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Posted By: RockyRaab New Launch and an Update - 04/18/23
SpaceX is targeting Wednesday, April 19 at 8:27 a.m. ET for a Falcon 9 launch of 21 second-generation Starlink satellites to low-Earth orbit from Space Launch Complex 40 (SLC-40) at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida. If needed, there are additional launch opportunities the same day at 9:18, 10:08, 10:59, and 11:49 a.m. ET. Backup opportunities are also available Thursday.

The first stage booster supporting this mission previously launched SES-22, ispace’s HAKUTO-R Mission 1, Hispasat Amazonas Nexus, CRS-27, and three Starlink missions. Following stage separation, the first stage will land on the A Shortfall of Gravitas droneship, which will be stationed in the Atlantic Ocean.

A live webcast of this mission will begin about five minutes prior to liftoff HERE

The inaugural launch of the giant Starship that scrubbed on Monday is now tentatively set for Thursday at 8:28 am Central. The live webcast will begin about 45 minutes prior HERE
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/19/23
Now targeting 10:31 am Eastern for the Starlink launch.
🤞
Posted By: navlav8r Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/19/23
Sir, I would like to buy the biggest bottle rocket you have…..
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/19/23
If you'd settle for watching a rocket and sharing a bottle, I'm your man.
Posted By: BFaucett Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/19/23
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/19/23
T-5 minutes. Webcast is live.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/19/23
Once again, great launch, great landing and a good orbit.

It blows my mind that when I worked there, we could look forward to a launch maybe every six weeks to two months and now SpaceX has one just about every week.
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
It blows my mind that when I worked there, we could look forward to a launch maybe every six weeks to two months and now SpaceX has one just about every week.

SpaceX's stated goal is a 24 hour turnaround on a booster. I don't know where they are on that, or what the real demand is for launches, but that would be amazing. I think only Rocket Lab has recovered boosters but I don't think they've launched any again.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/19/23
They recently posted that they had achieved something like a two-week turnaround for a given booster. A one-day turnaround sounds like one of Musk's more flamboyant statements given that even with a land pad touchdown, they still have to do inspections and second stage/payload mating. That would also eliminate the pre-launch static firing that they now perform.

RoketLab may indeed become the second company to refly an orbital-class booster. They recover them now from the ocean (having abandoned the helicopter catch scheme) but they are amazed that there is so little salt water damage observed.
Posted By: navlav8r Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/19/23
Simply amazing 😊
Posted By: Houston_2 Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/19/23
Side note:

600 lb NASA satellite to crash to earth tonight with location presently unknown.
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
RoketLab may indeed become the second company to refly an orbital-class booster. They recover them now from the ocean (having abandoned the helicopter catch scheme) but they are amazed that there is so little salt water damage observed.

When you worked at Cape Canaveral did anyone think that one day they'd refly the rockets?

I'm a carpenter but this stuff is fascinating. I wonder if a while back people envisioned reusable boosters but they had to wait until the tech came together to make it happen.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/19/23
No, every engineer who voiced an opinion on it said that landing a booster and reusing it was impossible. Bear in mind, though, that this was 40 years ago. With the engineering knowledge they had at the time, it was not an unreasonable opinion. The "experts" once said that heavier-than-air flight was impossible, too. Then, that supersonic flight was impossible.

I am neither an engineer nor a scientist, but I'm going to stick with the "flying faster than light speed" thing, though.
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
No, every engineer who voiced an opinion on it said that landing a booster and reusing it was impossible.

Nice to know, thanks.

Even though we are 40 years away from that it is still an engineering marvel. I'd like to have been in the room when the first guy said "I think we can land one of these things....check out this plan."
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
I was in that room. The guy received raised eyebrows and sniggles.

The Shutttle had a Return To Launch Site abort mode that was a lot like the way SpaceX returns a booster to a land pad. But few thought it would work. It was never used so we'll never know.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
They are proceeding towards this morning's Starship Launch, with a window opening at 8:28 am Central.

Update: Fueling has begun for an 8:28 liftoff. Weather may be a concern.
Posted By: Muffin Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
T - 26:00

https://www.spacex.com/launches/mission/?missionId=starship-flight-test
This rocket needs to fly!
🤞🤞🤞👍🏻🤞🤞🤞
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Not a complete test, but a successful one because they got off the pad and got into flight.
Posted By: g5m Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Well that was something. Impressive liftoff.
Posted By: GAGoober Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
KaBoom!!!
Posted By: Muffin Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
Not a complete test, but a successful one because they got off the pad and got into flight.


With at least 6 engines shutdown................. WOW
Well ....
It flew..👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

And blew up.....🤦‍♂️😳🤦‍♂️

Looked like some of the engines were not working in that one veiw of them.
Thing kept spinning and losing altitude for the stage separation maneuver.

Gotta work on in the data they collected I geuss...
Still a huge thing getting it to fly.👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
They lost three engines at liftoff, I noticed, then more later. Loss of control came due to thrust imbalance, I assume.
Posted By: Dutch Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
And still better than the Phlaming Phallus, lol.

The number of engines shut down is a bit of a surprise to me. Let’s hope it’s not an indication of the reliability of the Raptor engine design.
Posted By: Steve Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Sure looked that way. Most of the failed engines were clustered together.

I was surprised it held together as it was tumbling.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Now looking at possible pad damage and fires. Not unexpected.
Posted By: Muffin Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
RR, It looked like it might have been 'shedding' an engine nozzle or two on the way up any thoughts????
Posted By: Blu_Cs Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
I went out to watch (the pad is about 30 miles north of me) and didn't see or hear a thing. It was pretty cloudy though.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Just watched a replay and agree that there may have been several engine issues, including at least one explosion on the way up. Lots of combustion changes, too.
They never tested these engines at full throttle during their static fire. Only about 50% throttle. Normally with a Falcon 9 the Static fire is full throttle. People on the forums on NASAspaceflight.com said the booster got the Starship within parameters but it didn't separate. The booster tried to boost back as it is supposed to but the Starship was still attached, thus the tumbling.
Posted By: JeffA Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Pretty cool to see that beast in the air.
Shame it didn't make it, a lot of work went into that.
Posted By: Steve Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Be interesting if they release the info on the failure.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
They will. On the separation, my thoughts are that it never got to the prescribed velocity and it was still trying to make up for the lost thrust. But, because the remaining thrust was assymetrical, it didn't have sufficient control.

They have not static fired the whole rocket at full thrust, but they have completed thousands of full thrust, full duration test firings of engines at their engine test facility. Including over-power tests to destruction. Intentional kabooms, in other words. That said, the dynamics of all those engines firing together creating harmonic vibrations and intense sound simply cannot be calculated.

A failed test flight is far better than a flawless one because now you know what needs to be fixed.
Posted By: Muffin Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
RR, any thoughts on why it launched with the reentry vanes deployed...
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
They designed it that way. They fold on the Falcon 9, but the Starship booster doesn't have to; it has more than enough thrust to make it unnecessary.
Posted By: Steve Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Read that because the vanes are mid ship (when stacked) they don't have much drag on the ship. If they are at the bottom then they need to be able to fold.
Posted By: JohnBurns Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Musk is not afraid to break a few eggs to make his space omlet.

Pretty impressive.

Just wish Slumlord could have been here to see it.
Posted By: Tedo Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
I was out in the Laguna Madre south of Port Mansfield and could hear the roar of the rocket during lift off from where we were. Couldn't see any of the lift off or subsequent explosion due to distance and cloud cover. We were approximately 25 miles away, hard to imagine how loud it must have been around the end of South Padre Island. Neat stuff that an individual could accomplish this.
Posted By: Jcubed Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Musk and governments (maybe bezos)...the only entities in world history to pay for multi-billion dollar fireworks!

Pretty neat!

Ymmv
Posted By: Craigster Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
It suffered a "rapid unscheduled disassembly". Reminds me of rifle kabooms.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technol...starship-explode-says-team-learned-a-lot
Kilo
Alpha
Bravo
Oscar
Oscar
Michael!

High dollar fireworks show!
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Well, that money was spent regardless of how successful it was. Both stages would have gone into the ocean regardless.
Posted By: Pat85 Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/20/23
Originally Posted by Jcubed
Musk and governments (maybe bezos)...the only entities in world history to pay for multi-billion dollar fireworks!

Pretty neat!

Ymmv

Musk figured the odds if the rocket completing the test was 50%. R&D is expensive.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/21/23
Update: Here is a pretty good amateur analysis of the flight with a few OMG photos...

Posted By: Tyrone Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/21/23
I guess we are back to buying rockets from those backward Russians.
Posted By: Steve Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/21/23
Originally Posted by Tyrone
I guess we are back to buying rockets from those backward Russians.



Falcon 9 rockets are still launching regularly. Russians are catching rides on those.

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/w...ia-uae-astronauts-space-station-97572673
Posted By: Muffin Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/21/23
Originally Posted by Tyrone
I guess we are back to buying rockets from those backward Russians.


????????
Posted By: navlav8r Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/21/23
The one shot at around a minute or so shows a man on the gantry where you can really see how big that sucker is.
Posted By: JeffA Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/22/23
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
Now looking at possible pad damage and fires. Not unexpected.

How much damage might be expected?

Despite the destruction in the air, there was also quite the show on the ground at Starbase. The launchpad was absolutely destroyed by Starship's powerful Super Heavy rocket. So much thrust was generated from the rocket's engines that the concrete pad was pretty much obliterated, sending chunks of rubble flying more than a quarter mile away and destroying a Dodge Caravan in the process.

[Linked Image from thedrive.com]

In almost perfect synchrony, two major chunks of debris collide with the minivan. One particularly pesky rock contacts the hatch, caving in the D-Pillar. As soon as the impact happens, the minivan lurches forward due to the force of the collision. The rear-most windows are blown out, along with at least one of the taillights, and the liftgate is turned into nothing more than twisted metal.

A second less obvious chunk isn't seen impacting the van, but it is seen exiting through the front bumper along with an explosion of fluid (presumably coolant from the radiator). By the end of the video, a pool of liquid has amassed under the front of the car.

Several smaller pieces of debris make contact with the van during the launch. A few pieces even hit the expensive-looking gear mounted to the top of the van and nearby cameras set up to film the launch.




The Dodge was parked in a lot off of Boca Chica Boulevard, around 1,400 feet away from the launch pad. Despite being behind a wall and positioned more than a quarter mile away from the launch site, the van and other surrounding camera gear were clobbered by crumbled rock.

And that's not even the farthest that chucks of rock traveled. In another video posted by SpaceX, you can see chunks of concrete splashing far off into the waters of nearby Boca Chica beach. A quick check on Google Maps estimates that some of the debris was slung around 2,000 feet away from the launchpad.

Fortunately, as far as we can tell, the van was unoccupied. All people are required to evacuate the area when a launch occurs due to the possibility of danger—debris or otherwise. That means that all of the cameras peppered around the lot are controlled remotely, and rightfully so, considering the huge chunks of stone that were sent flying at who-knows-how-fast-speeds managed to damage the van so catastrophically.

The Super Heavy rocket is not only SpaceX's most powerful rocket, but it's also the tallest, most powerful rocket the world has ever seen. The 33 main engines collectively generated just under 17 million pounds of thrust, around twice the output of NASA's SLS rocket used with the Artemis program. It's no wonder that a bit of carnage was seen at liftoff, given its impressive specs.

As for the Orbital Launch Mount—well, it looks like Starship did some excavating underneath it. The launch site's concrete slab was turned into rubble by the force of the rocket's engines and dug a crater. 
Posted By: Dutch Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/22/23
Sounds expensive…..
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/22/23
When SpaceX has the entire space market cornered, it'll seem like a cheap investment.
Posted By: BFaucett Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/22/23
Originally Posted by Tyrone
I guess we are back to buying rockets from those backward Russians.


Uh... no. I don't think you've been keeping up with SpaceX.




Note that this video is from back in 2018.
Posted By: BFaucett Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/22/23


SpaceX Falcon Heavy launches classified Space Force satellites, nails landings
video posted to YouTube on Nov 1, 2022
"A SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket launched the USSF-44 mission for the US Space Force on Nov. 1, 2022. The rocket lifted off from Launch Complex 39A at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida."
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/22/23
SpaceX has three launches scheduled for this upcoming week: Two Falcon 9s and a Falcon Heavy. Plus both NASA and PRIVATE manned launches this year.

The Starship launch did extensive damage to the pad. Musk is saying they'll launch another one in "a month or two" but engineers are not nearly as sanguine. They have been quoted as needing a year to fix the pad and prevent future damage.
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
SpaceX has three launches scheduled for this upcoming week: Two Falcon 9s and a Falcon Heavy. Plus both NASA and PRIVATE manned launches this year.

The Starship launch did extensive damage to the pad. Musk is saying they'll launch another one in "a month or two" but engineers are not nearly as sanguine. They have been quoted as needing a year to fix the pad and prevent future damage.

I would surmise that ha the pad not crumbled under the massive pressure from those engines, that this flight could have achieved all its goals. I can guarantee that damage was done to those engines on liftoff due to debris, yet it sill managed to clear the tower. They lost vector control about 60 seconds in, but the spacecraft showed itself to be durable in the 10 seconds of hell at the launchpad. They'll need to build a fire diverter and go again.
News blurb said they can't reach bedrock for the pad or the water table is high or something like that.
Showed pics of the pad area under engines.
Concrete blown completely away , rebar looked like spaghetti.
They did mention about the need for flame diverter stuff like others have said.

Almost like they need to drive some serious pilings under the reinforced concrete before they even pour it.

Like it had nothing but sand under it for a base??
And the pressure from lift off bulged it downward into a soft base then started the scouring effect concentrated in the bulge and then under the bottom of the concrete outward.

Lotta brownish color in that lift off footage.
Sand????


Launch pad failure seems to have caused alot of problems..

Don't know...
Just speculation on my part...
Posted By: stxhunter Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/22/23
Originally Posted by renegade50
News blurb said they can't reach bedrock for the pad or the water table is high or something like that.
Showed pics of the pad area under engines.
Concrete blown completely away , rebar looked like spaghetti.
They did mention about the need for flame diverter stuff like others have said.

Almost like they need to drive some serious pilings under the reinforced concrete before they even pour it.

Like it had nothing but sand under it for a base??
And the pressure from lift off bulged it downward into a soft base then started the scouring effect concentrated in the bulge and then under the bottom of the concrete outward.

Lotta brownish color in that lift off footage.
Sand????


Launch pad failure seems to have caused alot of problems..

Don't know...
Just speculation on my part...
It's on an Island.
Posted By: stxhunter Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/22/23
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Posted By: g5m Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/22/23
The whole thing is amazing.
Sort of like building racing engines- - - - -if we didn't blow one up on the dyno occasionally, we weren't pushing the envelope far enough. Watching a $15K small block Chevy hand grenade with zero laps on it wasn't fun, but it showed us the weak points to reinforce on the next one.
Originally Posted by stxhunter
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
They could probably drive pilings 100 200 ft deep and never hit bedrock on a coastal sand island like that.
Plenty of structures have been built on pilings when they can't get to bedrock.

They most def need to come up with a solution per the launch pad issues.
Maybe the simple diverter stuff and more stand off distance from ground level for the engines???

#notalaunchpadengineer🥴🥴🥴
Posted By: stxhunter Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/22/23
Originally Posted by renegade50
Originally Posted by stxhunter
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
They could probably drive pilings 100 200 ft deep and never hit bedrock on a coastal sand island like that.
Plenty of structures have been built on pilings when they can't get to bedrock.

They most def need to come up with a solution per the launch pad issues.
Maybe the simple diverter stuff and more stand off distance from ground level for the engines???

#notalaunchpadengineer🥴🥴🥴
I was going to do the carpeting in Ocean Tower but it never got that far. Building started sinking on one side.
Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Maryland (acting as Prime Demolition Contractor to the Property Owner, Ocean Tower, L.P. of Mission, Texas), performs the successful explosives felling of the 379 foot-9 inch tall, reinforced concrete Ocean Tower Condominium in South Padre Island, Texas at 9:00 AM on Sunday, December 13, 2009.

Originally Posted by stxhunter
Originally Posted by renegade50
Originally Posted by stxhunter
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
They could probably drive pilings 100 200 ft deep and never hit bedrock on a coastal sand island like that.
Plenty of structures have been built on pilings when they can't get to bedrock.

They most def need to come up with a solution per the launch pad issues.
Maybe the simple diverter stuff and more stand off distance from ground level for the engines???

#notalaunchpadengineer🥴🥴🥴
I was going to do the carpeting in Ocean Tower but it never got that far. Building started sinking on one side.
Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Maryland (acting as Prime Demolition Contractor to the Property Owner, Ocean Tower, L.P. of Mission, Texas), performs the successful explosives felling of the 379 foot-9 inch tall, reinforced concrete Ocean Tower Condominium in South Padre Island, Texas at 9:00 AM on Sunday, December 13, 2009.

Expensive engineering mistake/oversights...
Leaning tower of South Padre...
🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
Posted By: JeffA Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/22/23
[Linked Image from media.tenor.com][Linked Image from media.tenor.com]
Posted By: JeffA Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/23/23
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
SpaceX has three launches scheduled for this upcoming week: Two Falcon 9s and a Falcon Heavy. Plus both NASA and PRIVATE manned launches this year.

The Starship launch did extensive damage to the pad. Musk is saying they'll launch another one in "a month or two" but engineers are not nearly as sanguine. They have been quoted as needing a year to fix the pad and prevent future damage.

Originally Posted by Elon Musk
3 months ago, we started building a massive water-cooled, steel plate to go under the launch mount.

Wasn’t ready in time & we wrongly thought, based on static fire data, that Fondag would make it through 1 launch.

Looks like we can be ready to launch again in 1 to 2 months.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/23/23
There was a LOT more damage than just under the launch mount. There are deep dents in the propellant storage tanks, and as-yet-undiscovered damage to lots of other infrastructure.
Posted By: Dutch Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/23/23
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
There was a LOT more damage than just under the launch mount. There are deep dents in the propellant storage tanks, and as-yet-undiscovered damage to lots of other infrastructure.

Sounds expensive!

And by expensive, I mean a lot of time to fix.
Posted By: hicountry Re: New Launch and an Update - 04/23/23
Very surprised they didn't have exhaust deflection system

There were chunks of concrete flying everywhere. They found some over 2000 feet away.
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