Here are some pictures of a cute little guy who has been hanging around for a couple of weeks. He is mule deer and whitetail cross, I see them around here from time to time but this one is cuter than most, check out the size of his ears - they are huge in comparison to his head. Thinking maybe I should call him Dumbo

Definitely some teepee-creepin' going on there.

Love it, thanks for the pics.

Great photos

I wonder which type of tag a hunter would need?

Drover: Very interesting!
Thank you for sharing.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I see no hint of whitetail there. What am I missing?

I'm always extremely reluctant to buy into deer that people call cross bred. 🤔

Those are big ears. Looks like a car with the doors open.

🤣🤣🤣🤣👍👍👍👍👍

I had the same reluctance - until I killed one and wondered what might happen because I had a Mule Deer tag and the Coues influence was obvious. Happens in AZ sometimes.

And there are arbitrary lines in places, like the one in WA, where one side determines blacktail, the other mule deer. As if they never cross to the other side. And get up to shenanigans.

Yup - benchlegs.

That’s pretty cool.

I don’t see whitetail either.
What makes it a cross?

Just looks like a mule deer to me.

But I'm no expert.

I took this one north of Brackettville Texas.

They had started a management program the year I got on the lease. Rules were that if it was 5+ years old and no brow tines it was a cull.

They would not call this a cull.


I've long thought that this might be a cross.

What do you guys think?









Quien Sabe,

GWB

"What do you guys think?"

Weirdo?

If some folks who have questions, now that it's 2022, maybe they could get some genetic testing done?

We have quite a few of them 5-6miles east of me.

My BIL killed on outside of Glenwood Springs, CO several years ago, it had a whitetail rack with no bifurcation to the antler tines. It had the ears and tail of a muley.

Call me Shirley...I mean skeptical.

geedubya;
Good afternoon my friend, I hope that the day's being good to you down in Texas and you and your fine family are well.

Since you asked what we think that nice buck might be, here's my thoughts on it.

Up here we've got both mulies and whitetails, the species sometimes overlapping and sometimes sticking in some places more than others.

For example we'll see whitetails within a mile of our place reasonably often, within 2 miles regularly, but have only seen them in the yard twice in 30 years. Mulies we'll see usually weekly and now that it's hot out and we keep water pans filled for them, they're around daily. I've got a gimped doe bedded 20' from the front door in the shade as I type and there was a pair of spikes bedded underneath the deck this morning.

Here's what our mulie ear spread looks like when they're down and totally relaxed.



When I was initially discussing this with John Barsness back in '08 when our youngest shot this buck, he commented something to the effect that this was the widest ear spread he'd seen this far north and that it must get fairly hot here. It was something like that flavor anyways GW.

Then we can see that our "average mulie buck" up here would have more ear spread/bigger ears than your buck does. Seeing as it's nice and warm down in Texas, I'd guess that the "average mulie ears" are fairly big down there as well?

Brow tines sometimes come into the discussion, but in my experience they're also both genetic and regional. For instance in our valley it's an odd thing to kill a mulie on the west side and into the next valley - the Similkameen - that will have much of anything for brow tines. To the east of us however and into the Kettle and Christian valleys, about half or perhaps more of the mulie bucks will have brow tines.

The yard mulie bucks are typical "east side" mulies that are about 50/50 brow tines or not.

Way back in the day, the only buck I saw which I thought might be a cross was to the east in lower part of the Kettle/Christian confluence. It was a spike for antlers, but had a bit of a blocky face for a whitetail. It's tail was slightly short for a whitetail but far too long for a mulie, however there was a few wisps of black hair on it, which I've not seen on any other whitetail bucks I've shot over the years.

The ears were perhaps a wee bit big for a whitetail, but it was the tail which we thought was the oddest bit about it.

It had been shot in a whitetail buck only season and I'd have shot it and tagged it as that seeing it only in the field for sure.

What it truly was of course I can't say, but that's the only one I've personally seen in the flesh that I thought might be a cross.

If you can recall the tail on your buck in the photo, that may or may not tell "the tale of the tail", you know?

All the best.

Dwayne

Muley ears & Muley rack ='s Muley !

Its a friggin mule deer. Antlers, ears and most especially a whitish butt with a white rope-like, black tipped tail spells 100% mule deer.

Looks like a damn mule deer from those photos. Got anything more convincing?

No recollection on the tail as that was 20 years ago, before digital cameras, and I slept last night.

What made me curious is that white-tail deer typically have brow tines (eye-guards) and for the most part don not have bifurcated main beams.

ya!

GWB

When it moves fast does it run or stot?

I am only 300 yards from the Salmon river which has lots of whitetail cover and lots of whitetail as a result. But my place has lots of mule deer on it and occassionaly a whitetail come up this far from the river bottom. I have deer on the place year round and am familiar with the differences between whitetail and mule deer and this little guy is different from our usual mule deer. If I could get a good video of him it may be more clear as to why I am referring to him as a cross.

Anyway he is my deer and I can call him anything I want -


https://www.themeateater.com/conser...ten-do-whitetail-and-mule-deer-hybridize

Hybrids, as you would expect, often look like a combination of whitetail and mule deer. But sometimes it’s hard to tell whether you’re looking at a strange whitey or muley, or if you’ve actually got a hybrid. Even though the species have very different tails, antlers, ears, and coats, there’s so much natural variation at play that many of these characteristics aren’t useful for identifying crossbreeds. For example, if you see a whitetail deer with an unexpected fork in their antlers, it’s mighty hard to tell based on antler characteristics alone whether you’re just looking at a whitetail with a nontypical rack or a hybrid.

I know a whitetail when I see one. "Your" deer has nothing that indicates any whitetail genes are present, at all.

Fact. Sorry.

That sure is a mule deer tail it's sporting. That's a mule deer not a whitetail.

They will and do crossbreed, they are unable to reproduce the same hybrid species...sterile...this from my RP-biologist friend who is a Mule deer specialist. Otherwise we would have a separate species of hybrids.

I don't see the Whitetail in that deer either.

Small antelope crossed with an elk.
Antelelk.

It could be a cross I guess but it sure looks pureblood Mulie to me. The ears, butt, tail and everything else are indicative of mule deer. The antlers on younger mule deer look just like that too. Most crosses don’t have whitetail antlers/mule deer body, etc. like people generally think.

I think the best way to tell is the location of the metatarsal (sp?) glands on the hind legs.

Yes they can cross,but it doesn't happen too often.In the western part of South Texas it's really desert type country.The whitetail deer are among the largest of the state.There are no mule deer in that area.The farther north and west of the South Texas brush country,you start getting into a mix of whitetail and mule deer.One thing I've notice about the deer in the western part of South Texas is they carry an unusually trait.They commonly have a darker or black tipped tail like the one pictured in the article below.Maybe they have cross genetics that make them carry that trait,or maybe they are just one of the many recognized sub-species.Whatever it is,it happened many years ago and the percentage of mule deer genes would be nearly none existent.Most people will find this hard to believe,but South Texas wasn't always the vast brush country it is today.When cattle were brought in from Mexico in the 1800's they brought the brush seeds with them in their bellies.This now brush country really didn't have many deer back then because it was once a vast grassland and desert.There may have been mule deer then in the western part of South Texas and maybe they could have crossed with the few whitetail that were around.As the brush thrived and grew taller it created great habitat for whitetail,not so much for mule deer.I do know the last known pronghorn antelope was killed on the King Ranch in the late 1950's or very early 1960's.It was the last one,so no chance to reproduce,so it was killed.Just shows how habitats can change over the years.

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...-unique-tail-of-whitetails-and-mule-deer

Here is a picture of a buck's tail from far west South Texas near Eagle Pass.Notice the black tipped tail

Dang that's a lot of antler for an 80 pound deer.

Plenty of Blacktail/Muley crosses in the lower Sierra Nevada.
I've shot Muleys and Blacktail. The crosses look exactly how you'd think. I thought it was pretty common knowledge that this happens.

Looks all mule deer to me.

That buck's ear tag got ripped out of his right ear.

TPWD biologists say the color characteristics of mule/WT crosses are pretty unreliable.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/land/habitats/trans_pecos/big_game/wtd/index.phtml

Thanks for that article rockin'. Just what I was looking for but couldn't find. You are the googlefu master!

That's a fairly significant hybridization percentage, I'd say.

This is a mulie/whitetail cross I took in CO years ago:


When I spotted this deer it was with a couple mulie does and when they began running across a wheatfield it had a really goofy gait. It wasn't stotting like a mule deer and it wasn't running like a whitetail but sort of a combo of the 2. I was hunting meat and dropped him and when I field dressed him he had a whitetail looking tail but it was only about 3 inches long and skinny like a mule deer. The antlers were funny too with a small 3 point antler on one side with a mulie configuration and an antler on the other side that also had 3 small (tiny actually) points but they all came off one beam like a whitetail.

I took the deer to the CO DOW office in Brush CO and they took a tissue sample and after a couple of months contacted me and said it was a hybrid cross. Only one I ever saw. Since the rack was small I tossed it in the field. Kind of wish I'd kept it.

Looks like a muley tail. What leads one to surmise it's a cross?

Color variations do occur. The pic below is a yearling muley for sure and a product of a twin birthing. Nearest blacktails are about 150 miles away. Not the typical mule deer tail though.


Same buck the year before as a fawn with his sister, who was melanistic.


Their mom was a typically patterned muley and is to the far left below.


Can't make any claims as to who their father/s might have been although Cookie caught up with this guy about 25 miles away.


This fellow from a prior year was also a little strange. Had a black stripe from nose all the way down his back to the tip of his tail, but was muley all the way.


Cookie found him across 4 seasons but his existence is now uncertain.

Despite antler configuration, the below is also a solid mule deer trailing a doe through our back yard.


Takes a serious examination to definitively determine heritage. We do have some whitetails in northeast and western Oregon and a few along the Columbia River.

Once listened to a Geist presentation on deer evolution. As to gait when fleeing from danger, tongue in cheek he said mulie/whitetail crosses were totaly confused and just stood around.

We see both species fenced in on Montana's Bison Range, but haven't noted any obvious cross overs.

I don't see anything whitetail in this head. I'd like to see the rump and tail.

Other than the antlers, it looks like a typical whitetail head to me.
White circles around the eyes. White at the muzzle. No MD ears. Not a MD head, but the antlers branched as they are, and brow tines say MD.

rockinbbar;
Good afternoon to you my cyber friend, I trust the Friday was a good end of the week for you.

While I know that folks like JGRaider has put up photos of Texas mulies, they've had such lovely wide antlers that I wasn't able to wrap my head around how wide the ears were.

That's the rationale behind my putting up the photo of the Okanagan mulie with the 26" ear spread and comparing it to GW's Texas buck. I'd personally have guessed that Texas mulies "should" have ears at least as big as ours - again because of the heat - but I'm not really seeing that in the photo of GW's mystery buck.

We're headed up shortly to see what we can see for California Bighorn rams as a good buddy was drawn for one of two almost unobtanium ram tags for the mountain behind our house. Season starts Sept 01st so he's hoping we can see some rams tonight and so am I of course.

All the best to you all this weekend.

Dwayne

Shoot it and eat it, then get back to us. You'll know then.

Just looks like a summer phase muley to me.

Kent

I have hunted Mulies my whole life. But had never seen a Whitetail outside the pages of Field and Stream. I knew they ranged into some of our "play" areas, but had not happened upon them.

Then a few years ago we were camping near Deadwood Res, when a doe ran from the waters edge and down the road in front of the truck.

I told the kids to check out the Whitetail with its flag waving over its butt. Then it started stotting just like any mule deer I ever saw.

I assume it was a hybrid.

It occurs occasionally when Whitetail bucks breed Mule Deer does. They Whitetail bucks are more aggressive during the rut, and will run off Mulie bucks.

I think this whitetail had mule deer characteristics

I should have kept the tail off this deer. It was black tipped but wide like a whitetail and not a rope like the typical mule deer tail.

Hello Dwayne, I loved the pic of you measuring the ear width of that muley buck. I think I've killed almost 50 muleys from here in W TX, Trans Pecos, TX Panhandle, and E NM. Biggest bodied bucks are here in West TX in the sandhills regions, and a big mature buck here will be right at 25". There are virtually no whitetails here except for the rare straggler. Hope that helps some.

I've hunted lots of areas in Texas where whitetails and mule deer coexist though. I'm told by biologists that the only way to know is like Mac said.....tissue samples, hair samples, etc. Another thing to look at is the size of the tarsal glands supposedly, but I don't know squat about that. I've seen a few that looked odd to me but can't personally say I've ever handled a dead one. I do know that antler configuration is a poor indicator generally. This is a buck we found dead in a plum thicket several years ago that was 100% verified as a 194" whitetail. In looking at only his antler cofig one would swear this was a big old muley buck.....

Minute,

If I'd seen those any where near the Cascades, I'd have called them Benchlegs. Interesting.

https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_other/rmrs_2012_heffelfinger_j001.pdf

I’ve never seen any crossbreeds in Tenn

But I could use this thread to post 1000% pure whitetail buck pics just be ungermane to the topic. Like some old fart that’s only killed one deer in their whole life. lol

I'm thinking some White Tail doe got a look at those big muley horns on some buck and got all warm for some strange.

Those whitetail whores always pretend to play hard to get.

Run 400 mph for 3 days

That looks 100% like a whitetail rack to me.

Wow !!!

Up here on southern Vancouver Island we have a mix of Black tail and Fallow deer, the Fallow deer were brought in over a hundred years ago on to a small private island 6 to 800 yards off our southeaster coast. over time the fallow deer swam across the channel and interbread with our Black tail.
We end up with color variations and antler anomilies, fallow deer have a narrow palm type antler

Last Buck my father killed here in STX field dressed at 210 lb

Dwayne,

Yessir! You ought to see the jackrabbits ears out in west Texas!

Good luck to you and your buddy on your ram venture!

The only crosses I have seen in person are Mule/Coues, so no experience here. But, I do agree with Barry's assessment.

that definitely could be a cross. Looks like a whitetail cape with a mulie'ish rack. Splits and no brows.

The OP is dreaming though, straight up young mulie.

Id say 100% Whitetail.
Look at those ears and cape.

That be a mule deer.

I don't disagree, but that's a weird rack for a whitetail.

OP needs to look at more deer. Muley all the way.

Prolly gets FM.




GR

Same here. I've seen a couple verifiable crosses, and he doesnt look like one of them.

. Some don’t seem to be racist as for pussy. Never saw offspring

Hybrid threads are freaking hilarious...

I shot this one last fall where whitetails and muleys run.He was running with some muley does. I didn't pay much attention to his tails, but his antlers, what there was, sure looked like a cross. The off side was smaller yet.

CPW claims the off spring of crossed whitetail/muley will look pretty close to the one that bred it it , That is if a crossed doe is bred to a whitetail buck the offspring will look like whitetail .If to a muley buck, it will look like a muley.

Yep, they're right up there with the infamous black cougar threads.

Not doubting some cross-breeding can occur on a rare occasion, but every time somebody kills or sees a whitetail with forked G-2 it becomes a cross. Every 1.5 to 2.5 yo muley buck seen or killed without a forked G-2 is a whitetail/muley cross.

This 👆 x 100!!!!

Some years back, Montana did a study on mule, whitetail crosses. They were noting the expansion of whitetail. Maybe the article could be found, in Montana fish and wildlife files. It will answer lots of questions. Where I live the mule deer, blacktail crosses are common. The trophy books don't allow blacktail from my county. Step across the line the mulie becomes a blacktail, for tagging purposes!

It is more than a rare occasion where whitetails and muley both live. About 5 miles east of me is big basin.Water and brushy draws on the bottom with a lot of open country on the sides. Both live there. CPW has taken quite a few samples and confirmed the crosses as this ranch use to be in the RFW program and kills were recorded.

East of I-25 there are lot of whitetail only tags given out. The whitetail bucks are more aggressive than the muleys and more territorial. They drive the muley bucks off and will breed with any deer in estrus. CPW wants to stop them from moving further west into more muley favored country.

I have both here on my place. Mostly muleys, but come the rut, the muleys are chasing the few whitetail does around as much a the muley does. I don't see many whitetail bucks here though.