2 massive wind projects on BLM land are seeking approval in so. Idaho. One, the Lava Ridge project, will have 400 windmills on 73k acres. The newest one, called the Salmon Falls Wind Project, is just south of me. I can't find any details on it yet, like number of windmills, acres, or even a map, but it will also be on BLM land. The left is pushing these monstrosities and unfortunately, we have huge sections of BLM land to put them on. Besides trashing our public lands, most of the power they generate won't even be used here in Idaho. It's slated to be taken to other states so that will require many miles of transmission lines over both public and private lands.

It's okay!

They only do that for wind or solar power...

I recall a song from some time back that started out "Boom Boom, Boom Boom." I don't think it was racist.

Those transmission lines will need to be built anyway. That is how they store extra electricity, they act as a battery. We had a wind project completed in our area and the turbines never ran for over a year because they did not have enough storage to run them. They built 3 new large transmisson lines to somewhere and when they completed the project low and behold the turbines started running.

Such a scam. Hope this crap falls through.

How do you store energy in a wire?

You don't.

LOL.

You don't.

Just like you don't store any January for when it's hot in August.

I had never heard of transmission lines being used for such a purpose before.

Sounds like a Real Estate Transaction..
Lots of Dead Spotted Owls ..
Maybe some Snail Dartters ..

It doesn't work that way! Wires don't store anything...

it's a new kind of wire, only sold by Hunter Biden with 10% going to the Big Guy.

Hahaha Hahaha..
Of course they’ll have to store that Wire
Maybe another 2 Million Acres would Work

They have 2000 Tesla battery packs at the base of each tower.

I guess they are working on a storage solution.

Heck...even with fossil fuel generation that would be great, considering how every bit of electricity used was generated that very moment.

Lots of methods for storage are being tested. They're working on one called virtual storage that's supposed to be promising. I have no idea how it works.
I read about a company in the Netherlands that has come up with an undersea storage method. Many of their windmills are offshore in fairly deep water (the article didn't say how deep). They put some tough elastic bladders on the sea floor below the windmills. Excess power is used to force water into the bladders. When more power is needed, the weight of the sea water above the bladders squeezes out the water in them through tubes to an underwater turbine for generation. These need to be in fairly deep water to be practical. The Great Lakes might work fine. They say they're working on a similar method that will work in shallower water.

OK, I’ll play devil's advocate. First, is the BLM land being sold, or leased? Second, how is this different t than oil & gas leases on BLM land? I

Well, considering 99.99% of the time wind farms sit on lease land..

They are saying some of the turbins will be within sight of a historic WWII Japanese American incarceration site in Southern Idaho.

These sites provoke connections to individuals affected by the World War II exclusion, forced removal, and unjust incarceration, and serves to commemorate those who survived this difficult chapter of American history.”

The sites provides a place “… for engagement, reflection, and healing.

Should we ask the Janpanese if they care if there is a couple windmills within sight?

I now ponder on the thoughts of how many Joos make pilgrimage to concentration camp gas chambers for reflection and healing, or maybe a lingering whiff of Zyklon B gas in the air?

Just south of Rock Chuck on 93, they are putting in a solar farm, Jackpot Solar....which is ok I guess, but it's right next to the highway in what looks like good soil and some damn nice natural grazing. With 10 bazillion acres of lava rock and non arable land in Twin Falls County, it seems strange to pick such a site.

Wind is bad, oil and gas are good.

All those Blinking Red Lights..
Like some Super Collider silently effecting your Axis.
Turning you into someone with the Mindset that lives in Massinsanity..
Maybe like someone who went to BU and is amazed on how a Garbage Disposal works ..

A few of these at 1/2 acre each is a LONG way from 73,000 acres and 350 miles of roads. That's what they're saying for the Lava Ridge project.

Something else - sage grouse. The feds say they're endangered but they're building these massive projects right on top of sage grouse habitat.

What is BLM proposing to allow for multiple uses around the turbines?

The Feds subsidize wind mill and solar panels construction. The power company has to build the network to get that "cheap clean energy" to it's customer's but they don't get any subsidizes. That cost gets passed on to it's customers.

I finally found my note about the Federal energy subsidies for electricity:

Green energy $101.32 per megawatt hour.

Fossil fuels $1.12 per megawatt hour (gas/oil $0.39, coal $073).

Green energy is going to destroy our economy!

I’d like to hear more about “virtual storage” of electricity.

Good more spare parts and metal to sale.

I worked for an electric utility for 34 yrs. They started filling our mountain tops with these around 15 yrs ago. From the time they started until I retired 5 yrs ago, I asked every senior supervisor I had a chance to speak to, if they even broke even and paid for themselves. Not one gave a yes. Danced around the question like a politician, but not one said yes. And the ruined our fuggin mountains

Agreed. The best places for wind or solar is where they don't interfere with other land uses.

a quick way to take hunting land away . can't shoot around a windmill

This is so funny, nobody gonna do a darn thing about it cept vent on the forum.

I'd much rather see them subsidies than implement a carbon tax like Argentina, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia, Denmark, the European Union (27 countries), Japan, Kazakhstan, Korea, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Singapore, South Africa, Sweden, the UK, and Ukraine have.

That Jackpot solar project in Idaho will operate at $21.75 per megawatt hour/2.2¢ per kilowatt hour, one of the most efficient in the country.

As long as they keep building solar and wind projects, we can fight the need for a carbon tax.

The new combined cycle gas plants cut emissions by half of your typical coal plant but a carbon tax would lessen the value of building those.

It's government land. They can do whatever they want with it.

I was impressed to drive by a number of ranches in north Texas last fall for a whitetail hunt that had cotton growing, pump jacks pumping and wind turbines spinning. All on the same property. I am sure they were hunted as well.

If the project is in Southern Idaho, it makes little difference how arable the soil appears to be. It takes irrigation water to grow crops in the arid west.

The soil in question is currently BLM. That means it was never homesteaded...........because there was no water available to grow crops. Most river systems in Idaho are already fully developed to store and divert all available water to existing farmlands. There is none available to send to arid BLM grounds, nor do we wish the Feds to sell the Federal land if water were available.

That natural grazing you refer to is cheat grass. It is an annual which germinates in April and dries up and goes to seed in early July in the best of years, often in June. It is of very low actual dry matter (calories), and even lower nutritional value. Though it will sustain a limited number of ungulates for a short duration.

In the desert, without water, it makes zero difference whether you build on soil, or on barren lava rock. Neither will grow a crop.

As to the impact of the wind farm on grazing by domestic animals or wildlife, whatever grass which presently grows in the area will continue to grow around the wind farms.

I dislike looking at wind turbines as much as anybody. And if the powers that be had closed the gates on this nation in 1970 when we achieved zero population growth, we would not need them.

But since the economy of this nation, and the federal government is just a giant ponzi scheme which dies without growth. The feds keep importing immigrants at unsustainable rates. Thus finding new sources of electricity is of paramount importance. The leftists have demonized nukes and coal. Hydro is equated with Satan himself. That only leaves solar and wind for the foreseeable future.

As much as we hate the sight of wind farms, they are an absolute necessity to national security until the politics in this nation gets reversed.

Personally, I think wind farms are a wise choice for lands of limited production. And they fit well with the ideal of multiple use.

If transmission lines must be built, then some environmental groups will likely challenge and shut it down.

Had a potential geo-thermal system in our Alvord Basin shut down over that very issue several years ago.

That white stuff is steam.

I did NOT verify your math, but I will accept it EXACTLY as you stated...

Point being...

In 2022 most people will not... or CANNOT do the hard math... and immediately go to the "emotional" opinion (i.e. "I love Green"... or "I hate Green").

People have been TAUGHT that their emotions are more important than math/economics.

Horse chit in every way...

All of nature and all that is truly real is based on resource/economics FACTS.

"Green math" is really dumb... every time I have dug into the retails/done the math.

BUT people get a warm fuzzy... just like taking a Rona shot/booster to "feel" safe.

That it is, rising from the cooling towers, the low laying dark haze on the horizon is that nifty particulate matter, also known as particle pollution which includes the tiny particles of fly ash and dust that are expelled from coal-burning power plants from sulfur dioxide (SO2), nitrogen oxides (NOx) and ammonia (NH3).

Live about 15 air miles from one.

The Salmon Falls and Lava Ridge projects benefit no one except the politicians that are receiving money for trying to push this through and southern California and Nevada that gets the power generated.
The power doesn't stay in Idaho. Literally it will only create 10s of jobs. It diminishes grazing that already the BLM and Forest Service has been cutting back for years. In turn creating fire fuel in the hot summer months. Try fighting a wild land fire amongst 1000 ft tall pinwheels.
Above someone mentioned cheat grass, yes there is a lot of cheat grass along with other native grasses. Cattle can do very well on cheat grass if grazed at the correct time and it's been proven in it reduces fire fuel load.
With reduced grazing, also reduces the amount of water hauled in by ranchers to water cattle this also reduces water for wild life that uses those tanks. Just because the land isn't turned into usable farm land it doesn't mean it doesn't create income or provide a life for others, wildlife included. The sage grouse being "endangered", follow cattle from allotment to allotment.

There has been a big local push back and voices have been heard. Last Thursday Twin Falls County commissioners opposed the Salmon Falls project. Lincoln County commissioners are expected to do the same.

Federal lands, or Idaho lands?

Those low population communities have small voices when it comes to opposing the country's energy needs.

The environmental groups will stand down being its a Green Energy project.

Opponent will be systematically over ruled, just a predictable, expected bump in the road.

It's BLM lease at their standard per megawatt fees, a portion of which goes to Idaho School system.

Waste lands turned to profitable lands for state and nation.

One well designed nuke could replace thousands of windmills and thousands of miles of roads to build them.

Hardly wasteland.
It's land used by cattle, wildlife and hunters. May not be pretty to most driving through it but it gets used and to local benefit. These two projects lessen the local use and provides energy to liberal wastelands like Southern CA and NV. No thanks.

From what I'm understanding, there are tax credits(very minimal) but no subsidies. I'm thinking the school system isn't going to benefit much.
If any one has some hard numbers please post, I'd like to see them.

Edited to add, LS Energy allegedly has a history of setting up these projects, selling them and the buyers not following through with the BS LS sold the locals.

We've had our fill of lies from the feds on our public lands. When Clinton was president, he wanted to greatly expand the Craters of the Moon Nat. Monument which isn't all that far from the proposed Lava Ridge project. The BLM lands he proposed to add were heavily used by hunters. He promised that hunting would continue to be allowed in the expansion part. He finally suckered Idahoans into it and they added it to the Craters. Within a week, the Nat. Park Svc closed the new addition to hunting. It was all a blatant lie. We did finally get it back but it literally took a special act of congress to do it.

With every tiny detail regarding these projects being posted in numerous locations online, why form an emotionally based opinion from hearsay and rumor?

Do your own research, learn the facts and details.

Little things like this pop right up about these projects.

Idaho Power will purchase the energy under a 20-year power purchase agreement. The company will initially pay $21.75 per megawatt-hour (MWh), which is less than 2.2 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh). The agreement includes the potential for Idaho Power to purchase the facility as well as buy energy from a proposed expansion at a slightly higher price.

The agreement will help to replace energy produced by the North Valmy coal-fired plant in Nevada, where Idaho Power recently agreed to end operations. Once the solar array is built, it will connect to an existing transmission line that currently delivers energy from the North Valmy plant.

Yea but you would not be enriching China by doing that.

Why should we believe a group that does nothing but lie about this so-called "Technology".? .Its simple math Leroy, find out how much each unit costs to construct, its maintenance and its work life. You can then divide that by the number of homes it will power. Even a simpleton like you will find out that the costs are 6x over what they are currently paying for electricity and it is not a constant source of electricity.

I'm right here in the middle of it and the info varies so greatly depending on where it comes from.
But thanks anyway for copy and pasting off of the Google machine with [bleep] I've already read....

Actually that was from the IdahoPower website but whatever...

If it is proposed to be on BLM managed surface, the project would be on a Right of Way, and wouldn’t be sold no matter what the uninformed folks on this board think.

It’ll be tied up and basically not available for public purposes, but it wouldn’t be sold. I don’t like these projects for many, many reasons but this is a misnomer that for whatever reason is widely believed by folks on this board.

Hey...did you guys hear that coal is being phased out?

I know right?!

Anyone that believes those windmills are going to replace anything is dumber than a box of rocks. The only ones who benefited from the windmills above Hagerman were the land owners that let them put those eyesores up.

Good thing you claified....

I did not, but I did hear that Roy died.

Like, OMG!

AC electricity is NOT store able. Period....

Shut yo mouth!

That's not all. Biden is also going to shut down the Permian Basin.

Lots of bright minds working on short and long term energy storage. The Finn's for example, are developing long term energy storage in sand, to carry summer solar into winter months.

The reason this is advancing as quickly as it is, is simply economics. Idaho Power is buying wind at 2.2 c (and selling it to me for a dime, thanks for nothing....). A nuke, you say? Try 7 c for cost. Yeah, I know, it's because of (insert political excuse here), but that's the economic reality. The intermittent nature of wind and solar (and tidal and hydro) is a disadvantage, but the low cost advantage leaves enough room to come up with ways to develop storage methods for that energy. And still be cheaper than coal.


https://www.rechargenews.com/energy...st-sand-based-energy-storage/2-1-1253027

Finnish technology outfit Polar Night Energy and compatriot utility Vatajankoski have switched on what is claimed to be the world’s first commercial sand-based thermal energy storage system, to back-up a local heating network in the west of the Nordic country.

The system set up adjacent to the power plant, which has 100kW heating power and 8MWh capacity, uses renewable energy to stoke up the sand to temperatures of 500-600C, ‘discharging’ to provide heat for the Kankaanpää district.

“The construction of the storage went well, especially considering that the solution is completely new. We managed to get everything in order despite some challenges and a short delay. Now the sand is already hot,” said Polar Night CTO Markku Ylönen, in a LinkedIn post.

“We have already learnt that our system has even more potential than we initially calculated. It’s been a positive surprise.”

“This innovation is a part of the smart and green energy transition. Heat storages can significantly help to increase intermittent renewables in the electrical grid. At the same time, we can prime the waste heat to usable level to heat a city. This is a logical step towards combustion-free heat production.”

Vatajankoski uses the heat from the Polar Night system, based around a steel four metre by seven metre container holdings “hundreds of tonnes” of sand, to prime the waste heat recovered from its data servers, which depending on the season needs to be heated up from 60°C to 75–100°C before being fed into the district heating network.

“Production of renewable energy sources such as wind and solar power is highly volatile, and only partly overlapping with the consumption in time,” said Ylönen.

“As these volatile electricity sources increase rapidly in societies, more and more energy storages are needed. Our technology provides a way to refine cheap and clean surplus electricity to valuable heat in an affordable way to be used when most needed.”

Polar Night currently also has a 3MWh test pilot project in Hiedanranta, Tampere, that is partly-charged up by a small solar array and connected to a local district heating grid to provide heat “for a couple of buildings”.

Sand-based energy storage if one of several long-duration thermal concepts heading for commercialisation, with outfits including Stiesdal Storage Technologies and Siemens Gamesa also advancing

Between 25GW and 35GW of long-duration energy storage (LDES) will be installed globally worldwide by 2025, amounting to about 1TWh and $50bn of investment, according to a report by the recently formed LDES Council.

Wouldn’t all that heat have a significant impact the local ecosystem? Seriously, that’s the first thing I thought of unless I misunderstand the article. Heat is what they are storing correct?

I am not even a layman when it comes to this stuff but it seems to me nuclear is what we ought to be developing and building. Certainly not the damn windmills or solar farms.

Not true.

They are basically heating sand in a silo. Silo is insulated, of course, so no meaningful interaction with the environment.

The Danes are putting a similar system in on their "energy island", called Hot Rocks (cue Stones..... ).


Nukes are not economically viable. Boomers still remember "electricity will be too cheap to meter" promotional bulls#it from the 60's, and think it was true then and still is. But it never was, and never will be, cheap.

https://www.pacificorp.com/transmission/transmission-projects/energy-gateway/gateway-west.html#:~:text=The%20Gateway%20West%20project%20is,of%20two%20major%20line%20segments.

This one is for the power from several wind farms in Wyoming and Idaho now. They have also enhanced transmission lines already in use, upgraded. Many small substations are also built near the wind farms.

If you believe in man caused global climate change nuke power is the best long term answer.

If you don't believe in man caused global climate change nuke power is the best long term answer.

If you want lots of abundant energy to drive the future nuke power is the best long term answer.

What is the land being used for now, grazing?

BLM is Federal public land, managed, at least theoretically, for the benefit of all citizens, not just for those who live close to that land. Lots of Americas want to feel good about renewable energy and wind farms do that for them. Electricity needs to be sent where it is needed as it is produced. If the land is currently leased or permitted for grazing most of it will still be available for that, so BLM could collect both AUM grazing money and windmill money from most of the same acres. Besides, BLM manages around 12M acres in Idaho, so 73K acres is about 6/10 of 1% of that total.

I see

I’m all about cheap, but Morse-so about sustainability, longevity, and minimal Impact.

A guy can dream can’t he?

How so?

Cracking (fission) or smashing together (fusion) atoms is the cheapest, most abundant form of enery in the universe. Stars use Nuke power for a reason.

Carriers and sub the same.

Long term Nuke power is extremely important to provide the power needed for a growing civilization. Things like desalinization only make sense when fed power from atoms.

Shorter term fossil fuel is still the best answer but we should have been building out a nuclear powered infrastructure long ago.

Russian agitprop drove the anti nuclear propaganda of the 70s an 80s.

Huh, and here I thought TMI, Chernobyl and Fu-koshima had something to do with it....

All that said, nukes are the most expensive way to generate power right now. Advanced nuclear comes in at 8 c/kw, and combined solar / storage at a nickel. Solar alone is 3 c and under, wind at 4 c, combined cycle gas at 4 c.

The lowest steady supply generation is geothermal.

Why nukes if they are twice as expensive as standalone solar, and 60% more expensive that solar / storage combined?

(see Table 1b at https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf)

I know, lets build some wind mills in Delaware......

Dick

3 Mile Island from the 70s? Chernobly where the Commies cut every corner? Explain with specificity why our energy policies should be driven by isolated instances multiple decades in the past?

Give the class a run down of what bad happened a Fu-koshima. It shut down like it should when flooded. Don't build any power plants in areas when tsunamis are problemmatic.

France is a great reason for nukes and Germany is a great reason for nukes.

One has them (France) has Nuke power and is pretty immune to Russky energy games and one of them gave up Nuke power (Germany) and is getting bent over by Russky energy games.

The Germans do have lots of pretty windmills for tilting but now are going back to burning the dirtiest brown coal on the planet.

Subsidised wind power costs are not even a real arguement and solar storage simply does not exist in the real world.

But solar does have a tremendously large footprint that can be seen from space.

Wake me up when solar or wind can reliably power a carrier or sub.

And you get extra credit for the Biden Administration EIA cite.

Don't like the numbers?

Show me yours.......

Hot air may sell guns, doesn't sell electricity....

Natural Gas!

Oh...wait. We had to start a land war in Europe instead.


Wind I guess.

And for safety, they will be inaccessible acreage.

Good points.

What is the solution to waste disposal is a safe manner?

One of the latest methods of nuke waste disposal is tying it up in glass. Once that's done, you can break, crush, grind, or whatever and it's still in glass. It can't get out in the environment. Barrels of glass can be stored for decades or sunk in water with no affect whatever. The barrel might rust apart but the glass stays intact.
My nephew did his PhD research on the process. Now it's being used all over.

They build what's most profitable.

Nukes are the lowest cost to operate but the build costs coupled with the end of life shutdown expenses takes all the profit out of owning one.
If Nuke plant owners were on the hook for disposal of their spent fuel rods the first one would have never been built.

Of course the tax payers pick up those costs.

Combined Cycle and renewables are profitable so that's what they build, pretty simple.

Used all over?
Where?

My ex wife was involved in the research and implementation on vitrification. All it does is lock the waste up so it can never be reused again in a breeder cycle. It takes valuable, partially used uranium and makes it unusable for re-breeding. This is a politically driven strategy, because breeding reactors create plutonium, which is a proliferation concern.

Vitrification does nothing to reduce radiation. The only benefit is that during long term storage, it'll keep it from leaching if the containment vessels are breached.

If you can find someone willing to invest the money it takes to design, permit, and bring one online and then wait 25 years for it to start generating power, nukes are the way to go.

Make bullets out of the depleted uranium and send it to Ukraine-along with a Warthog or two. They can properly dispense it to Russia.

I understand how it works, appears better than and idea yet, just didn't know it was actually being put to use anywhere.

I think the idea was first developed in Germany but China has built a large facility for processing it.
Last I read China was able to run their plant 2 days last year.

Vapor created by the process appears to be the demon now.

There's a schit ton of spent rods in the cooling ponds at the Nuke Plant by my house in Crystal River, FL.

There have been two very, very small notices posted about the cooling ponds there losing water but no radiation has been detectable in nearby wells...yet.

Duke Energy is in the process of dismantling that Nuclear Plant now, they built a new Combined Cycle plant to replace it.

When I first started investing in real estate in the area the Nuke was still operating. They mailed me a multi page booklet, there's a picture of the plant on the cover with a target around it.
The cover reads "You're within 50 miles of our plant and there are some things you need to know".

It's basically information regarding risks and questions about ones ability to evacuate rapidly.

I suppose being given the information is some form of liability release for them, didn't get one when they opened their new Gas Plant.

Oh, I wasn't implying that it is being used, just that it's (another) political football.

Some people like to whine about the subsidies for wind or solar, willfully ignoring the big fat pork barrel that is the nuclear industry.

WIPP.

Not sure about this specific project.

You’re absolutely correct though that grazing can occur in a wind farm, and I am sure in many cases do. It all depends on the specific circumstances of the land, the project, competing uses and such. The stips attached to the permit can also lend itself to allowing other uses.

Wyoming Next Gen Nuclear Reactor.




There is a lot of energy left in the current waste stockpiles and the new reactor designs can use the old waste as fuel and burn almost all of it up.

Recycling Nuclear

Good they are experimenting, we'd get nowhere if the didn't.

That Natrium reactor will provide for many jobs for a long, long, long time.

Published May 11, 2016

This summer, if all goes according to plan, the second reactor at Watts Bar Nuclear Power Plant will begin supplying power to the US electrical grid. Construction on the reactor in Spring City, Tennessee, has proceeded in fits and starts since the project began in 1973. It will be the first new nuclear reactor to come online in the US since the first Watts Bar reactor was completed 20 years ago.

The long delay in completing Watts Bar illustrates the challenges of constructing a nuclear reactor in the US. Construction on the project has been held up by public safety concerns, shifting regulatory expectations, fluctuating energy demands, and ballooning costs. The final price for Watts Bar 2 is currently projected to be $4.7 billion, a number which has been revised upward many times during construction.

The feds are kicking in $2 B???

So much for the "federal government should not be favoring renewable energy" mantra.

So for the posters that are so supportive of wind and solar, how close to your home is the nearest solar and/or wind farm? Do the ecological impacts mean nothing? Let alone wind can’t even generate enough energy rebuild themselves lol

So for the posters who say the government shouldn't invest in renewables because that's favoritism, how do you justify investing $2B in a single nuke plant?

And by the way I'm 100 % in support of nuclear power.

How close to your house is the nearest nuke plant by the way?

I don't have a problem with the Fed Gov doing research on energy production.

We are in a Global contest and cheap plentiful energy is important for the future of the USA.

I think we know wind and solar are never going to be able to suppy even a fraction of the energy needed for the future.

Add in that both are a blight on the landscape and support our enemies (buying from ChiComs).

There is a lot you could learn about wind turbines.

This 500 acre solar farm is sandwiched between our old, out of service Nuke Plant and the new Cobined Cycle Gas Plant.
About 15 air miles from me.

Sorta looks like crops growing in orderly rows but they are harvesting electricity.

Why?


Jun 10, 2022
Duke Energy’s Bay Trail Renewable Energy Center, a solar plant in Crystal River capable of producing 74.9 megawatts of energy, officially started activity Friday, June 10.

The site will require minimal staff present due to technology at the plant. Panels are designed to even survive hurricanes, with equipment allowing the panels to become less rigid in wind, lessening damages. 
While active, the site still is in construction and is projected to be fully finished this fall. 

How many of those solar panels say "Made in China" on them?

I've not gone there and looked at the labels.

I did. Wasn't easy.

All of them were made in China.

The Chinese children are a gift from God.

We should import a few thousand and have them build our Nuclear Plants.