You guys who make a point of not having lived in sin.

Where you (both) virgins at marriage?

You know, where you sleep isn't a sin,
it's what you do awake that is.
No matter what your addresses.


No, we didn't live together.
No, we weren't angels.


Bet this thread dies fast!

If two people love and care for each other why does organized religion have to sanction it other than for money? I have Faith but screw the money-hungry churches.

Pretty sure you never heard me say anything of that sort. Love who you want to love however you want to love them.

Hmmm...

Genesis 1:28

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

I think he gave us permission to screw our brains out, no?

The list of scheit I’m going to hell for is long and fairly comprehensive. Premarital cohabitation is waaaaaay down the list.

"Love your neighbor- - - - -just don't get caught!"

Exactly! I will see you there and I am fairly certain I will be in the "Express Lane". I look at it like this: No matter how much I liked a new pair of boots I would never buy them without trying them on first.

The Bible was written by men, so they put their interpretation in there, first organized religion.

Organized religion, is about money first and foremost, the Catholic church in point.

About like i expected.

Where are the guys this was targeted at?

Nothing wrong with you all giving your input, it's welcomed.



Personally, I'm against the shacking up thing. It's not ideal, much of life isn't.


Roger stated it well


There are many relationship options way worse.

Was just trolling to find someone with the integrity to admit they
opposed it, but still did the deed out of wedlock.
Maybe explain how my perception is wrong.

Or, to see how many had some standing to judge, after keeping it
in their pants until there was a ring on the finger.

I doubt that any of us waited until marriage. The concept of virginity until marriage or at minimum some level of self control isn’t a bad one.

We all want sex. Most of us have a lot of it before marriage because we want it. There’s more pitfalls to sleeping around before a committed relationship, STD’s, used and jaded woman, unplanned pregnancy’s and broken homes than there are any advantages.

Most of us do it. It isn’t the high water mark for a society or culture and religious or societal norms that minimize it are nearly always good for a society Vs. One that encourages it.

My mother & I had a very serious talk about this.

She, a very strong southern Baptist told me straight up that she was very unhappy with my living with my girlfriend, & we should be married.

I told her that might happen but after the first wife I had, my second was going to be known a tested as much as possible. I still don't think it's right, she said. Get used to it ,ignore it or whatever, I sad. But if this one doesn't work out, I'll live with another that I think might have potential, before I EVER marry again.

She finally realized times were different & I had made a decent choice. That woman I had lived in sin with was with her & holding her hand when she passed.

I do believe, contrary to my past behavior, that one is supposed to select a spouse and stay with them for life except in the case of adultery, but that doesn’t, IMO require a civil contract, only a personal and spiritual commitment. Numerous figures in the Bible had children by their servants, and no mention is made of marriage, just procreation, and no stigma is attached to the offspring. Whoring around however, wasn’t okay. Non-believers were and are free to do whatever they want, at their own risk naturally, and eventually😛

When I was a Baptist, I asked one of the pastors how it was that God permitted the patriarchs and kings to have multiple wives and concubines, yet continued to bless them abundantly, but current theology condemns it. His answer was less than satisfactory, that it just showed the extent of God's mercy. I ain’t buying that. Even Paul, while enumerating the qualifications for service, listed “being the husband of one wife”, for reasons obvious to me in the context, but he didn’t say having more than one was wrong per se. So it appears to me that as long as you don’t ditch the previous wife, it may be entirely acceptable to have more than one, if you can take the heat, and subject to local ordinances of course.

Won't buy a cow without sampling the milk.

In legal marriage= the church and state make money, Divorce the lawyers and state make money.

2 wives at once, you've gone mad.
Me and the wife were not virgins before marriage, but I'm thinking I'm gonna turn into one if that's possible. Menopause is not very fun

Lots of folks want to make excuses for poor behavior.


Is society better served by a 2 parent household?
Is society better served by those 2 people staying together?

Societal pressure to stay loyal and true to your mate isn’t just a way for the man to get more money from you, or a way for the church to insert itself into your life.

I cohabitated with one woman, and it’ll haunt me to my grave.

My wife and I moved in together once we were engaged 22 years ago and she hasn’t left yet.

IMHO, two people can be in a committed marriage relationship without the blessing of the State..............

The State(s) have decided that men can marry men, and Cali was apparently going to issue a marriage license to a man and his horse! 'Til they found out the horse was 15yo, and the State required parental consent if under 16..............

Many States are now confused on gender.

With all that I don't need the blessing of the GOV for a marriage................

I'm not in the pro "shacking up" camp or hook up culture. However I'm completely against some governing or sanctioning body being involved in some couple's affairs with permission and marriage certificates.

When I look into how they "took" themselves wives in the scriptures I've no problem with that either. I'm also fine if a fella has multiple wives much like the patriarchs of Israel.

Our problem in these so called modern times is that we've left the traditional family and marriage values and have sanctioned women becoming something other than wives and wife material. Young men in times past were married early and we read about people back in the day getting married so young. The utility of that is so it keeps the young me from roaming around causing trouble and wasting effort and energy. If young fellas at that age can work, and get reliable tail at home they were more productive and reliable and it kept them from straying in an agrarian and pastoral lifestyle. Today the govt and western modern society has disrupted that model. Men won't have to sleep around if their getting everything at home

Taxes...it boils down to taxes.

Ymmv

Nothing wrong with that, but if things go south You should be able to leave without paying a bunch of people to do it. I'm going to divorce my old lady after the first of the year, which will cost 2000 more or less. why should we have to be out that money, I'd rather her have it than a lawyer.

How much money do you think is donated to charity by folks who belong to an "organized religion" vs folks who do not?

How does "carrying a squaw" figure into all this?

You absolutely have to try on your shoes before you buy them!!

When is the wedding?

I like that.

If there is a heaven or hell, or God(s)there is n o evidence in evidence.

"Faith" is believing in something with no evidence. If it bobs your cork, and does no harm (extremists excluded) go for it.

Just don't nag me about it.

I have no idea but I contribute to ones I thank are worthy after I check them out.

Only bible I know about was KJV
This was a bible that a king had written to suit him .
You can say it however you want to .
But I’m sure head games were mixed in for insecurity reasons and maintaining the subjects .
Stx first post was on the money for the most part .
One that I fall back on is the Holy Ghost was left as a comforter and a convictor.
Which means to me , a conscience.
You feel comfort from doing the right thing and conviction for not doing the right thing .
We all know when we are crossing the line .
Marriage I figure was an insecurity , control , and money issue .
Seek your on salvation comes into play here also .
Don’t need no fancy church or lying ass or brain washed oreacher telling me what’s up and wasting another day of my life
Kenneth

Why is religion so obsessed with sex?

You might have that backwards.

This stuff is not rocket science... Back in old testament times and before, a man and woman would hook up with someone they could trust so they could survive. They needed each other to survive and have offspring, so they stayed together. Then came organized religion and governments. A woman nowadays will leave her husband for another that makes more money, because money is everything now.

In this case, the words of Matthew 7-1 seem like good advice to follow.

You threaten someone with eternity in a river of fire unless they give, they tend to open the pocketbook. If it wasn’t for the falsehood of paying your way out of hell, it would be a lot less giving!

She leave you for a doctor or a lawyer, Rog?

lol no, she has never had to have a job. I'm leaving to be happy.

Pretty obvious.
Sex
Power
Money.

Maybe you could add to the list, but those three drive most
sins/problems/crimes. Whatever you want to call it.

Murder, envy, theft......
The 10 Commandments, the whole criminal code.

A huge part of it is centered on money, sex, power.




Money and pűssy.
If they didn't exist, men would have no problems.

If they didn't exist, what would men have to live for?

Life’s too short to be miserable.I truly hope you find the happiness you’re looking for.
I’m lucky, I found the most wonderful woman that’s ever walked the Earth. Her only fault is me.

The 10 Commandments for the most part are what you should follow not a church.

My uncle always said:

“If it wasn’t for what they have between their legs, they’d open a season on ‘em!”

And:

“Anything that bleeds a week out of every month and lives had to come from the devil himself”.

LMAO

No.

Love who you want to love, sure. But if you do, love them well and true.

" I give you 'free choice'.... do it my way or I'll send you to eternal damnation in a fiery hell."

Some "choice"....

Don't forget that the Hebrews invented the "one God" concept- or at least "thou shalt have no Gods BEFORE me"(semantics?) - and there was considerable mankind time before then. What happened to those poor bastards?

Live free. Seriously.

The ONLY reason my wife and I made it legal was for the ability to make decisions for one another if needed and to simplify things with regard to finance and the like. We lived together as man and wife for several years before we made it legal.

We were totally committed to one another by the time I “took her to my home and knew her”, as the Book says. My personal belief is that while we were committed to the relationship before that, it was cemented in God’s eyes at that time, and the State has nothing to do with it. I do not believe God views the State or any organized church as the arbiter of marriage, but is Himself the arbiter of it. And he takes a dim view of jumping from woman to woman. Even dimmer view of things like two men.

There are many instances in the Book of men taking a gal to the tent and after their copulation, her being known as his wife. It is clear to me that God attaches strong importance to the relations between man and woman, as evidenced by His warnings and punishments relative to it. Sexual sin is some of the most heavily punished for a reason. You are not simply sinning on your own, you are causing or enabling another person to sin with you. He created us male and female, and made us desire one another, in order to ensure the multiplication of the species. The enjoyable nature of it was a gift with a purpose, not simply some amusement to be indulged in with any and all who would accept one’s advances.

Yep, I am.

It's all Honky Dory until your girlfriend poison,s you.

Thank the Lord for that vision of life saving charcoal..

👍👍🤣🤣🤣

My buddy used to say.....

There are two kinds of people in this world.... those that are living in sin, and those that wish they were.

"Only bible I know about was KJV
This was a bible that a king had written to suit him .
You can say it however you want to ."

I read an article the other day where they said they knew of 18 passages in the bible that were altered to suit someone at that time in history. Even King James altered things to suit him. Two examples I know of, one of the Ten Commandments says, Thou shalt not kill." From the Greek it said, Thou shalt not do murder." In the Song of Solomon it says something about a navel tasting sweeter than honey. I do believe it was something a little bit lower.

Who knows how many time the bible may have been changed in one way or another to suit someone's purpose?
PJ

I always mentally pictured sitting on a bench along with many others in a waiting room outside the entrance to Hades. Guy beside me asks, "what are you charged with to wind up here?"

I reply, "I did the dirty out of Holy wedlock with multiple women."

I then ask him, "what are you charged with?"

His reply, "I fantasized about it"...

Jiminy Cricket

you makin me laugh again.

First time shooting the 8mm, right?

What about tattoos?

Are they OK if you're both virgins and not living with each other?

My wife called up and said "Don't you you think it's weird that we are
still married and you've lived with another for years?'' I said "Send the papers
and I'll sign them. " I got divorced and remarried soon after. Been with the
second one over 40 years.

Lol

Well and true is not something that's so popular these days.

You're talking about a series of documents and supposed testimonials compiled over at least a century and then filtered through 1900 years of government, so . . .

ROTFL!

Someone's gonna say................



"I don't get it"

As my attorney (female) basically said; marriage is just a financial contract when you get down to it.

Following the 10 Commandments will never get you into a state of righteousness because we can as humans never fulfill that list to perfection.

We are all sinners, no matter how "good" we think we are. The whole point of that list was to illustrate the total depravity & helplessness of man and how we need a Savior to redeem us.

You can never "do good" yourself into heaven. This man made, works based salvation is a lie and a slap in the face of God who provided our righteousness at the cross.

+1 SuperCub

Ephesians 2:8-9 maps man's path to Heaven.

Only about 45% of couples who live together get married. Of the ones that do, they are about 50% more likely to divorce.

There's also a strong correlation between the number of partners people have had and divorce. The more partners, the more likely to divorce once married.

Something I've been seeing more and more of among both young and older adults every passing year is couples moving in together for economic reasons more so than just so they can sleep together as it can be good bit cheaper overall to pay rent, utilities, living expenses, etc., with both living under one roof versus the cost of maintaining two.

me and the wife were both virgins when we married ,wife by choice till she was married ,me not so much . it just turned out that way

If you put together all the stuff about sex in the Bible, it can be condensed into 2 rules: 1-you must be married to your partner, and 2-your partner must be of the opposite sex.

The Bible has no rules about what marriage is other than a commitment to be together for life. There is nothing about a ceremony, a license, or registration by a state. In the earliest mention of a wedding in the Bible, it was some kind of family celebration followed by consummation. All the rest came later as a necessity to prove that you're married for the purposes of inheritance. Without secular laws on marriage, it can get pretty nasty when a guy dies and nobody knows who gets what. To the ancient Jews, lineage was very important. Keeping track of family lines wasn't scriptural but they believed that it must be recorded. Jesus went so far as to say that keeping long lists of family lines wasn't to be done.

"We are most alive when we are in love." "The only thing we never get enough of is love; and the only thing we never give enough of is love."

We lived in sin* for 6 months before getting engaged.
46 years later, we are grandparents.


* her parents are missionaries, and did not approve of sin.

Interesting, as far as my experience goes.

The majority of folks I know that had one or only a couple of girlfriends/partners before marriage were the ones that ended up divorced by the time they were in their 30's or later once the "kids were grown".

In contrast, the majority of the folks I know that had multiple relationships, without getting hitched, that found a mate after they were mature enough to understand what the deal was really about are still married. Like myself and my wife. Study friends in University, then about 3 years living together, and now going on 23 years married. Both of us had "multiple partners" and I think she was even engaged once.

Sex is a biological need. Just like eating. I can do that alone but every once in a while it's nice to have dinner with someone else................even out of "wedlock"

Then again, what do I know.............I even listen to and enjoy that dang Rock and Roll music.

I don't know anyone who has made the point of not having lived in sin.

Exactly.

I want better for my kids than I had.

Marriage isn’t merely a religious rite (tho it can be that) it is the foundational relationship that holds together the building block of healthy societies, namely the family.

Just because I made the mistake of doing things I ought not have done doesn’t mean I shrug it off and say “oh well son I had my fun you go have yours”. In fact it’s means I’m all the more passionate in training my children to be self controlled, modest, and to live in this world in such a way as to make it better for posterity.

The sexual revolution & feminism (really they’re the same thing) have eroded our society by allowing men to think with their dicks and women to expect that that’s all they’ll do. It’s ultimately just pure self centeredness.

If I could pick one choice in life to go back and do over it’d be to take the road less traveled. Maybe I’d make it maybe not. My eldest did and I’m sure their marriage will be better for it.

Can’t for the life of me imagine what harm can come from suggesting we delay gratification for the good of a future spouse.

The wife and I rented a small house before we married. We did all the things pre-married 20 year olds do. Well, she was 19. Cook, clean, have parties, some were epic, yard work, (other ) you get the idea. Her mom would not pay for the wedding if she stayed there. 10-11 o'clock every night it was "see ya tomorrow, luv ya" and off to her folks house 15 mins. away to sleep. Repeat for 3 months.
Celebrated our 43rd anniversary last month.

Who is it targeted at?

"Be strong and courageous, do not be afraid or tremble at them," Deut 31:6

In today's world, marriage is a temporary, open ended legal arrangement that can be terminated by either party at any time, for any or no reason.

There's still good legal reasons to be married, involving kids, custody, legal rights to speak into medical care in critical conditions, credit and contract law, inheritances, etc, etc, etc.

Morally, well, morality is up to you. Being married doesn't make you moral.

The Bible condemns incest, bestiality, adultery and fornication (sex outside of marriage). The Bible has no concept of a civil union. Marriage is a lifelong commitment between a man and a women made before God.

I hope there is a common agreement among you people on the fist three as immoral.

The reduction of marriage into a legal construct is one of the causes destroying the family unit. The destruction of the family unit is destroying society and America.

True marriage is a selfless life long commitment between a man and women.

Promiscuity is not healthy no matter your spiritual beliefs.

I plowed a lot of fields in the past. Sure didn't feel sinful at the time. No regrets now.

Did not live together before married.

Had slept together though !

Met a HS aged 12, started dating at 16, married at 22.

known each other 44 years, been together 40 years & married for 34 years.





Deb is my best friend, & along with our Kids (& puppers) is my world.

She looks at me like this, every time I cook our anniversary supper;

"Women's liberation" was baked into the cake from the start.

How come sin is always fun?

OldHat]Who is it targeted at?

"Be strong and courageous, do not be afraid or tremble at them," Deut 31:6[/quote]




It comes up,was in a thread that spawned this one.
And I honestly don't remember what it was.



It was targeted at anybody that makes a big deal about folks shacking up.

Just a question.

Shacking up real bad?
You sample the fruits before you paid for them?

Personally think neither is the ideal.

Didn't, couldn't, probably wouldn't, live up to the ideal in deeds.

Guess this is a call out for the high minded judgmental types.
My sister would be a great example.
Divorced, boyfriend she runs around with.
Would never consider living in the same house, but they are alone in his
a lot. Go away weekends.

Don't know or care what they do.
Human nature makes me guess.

She would run her mouth all day about some folks sharing a home,
I'd bet the ranch she's doing the same nasty as anyone else.


Hypocrisy lights me up.

Dillonbuck: "Let he who is WITHOUT sin cast the first..... " - well YOU know.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

We all know God’s expectation of us. We all know our intent toward those directives. All too often there is a fixed chasm dividing them. That is of our own volition.

Sure you did.


LOL

Aren’t you the guy that sits down to piss because your wife tells you to?

I'm guessing you never had the clap.

That's the wages of sin.

Buncha guys here could do worse than to listen to Roger and give what he's saying some deep thought.

Just a question ...

Do you enjoy eating fruit chewed and slobbered on by everyone else in the store?

You think a piece of paper keeps a woman from screwing around?

She either will or she won’t


You have politicians being sworn in on Dr Suess books now.

As a mere mortal I sin daily.

Just for the record, Jesus was NOT condoning the woman's adultery. The Jews dragged her to him to trap him. According to the Jewish law, both parties in adultery were to be stoned but they didn't bring the man and we're not told who he was. He could well have been someone important to the Jews. Their game was to force Jesus to either condemn her or to break the law. Jesus knew their game and said the 'let he who is without sin' statement. He also knew the woman was repentant and he forgave her, just as he forgives all of us who repent. He also told her to 'go and sin no more'.

The way I see it there is a big difference in being married in the eyes of God and the eyes of the state. One implies a life long commitment, the other a legal agreement.

The legal agreements have be come necessary because 'life long commitments' have been broken far too many times. When things get rough, it's too easy to walk away when there's no legal contract.

Armednfree for the win. -tnscouter