I refuse to ship anything of value without insurance any more. The question arose today on who is responsible for the insurance and/or claim. I would like to hear some different perspectives and logics.
I am of the opinion that if I sell someone something it is my responsibility to get them what they paid for. I always include the insurance and it is figured into my asking price. I have had one lost package and one heavily damaged package over the years. Because I am of the opinion I didn't deliver what they bought I refunded the money or paid for the repairs and settled (eventually) with UPS.
Others are of the opinion that once they drop the package off they have met their obligations and if the packages comes up missing or damaged the buyer is responsible to settle the claim and because the seller has no control over what happens in shipping they have met their obligation. Lets hear some opinions on the topic.

I provide the insurance and did have to file a claim on a package that was delivered empty. Buyer said it looked like it had been cut open at a post office and goods taken out. There was USPS tape on the box that was not there when I shipped.

Peace of mind to me.

My only insurance is great packing materials, packed accordingly with lots of 3m tape shipped 2-3 day or faster.

If a buyer wants it insured they can pay it.

I've only had one issue with a package of AR500 I sent to a member here. It didn't show so I sent him another set. The missing one showed up and he let me know and we squared up.

Buyer can’t open a claim on a package they didn’t ship, only the seller can do that. I always ship insured with several pictures of the item packed securely and one of the taped up package on the shipping company’s counter with the shipping label applied to show the buyer the condition of the package when it left my possession.

Only ever had to file 2 claims and both were for items insured for over $2000 and got every dime of it due to my thorough pictures and packaging.

Anytime I sell an item I pay shipping and insurance and clearly state it in my ad. If there is a claim issue the claim can only be filed by the shipper.
I have been bit a couple of times by not stating that shipping only applies to the lower 48 and if shipping to Hawaii or Alaska that the shipping may have to be negotiated so that I do not end up eating too much of the cost of shipping.

drover

The person who pays for insurance is the one who gets reimbursed if there is a loss

I've shipped a lot of stuff over the years with my real job, and legally (and depending on the agreement) If you sell it FOB where the buyer is, it's your responsibility. If you sell it where the buyer is responsible for shipping it's on him. You are responsible for what you specify. If you sell it FOB his address or FFL, then it's on your dime regardless. If you sell it from your place and they handle shipping, you should probably quote shipping and ask about insurance. I sold a guy on here a rifle and got insurance. When it got there (I saw the pictures) it looked like some postal worker slammed the door down on the rifle stock and broke it at the grip. Fortunately, like many on here, he was a good guy and had already ordered a custom stock which he wanted on the rifle. He said he knew the post master and would take care of the insurance. Hopefully he got enough to make him whole.

I bet those folks would sit still if Amazon or Cabelas said "Tough, it's your problem." It belongs to me until you take delivery, so it's on me.

Who endeavors to sell schit over the mail to strangers?


I would take up shuffleboard.

Domestic Claims - The Basics - USPS.com

If it's USPS, either sender or recipient can file. At least according to their website.

Thanks all. I appreciate the opinions. To me a deal isn't finished until the buyer got the merchandise they were expecting and it was to their satisfaction.

There’s probably valid points either way but my opinion is that the shipper should insure it given that it’s basically the industry standard. I’ve bought a number of guns from a top 100 Gunbroker seller that expects the buyer to cover insurance. Every sale has been flawless with reasonable rates and great communication so I’ll continue buying from him. IMO it still makes more business sense for the seller to factor in the few bucks cost rather than appear to nickel and dime charging a fee that virtually no one else does.

Depends on the value of the shipped item.
I try not to purchase from other than established businesses.
Primary Arms, PSA, Country Living, etc, etc.
Recently purchased some ammo from a 24CF poster.
I sent USPS money order. Recieved ammo about 4 days later!
Purchase was less that $40, so no major loss.
Thankfully, he kept his word. Good 'nuff!

Thank you. I feel the same way, the insurance protects the SELLER.

I agree with you. Its yours until the new owner recieves it, in the condition stated. The buyer cannot get insurance etc. Its not his until he gets it in his hand. The seller is the person who describes it, packages it and needs to do things right to make sure it arrives undamaged. They are also the one who can buy the insurance. They can pass that cost on to to the buyer, but it is really protecting the seller, because the plays no part in it until he owns it, in his house, undamaged and as described.

That is good to hear. I have always heard that it is nearly impossible to make a claim on the postal insurance.

You are 100% right, but the problem comes when a seller thinks its over when he drops it off at the post office. Some do not package well, or make it really obvious what is being shipped, etc. When the seller thinks its out of his hands at the post office, then he doesnt want to pay for insurance. The guy recieving it cant buy insurance or make a claim because he did not own, package or have the item shipped.

I pay for it when i drop the package off always have.

It protects both parties.

Sometimes it gets used.

Lots of retailers say very clearly that they will not be responsible. I take their word for it and buy insurance for my stuff that would cause me heartache. IMO, it's the buyer's item once the seller has the money. The seller is shipping the buyer's item unless some other agreement was reached such as "to your door". Have surprisingly few problems. If you don't want limited to what's available locally, you roll the dice.

I had a rockwell milling machine on Ebay shipped DHL.
It fell over and broke into pieces half way here.
I had no shipping insurance, so I was out of luck.
I got someone to MIG weld together the pieces.

Seller's responsible to get the buyer their item, period. If the buyer wants insurance, they pay for it, IMHO. Been buying, selling, shipping for 25+ years and have never lost a package yet, knock on wood.

I try my best to package securely, but I've seen some stupid stuff over the years. Just recently had a dipshit ship a Holosun red dot mounted on an aftermarket mount that wouldn't fit back in the factory box with the mount attached loose in a USPS flate rate envelope. The factory box from Holosun is similar to a Pelican case and is bomb proof.

Would've taken two minutes to remove the four mount screws and put the optic inside the case. Instead it bounced around clear across the country banging into the hard plastic case (yes, the case was in the envelope). No bubble wrap, nothing, on the optic.

Had a guy ship a rifle once wrapped in a blanket. That was it. No box. Nothing. Duck taped blanket.

If it's the seller's sole responsibility to get it to the buyer wtf would the buyer ever purchase insurance? If that was the case, the shipper would be buying insurance and passing the cost onto the buyer. To me, that obviously shows the buyer owns the item in transit and takes responsibility, assuming correct labeling and packaging by the seller. Expecting every online seller to self-insure like the big guys is too much to ask. Interesting topic.

I have paid for insurance a few time and its necessary. It's good for expensive packages. mostly when shipping with USPS.

Because that's their choice. Did you read the part about never losing a package? WTF would I pay for it? If something got lost, I'd make it right, but I'm not giving the shipper anymore money than I have to. The odds are in my favor.

If the buyer feels more comfortable having the package insured, they can pay for it.

Smart!

If the package is lost due to no fault of the seller, your premise seems to dictate the it's solely a loss on the seller to remedy, period. If you wish to cover it when you are the seller, so be it. Do you expect the same from others?

Just killing time. No big deal.

It appears that there are 2 very different and distinct schools of thought here. Thank you.

If you bought a $1000 scope from Doug and it was lost, you'd just say "Oh well".

The shipping company said they only paid 10 cents a pound for the used cast iron in my mill.

I am not getting in a legal snit over a few thousand dollars with a big company that has already played that game over and over.

I went through that with Allstate insurance when their drunk driver policy holder totaled my MGA in 1974. They offered pennies on the dollar.
It is not just that they have attorneys on retainer, it is they have professional A hole claims adjusters. In my case i was a phyco black man.

You can win, but they will make you wish you had not.

It's pretty easy to see it's an issue to be considered as a part of the total transaction. It'd be foolhardy to assume anything, especially in a peer to peer transaction.

I ship many knives ,obviously . On my website it clearly states my terms ,that is ,if you want insurance on your shipment ,ask for it ,and there is an extra cost . I state I will reimburse the funds they pay out,when they pay out . And I state it that way because the USPS is notorious for not paying out.
My take on this is ,I own a knife ,you buy it ,now you own it . I hand it to another outfit to ship it . If they screw up,why am I responsible ? Tell me what big firm assumes the responsibility of another firm's negligence ? Sorry I can't do it . Now with all this said I have a very successful delivery rate.

If a business asks if you want to pay extra for insurance, are they implying you're on your own if something goes awry? It's been a while since I've ordered anything from Camera Land but if I remember correctly, I was asked that. I'm not suggesting Camera Land wouldn't make it right if I hadn't.

From an attorney who no longer posts on the fire:



And I did not pay $1k/hour to get that statement.... it was a freebee:)

My only personal experience is with Amazon. They paid, no questions asked. I think maybe Cabela's did as well, but can't remember for sure. My internet search indicates the seller is generally responsible for lost or damaged items.

It is my OPNION that the seller hasn't completed the transaction until it is delivered to the buyer and meets their satisfaction. If I buy a rifle and it has a big gouge in the wood how do I know it happened in transit and that it wasn't there before it was ever boxed up? I find it interesting the differences in perspectives on this.

+1. In other words - the seller.

FWIW, I've sold some items online. I ALWAYS insure the shipment. I may or may not pass this cost on to the shipping charge, depending on the deal. I'd expect to make good on any lost or damaged item. BTW, USPS insurance cost is very high for the amount of coverage it provides. If I were a gambler, I'd probably come out ahead to self insure instead. If I shipped often, I probably would.

Don't waste your money with USPS insurance... BTDT, and NEVER AGAIN...

Buyer pays

I would assume, if seller offered insurance and it was declined by the buyer, then indeed the buyer is on their own. Simple deduction.

One thing is fairly certain, a common carrier doesn't GAF about your one item.

I concur.

Thanks for completing my thought. That's what I meant...seller offers it at buyer's expense, and buyer denies.

Caveat Emptor, don't buy anything from someone who you don't trust.

I charge whatever the actual shipping cost is, including insurance. If the buyer doesn't want insurance I'll ask him/her to put that in an emai or PM. If something is damaged during shipping I'll do everything that I can do to help the buyer, but filing an insurance claim may require a hands on inspection of the damaged item and the original packing, so that is only practical if done at the receiving dealer's end.

It's the seller's job, and risk, ta get it to the buyer.

If the seller decides ta cheap out on the risk.....