After reading the lamentations about kids not learning a trade, I confess my ignorance about trade schools.

What trades do you consider the most useful? What schools have the best bang for the buck for value?

There are community colleges that offer some trade training, but I don't know if those are a good starting point. I've seen ads for auto mechanics, but don't know if they're just a fancy website with little training.

Some of the trades I would consider vital are: Electrician, Welder, Plumber, HVAC, Auto Mechanic, Carpentry, and Mason.


Thoughts?

In the diesel repair field, the one in Wyoming has got a pretty bad rap...the one in Phoenix turns out some 'ready to work' mechanics.

There are some very good trade schools in the Norfolk VA area for welding. I went to Advanced Technology Institute in Virginia Beach, and completed their welding program. I left there with a 6G SMAW certification, as well as all position GTAW and FCAW certs. The knowledge I learned there put me far ahead of other candidates for entry level jobs. It's what scored me my job as a turbine welder in a previous life. No way I would have ended up with the skill set I have now if I didn't first start out at a good trade school.

We have what are called "technical colleges" here. They teach welding, CNC, electricians etc. They turn out some good folks and skilled. I know for a fact they work a lot with various industries in the area to ensure the curriculum is applicable to what they need. For some stuff, still need to go through the union, the shop you work for will send you to school for courses etc.

If you're asking what's a good trade? That's harder to quantify - all have plusses and minuses. Were it me, electrician would be high followed by plumber/pipe fitter. Locally, supply and demand - welders don't make what they might on a pipeline. We have a lot of welders in the area keeps supply even with demand and wages are decent but not "go buy a new diesel dually and 120 acres of land" good. From what I've seen.



When I was hiring diesel techs - we always hired the local kids/schools over that famous one that sounds like an STD. Those guys didn't know much and all thought the only work they'd ever do was trans rebuilds/overhauls and all at 45 an hour etc. They didn't know what they didn't know.

Don’t overlook the Building Trades Unions’ apprenticeship programs.

Good pay, benefits while working and attending night school.

My nephew is in The Plumbers and Steamfitters Instrumentation Program and is doing well. Once he becomes Journeyman status he can take it on the road if he so chooses.

Just a thought.

Another one to check out is the Millwright Building Trades Union.

If your going the diesel route, go with a factory sponsored school IMO. I think that's the best value going if you are paying for school. Deere has a tech program and Cat has Think Big. They are community College based and a lot of dealers will pay around 5K a year toward your student loans when you go to work.

Learning a brands parts and information system is a pretty big deal that probably takes a year to be good at. Dealer specific paperwork is another thing you learn at a sponsored school. If you know these things you are worth more on day one vs someone coming from a genetic school IMO. Butler Cat was starting new techs around $24.00 an hour out of school.

Most of the major brands have something like this


DEERE TECH PROGRAM

CATERPILLAR THINK BIG

Or, you could go in the Air Force as a generator technician

One critically overlooked trade is the machining/manufacturing trade. Students that come from fresh trade schools for manufacturing can't even do the simplest tasks that are asked of them. I place the blame on the schools. the curriculum must be just to broad and they only get a brief exposure to machining specifically.

In most states, Electrician, plumbing, and other building/construction trades your trade school is an apprenticeship. You go to school a few nights a week or one day a week and work/learn on the job the other days of the work week. And you can earn a living while learning a trade. Win/Win... no educational loans to repay forever and make a decent wage once you get even half way through the apprenticeship, not to mention what you make once you get your journeyman card.

For machinists, mechanics, and welders I would definitely consider a good trade school or community college program. These particular trades need additional technical training that these schools give in a very short time due to all the new tech installed in new equipment these days or specific requirements such as welding certifications.

Check your state's apprenticeship division to see how to get on the list. Be aware this isn't a slam dunk, though. Most apprenticeship programs require decent high school transcripts with strong science and math skills along with manual dexterity. A good dose of motivation also helps ...

Sheister your point about no student loans is hard to overlook and hard to overstate the importance of with the Building Trades Local Unions’programs.

My nephew just walked right in, introduced himself and stated his interest. The Instrumentation instructor came out and interviewed him, got him to fill out the necessary paperwork, 25$ application fee for background check, etc.

4 days later he was in night school even though it had already started the previous week. The following week he’s out on the job as a first year Apprentice.

He did say that the night school was strictly run.

After spending 30+ years teaching auto mechanics at the state trade school and high school level, I have some definite opinions about trade education. A lot of the state programs are "last chance education"- - - - -trying to give people some entry level trade skills before they have to go on some sort of welfare program for the rest of their lives. High school- - - -"trade and industrial education"- - - -now known as "STEM" (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Manufacturing) is where the counselors used to shove the special ed kids and others who couldn't handle the "college prep" curriculum. Most of those "counselors" would starve to death if they ever had to leave public education. They have NO skills that qualify them to make a living other than sucking up public dollars.

One of the best auto mechanics schools in the country used to be Nashville Auto-Diesel College. Unfortunately, the third generation of the family that founded the school sold it, and the new owners have pretty much gutted the program and replaced it with a very much inferior one. Wyotech and Universal Tech are absolutely worthless. General Motors, Ford, Toyota and Mercedes have excellent factory-based technician training programs, but they're brand-specific.

Considering we are officially in recession (contrary to morons in DC.) one might want to assess their future choice of trade carefully. Housing markets around the country have peaked and new construction is on the slide as well depending on region. The employee shortage may lesson the impact for a while but I know from the 08/09' collapse the market here in MT. tanked, the only thing saving a lot of local construction companies was the Bakken oil fields boom....that may not be the case this time.

My dad taught auto mechanics in the Boise State vo-tech department for years. They could guarantee any of their graduates a job as they had shops waiting in line to hire them. Then the government got involved. 1st they cut the program from 18 months to 11. There wasn't enough time in 11 months to teach what needed to be taught. Then they started giving preference to prison early releases, welfare recipients, etc., those who were being paid to go to school, or to be baby sat is more accurate. There was no longer room for the students who really wanted to become mechanics. It completely destroyed the program and in just a few years, they couldn't give their graduates away. They didn't want to work and weren't competent to push brooms. Dad was able to retire in the middle of that and he was really glad to get out. He'd been part of building a great program and he was sick to see it destroyed by the feds.

This was quite a few years ago. I don't know if the program still exists and if it does, whether it's improved any.

No way would I be a mechanic again...did that first 15 years of my life. Buy your own tools, just to have a job. Imagine it would probably take $50,000 to get started in tool boxes and quality tools these day? Harbor Freight crap does not cut it for making a living.

Personally, I would give plumbing a long hard look. But if you can't grab a turd in your hand and squeeze the crap out of it, you are not cut out for the job.

Electrician would be my second choice.

Check unto getting an apprenticeship from your local union pipe fitters or electrical unions.

One of the best programs to go into for a tech degree is Instrumentation and Robotics. My FIL ran that program At Idaho State University until he retired a few years ago. My son has doing an internship this summer and has one semester left. Those kids have a 98% placement rate (the 2% was a girl who got pregnant and decided to be a mom). They start at $65k up to $250k if you can land a job at one of the nuclear power plants. Probably $55-$70 per hr is the norm though; not bad for a two year degree.

I been involved with trades education most of my adult life, from my tool and die apprenticeship to my last job as a program director in a technical college. One thing I would strongly suggest is looking at a school/program’s outcomes in terms of where graduates are a couple of years down the road. Talk to employers, not school recruiters. Programs run the gamut from almost criminal flim flam to world class education…sometimes different programs in the same institution.

Some of the most successful people I’ve seen in the construction trades learned as Navy Seabees. A big advantage there is that every Seabee (last I knew) cross-trained in a second trade area.

If I were starting out today, I’d probably pursue the electrical trade. We’re going to be dependent on electricity for a long time.

If you plan to go into any of the construction trades, learn to speak Spanish- - - -you'll be working with laborers that are mostly wetbacks. My grandson spent a few years on a concrete crew that built bridges, retaining walls, etc. and most of his co-workers didn't speak or understand English, or at least they pretended to "no habla Ingles"!

I don't think that's right about STEM.

STEM is where the brightest kids went for my kid's school. It's where future engineers and math kids (prob all quants at IB firms now) focused.

We didn't have that when I was in school - they had small engines and drafting, rest was 100% college prep.

That's my understanding.

Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathmatics unless there’s other acronyms for it.

These Academies are present in the public school systems and have limited enrollments.

Pre college courses offered, mainly.

My grand nephew is in the Electrician's apprentice program in Florida and it is as you describe. He works a full day 5 days/week and then one night per week goes to school. That makes for a long day but if it was all easy everyone would do it.

Inner city high schools with lots of ghetto rats and gangbangers use the STEM programs for a dumping ground, at least in the Nashville Tennessee school system. There are limited enrollment high schools with a lottery system for the future engineers and computer nerds.

Yep.

He winds up with something that has a handle on it, is in demand and no college loan payments to make.

Now that's a genuine jump start on life.

Penn College at Williamsport (home of the Little League Championship game) has a lot of good programs, including four-year. My son took a two-year landscaping program and has done very well.

There will always be demand for good hard working self motivated plumbers, electricians, HVAC mechanics, and auto mechanics. Even in a downturn the ones with the qualifiers I mentioned will be retained while the deadwood will be laid off.
Everyone used to strap on a tool belt and become a carpenter in a recession, but now you won't displace the Mexicans.

Useful and most bang for the buck?

Electrician. You can work while taking classes and there is a a lot of options, whether to go private or work for a company once you're a journey-level electrician. Both of my brothers are electricians and they can work as much as they want on the side along with their full-time jobs.

Next would be plumbing, but new construction would be the best place to land if doing plumbing. You never know when the construction market might take a hit also.

All that said, I went the 2 yr college AAS deal for welding and it's been a good career for me. The welding education was absolutely crucial to getting me started. I've worked with many guys over the years that went to the school of hard knocks and glad I didn't go that route.

They had a good reputation when I was a kid. Damn expensive though.




I went to a university that had a strong vo tech core.

It was pretty cheap....you got an education in other things besides diesel and you could work all 4 years.


At the time you had a guaranteed job upon graduation.

Electrician, plumber, HVAC in that order. Would be inquiring about apprenticeships locally and seeing what they want you to do. Many will send you to school one day a week while they work you the other four days. Wouldn't go seeking my own trade school education w/o guidance from them first.

Personally, wouldn't go the welding or machining route unless you can go the custom fab route. Production welding and machining will make you a living, but it will suck and you won't be making electrician/plumber/HVAC money in my locale. Education - find a local Tech School, certainly wouldn't relocate for one. Better yet would be find a job with OJT that will send you out for classes or reimburse a percentage.

Want to be on the road and put up in half assed hotels April-November? Framing, commercial roofing, and concrete is for you! No education required, just clean piss day 1 (doesn't even need to be yours!).

I'd leave residential roofing alone unless I was running the show, then I'd hire Mexicans.

TSTI "Texas State Technical Institute" in Waco, TX was, at one time, one of the top trade schools in the U.S.

Haven't checked on them in several years.
Hell, I'm 72 years old! Too damned late for me to go to a trade school! 🤪

HVAC is a great place to start.
Big demand , learn for real on the bosses dime.

Get your stupid mistakes out on his jobs.
Side work, then on your own.

Refrigeration/heating, with a bunch of plumbing and electrical
thrown in. A bit of construction on some jobs too.

If you take that self employed step, you won't be a one trick pony.

Not many ( if any) trade schools are here.

Most junior colleges have trades though.


Usually a school will offer most routes, but will specialize in one or two.

Machine, welding , electrical, lineman, , machnical..... etc.


The best instructors come from the field. The book taught life long educators... meh...

That's what I did. Started out as a commercial construction laborer, ended up running the Facilities Maintenance Dept. for the second largest city in NV. Worked hard, loyal to my employers, never stopped learning new things, not afraid of responsibility. Attitude has much to do with how far you go. I didn't have a college degree but I was promoted over many who did.

Check with your local trade union and apply for the apprenticeships

You are right regarding production work, but repair work pays hand over fist for the most part. Not talking welding mufflers or whatever, I mean real repair work. I relocated because of the quality and thoroughness of the education, and then went back home. Ended up working on $100,000,000 rotors and casings three months after completing trade school. YMMV but seeking out quality education always pays off if you utilize it correctly and take full advantage of your time spent learning.

If I was starting over it would be in the lineman trade. Followed by the robotics tech or electronics or electrical fields

My 31 yo nephew went to the oil patch right out of HS as a laborer. He’s a driller now and makes Big Bucks working 21 days on and 21 days off. Duck hunts a lot.

Several years ago there was a glut of diesel mechanic program graduates with poor job opportunities and a ton of debt from their for-profit schools. My impression was it was a similar situation for auto mechanics. Not sure what the current state of affairs is, but 20 years or so ago it sounded like a bad situation.

I'm guessing like a lot of things choosing a trade should take into account a person's attributes and interests, with some trades a better match for an individual than others.

For example, I'm not sure a person allergic to numbers with no attention to detail would be a good match for the machinist trade. Lots of things that might not be as obvious as someone with a fear of heights not being a good match for a job replacing light bulbs on top of towers.

If you can get lucky enough this is were you need to be looking.
You know the saying
Jack of all Trades master on none.

Well I have worked with several Millwright crews.
They are the Jack of all Trades Masters of all.

All the crews I have worked with have been able to do just abut everything all in one Trade.
Electrical ,Mechanical ,Welding ,Machining, Plumbing , Framing you name it and they could do it.

This Trade is not for dummy's. If you have a brain and can use it with Drive you might be able to keep up with them.

Gen tech ain't no joke. I ran a ground support shop for an airline. Most techs do not know GPU's. I hired an air force guy who worked on them in the service. Best damn money spent. Although, as a Marine the military jokes were constant

Thaddeus Stevens Trade School, Lancaster Pennsylvania

Here in N.C. also.
And I believe STEM = Science, Engineering, Technology, and MATH.

If a person wants to be a welder, enlisting in the Navy and going through their welding program would be a great way to learn a trade. Their welding school ain't no joke!
Follow that up with dive school and you would have endless job possibilities.

Got a buddy who hired out as a mechanic in a dealership. He has a real knack for Cummins diesels.
Dodge dealerships would send him to schools.
Super nice guy and an absolute genius when dealing Cummins motors.
1) when working on his own, DO NOT be in a hurry! Took him forever. He wasn't slow, just easily distracted.
2) he was a "wheeler-dealer"! Made boatloads of money, but never had 2 dimes to rub together

Last time I heard from him, he was teaching at a local trade school. That was a couple of years ago.

Learn to bid electrical jobs and you can do very well.
To be any kind of contractor, you gotta have and keep your wits about you!
Druggies, alcoholics and spendthrifts need not apply.

Mom was certain I was going there.
At that time, you pretty much had to have been at least a half orphan.
I was.

Without telling me, she scheduled an interview and enrollment
thing. Loaded me up one morning and drove me there, not telling me
what it was about untill we got there. Then, the big pressure BS.

Got accepted.

Not a chance in Hell it was going to happen after the crap she pulled though. Good intentions, rotten execution.

Regardless of what one wishes to be when they grow up, any trade skill picked up will benefit one in the future. I am now in the composites trade , learning OTJ and basically training myself . The composites industry is so huge, I had no idea! I am not a youngster anymore, but I have outworked all the kids and some knucklehead veterans (milking the system). Hard to find good help these days, but it is cool to still get excited about learning a new skill at my age!

10 years ago.........before our wad of a gubner effectively killed the gas and oil patch........an 18 year old kid that came outta the vo-tech at high school could graduate into a FINE living wage welding pipeline. That was then...........

My kid came out of his vo-tech welding program as one of the top 3 welders to go through the school in its 45 year history. He tossed the welder and went to SLTC (Southeast Lineman Training School) in northern Georgia. Did a 15 week program and came home to a job. Now.........one month before he turns 25........he's an Apprentice 4 union lineman and will make journeyman sometime between now and March. He got married last month and moved into a newly constructed 2500 sq, ft home. Drives a GMC Denali 3500 crew Duramax. So he's doin' alright on his 15 week investment.

If i was going into a trade, it would be more modern and go after a 5 Axis CNC programmer. Couple that with training as an operator if you want (doesn’t take much to align a part and push a button though).

I went to Carver Career and Technical Education Center in High School, 2 years worth, 1080 hours. Electricity was the field of study. Ended up going to WV Tech and graduating as an EE. It’s been a good ride the last 36 years.

Perry Technical Institute in Yakina Washington has a very good 2 year instrumentaion technician program that is very well respected by industries all over the world.
Beginning salaries of graduates probably average $60-70k per year and can easily rise to over $100k with 5 or so years experience.

Union trade schools are the best if one can get in, did a 5 year apprenticeship

I retired from the electric & gas utility business 3 years ago and our company was hiring apprentice linemen from the local tech school. I heard there's also an 18 week school in Georgia for linemen. They get their foot in the door in the utility business and within a few years they're earning over $200K per year with overtime.

The Derek Zoolander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too

Tulsa Welding School. Several locations, Tulsa, Houston, and Jacksonville.

It boils down to pay.
Pure and simple.
Get some young guy can't indicate a Bridgeport vice straight or square up a block of steel....
It's because you're getting exactly what you pay for in machine shop instructor....


dave

We had guys who did that, and couldn't weld for schitt. I have no idea what the Navy teaches their welders, but every Navy welder I've ever come into contact with has been a terrible welder. Also, it seems like the military hires contractors to do all of the serious work, and not small and fast repairs. I've worked at Aberdeen Proving Grounds and at NSF Dahlgren, and all of the welders and machinists were civilians. I want to add that I am not King of the Welders by any stretch of the imagination, but I have been around long enough to know what a good welder (weldor) looks like. Most of the Union welders I've met could weld a diiiikc to a snowman. I have absolutely no idea what a Union welding program looks like, but it must be pretty great because those dudes are no joke. And their pay is no joke too.

Again
You get what you pay for.
Assclown wages.
Give assclown results.

dave

My #1 grandson went through TSTC in Waco for welding. It's what he always wanted to do and he's good at it. He worked in Pecos/Midland oil and gas pipeline work for 6 months before biden destroyed the industry. He's doing good doing fabrication welding. Works for a RR support outfit and still making good money. One of my son's former students went through TSTC diesel mechanic school and put in his own shop. Making big money now.
It's what you make of it. All any school can do is give you a starting point and enough knowledge to get you started. It's up to you to grow your education.
My BIL who sadly is dead now was in the Navy for eight years during Korea. He was a Machinist/Millwright. He quit the Navy because they changed and were too much spit and polish. The guy was phenomenal. He could take apart any motor and fix it, put it back together better than it was. He was a great machinist. He took with him a mountain of knowledge.

Cheap labor ain't skilled.

Skilled labor ain't cheap.

So true. Even the best schools can't make a kid show up or apply themselves. You get out of it what you put in. A work ethic, attention to detail and the desire to succeed can't be taught if the kid doesn't really want to buy in. Many think they work hard and want it, but in reality they are just going through the motions.

You have to be careful with Unions. My daughter was talked into joining the SMART Union. Her apprenticeship was for sheet metal/HVAC. Her licenses would be held for 10 years from date of hire before she could move away from the Union. Her apprentice program projected a five year average to Journeyman.

I'm in the Union because we are closed shop on the railroad. I tried to warn her about furlough with unions. She said the "Union" promised to keep her busy. She started in the Union in June 2021, started her weekend VoTech school in September, she was furloghed in October. Also if she was furloughed school was stopped for apprentices who weren't working.

So she went to work at a Target warehouse as an order picker for $20 an hour through Christmas. Found a non union shop to hire her in HVAC for $27 an hour, and filed paperwork to terminate her Union membership and had to pay like $500 for reimbursement to the trade school. The Union called her mid March to offer her back in because they had work for her again, but this time she wasn't interested.

My daughter will turn 20 in January and is on a trajectory to earn with overtime $80K this year with health benifits and a 401K, and living on her own renting a house. Now if I can just keep her from adopting another dog (2 German Sheppards already), I think she'll do alright! She's extremly hard working, and I couldn't be more proud.

Here is a couple of TicTok videos she has posted about her work.

Big HVAC unit!

I love my work.

Culinary School.

Then go to work and place you want to live>>>>>>>>>>>

Another good one is the Apprentice School at Newport News Shipbuilding (I won’t mention Ingalls).

You’ll get out of it what you put in it. I can say one of the past presidents of the yard was an apprentice school graduate, maybe more.