, they can fix it.
Just watched them do a neighbors place a few months back.
They drilled the slab and shot some sorta pressurized foam under it.
They knew what they were doing and had a lot of control.
One area they lifted about 4 inches and nailed it for level.
I was quite surprised of their accuracy.

They corrected and leveled about 30ft of his driveway while they were at it.
For the work on the house and driveway he told me he'd paid about $4K.

Do you have stem wall? Any cracks in the actual concrete? Or if it's a slab any cracks in the floor that you can see you

$4k is very reasonable.

I can tell you a friend of mine had several foundation repairs companies come out during the drought (07-09).

Quotes were from $22 k to almost $100k. It's a 4,000 sf house and a crack in the floor tile across the living area was the symptom.

All of the companies were the big, well known companies in this area of Texas.

Finally had Church Services out (also well-known). They told her the slab was functioning fine and the problem was the drought. They told her to put soaker hoses around the slab. The house never developed any other problems.

I know that's anecdotal, but that's my only experience.

I'd say call around, get quotes and references.

I am an architect and engineer... as a builder/contractor I have dealt with a bunch of issue like you are describing.

But absolutely impossible even render an opinion without a good dozen pictures or so. So Post Pictures.

The easy test is a marble, tennis ball or soccer ball. If it rolls... you have settlement.

Then again, I remember crawling under my grandfather's house on several occasions to help him place shims on top on the foundation blocks. But, those were different times.

FYI... lots of really smart people on this forum (many way smarter than me)... but without pictures... real and useful opinions will be impossible.

It depends on if they can do the pressurized foam thing (4k) or have to dig under the foundation and jack it up with pillars.....that is the big money.

I have a little rental house that was built in the 40's and it settled badly. When I had to completely refurbish it about 4 years ago I called a foundation repair outfit to give me an estimate to level things up. I was thinking they could do the expanding foam operation. Their guy looked at the house for what seemed like a couple of hours and then told me that it was "not a candidate" for the foam and gave me an estimate of $30,000 to fix it with pillars. I thanked him but told him that was (at the time) probably all the house was worth. I lowered baseboards, trimmed doors, shimmed cabinets, and got a few latinos with a few bags of level quick to make things look as good as possible and have been renting it ever since.

I'm in N. TX with the black clay soil and a 50YO pier and beam house. The record drought and rains of the past 10 years have really started causing issues on my place. I just got 2 quotes the other week, one was $10K for 18 exterior and 6 interior piers, but not much detail of the pier types or other work like repairing exterior brick joint cracks etc. The second quote is $17K for 13 piers and some foam under a porch slab. That quote calls out the pier design and covers brick work repair. Both quotes involved them running a level around the house to get the plus/minus of the floor.

I'm looking into having a third-party engineer review and certify whatever we plan to do. It seems like otherwise it's just a foundation guy going off their "hunch" of what's needed. If I'm going to spend money, I'd rather spend "good" money that has some engineering to support it.

The work on the house (Florida) was minimal.
It was one corner, about 10ft each direction from the corner of a monolithic slab. There was also a concrete landing involved that a set of stairs rested on. Then the driveway work.
The crew was in and out of here in 4 to 5 hours.

I'd never seen it done before, I was impressed.

A lot of companies around like that here, probably stay busy with sink hole issues.

Contactor work in Florida can be rather inexpensive compared to some areas. They can't charge more than retirees on fixed incomes can afford.

They probably ding insurance companies on sink hole issues a bit harder.

" We added a covered patio when we moved in and after several years had the lower portion of the two main cedar supports encased in rock. Big mistake as it collected water , invisibly, and the unseen portions rotted.. A miracle it didn't crash down. We extend the patio and have new supports on resting on top rather than in the ground but the horizontal supports that go into the house header do not look level to me.


Is the roof of the covered patio attached to the house, or is it free standing? Sinking of the rotted cedar roof supports will cause the attached roof to pull the house wall out of plumb.

I used a similar system (attached video) on overloaded "floating slabs".

Basically (an ice fishing size hole in the concrete slab)... we went thru the slab with a pile (pushing thru substandard soil (i.e. muck)) to bedrock (oolitic limestone)... then lifted/held the slab. 3' O/C all directions IIRC.

Biscayne National Park (ballast tank room where they store 2 and 3 stage compressed air to refill SCUBA tanks)... about 18-20 years ago. Very cool engineering.

[video:youtube] https://youtu.be/zLcLHgFvYtY[/video]

Put a level on your floor and see what's going on first, then a level on your wall/door casing.

Kent

One must always find the culprit of the settling first and it usually involves H20 and keeping it away from the structure, throw in poor soil conditions to boot. I wish you well in your dilemma. Never an easy fix but there are some outfits out there that are very good. A majority of these basement systems advertised on TV are technically sound fixes but are way too proud of their skills , imho!

Even if all building specs are followed and in order, something as simple as a gutter downpipe draining next to a foundation wall can cause the issue you have.

The video posted above by cash is an exellent one.

This a footing on grade (NOT excavated)... WHY?

The material under the footing is pure rock and no way to excavate that rock... AND if excavated (i.e. code required?)... the disturbance would be horrific and the original compaction under the footing impossible to re-obtain.

SO... I did a footing on grade... added a course of block. Back filled to the top of the footing with positive drainage away from the footing to mitigate frost heave.

All of the footings were done this way.

Frost heave is no joke... but so is footing settlement because a backhoe excavated footing leaves pathetic compaction (often, but not always). Pick the lesser of the two evils.

To each his own...

The whole project here bottom to the top... link below

Put a picture between the various projects just to keep them separate for now... as you look at them in the link below.

First 1,000' is Metal Building #1

Second 1,000' is "Baby Bear"

Third 1k feet is Metal Building #2... This is the building related to the picture above Picks about 3/4 way thru the link.

Forth 1k feet is "Mama Bear"

https://photos.app.goo.gl/D3EVwsEsLJMVdgDz9

1k foot designations are the daisy chain of electricity up the mountain toward the summit.

Without seeing pics that is hard to say... BUT I have a tendency to speculate that the footing was dug with a backhoe... and NOT RECOMPACTED at the bottom (i.e. loose material) afterwards... over time water (groundwater or gutter water) found the loose soil under the concrete footing and dissolved it (i.e. wet it enough to settle back to natural compaction... thus leaving a void under the footing that the footing could not bridge... thus the footing sank or "settled".

But again... only a guess without pictures.

Uncompacted soil is a real killer for many many buildings.

If you can walk in a backhoe excavated footing and leave footprints... your compaction is NOT SUFFICIENT.

Cash, you've got some very nice property there!


Did a lot of footing/foundation work early in my construction career. Those footings that were backhoe dug always got compacted with a jumping jack.

Thank you Sir...

100% agree that they SHOULD always get get jumping jacked, but have seen plenty that didn't... I'm sure you have seen similar shortcuts... most homeowners have no idea many times.

Integrity in construction is good stuff.

Every footing around here in mid TN is excavated with a back hoe or mini ex. In large part, there are no issues with compaction underneath the footing.

Footing’s are 24” wide here too for wood framing

Find someone with a laser, set up out front and check it side to side, then do the same in the back. Should be able to figure out pretty easily which end or corner is settling.

Have you ever run the math on loading?

2' wide x 100 linear feet (assume a 25' x 25' house) = 200 square feet of bearing surface that the footing causes.

200 sf x 144 sq inches per foot = 28800 square inches

Weight of concrete (assume 8" thick) = 200 x .67 x 120 per cubic foot = 16,080 pounds.

Weight of wood framing and siding plus roof trusses plus shingles = 4,000 pounds max

Piano, sofa, people and all of their chit = 8,000 pounds max

Total weight on the footing 16,080 + 4000 + 8,000 = 28,080 pounds

28,0080 pounds bearing on 28,800 square inches is less than ONE POUND per Square Inch.

Walk outside and stand on one foot.

Your boot is 3" wide and 10" long... that is 30 square inches (assuming the boot is dead flat (no heel)) and you weigh 210 pounds...

That is 7 pounds per square inch.

SEVEN times more bearing load than a 24" wide footing.

Code is stupid like that...

Settlement from lack of re-compaction is what fuggs up buildings that settle... 90% of the time.

In the case of my metal buildings... lateral (wind load) was the primary concern.



Bearing was 28k IIRC... that translates to a lateral load (wind blowing the build over) of 134 mph wind.

29 gauge sheet metal comes off at 109 mph.

Once the pallet racking is installed (AND attached to the building structure... AND loaded)... I will exceed a Cat 3 hurricane... BUT will still have 29 gauge sheet metal that will fail at 109 mph.

It's all just math... and identifying how chit fails.

Agree... but pictures would really nail the problem. Probably.

Sorry for not getting back to you guys - and I really appreciate the feedback., Like you - maybe $4k ...okay, can do ....$20k...gonna live with it.

A ball on the floor doesn't roll but many doors do swing open.

I will post a few pics here after a bit. I do know there is a bit of a list.. just not sure when one has to get it fixed vs just live with it and patch\paint.


oh yeah- on slab, no basement. 2 story home.

Hi boys- here is what I could get to show you.


From Kitchen corner at stairs to back door.
Next to Return air ( this may have gotten wet years back)
Above bathroom on 1st floor to second floor wall- attic
Drywall seem in stairway.

I'll get back here later with some thoughts about this . . .

I'm back . . .

Back in the day I worked for a structural engineer. He was hired to do many foundation inspections. The first thing he did (after initial visual visit was) to establish a level line around the house from corner to corner and in between several times over the course of weeks or more to see how much, if any, change there was. He would then come up with possible remedies and procedure(s) to fix the problem(s). Solutions were as simple as changing the drainage around the house and as labor intensive as digging and under-pinning the footing or mud-jacking to level. One house. about 5 years old. was out of level by about 10". Turned out it was built in an area that had been improperly graded for the development . . . no grubbing and benching prior to filling, compaction and building. Extensive work was needed.

We always had a wet front yard and a neighbor on lower ground behind us thought we had a leak. I think we have some natural water under us although this last dry year it seems to be dried up. They put a new water valve in front- not sure that contributed but the meter is not constantly under water like it was. I had that water tested a few times and chlorine was never found. Last year , on advice, we added gutters to the north side of our house which is a low spot between two roof valleys- mine and my neighbors. Now their is a lot less marsh-ness on that side since..

There are a plethora of foundation repair companies and I don't mind having some take a look but don't want to be snookered either.

So- do these pics warrant a call to a foundation repair guy- or just a good painter who knows how to mud?

That does not look like a foundation issue to me - just typical cracking due to slight movement of the various parts. I repair that kind of stuff all the time for my customers. Stairways and vaulted ceilings are very susceptible to cracking, regardless of the quality of the construction.

You still need to do this. It would be great if you had a laser to shoot your outside foundation but most homeowners don't. Is your floor reasonably level and/or your walls reasonably plumb? first check.

Can you feel an issue walking on the floor?

With your pictures and door swing, foundation is down the list of culprits, roof load stress is the most likely.

I'd patch and paint, watch it for a year or two, I don't see anything major.

Kent

Not being able to grasp the entire project, those cracks are not necessarily from settling. I agree with the possibility of some structural improvements in your roof structure. We oft times would see this type of separation in drywall and some of it can be rectified in the initial drywall install, but repairs are not that tuff if one does their homework!

PM blackheart.

He's an expert on foundations.

Excellent recap... of "How To Check".



I agree... some movement, but nothing crazy or severe.



Assuming a slab on grade with a thickened edge... IMHO the soil under the slab has settled a little and that has settled the building a little. Since a ball won't roll the settlement is not severe most likely ((lacrosse ball is the best IMHO... perfectly round and heavy)... or a bowling ball if no lacrosse ball handy... smooth round and solid).

I would path the cracks... fiber tape and live with it most probably.

Wetness is also a huge problem... not only settlement, but termites and black mold. Figure out how to dewater.

Depending on how much... and if really a problem... you can pull a hinge pin and put a slight bend it... Do one at a time. Not perfect solution, but a quick fix if a swinging door bothers you.

So I did this type of work for over 40 yrs. and successfully, have semi retired, only working 40 hrs a week, now,
when having your own Successful Construction Business is a 24/7 Job, and I don't care how you look at it!
Engineering has always been in my blood, and the Mind is always on the Job, even when you try to Relax!

If I'm Correct your in Texas, and Soil Conditions are everything, in this kind of Work!

Someone said, that 22 yrs isn't that old in a structure, and I agree, but age has no bearing if it wasn't done Correctly from the beginning!
We've saved brand new projects from Half "A** Construction"!
If I'm Correct The Great Republic of Texas, is Mostly Rock!
Rock doesn't settle, but it does slide, hence we would always use Spread footings, and (Dowell), Drill rebar, or adequate structural Pinning.
Usually made of steel reinforcing Material, being Cold Rolled Steel, due to a more flexible Tensile Strength!
Now, with that being said, as someone suggested earlier, how do we know what the composition of the footing is underneath?
Settling should be a minimal, but possible!
Naturally, there's movement there, that you need to fix!
On Many occasions, we were able to Underpin existing Footings, and Foundations!
Access is everything, and at times, we would tackle it from the inside as well as the outside!
Depending on the Project! It would be nice to save what's existing, and not have to spend a fortune!
Without looking at it, and being in Ohio, I'm no help at All!
Good Luck with Your Project!

HS58

It sounds to me like you had a potential water main/service leak. There's a lot that can go sideways during a leak. Flowing water can wash soil and leave voids that cause settlement. They can also hydrate soil and cause compaction issues. The good news is, if it was a leak, and it is fixed There's a chance that you've achieved maximum compaction.

When the foundation is dug and backfilled, it takes +/- 1.44 yards of loose fill to equal a compacted yard. The extra bulk comes from air mixed in the soil. When it is over hydrated the air can be purged by the water and settlement occurs as it dries....but that's not necessarily bad. Once 100ish% compaction is achieved, and drainage is working in your favor.....you have a really stable product.

Hopefully that all happens and it ends close to level.

I'd get some reference marks or concrete movement monitors https://www.amazon.com/CRACKMON-4020A-Concrete-Adhesive-Included/dp/B0049MAVYU

And see what you have happening.

Till then, latex caulk and paint.

Cash- done all that. Still happens.

Pull the trim and re shim back to level/flush plumb and square. Doesn't take much.

Thank for the remarks fellas. Kind of what I was thinking. We hear some popping now and then- was a lot worse when we didn't know the patio roof supports had rotted. It wasn't termites. Wife is a doom-sayer and wants someone out but I fear they will of course want to make a job of it. I think my northwest corner might be slightly lower than other parts but hopefully all is stable now that gutters are on that side. nice oversized ones.

I can' patch the ceiling and texture well enough to look good- I tried. So I will get a painter out and have some things done like the doors.
Have them re trim the chimney and paint it. I can't paint it because of the pitch on the roof. well that and for some reason gravity now terrifies me.

So- patch and paint needed. Maybe a new rear door. Re hang one or two others.

Oh guys I will share something I did some years back that was a HUGE thing. I had a crew come out and recaulk everything. Was very cheap. I often tell people who are looking to replace windows that I think part of why new windows are so efficient is because the seals around them are new and fresh.

That is a whole different ball of string right there... you need a level check and a whole bunch more investigation than previously mentioned.

I would do that ASAP.

IMHO... this is no longer something that can be solved on this forum. Real people in real time with proper tools and knowledge on the project... that is my summary opinion.

I had the exact same thing you described to the T on a 1960’s built house here albeit less severe but with the same just over 20k repair quote to do the work that you described. The basement had been backfilled with clay soil resulting in the same problems and same required fix and bill.

Well...............crap !

Guess we will call a few different folks out. Foundation co- or structural engineer- or do I have to call a foundation company to get a structural engineer?

Ask the guys at the barber shop who is a GOOD contractor... who is a GOOD mason... Ask neighbors... folks you trust.

Then ask a few folks to come out and take a look at it with you... give them some money for their time (Contractors get ABUSED over free estimates). Get a couple of opinions from folks... set up a laser level... I am sure you can rent one and do it yourself... YouTube video on how. Figure out the problems (and BE SURE) before you start pricing out solutions. Couple of opinions from good people will cost you a few hundred dollars in "tips"... Get solid on people... the problem... and the solution... then start.

Just my opinion... but that is how I would do it.

Fair Enough. Dad was a contractor and I sympathize with them on how people think they are owed stuff for free.
I already called on co- left a msg.