I am on the fence about this for a new whitetail rig. I am down to these two cartridges because of state regulations requiring straight wall cases and will NOT be hand loading.
Rifle will be a singe shot (probably Ruger #1). Shots will be between 20 yards and 200 yards where I hunt.

Which round do I go with?

Ballistically either one. Practically the ammo availibilty on the bushmaster has been good through out the shortage and 45-70 non existant. I'd get a Lee loader for the 45-70 for using black and lead as well as smokeless and jacketed to have it all. Mb

Both work. You can find more Bushmaster ammo right now because it works well in the AR platform (where I have several). More than adequate for deer out to 200. After that, it falls like a pumpkin. Hornady has a 245 and 250 load.

If you hand loaded, I'd tell you to do the 45-70. It is more versatile, and you could load it from mild to wild in the Ruger #1.

Real men prefer the .45-70.

Plus 1

A .450 bushmaster is a whitetail deer laws workaround with zero history or charisma. A 45-70 has history and charisma in spades and the versatility to do more. A .450 bushmaster is a fudd chambering doing what the man tells you. A 45-70 is the stuff the Wild West Buffalo Bill and other legends.

Those 45-70 Springfield's didn't do Custer any favors at the Little Big Horn...

Just sayin'.

Nope but they had em and it’s a cartridge that’s pure Americana. Riding into a hornets nest severely outnumbered was probably Custers biggest downfall. I can’t imagine a downloaded 45-70 .450 bushmaster making a difference.

In all seriousness in a Ruger no. 1 I can’t think of a single reason to go with a .450 bushmaster.

I have have both and prefer the Bushmaster mostly because of the rifle itself.

450 uses .451 pistol bullets. 45/70 uses .458 rifle bullets. For whitetail it might not matter much, but that’s something to keep in mind. Most pistol bullets are lightly constructed for lower velocity than most rifle bullets.

In a #1 45/70 all the way. In a black rifle 450.

Funny you mention that. The guys in charge of ordnance at that time were of the mind that a repeater would cause a huge waste of ammo. When they did get a repeater, the same guys thought that too rapid of a reload could cause a huge waste of ammo (Krag-Jorgenson, clumsy to reload). Then they didn't get box magazines because "they would lose them" (M1 Garand, Springfield '03).

The guys doing the figuring weren't the ones who needed to do the shooting, but they sure knew what was best for the shooters. I'm glad they eventually came around.

If Custer and his men had been equipped with the repeaters available at the time, who knows what may have happened? I think the historical outcome may have been inevitable, but it sure would have been more costly. I don't know. One of those things to ponder or discuss, but God knows where that would lead to here.

To address the OP's question, I have both a .45-70 and a .458 SOCOM. The .45-70 is very versatile and can be quite powerful, but an AR with that much THUMP is a lot of fun.

Ruger #1 in 45-70 would do it all.

450 Bushmaster? George Bush invented it, you know it's going to suck.

Our military has hit a few home runs but struck out a lot as far as rifles and cartridges. The saving grace of the AR has been its modularity to adapt over time. It doesn’t get much more versatile than an AR chambered in 5.56. The Garand was a great rifle. The M14 and chambered in 7.62X51 not so much. Historically we’ve always been a country that loves power and precision over portability and lightweight on the fly tactics IMO.

I can see a .450 bushmaster bolt action but in a falling block I’d take the 45-70 all day there’s no real downside.

450 is gayer'n aids.

I have the .450 Bushmaster in AR style, mainly because it was a stupid low clearance price, less than $500 if I recall correctly. It is a cannon, if you hit a deer at 20 yards you're gonna take a chunk out of it. Ammo has always been readily available, roughly $1-1.50 shipped per round. Just because it's newer than the other doesn't make it less capable. This thing is extremely accurate and light. It will drop a Giraffe.

Wow, this is a tough one to reply to… Ahh, what the hell! :-)

My son has a 45-70 and I have a 450. He bought his because we had nothing like it and he wanted something different. I bought the 450 because I wanted something in that power range to replace the Marlin 1894 44 Mag I just got rid of. Bolt action was a plus and I got it in a CVA Cascade. 45-70 is defiantly more versatile for reloading, brass has been easier to find (for me at least) and there is gobs of reloading data and articles on it. The 450bm has been tough to find brass for and when I do find it, it’s a buck a piece, new or used. Few people reload it and nobody uses cast bullets in them, except for me it seems. So, loading data in general is scarce and non existent for cast bullets. I’ve been experimenting, A LOT!

I guess the only thing I like better about my 450 is the bolt action rifle, everything else about the 45-70 is better. In a Ruger #1, 45-70 all the way, 450BM would never be considered by me..

Well, if they would have had them in an AR platform and plenty of ammo then it would have made a big difference. lol

I get it.

A .450 bushmaster makes a lot of sense in a straight wall only zone in an AR platform or a bolt action. My comments were a little bit tongue-in-cheek. In a Ruger no. 1 falling block action I’d take a 45-70 all day for history and cool factor and probably resale value.

The Bushmaster in most of its factory configurations is a broadside cartridge, the 45-70 at inception and even better today, is an ass to front, front to ass cartridge.

The Bushmaster could be more than the improvised pistol bulleted rifle cartridge it is, but the world is rife with the "need" for concepts manufacturers need to sell.

Seen both in action and the 45-70 covers way more ground and cheaper for a handloader.

That's right and if the 7th Cav had not of traded their Sharps carbines in on trapdoor carbines with junk Benet primed ammo maybe they would have lasted longer. Who knows but not being armed with a dead reliable arm and ammo ain't gonna do anything good for your longevity. ...mb

FWIW...
I have a Marlin 1895G 45-70. Running the Nosler 300 gr BST at 2100 fps.
Best 3 shot group at 100 yds went 0.400" c/c and 2" groups on my 250 yard gong. Longest shot on a deer was a doe at 260 yards, DRT.
In a Ruger #1, a 45-70 would be one smooth shooter.

JD338

I have a CVA Scout .45-70 very accurate I can get 3 shots in bullseye at 100 yds. Don't have the Bushmaster 450 so can't comment on that one.

The only advantage I see given your situation is the .450 Bushmaster fits in an AR verses the .45-70 that's specific to Fudd guns only. Otherwise you can flip a quarter between the two to decide. I prefer the .458 SOCOM over the Bushmaster round and personally seen it used on bears to good affect, but being limited to straight-wall cases, you don't have that option.

You can load it just as wild for modern Marlin 1895s as you can the Ruger #1. Don't confuse modern Marlins with old Marlins.

The answer to the question is ... depends.

Full length 45-70 is still not allowed in Michigan although new dimension Hornady stuff is ... still, 45-70 is far more versatile. I love my 1895, it is one of the first things I grab for anything here on the farm.

450 Bushmaster out of a Savage or Ruger #1 is cool for whitetail hunting inside of 150 yards. 200 is stretching it imho.

I searched for, and found, a Ruger #1 Lipseys special in 45/70 . It's a #1C with the Circassian walnut and a 26" tube. I have both cast lead, and jacketed handloads for it and can cover ANY animal on the Continent that I wish to hunt!


Frog---OUT!

Does anyone own the Henry side loader?

I have never liked a powerful cartridge that headspaces on the mouth.

Many don't mind... that is my $0.02 worth.

I prefer the 458 SOCOM in an AR, but it is not a Straight Walled case so it’s out for the OP.

This...But I'll add both are way overkill for deer.

If I were determined to get a 45-70, I'd probably only be looking at the Winchester 86. With the Browning 86 as a second choice.

Dead is dead.

Most deer are are killed with cartridges that could be considered "overkill".

I'd get a .350 Legend.

(Crawling back under a rock now.)

OK....I do most of my hunting in Michigan we are limited to 35 caliber or larger no longer than 1.8"....well the 450 BM was my choice I also had Cutting Edge Bullets change there 160 gr. muzzleloading bullet for the use in the 450 BM.....I have no problem shooting whitetails out at 200 yards in fact only one walked a couple step all the rest were ....DRT....

This year I will be hunting Ohio there is no restriction on case length but must be 35-50 Caliber.....so I picked up a Ruger 77 458 WM and going to be shooting 250 gr Cutting Edge Bullets at close to 3000 fps....should be no problem shooting out to 300 yards.....

I would go with the Ruger.

Because if you reload you can make the loads fit the game.

Whatever load you end up using it will work on all of the critters you will run in to.

Good read!

I used to have a .450 Marlin, which is a hot version of the .45-70. Sold it to my nephew, who still has it. Ballistics approach the lower end of .458 Win Mag.

I got a good deal on a 50 Beowulf upper, I'm having a Blast with it! Mostly reloading for it but do have some factory ammo too! Plan on hunting deer with it this fall and if I draw a bear tag next fall, using it also! I'm a big fan of the 45-70s and have killed alot of deer, a bear and a buffalo with one!

In a #1 I'd go 45/70. I have ran 350g Hornady flat noses up to 2100 fps in my marlin guide gun. My gg is not ported though and as I've gotten older those loads are too much. Lately it's been cast and powder coated lee 340g at about 1600 fps which still kicks a bit but doesn't stand the barrel straight in the air. Generally I think there are more options in factory loaded 45/70 then the bushy although during this last shortage bushy was easier to find. If you handload the 45/70 is very versatile. There are some decent cheaper bolt guns available in the bushmaster that may be worth a look.

I fought with a 458 socom for years but always had some type of feeding or ejection problems. The dies and chambers of the socom are often spec'd different. Radical took my 458 upper back and gave me a 350 legend rifle upper along with a 300 bo pistol upper for my trouble. The 350 functions well but I have to watch for setback in an ar.

Lately I've carried my 444p marlin outfitter more than anything. Those ports really help for quick follow ups and my moderate load of 270g Speers at 2200 still seems like enough for most things. If 444 is an option the factory 265 Hornady flat nose does a lot of things well. I'm not sure if a #1 is available in 444 though.

Bb

458 Socom

A guy at work has a Socom that he built. Nice but, expensive to shoot. He has dies for it but, hasn't got everything up and running yet.

Buddy dropewd his Ruger bolt .450 into a magpul. Looks cool but is a tank.


Been close to buying one several times
Am no fan of Boyds or anybother laminate stock.

The Barnes 300 grain TSX flat point is a nice hunting bullet.

My Ruger #1 chamber is about to get stretched out to .45-90. I should be able to run smokeless .45-70 loads, and Trail Boss or BP .45-90 in the same rifle, sort of like .38 Special and .357 Mag.

CDNN out of the stainless #1s in .450 BM

A blued .44 mag reamed to .445 Supermag might be cool. Get ya a rim at least.

Still kick myself for seeing one of those on a local gun rack and not getting it, years ago. Also, I remember seeing the anniversary model #1 45-70 for about $1200 new. Now they are double that

I am a .45-70 guy but the Bushmaster and the SOCOM interest me.
My biggest problem with the AR is throwing. 75 to 85 cents on the ground every shot.


Here is a full auto Bushmaster at Texas Guns. The last part of the video is best. About 30 seconds total.

https://www.facebook.com/texasgunshop/videos/1691120264237731

about 5 years ago, I went into Bass Pro in Reno with every intent to get a DPMS AR-10, saw them advertised and wanted one.

They were out of them. guy behind the counter said we have this 450 Bushmaster on clearance. I knew little to nothing about 450 BM, but it was $499. after some basic research on my phone, I bought it. not long after I found ammo at about .75c per round and bought 1000 rds. I Don't shoot it much, and never hunted with it, but In My humble opinion if you're going tp deer hunt with that cannon, you're going to blow the deer in half. It is a beast. I can't fire it more than about 4 or 5 rounds without dislocating my shoulder.

that thing is made to drop a rhino.

450 BM right now is roughly $1.50 / rd

It's not that bad for me, I load .45-70 and use basically the same bullets and powder. I have primers, too, I shoot .45 ACP quite a bit. Cases are a little pricey but last really good.

It's still not as cheap to shoot as a 5.56, though.

Lol! Easy to tell somebody who doesn't know big bores. They don't "blow deer in half" and they ain't Rhino guns. FWIW I'm a 45-70 guy who used to be a 450 Marlin guy. The less potent 450 Bushmaster is somewhat appealing to me but I haven't got one

This thread cracks me up, over and over again.

I can do anything I want with a .45-70 so far as bullets/loads etc. It runs circles around the little baby .45s. Fella can take one well aimed shot and the deal is done, or he can spray and pray....

Like my hi-tech sight sittin' there behind the trigger?


Yeah, I know, it's hard to see. Never felt a need to mount the scope and here's why.


Funny thing is you can do the same with a levermatic. Been there, done that too.

Got little use for AR platforms these days. Someone comes knockin' with one of those I'll just take it and call it good.

.450 bushmaster? 😂😂😂 ….oh, wait your serious?
Sorry, I made my choice years before it was conceived. 😎

With factory loads, they are both loaded down quite a bit. One for old guns, and one for ARs.
Handloading can boost the performance of both.

In an area where both are legal, I'd go 45-70. But southern MI uses the damn case length that Indiana started with. So 450 it is.

The .450 ShrubMaster should have been designed with a .458 bullet. The base of the case is plenty large enough to run a bit less taper to accommodate a .458 caliber projo.

Tony

Ruger also made the #1 in .460 s&w. Another option. And i just looked and it has a 20 twist barrel, so i wouldnt think youd be limited to the hotrod 200 grain ammo.

This is how you tell everyone that you didn’t read the OP without saying “I didn’t read the OP””

One thing I've found nice about my 350 legend in an AR is that brass is relatively cheap so I don't worry too much if I can't find it after the shot. With my 458 socom I put in a fairly good effort to find brass which sometimes slowed down the rabbit hunting.

I had a bunch of more pointy NBTs that were 300g and relatively thin skinned so they expanded easy. They were originally made for muzzle loading sabots but us socom guys had them run a bunch for sps without the sabots I bought 1000 of them and later sold off what I had left here for too cheap. I could have used them in my 45/70 with 1 in the chamber and 1 in the mag. They worked well on Jack rabbits and gallon water jugs at a bit over 2000fps.

I still think I'd go 45/70 in a number 1 and only go bushy in an AR or a little bolt gun like an AR mag fed ruger American.

Bb

458 socom / rabbit hunting.... sure youre using enough gun?

Good practice. Makes running deer seem easy later.

Bb

I have heard it ain’t the arrow, it’s the Indian that counts.

Tho someone on the Indian side sure could shoot. 1,000 yard hits? Caliber/firearm combination unknown.

https://truewestmagazine.com/article/last-man-standing-on-reno-hill/