On the way into work, I stopped at a red light. The flashes of the red light cameras were going nuts, but the only people going through the intersection had a green light.
If those drivers get a ticket in the mail, how can they fight it and prove they had the green light?
Approaching a red light in El Paso one night... Hardly anyone out driving. Light turned red and kinda surprised me, but I hit the brakes and stopped before entering the intersection.
That camera flashed a few times and I just grinned. I was the only one at the intersection. I took a photo with my cell camera just in case I got a ticket in the mail, to show I didn't run the red light...
I got two speeding tickets from a camera speed trap in Bluff City TN and never paid either one of them. I received 2-3 followup notices but ditched those as well. Nothing happened.
It's been proven that many towns installed the cameras and at the same shortened the time of the yellow light. It's nothing more than a way to generate revenue.
I have never paid a red light ticket. If they send a ticket in the mail I throw it in the trash.
Originally Posted by ro1459
I did the same with the one I got and I never heard another word.
What form did the letter take? Did it show some irrefutable evidence that the light was red when you went through the intersection, or did it just say, "here's a picture of you in your car."?
I have never paid a red light ticket. If they send a ticket in the mail I throw it in the trash.
Then there is a bench warrant out for your arrest most likely. It will come into play if you ever get stopped for a moving violation, when you go to renew your license (denied until you go to court and clear that up), or have any other permitting or licensure with the city, County, state that issued the violation. If you can say you've been doing this for 40 years and nothing happened, I don't suggest others follow you lead.
Originally Posted by BuckHaggard
I got two speeding tickets from a camera speed trap in Bluff City TN and never paid either one of them. I received 2-3 followup notices but ditched those as well. Nothing happened.
Because you are out of state. Should you ever in the future get stopped in Bluff City TN (or anywhere in that same county), they probably have a bench warrant out for you and would take you in.
A bench warrant will make it difficult to travel out of the country.
Then you have some countries will not let you in because you have an outstanding warrant.
Then there is the initial fine and all the add on's when you finally decide pay. You know when you need to renew your drivers license or try to obtain new tags for your vehicle.
In Colorado they’ll send you a letter in the mail; throw it away. Then they’ll send you a second, more threatening letter in the mail; throw it away. Then they’ll eventually send you a third, even more threatening letter in the mail; throw it away. Do not correspond with them in any way regarding this matter. If you don’t get served personally (don’t answer a knock on your door) or sent legal notice by certified mail (do not sign for any certified mail), then it all goes away after 90 days from the date of the ‘violation’. Period. No “bench warrants” or any other BS. No points on your drivers license, no increase in your insurance premiums, no nuthin’. It’s not even reported to the DMV.
It’s nothing more than a money grab by the local municipality. Phuuk em’.
In Illinois you get a link to the video when you get the ticket. The one my wife got clearly showed her entering and going through the intersection after the light had turned red.
When Tucson had red light cameras the ticket was sent by mail with instructions to log onto a website to see what it was about. If you logged on that website, they had proof you received the ticket. If you didn't log on you could claim you never received it. The tickets were sent by USPS and not registered or signature required. I think most people just threw them away.
You need to read what the tickets say. Mostly they are administrative tickets offering civil penalties. That is to say, if you live in that county or city, you won’t be able to renew your tags if you don’t pay. If you don’t live there, put it in the trash.
That’s the way they were in Texas before they were outlawed. My father-in-law and I both got one for running a red light on the same day in Dibol. Neither one of us even remembered coming close to running the one red light in Dibol. He paid his. I threw mine in the trash. Ten or twelve years later, I still get occasional letters from some debt collection law firm in San Antonio warning me of dire consequences if I don’t pay.
It's been proven that many towns installed the cameras and at the same shortened the time of the yellow light. It's nothing more than a way to generate revenue.
I kind of doubt this. No professional traffic engineer would ever do this kind of stuff - it's a safety issue and it [bleep] with driver expectation.
Not a red light camera but something similar. Highway patrolman gave me a ticket for running a red light when I knew damn well I had not. Defective signal and the yellow only lasted for one and half seconds. If you hit the white cross walk line just as it turned yellow the light would turn red in the short time frame. Took a movie camera with tripod and set up and filmed that short sequence until I the film ran dry. A fifty foot roll doesn't last all that long. I forget how many frames a second that *mm ran but I proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the yellow was only 1.5 seconds in length. Unfortunately this was San Francisco and if you got ticket regardless the fact that you proved otherwise you were still guilty/$200 fine and $500 court costs.Just another reason why about 8 months later I left the communist city by the bay forever. PJ
It's been proven that many towns installed the cameras and at the same shortened the time of the yellow light. It's nothing more than a way to generate revenue.
I kind of doubt this. No professional traffic engineer would ever do this kind of stuff - it's a safety issue and it [bleep] with driver expectation.
Yes, it was being done. I saw some charts that showed the standard length of the yellow. Some towns were shortening it by several seconds. What brought it to the public eye was an increase in rear end collisions at lights as drivers slammed on their brakes when they turned yellow.
I got two speeding tickets from a camera speed trap in Bluff City TN and never paid either one of them. I received 2-3 followup notices but ditched those as well. Nothing happened.
Would that the the community of Piney Flats right outside of Bluff City and south of the racetrack. That is a speed trap from hell for someone out of town. It is a nice 4-lane highway in a fairly noncongested area with a 45 mph limit. My son-in-law has gotten a couple of camera tickets there.
You need to read what the tickets say. Mostly they are administrative tickets offering civil penalties. That is to say, if you live in that county or city, you won’t be able to renew your tags if you don’t pay. If you don’t live there, put it in the trash.
That’s the way they were in Texas before they were outlawed. My father-in-law and I both got one for running a red light on the same day in Dibol. Neither one of us even remembered coming close to running the one red light in Dibol. He paid his. I threw mine in the trash. Ten or twelve years later, I still get occasional letters from some debt collection law firm in San Antonio warning me of dire consequences if I don’t pay.
I got one in Diboll, Tx, about 3 years ago. Before daylight and I followed a 18 wheeler thru a red light and it turned red as I went thru. Saw the camera flash in the mirror. Sure enough, I get the ticket with a pic of my truck and the red light. I paid it.
When I worked for oil states and had to go through Houston I'd get on the tollway and run the tollway both, the company would pay the tickets.
My wifes mother drove out with her friend to visit from MN, the friend drove. They drove thru the open road tolling booths without stopping and without the transponder. Going home they did the same thing. They had know idea about the open road tolling booths. They were very surprised when a crapload of tickets showed up in the mail.
We had one here for a couple of years. The cameras and radar start taking a series of photos and speed readings slightly before the light turns red. An officer reviewed the photos and speed readings to determine if a ticket was sent. If you maintained the same speed or slowed as you went through the intersection you were very likely to not get a ticket if it were close. If you accelerated through the intersection, they figured you were trying to beat the light.
They also considered that if you were behind a large truck and couldn't see the light until you were in the intersection. As long as it was a slow speed situation, they didn't send a ticket.
The 1st year lots of tickets were issued. But the state legislature passed a law requiring the yellow light had to stay on for 1 full second longer at lights with cameras than other intersections. That 1 extra second meant that the number of tickets issued the 2nd year was way down. It was costing the city more to have the cameras than they were bringing in from fines. After the 2nd year they took them down and kept the extra 1 second on the yellow light.
It's been proven that many towns installed the cameras and at the same shortened the time of the yellow light. It's nothing more than a way to generate revenue.
I kind of doubt this. No professional traffic engineer would ever do this kind of stuff - it's a safety issue and it [bleep] with driver expectation.
but red light cameras are a perfect example to me of community leaders making decisions that go against the will of the people
I mean if you put it to a vote, would anyone in the community be in favor a red light camera that monitors people 24/7 and results in them paying a fine? Yea, maybe one or two rainbow flag flying guys who ride their recumbent bikes instead of a car, but by and large, the community would be against it. Yet leaders make the decision, most often to justify revenue with little to no regard to safety.
I just do a slow burn when stuff like this happens - all you can do is vote them out I guess. Who has time to fight city hall.
You need to read what the tickets say. Mostly they are administrative tickets offering civil penalties. That is to say, if you live in that county or city, you won’t be able to renew your tags if you don’t pay. If you don’t live there, put it in the trash.
That’s the way they were in Texas before they were outlawed. My father-in-law and I both got one for running a red light on the same day in Dibol. Neither one of us even remembered coming close to running the one red light in Dibol. He paid his. I threw mine in the trash. Ten or twelve years later, I still get occasional letters from some debt collection law firm in San Antonio warning me of dire consequences if I don’t pay.
I got one in Diboll, Tx, about 3 years ago. Before daylight and I followed a 18 wheeler thru a red light and it turned red as I went thru. Saw the camera flash in the mirror. Sure enough, I get the ticket with a pic of my truck and the red light. I paid it.
I don't know about other states, but here, at least previously, if your front bumper has entered the intersection before it turned red, you're legal. I say previously because it's reported that currently there are no functioning cameras in the state. There are still cameras on the lights but they're all disconnected.
Camera generated tickets have been argued in court many times. We have the right to face our accuser. No camera has ever testified in court.
I think the state or city is the accuser, the photo is just the evidence.
Would the accused be able to subpoena the installer to ask how they guarantee the camera functions properly?
I guess if you'd like to take it that far, you could.
That would be the same as sending a subpoena to the guy who made a radar unit to explain it was working properly when you got a speeding ticket.
If you have enough money, you can appeal anything up the ladder of courts. Lawyers love that!
Guy I knew in college kinda did something like that to beat a DUI. IIRC, he was able to prove with statistics that they could not claim 100% he blew the state min on the breathalyzer. Again, IIRC, the device was not being calibrated correctly or on the proper schedule. Cost him a few grand, but he wanted if off his record before applying to medical school.
I had to go to Tyler TX a while back for a friend’s wedding. Their bullshiet toll “booths” that take you picture and send you a bill were advertised as honoring OK Pikepass. Apparently they don’t because I got a bill in the mail a couple weeks later.
I paid it online with my bank card almost as soon as it showed up. Only to get another bill with late fees the following week. I attempted to call and sort it out but they’re only open for calls half a day one day a week and are apparently either flooded with calls or they don’t actually answer. So after multiple attempts to contact them I commenced to throwing their scary letters into the trash. I bet I got those damn bills for 9 months before they stopped sending them.
It’s administrative in most places because while they may have evidence the car ran a red light, they don’t have evidence of the driver. So it’s an administrative deal and mostly a scam unless you actually live there.
In Illinois you get a link to the video when you get the ticket. The one my wife got clearly showed her entering and going through the intersection after the light had turned red.
My wife got two of them, in my car of course. The notice in the mail stated that if I wasn't the driver in the photo I had to write the name of who was driving, have it notarized and send it back to them. I obviously would have been paying either way so those went in the trash. They were found unconstitutional and that's the reason they dont have a court date or notice to appear on them. They hope that fear will be enough to extort money from you, such as some posters in this thread fell for.
My wife got two of them, in my car of course. The notice in the mail stated that if I wasn't the driver in the photo I had to write the name of who was driving, have it notarized and send it back to them. I obviously would have been paying either way so those went in the trash. They were found unconstitutional and that's the reason they dont have a court date or notice to appear on them. They hope that fear will be enough to extort money from you, such as some posters in this thread fell for.
Sometimes it's not the fear that makes you pay such a ticket. There are reasons for not wanting an unpaid ticket on your driving record.
In Illinois you get a link to the video when you get the ticket. The one my wife got clearly showed her entering and going through the intersection after the light had turned red.
How could they tell it was her driving?
He clearly stated such.
IME they're issued to the registered owner. The registrant then can try to implicate someone else as the driver, such as a company identifying who the driver was.
Received one for speeding into a slower speed zone. No warning ahead, just a flash at the 55 sign... Iowa. Company said pay it. I did. Never was reported to the state or shown on driving record. However, said company is required to report it to any prospective employer. BS deal among many and no doubt jurisdiction specific. I know now it'd been better to throw some money at a defense. Clean riving record and incident free = more money.
My wife got two of them, in my car of course. The notice in the mail stated that if I wasn't the driver in the photo I had to write the name of who was driving, have it notarized and send it back to them. I obviously would have been paying either way so those went in the trash. They were found unconstitutional and that's the reason they dont have a court date or notice to appear on them. They hope that fear will be enough to extort money from you, such as some posters in this thread fell for.
Sometimes it's not the fear that makes you pay such a ticket. There are reasons for not wanting an unpaid ticket on your driving record.
That’s the point. It’s not a ticket. And it isn’t on your record if you don’t pay it.
I got a ticket and called them up. I said I watched the video and the driver is not visible. I told them my daughter is in possession of that car. They cancelled the ticket.
I have received several over the years, wad them up and toss them in the trash, even one straight on, never heard a peep from one municipality. They rely on the ignorant driver sending in the so called fine.
I just renewed my DL this month, no problems whatsoever.
In Illinois you get a link to the video when you get the ticket. The one my wife got clearly showed her entering and going through the intersection after the light had turned red.
How could they tell it was her driving?
He clearly stated such.
I think he was speaking loosely. I think he just meant her car.
Color me skeptical that they had an identifiable picture of his wife. Her car, yes. Her? Doubt it.
In Illinois you get a link to the video when you get the ticket. The one my wife got clearly showed her entering and going through the intersection after the light had turned red.
How could they tell it was her driving?
He clearly stated such.
I think he was speaking loosely. I think he just meant her car.
Color me skeptical that they had an identifiable picture of his wife. Her car, yes. Her? Doubt it.
Not necessarily, drivers are clearly identified by traffic cams. Happens all the time. Even at freeway speeds. Mine had a picture of the license plate, and one of my face. MoFos have figured this chit out over the past twenty years. Surely there's exceptions though.... As to the courts, some jurisdictions have been doing this for many years, no doubt they have it figured out as well. Likely there's some website that compares jurisdictions on this chit.
Camera generated tickets have been argued in court many times. We have the right to face our accuser. No camera has ever testified in court.
I think the state or city is the accuser, the photo is just the evidence.
Would the accused be able to subpoena the installer to ask how they guarantee the camera functions properly?
I guess if you'd like to take it that far, you could.
That would be the same as sending a subpoena to the guy who made a radar unit to explain it was working properly when you got a speeding ticket.
If you have enough money, you can appeal anything up the ladder of courts. Lawyers love that!
Guy I knew in college kinda did something like that to beat a DUI. IIRC, he was able to prove with statistics that they could not claim 100% he blew the state min on the breathalyzer. Again, IIRC, the device was not being calibrated correctly or on the proper schedule. Cost him a few grand, but he wanted if off his record before applying to medical school.
This ^^^^^^ .... At some point in the past the Escort Radar Detector folks would help their customers beat speeding tickets. Go to court. And start asking detailed questions: When was the last time the radar unit was calibrated? Who calibrated it? When was the last time the person who did the calibration was properly trained and certified on calibration process? How often is it calibrated? Do you have a log of calibrations and adjustments? And so on. Types of questions that most departments would never have the man power to fully execute and document all of the details. Never contest the speed. Just cast serious doubt on the validity of the results...
Throw it in the trash,find out who's responsible for it being there.Vote the fugger or fuggers out of office.Have a party tearing the things down.Democracy in action.
I got two speeding tickets from a camera speed trap in Bluff City TN and never paid either one of them. I received 2-3 followup notices but ditched those as well. Nothing happened.
Would that the the community of Piney Flats right outside of Bluff City and south of the racetrack. That is a speed trap from hell for someone out of town. It is a nice 4-lane highway in a fairly noncongested area with a 45 mph limit. My son-in-law has gotten a couple of camera tickets there.
That's it! I had forgotten that was actually Piney Flats and not Bluff City.
On the way into work, I stopped at a red light. The flashes of the red light cameras were going nuts, but the only people going through the intersection had a green light.
If those drivers get a ticket in the mail, how can they fight it and prove they had the green light?
Aurora and denver got called on the 2 second yellows. A lot if intersections now have 4 way red before the green. These little buzzy hotrod hondas dont have license plates, just a [bleep] driver that does jobs americans won't. One passed me on I70 shoulder in the 65 mph while I was doing 80. Hit a shredded truck tire with no apparent damage, I wish it was concrete chunks.
