I have heard of this happening sometime in the future, looks like the future is here.

https://www.wnd.com/2022/07/california-announces-plan-charge-landowners-water/

They get the government they deserve.

In the west

people/landowners have been kilt over water uses

Very big issue in the west right now

Utah........stop developing properties that we have NO water for

https://www.ksl.com/article/50367806

Fuggin' commie basterds.

They’ll be taxing oxygen next.

When, I, bought my property I got the mineral rights they are mine. Water oil, gas, gravel, etc.
gfy. .gov.

How can they do that if you have mineral or water rights??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we fight a war over excessive taxation without representation?

As if the good folks victimized by their corrupt state government need another reason to pack up and leave.

and personal property rights, among others.

They already want to tax weather, so why not?

Just another program to spread more communist through out the USA.

Pay now or pay later. Or, get smart and figure out how to use the resource more efficiently.

Oh it’s still yours.

Those poor people move east, buy up land and houses at alarming rates, then they feel entitled to having a say in everything, and drive like a-holes. Californians should need approval to move anywhere outside their state. Warnings to their new neighbors are in order.

I think many of us with our own wells have seen this coming. Just glad I be in a very red state.

One of the reddist!

At this point, that seems like satire.

However….

The sad part of this is I have also heard that the stock tanks that catch runoff, at some point in time will also be metered and billed to the owner for what is used. The ones that this will hurt the most are those that use the water for irrigation.

I just wonder what will be the tipping point in all this B.S. that makes people take up arms.

Utah Taxes the Rain Water coming off your roof

Unless you had water rights from way back there are not a lot of Land Owners that have water rights at all in Commyfornia.
All the local Gooberments have purchased (confiscated the rights a 100 years ago) and now they are trying to steel the rights from each other. This has been going on for a long time.

Los Angeles stole the water rights away from the Owen Valley and the Owen Valley is a 100+ miles away
The City of Redlands (close to where I live) stole the water rights from the ranchers in Oak Glen 40 to 50 miles away from that city about 30 years ago. They drove most of the Apple producers to close their Orchards and now they import their apples from out of State with very little grown in the local area.
These Gooberment Jurisdictions are constantly finding new ways to screw the People for Decades

There are a lot of oxygen thieves in the world.

All we need is a strong leader.
People here are waiting for that and when we get one it will be on.

California has been putting meters on windmills for years, There's couple of states that won't let you use rain water or any kind of run off, if a rain drop hits the ground they own it. Rio7

In Idaho, it takes 5 or 6 acre feet per acre to grow crops. More for long season crops like sugar beets, less for short season crops like wheat.

California has a much longer growing season than does Idaho. They often grow two crops per season, where we can only get one.

Without actual data, I might make a guess that California Ag could easily require 10 acre feet per year or more. So, a $100/acre additional tax on ag lands to pump the water under your own land.

It is just a precursor to the day the "Progressives" achieve the power to "nationalize" the farm lands of America and put them into "the collective".

But is it really yours? Skip a few property tax payments and see what happens.

We have plenty of water in Commyfornia for Dust Control on Construction sites most of them use Fire Hydrants This is our Drinking water Not Reclaimed water.
We also have plenty of Water for the Golf Courses They classify them as Agriculture and they get a special reduced cost for their use over the Joe Blow Home Owners.

If you pay property taxes you are just Renting your property from the Gooberment.

Proove me wrong
As Stated above don't pay them and see what happens.

This would never fly in Kentucky either.

Yes we did but it seems that it was so long ago that the king and his men have forgotten what the outcome was.

The time is quickly approaching when we are going to have to remind those bastards yet again.

The liberal thinks that healthcare is an absolute necessity and should be “free”. Water is an essential component for life and the liberal wants to charge you for it. 🙄

I hope that nobody in that sh.ithole state complies…..zero compliance would send a message.

Sounds like a spin off from the Obama years.

Remember when The Democrats tried to pass a bill that all rivers, dry rivers and any area that water ran off was under the control of the government. and I forget how much land from center line or river edges was included, thinking it was about 1/4 mile.

I believe that this was falling under the EPA or BLM.

Perhaps....but the shooting match started when the brits tried to disarm the colonists in Lexington and Concord.

About 10-12 years ago the Dims in Washington state were pushing a bill to put meters on private wells and bill the landowner for their water.
Seems it's just wasn't fair that those on private wells got free water and city folk had to pay for theirs. Fortunately the pushback was massive enough that it went nowhere.

I have friends who farm fish in Kali, and the numbers I am hearing from them are MUCH higher than quoted above -- it seems to depend on the region. One outfit is looking at paying mid-five figures A MONTH to continue operating as they have been.

Something is going to have to give.

This was tried In Seeley Lake, MT some years ago. That city commission was voted out in entirety.

My brother the good democRAT used to live in Coalville Utah. It seems Park City folks who moved in from California were making a lot of demands for services. (It seems Park City went from 20,000 folks to 70,000 folks in just a couple of years) he said something to the effect of "who do they expect to pay for those services". I told him "you". He chose to remain silent to that answer.

Well, when the county seat moved from Coalville to Park City, apparently he saw the light. He and his wife sold their house and 5 acres and moved back to Iowa.

kwg

Will require the assembly of a whole new agency.

Living near headwaters will always trump living in cities dependent upon downstream flows.

We haven't received a letter here yet, and no notice of letters in our local paper yet either.

Going to hit hard out here where we live, everyone is on a well, whether private or community.

At least, as of last time I checked, I can collect any water that falls on a hard roof. As someone else said, once it hits the ground it's no longer mine.

You're painting with a very broad brush there and not thinking very American.

Free movement between States is kinda traditional here. And we don't need permission to do so.

That varies by state and how the water rights laws are written. Water rights lawyers are a branch of law all their own.

California had a chance to recall Newsome and send a message to the other bedwetters.

That chance is gone.

The replies to this thread are interesting to say the least. I live in Colorado and have spent 50 years in the water industry. Because Colorado was "civilized" much later in the US's history than other states, they have laid claim to Colorado's water before Colorado, or its residents could. We are what is known as a water shed state. That is a fancy term for, supplier of water to others. I can't recall the exact figure so do not take the following percentage as fact, but IIRC, 2/3rds of all water that is produced from precipitation in our state must exit our borders. And to top it off, we must provide salt free water to others or pay a fine
. There are so many natural hot springs in the state that produce saline that we are penalized by the people who are using our water. Until last year we could not even put to beneficial use the rainwater that came off our roofs. We "owed" it to downhill states. Because of previous claims to our water, the joke around here is, if your dog gets a drink of water out of a river, there are 4 farmers from other states following him around to make sure they get it back after he is done with it. If we kept all the water in our state that is generated in our state, California, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, Kansas, New Mexico, and Arkansas would dry up and blow away and fail to produce enough food to keep a rabbit alive. Sad but true.

We all make our choices.

We are represented by the officials our neighbors elected. If we got a beef its with them.

Sounds a lot like they are nationalizing and seizing the well you paid for and maintain.

The water history of southern Idaho was somewhat different. The Oregon Trail passed within a few miles of my house. Tens of thousands of immigrants went across Idaho and never looked at the land because it was too dry. The Homestead Act didn't work here. It was designed for dry farming and for those few lucky enough to file claims on land with springs and streams. Around 1900 congress passed a modified homestead act called the Cary Act. Besides the free land like the original act, it also allowed settlers to form water corporations to develop irrigation dams and canals and then sell shares to get the water to the land. It worked and allowed Idaho to develop millions of acres of desert into very productive farms.
Like other western states, water law is everything. It's a specialty field of law and it's what keeps the entire area alive. We had another thread about the dams on the lower Snake River (after it leaves Idaho) blocking the salmon runs. Every drop of the Snake River is appropriated. More land can't be developed because there's no more water. Many farms are pumping ground water but a few have been curtailed because their pumping is slowing the flows from springs where someone else has senior water rights. It's a very complicated mess.

I think when the SHTF this tax/fee scheme is going to fall into 2 distinct categories. I have already received a letter last year telling me to register my wells. But they made the distinction of over a certain volume used, if I recall, it was a huge volume, maybe 650,000 gal per year, 2 ac/ft.?
Now say what you will about what you 'own' on deeded land, but the reality is you cannot separate what you own water wise when an aquifer extends past all property lines. And the same is true of surface water, creeks, rivers etc. The water is generated elsewhere and just passes thru your property. You are entitled to use some of that water certainly, especially if the water right is written into the deed. But out west, water in a creek for instance, is not yours. Now throw into the debate...water use for profit as opposed to water use for domestic/household use. One would think that basic human needs water right will trump water for profit. But we live in a crazy world, so who knows how this will shake out. There is a huge amount of case law dating back to the water wars in eastern Colorado, where wealthy ag conglomerates kept punching big ag wells deeper and deeper depleting the aquifer starving the Jim Conrads and Sam Olsons into bankruptcy. Add to all this, there are active ditches in use in this county that pre-date California joining the Union...how will the courts view that? If I had to guess, the only winners here will be lawyers. As they say, "whisky is fer drinkin', water's fer fightin''.

Back in Sep, of 71, Bob Winkler, the driller told us our water was from the Nebraska Drift, 463 feet deep.

In Idaho, domestic wells don't require you to have water rights. However, a domestic well can't be used to irrigate more than 1/2 acre, a house and garden. There's a farm near me that a developer wants to divide into 240 1-acre plots for housing. Each house will have it's own well. That's a huge amount of water to be pulling out of the ground and could require neighboring homeowners to have to deepen their wells. The plan is being fought and I can't guess how it will shake out. The land has irrigation water rights but often when a farm is subdivided, the developers sell off the water rights and the new home buyers don't get it.

I foreseen this many years ago but never wanted to say it out loud. Never wanted to give anyone the idea.
Although I’m sure liberals and bureaucrats have no doubt already thought of every conceivable way to tax something.


We have very good ground water beneath us in my part of Tn. 300-600 ft of fractured limestone hoods and filters a lot of water.

I think what the article is saying is for those wells that aren’t in a sustainable groundwater area need to self report to the state. For now this is geared towards AG use.

What it’s not saying is everything in a groundwater Management area is already a know well and will be subject to excessive fee’s and oversight. Now the state is announcing they want compliance from outlying well owner that aren’t in the system.

It most definitely will only get worse.

I recently attended a conference on ground water wells and legislation regulating them. A new disturbing issue is poking its head up. The federal government is in control of ALL navigable waters in the US and regulates their use and care. The government stance, which is now in the court systems, is that underground water from well could affect the surface navigable waters and are wanting federal control on most wells. This is quite disturbing and arguments before the supreme court and being prepared.

What you mention about volume might be the reason we haven't received any letters..........yet?

I'm not positive, but I believe our well is registered. I haven't bothered to fact check that. But, as a small domestic well, I doubt even with my gardening I'm going to use enough to cause them to come after me..................yet?

What you say about it being a shared resource is what worries some of us. There's a big AG operation over the ridge from us, thousands of acres under pivots and wheel lines. Some of their water comes from the river, but a big portion is groundwater. My rancher neighbor thinks we're all on the same aquifer and in drought years, like this one, when those folks really have to pump to grow alfalfa the level in our wells get lowered. Likely he's worried about his pivot and wheel line on the one section down the road.. I think he's got water rights on the creek that runs through his property where his house and farm are, but these couple of fields use well water.

Scheidty situation for sure, but there's no doubt in my mind the "city fathers" would love for more folks to move into the area. We lost 10% of the population from 2010 census to the 2020 one and businesses are suffering. But, where the hell are they going to find the water if this drought, that's predicted to get worse by some, continues for another decade or more.

It'll be a big lifestyle change if I have to stop gardening because our well will only support our domestic use. And if it gets really bad it'll mean thousands of $$$ to drill it deeper.

Is it any wonder I'm not a fan of..........................people?

Well, a good portion of them at least.

As flintlocke said................the lawyers will be the winners.

Even the losing lawyers will get paid.

If the govt claims to own your minerals, then it's not a big jump to claim they own all the oil and gas reserves under your private property as well... And just take your royalty checks.

Or the wind or sunshine above it.

They want to come onto your property and turn it into a solar farm, or a wind farm, if you let them get away with this chit, that is next.

Accepting socialism and communism is stupid beyond words.

But.............................it's for the children.....................and the greater good.

Resistance is Futile..................Assimilate!

Deans: I saw the reference to kalifornicationkopia in the link you gave and refused to go to or read the article!
My water is free and I will NEVER pay tax on it - of course I am smart enough to NOT live in kalifornicationkopia.
Sadly, as far as I am concerned, the idiots that live in and run kalifornicationkopia deserve EXACTLY what they are getting!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

If .Gov wants your chit they will take it. Even in Montana.

I live in a long narrow mountain valley, climate and soil conditions make it one of the premiere alfalfa growing regions, but it's all irrigated, pivots and wheel lines. The standard of most farmers here is three cuttings, and enough of a fourth stand to make decent winter pasturage. But last year the California Water Resources Board told them to shut down pumping in mid August because the aquifer was dropping the lowest since monitoring began....basically they would have lost 1/3 of their gross income. But...hay prices shot up, about doubling, so there wasn't a lot of push back, but it's going to happen again this year. I kind of went roundabout with this, but the bottom line is, govt controls the aquifers, done deal.

They already started.

Salish Kootenai Water Compact.

I doubt that would stand up to the inevitable legal challenge.

Apparently, I forgot ......................it's for the Natives.

What I'm told is that they started south and are working north. They are working around Sacramento as of this spring. That said, they already tried to take my friend in Modoc's spring water for "stream flow rights" two years ago. They haven't come after his wells, yet.

Yeah, that spring flow thing is contentious, especially if the spring flow historically made it to the creek/river or other watercourse someone had "rights" to.

I think if I were to go to law school as a younger person now, water rights might be a profitable field to explore.

Just because the water lies under your property, does not mean you automatically own it.

Dutch here is an expert on this issue. as he uses lots of spring water for his operations, and has dealt with varying flow rates.

It has been in the news over the last few years, that the aquifer in the Magic Valley Idaho has been dropping, as large ag producers punch wells for irrigation. But the water rights to those wells are in many cases junior to the guys depending on spring flows where the aquifer resurfaces.

When the guy with senior water rights starts losing his flow. The guy with junior water rights loses his water first.

SE Oregon here and alfalfa growers are following water down on almost an annual basis. Don't buy a pivot without thoroughly checking the well's history. If agr. wants to put down a new well now, they have to plug an old one.

A few primo trout fishing holes have lost their historic spring inputs and dried up. Nearby 1/2 section pivots are likely the culprit.

Yep. The story of the west is all about water rights.

People should stop trying to settle out in the sticks. Gather up in cities.


Sheesh

Hold into the .gov pension

Take a look at their representatives.

That's your answer.

There is no place in Idaho where you can put in an ag or industrial well without buying someone else's water right, first. Water is, as we say, "fully allocated". Irrigation, industry, domestic, stream flow, hydro, native tribes, lots of different water rights.

The Idaho water doctrine is "first in right, first in time". The spring I operate on has one of the oldest rights in Idaho, 1864. No one can, in any way, diminish that spring. If someone in the watershed drills a well, and affects the spring flow, I can make a "call for water", and they will have to shut down. Period, end of story.

There is a stretch around the Twin Falls area that is called the "thousand springs reach", where the chasm created by the flood that drained the ice age inland sea cuts through the lava rock and intersects the Snake River Plain aquifer, and a million gallons of spring flow PER MINUTE comes out of the canyon walls. Trout farms filed for the spring flow rights, and had their operations for half a century and more. Then the droughts started, irrigation practices changed, and farmers up stream (way, way, WAY upstream -- as far as Mud Lake and the Idaho Falls / Blackfoot regions 160 miles away) started putting in BIG wells. Springs started dropping, slowly at first, then faster.

The spring flow was roughly cut in half from the 1967 peak by 2000, and the fish farmers made a call for water. Long story short, the irrigators ended up buying the fish farmer's water rights in a state brokered deal, for roughly $200K per CFS (cubic feet per second, about an acre foot per day). Now the fish farmers are renting back their water right and old facilities, but since they don't own the rights, they can no longer call on water.

The irrigators most certainly paid for water, and a HECK of a lot more than the proposal in Kali.

Interesting topic and some great information. 👍

Up until fairly recently, California groundwater laws have been somewhat archaic and loose. This is mostly because for the last 60-80 years the state’s surface water projects have met a huge part of the demand and groundwater demand hadn’t outstripped its capacity.

Well now things are changing. Not enough new projects to meet the increased demand(environmental, ag, and urban). Not to mention environmentalists are working on taking dams out. Not everywhere in the state is groundwater an issue, but once something gets on the state’s radar it becomes a problem for everyone.

I think there are western states that have some pretty structured water laws because they have needed something in place because of the groundwater demand. If I were to guess, CA could probably adopt some of these and fix what ails it, but instead they’ll reinvent the wheel and fark it all up.

Commiefornia, everything is allowed.

We voted him out and the Voter Fraud flipped for him
You really think there are going to be Honest elections in this entire Country until people Lots of people go to prison over this issue.

Here in Podunk

we are allotted 10K gallons per month of city culanary water.......$18/month

I use 3-4K gallons of the allotted 10K

Outside irrigation water is different

When are Californians going to have enough of this crap and start rising up and just throwing these people out of office... via the 5th floor window, head first??