Why does the seemingly universal edict "Start 10% low and work up" not apply to shotgun shell reloading where we are warned not to deviate AT ALL from the published 'recipe'? Is it due to the speed of shotgun powders being so much faster and the relatively heavy payloads (ounces vs 150 grains or so)?

Interesting question, I don’t know the answer.
Shotgun pressures are roughly 20% of high pressure rifle loads, maybe that’s the issue.

I always used the recipe in the book and never looked any further.

I have friends that actually “worked up” by shooting over a chronograph to match what the recipe stated

I only load per the manufactures data. Never had a problem, because they already done the work for us. Stick to published data and save time and headaches.

Shotgun loads are pressure tested with the exact components listed. Substitution of any components could give excess pressure. Also of note is that increasing velocity can cause patterns to blow out. Rifle data is listed with a max load with warnings that it may not be safe in all rifles.

Hard to say... I load both shot gun and rifle loads.

I tend to shop for my desired result on loading my shot gun.... like... shot load size and speed of shot and then I load that specific load to get those results. And I use the recipe accordingly...

For instance... I want a 1 1/8oz of #7 copper plated shot load moving at 1225 fps in my 12 gauge and 1oz of #6 moving at 1185 in my 20.

But in my 300wsm I want a 150gr ttsx with holes touching at 100 yards and speed is not as relevent... a little hotter powder or a little slower burn at different grains may get me accuracy or not.

Just seems weird to me that just using the available wad instead of the specified one, at low psi, is such a no-no.

That’s what im sayin brother man

This.

Including hulls.

I haven't always followed this concerning hulls, but one certainly should.

With SG's the pressure builder is mostly in the payload, hull, & wad. Something the ballistician can test & control in house, ans once that payload leaves the hull the pressure build curtails.

With rifle/HC there are additional pressure builders(throat, bore dia, & surface finish) that fluctuate from gun to gun. These are variables that the ballistician cannot control or predict, therefor, the warning to back off 10% & try in your own gun before proceeding.

Which is because different wads can result in WIDELY varying pressures.

Might also mention that I have chronographed many handloads in shotguns over the past 25 years, and despite somewhat different barrel lengths and even chamber lengths (such as 3" vs. 2-3/4" in both 20 and 12-gauge) the velocities have almost always been close to what's published. This is no doubt due to the higher interior volume of shotgun barrels, and lower pressures, as opposed to the much higher ratio of powder to volume in rifle barrels.

One major factor in shotshells is also primers, which as with rifle primers can also affect pressures considerably. But with the much faster-burning shotshell powders it can vary even more. Here are the results of a major ammunition factory's tests of various shotshell primers in 12-gauge loads from a few years ago, all using the same wads, cases, powder charge and shot:

Federal 209A—10,860 PSI
CCI 209M—10,460
Winchester 209, 1st lot—10,200
Winchester 209, 2nd lot—10,240
Remington 209 STS—9,740
Fiocchi 616—9,690
CCI 209—9,650
Cheddite 209—9,270
Federal 209—9,070

The difference may not seem like much, but the highest pressure is 20% higher than the lowest--which in typical modern rifle loads is equivalent to 65,000 PSI (the highest average pressure allowed by SAAMI) and 78,000 PSI--which usually blows primers.

Hm. Thanks for that. I guess I just need to make damn sure my components match the recipe. Haven't started yet but my press and hulls and wads are under my bench waiting for a rainy day

Also operating pressure zones. Underpressure loads will burn inconsistent and dirty. I look for a load that is least 9000 psi and closer to 10,000 if possible, with components I have.

Kent

I haven't reloaded any shotgun shells in several years in part because it's kind of a pain to line up all the components needed to match load data when components are hard to source.

I have loaded shotgun shells, but I was loading for trap only, trying to save money, so I never experimented much.
I did find that without some multistage expensive setup, it’s really hard to save any money, because trap eats up ammo.
Rifles, OTOH, I love loading for because,
A. I can do a helluva lot more shooting than I would buying factory ammo.
I know I’m not saving money, truth is I’m spending probably a lot more.
B. The extra money I’m spending over buying factory loads allows me to do way more shooting, both my hunting and target rifles than a normal person person would buying factory ammunition.
And recreational Gunfire helps me keep the stress away!
C. Some people find handloading tedious. I do not.
As a matter of fact I find it relaxing. I listen to my favorite music, and I feel a little better after loading 50 shells.
D. I know what I’m feeding my rifles, and I know the ammo I’m shooting is the very best, because it’s tailored for each rifle! (Even different Rifles in the same caliber!)
If I didn’t enjoy doing it, I wouldn’t, but like I said, I find both the process and the end result more fun than watching tv or running around. I don’t push the limits though, I’m very careful about my guns, and if I see signs something may be wrong, I stop that and try something else.
Even the process of working up a load for a new rifle is great for me, because I enjoy both sides of doing it.
I’ve never gotten into handguns or pistols enough to try doing it. So I have nothing further to add.
7mm

Explain the variation over the years. We used to load 37 grains of blue dot with an 1 3/8 of shot in a peters blue magic case with a wwra red12 wad in the 70's from Hercules. One duck killing load. They kept dropping the charge weight then changed the wad by 1982. Wtf

I used book recipes for shotgun, but I did weigh charges on a scale for grins. I used Lyman powder bushing chart.

Important Information About Shotshell Pressures

Written by Tom Roster

https://www.shotgunlife.com/shotguns/tom-roster/important-information-about-shotshell-pressures.html

Leon pretty well hit it.

What John said with a couple of additions.

!. Shotguns have thinner barrels than rifles. SOME, much thinner than others. The loads are still developed to be safe in those thin barrels.

2. Target shooting loads have max velocities that aren't supposed to be exceeded for competition.

3. There is no work up a load to pressure with shotguns because pressure is never all that far from BOOM because of the much faster burning powders used.

4. Shotgun barrels while perfectly capable of being a PITA about patterning with a new load are more rarely finicky about small variances in bore diameter. Some shoot well with dents/bends in them that would hurt you in a rifle barrel.

I always chrony my shotgun loads to see what they are really doing. I dialed into an all around hunting load about 20 years ago and have pretty much only loaded that 1 load since then. At the time I chronied and patterned different loads and found that changing casing or wad often had a big effect on velocity.

I determined it was cheaper to just buy my target and dove loads most of the time but loading my pheasant loads saved me money. I wish I could find more Remington sps cases. It's about time to load another case or two.

My favorite hunting load is a rem sts case, win 209, ww red wad, 1.5 ounce of #5s, and longshot.

I was excited to find bags of lead shot at our Sportsmans the other day. I need to start load 20 gauge for my kids now so I'll be chonying and patterning again. I need about a 3/4 ounce low recoil load for my 7 year old. It'll will be interesting to see how different powders and wads effect recoil.

Bb

Ditto, my patterns were always as expected with published recipes, thus no need to deviate. Chasing that extra 50-100 fps had no chance of improving patterns, so why bother. All the competitions I shot prohibited reloads and limited velocities. And fellow competitors DID check each other out, especially the top guns.

More variables in shotgun loading. Crimp quality, forcing cone length and others make a big difference.

The biggest elephant in the room is powder variability. The recipes are in grains, but many reloaders use fixed powder bushings, and read which bushing they need from a chart, not with a scale.

I find a “ recipe” that fits my available components at the time.

If the “recipe” calls for Fed209 primers and I run out and am left with a different brand, don’t care, I continue to load with the same powder bushing and the same shot charge.

If I run out of “recipe” wads, then switch to a differ t brand, same size, Don’t care, I still use the same powder bushing and shot charge.

If I am loading AA hulls and there are a bunch of Rem. Cases mixed in, Don’t care as long as the case is filled correctly and crimps properly.

Used to reload AA 12 ga long ago early to mid 90,s.
Nothing major.

Trap and some sporting clays shooting on the weekends with a couple of guys from the unit.
Dove hunting.

WW112 wad IIRC???
26 or 27 grains WSF IIRC???
1 1/8TH Oz 8 shot
WW 209 primers.
Got around 1300 1320 Fps load per " book" loadings that came with the simple Lee load all.
Could get 5 to 7 reloads out of the old AA cf shells before crimp and petal issue.

Was probably around 3.45 to 3.60 a box to reload them back then compared to 4.75 to 5.50ish a box of factory super sporting Clay's


Did the math on getting all set up again minus the cost of roughly 75 bucks for the load all.

I just didn't see any major savings versus buying factory AA shells from the get.
I know the empties are part of the cost benefit ratio as you aquire and cull as needed.
But companies have powder, wads, shot, and primers priced so close to their factory loads now to squeeze out the most they can.
It just ain't their for me to save 50 to 75 cents a box by reloading shot shells.
Then throw in availability of components in a take what they are gonna make and you have to accept it market.

Double AA super sporting clays 12 ga #8,s is what I buy when they are on the shelf.
Sitting on a good number of em now 650.
Plan is to aquire 1k by August.
I might shoot 300 a yr total between 2 weekends before Dove season and during it combined.
Basically on a 2yr ammo buying mission of various needs deer hunting, turkey hunting, tree rat hunting wise.
Pretty much set on wpn ammo, and ain't shooting up that anymore doing fun schit...

I don't think their is gonna be a very bright future after the 2024 potus, senate, and congress critter " elections"
With all the election fraud that has gone on.
I think our current congress "majority" is gonna be the last token one....


🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

I bought all of the shotgun shells I would ever need when Dedda signed the farm over to me.

Lots of good discussion and many good points. I personally use published data that matches the components I can find (used to be alot easier of course). Dutch has a great point about the use of poweder 'bushing' - I bought my first scale for use reloading shotgun shells and then quickly bought an adjustable charge bar. Bushings were all over the place as far as what they were supposed to 'throw' and what they actually did. At $3 a piece I wasn't going to possibly destroy them by reaming! And back in those days in this area (pre internet) they were hard to come by anyway.

I had sticker shock when I went to my local dealer and found 8 shot at $60/25 pounds. Several months back when shot was unobtanium I could still find some for around $45/25.

Even at that I can still load for much cheaper than Factory ammo.

AA 1 1/8oz 8 shot at Midway is $13.30/box.

If my math is correct, even with the $60 price tag on shot I can build that load for $8.30/box.

My two sons shoot a lot, so $5/box savings can add up quick.

That's 12ga, I have 3 410 shotguns and a Judge. 410 ammo is crazy expensive, usually around $25/box, when you can find it. I can load 3 inch 410 for about $6.50/box, that's a big difference.

A supplier here is charging $75 for 25 pound bags

Supposedly most of the lead supply comes from South America and mines are being shut down?

Both our local scheels and sportsmans had shot in most sizes over the weekend. $65/25# at scheels. $57/25# at sportsmans.

That’s what’s going on here as well, but they do have “reclaimed” shot for $40 Something a bag.

Duno what that is as I have never seen it outside the sack.

I'm awaiting not having to give my first born and the deed to the farm for a 25# bag of shot. I done run out of all the $11.00 a bag shot I got on sale at Carter's Country a while back.

The longer you wait, the cheap it will not get.

Chamber pressures for most shotshell reloads are in the 7-10,000 pounds per square inch range, most pistol reloads in the 20-35,000 psi range, and most rifles in the 50-60,000 psi range.

Using the same components, reloading manuals all list a powder weight spread as much as 4 grains in shotshell loads, 5 grains in pistol loads, and 10 grains in rifle loads. Load recipes also vary between manufactures and even between editions of manuals by the same manufacturer.

Loading recipies are not cast in stone, but maximum loads must be approached with caution.

I started rifle reloading in 1967 and pistol and shotgun reloading in 1970. I currently reload 6 pistol cartriges, 12 rifle, and 4 shotgun gauges.

I like to shoot, and reloading has allowed me to shoot for a fraction of the cost of factory ammo. I no longer do competition shooting, but I still go to the range at least one day, most weeks throughout the year. On a typical range day I'll shoot up to 4 pistols, 3 rifles, and at least 3 rounds of Skeet. When I was competing in Trap and Skeet from the mid '80s and through the '90s, I was shooting and reloading about 10,000 shotshells each year. Since 2000, I've dropped down to about 4,000 shotshells each year.

To help hold down the cost of my shotgun shooting, around 1984 I started making my own shot.

All of this background to say that I don't follow reloading recipes "to a T". I taylor my rifle and pistol reloads to maximum accurcy in my guns, not maximum velocity. Most of my shotgun shooting now is 3/4 oz 12 gauge loads at Skeet. For my shotshell reloads, I match the wad to the case (I only reload Win AA cases in all gauges), and usually pick a powder charge in the middle of range of powders. Especially now with the shortages of primers, I shoot any primer that I can get.