I’m so very tired of propaganda (both sides, to be sure) but some of the incessant lies of the left grate the most.

“The rich only get richer”.

Uuhhh, no, matter of fact, they don’t. Less than 10% of the billionaires in this country had any level of generational wealth. All of the Vanderbilt fortune was gone sixty years after his death.

Anyway, interesting interview, at CNN of all places.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/25/investing/premarket-stocks-trading/index.html


It’s pretty easy to squander vast sums of money. Just ask the descendants of the wealthiest Americans.

In 1900, there were about 4,000 millionaires in the United States. If one family with $5 million back then invested it passively in the broader US stock market and spent from it reasonably (about 2% of their wealth each year), they would have $16 billion today. If a quarter of those families had done the same, there would be about 16,000 billionaire households today.

But there are only about 730 billionaires in the country, according to Forbes, and almost none of them inherited longstanding generational wealth. In fact, less than 10% of the current list of billionaires are descended from anyone on the first Forbes’ rich list, published in 1982.

So where did all that money go?

That’s what Victor Haghani, co-founder of wealth management firm Elm Partners, set out to find in his new book, “The Missing Billionaires,” co-authored with his colleague James White.

The answer, says Haghani, lies in the way people invest. They typically focus too much on which stocks to buy and sell and not enough on how much.

Haghani has firsthand experience. In the 1990s, he co-founded Long-Term Capital Management (LTCM) and took Wall Street by storm, pulling in returns of 30% a year on average.

Until he wasn’t.

In 1998, the highly leveraged LTCM lost $4.6 billion in less than four months as a crisis in Russia erupted. The Federal Reserve gathered top officials from the world’s most powerful banks and orchestrated a $3.65 billion recapitalization of the company, but the fund was eventually liquidated in 2000.
Haghani spoke to CNN’s “Before the Bell” about how retail investors can learn from his past mistakes, as well as what can be learned from the mistakes of America’s wealthiest families.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Before the Bell: 25 years on, what lessons can an investor still learn from the collapse of LTCM?

Victor Haghani: It’s all about this question of how much risk to take. In investing, you have to make two decisions: What do you want to buy or sell and how much of it you want to buy or sell.

LTCM had good investments but we got the “How much?” question wrong — we had too much of them. If you get the “What?” decision wrong and the sizing decision right, it’s still unfortunate and you’re going to lose money. But you’re still going to be able to continue on and find some better investments.

If you get the “How much?” decision wrong, it’s catastrophic. LTCM is a great case study in that.

How did America’s dynastic families make the same mistakes?

Cornelius Vanderbilt died in 1877 with $100 million, and he gave $95 million to his oldest son. By the 1950s, there wasn’t one Vanderbilt who was even a millionaire. That’s pretty incredible.

But it’s also fairly typical, and it goes back to this “How much?” question. The investment environment for the last 125 years couldn’t have been better. It was hard to not invest in things that had positive returns. But people got their sizing decisions wrong. They took on too much risk in their portfolios mostly by being way too concentrated in too few things and not having enough diversification.

Let’s say I guarantee an investor that they’re going to make an average annual return of 5%. Every year there’s going to be volatility — one year you’re going to be up 35% and the next year you’re going to be down 25%, but in the long term it will even out to 5%. It seems like a great deal, but risk starts to eat the return.

Let’s say you invest $100 and return 50% in one year. The next year you lose 50%. Your average return is zero, but your wealth actually went down to $75.

That risk is hurting your compound return. LTCM had a positive average return but experienced a 90% loss in 1998 and lost nearly all of our money.

These dynastic families also made bad spending decisions. They would set what seemed to be a sustainable spending policy at a point in time, and then the world changed and the value of their investment portfolio went down and all of a sudden that spending was no longer appropriate for the level of wealth that they had. Once that happens, wealth dissipation is fast.

The lesson here is that getting the size of your investment risk right is really important when it comes to the long term sustainability of your lifestyle and your spending.

So how do you decide how much risk to take?

The basic objective is to maximize your risk-adjusted outcomes, and some people are more risk averse than others.

You need to think about the expected return that the market is offering and then you need to work out what level of exposure to risky assets makes sense to you and what spending level will support you in a sustainable manner through the rest of your life — or beyond if you want to leave money to your kids.

Any other takeaways from these lost billionaires?

I don’t think that anybody can imagine that the very wealthy families today won’t be wealthy in 50 years. But the next 50 years will be different than the last. Human nature causes people to take on too much risk or spend too much and we may see the same pattern unfold in future decades.

Ultimately, the only thing that we can do with our wealth is to spend it or to give it away. And it’s probably a good thing for society that wealth is redistributed over time.

That is all well and good I guess...but who cares about the rich, really? I don't even know anybody who is rich by those standards.
Here is what I do know...the big players on Wall St (are they the rich? I guess so), by their piratical pursuit of more wealth have destroyed the American Dream/middle class. They offshored everything they could...what they couldn't off shore they imported illegal labor for over our deliberately porous borders (e-verify my ass). IMO the working middle class is what made America great...right up to the Vietnam war. It wasn't the moguls of industry or captains of finance, (the rich?) After that it was a rather steep slide as everything the rich wanted, they got by buying politicians left and right. Endless profitable wars in every corner of the globe, every single consumer thing in our daily lives imported, a tax code designed for the rich, all to accumulate wealth at the expense of the middle class. The rich are the Masai...we are the cows, and we are goddam near bled out.

The original.post made my head hurt and I never did figure it out.

Flintlocke nailed his point though.

I did recently read the millionaire next door and found the main point with that, is that most millionaires are new millionaires.

10-4

Flintlocke’s is the most important point in this thread.

The first generation earns it. The second generation spends it. The third generation loses it.

I've read that in the past in England only inherited money was considered honest. A self made man was highly suspect. It was tied to nobility where the heirs of anyone considered 'noble' was beyond reproach. Anyone else was below them and there was no way to climb the ladder. A man could work hard and smart all his life and become wealthy but the neighbors would never fully accept him as one of the 'better' people. A man could be a worthless drunken bum but if his daddy was rich, he ranked higher than the self made man.

and yet, were the rich not investing, not spending, things would be even worse for the average man. No rich folks means no factories, no jobs, not much for any of us. About 10% of the folks make about 90% of things happen. Rather than damn the rich, do something yourself to try and get there.

That sounds like using a lot of general statements in order to claim victim status. There are over 20 million millionaires in the US now. The vast majority are self made. These folks somehow found a way to overcome the challenges listed. Another way of looking at this might be: What, specifically, has Warren Buffet done that has prevented you from becoming wealthy? Really nothing. Amazon, Apple and Microsoft have enriched their founders while making our lives easier at the same time. This is not a zero sum game.

I don't know how old you are Mannlicher, I'm 77 and have lived the decline, I'm not going by outside information sources. With no education, I lived the American dream, a house, kids,, a good enough public education to do well in my chosen field, adequate healthcare at a price we could live with. The 'rich' who owned and financed the industries I worked in did well, I DID WELL and was content. My kids and their spouses are now, 40yrs later, working their tails off...and just squeaking by, their kids have been raised by the public school system, and it shows, because both parents have to work because of the tilted tax code. My kids and grandsons are living a markedly lower living standard (color tv is not a gauge of living standard, it's a sales tool, of course we all have one) than my generation. The conclusion of an embittered working class guy is: the Buffets, Kochs, Gates etc have sold the American middle class down the river for pure profit. Worship the wealthy if you wish.

So you honestly believe that some random man, or collection of men, prevented you from being wealthy?

Why give a chit what someone else thinks of you, especially a Brit?

Greg, I do NOT envy the wealthy, I have no DESIRE to be wealthy, (I see the way they behave, they do love sex with minors to a marked degree, it seems).
Let me condense my opinion as to simplify it for you, in the '60's and 70's, working a trade level job...I got a large helping of the American Pie. Fast forward 40 years, a tradesman and now his wife are working full time and do not approach the standard of living I experienced. The slice of the American Pie is now reduced to the molecular level. So Greg, where did the money go? I don't know, I'm not an economist, but I'd guess through the purchase of politicians, the extremely wealthy shaped the tax code so .gov gets a much bigger bite of my check. I'd guess that items, regardless of country of origin, are much more expensive now. As a logger in the summer of 1967 I made enough to pay cash for 5 months work for a Ford Bronco...try that now. Again, I do NOT envy wealth, I just want a slice of that pie, for gainful work accomplished.

Great post!!

First, I never accused you of being envious.

Second, there are many trade level working folks making six figures.

Third, the standard of living has gotten much better over the time period you described.

Fourth, tax rates are lower today than in the 60’s and 70’s.

There is plenty of money to be made here for those who are willing to earn it. I find it funny that Americans sit on the couch and bitch about not being able to get ahead while immigrants come here every day and become wealthy in a short time.

Just because your family hasn’t managed to do it doesn’t mean it cannot be done.

Greg, I give up, you win. Everything is wonderful...much better than in the past. Get out the vote for Joe for another 4.

LOL! I detest Joe Biden and would never vote for him. I also will not give him dominion over my life and future.

Don’t the Vanderbilt family still own the Biltmore?

They do. However, they have sold their lodge nw of Mt Shasta, near me, new owners are very secretive. The Hearst Estate south of Mt Shasta is about an hour+ away, they sold that. Who knows, maybe California is not a good place to have a vacation castle anymore? sarc.

A whole lotta truth in that post. At 52, I've witnessed the twilight of the American Dream, with a boyhood full of blue-collar security in a yet to be hollowed out small Midwestern town.

The phrase “it’s not fair” was invented so folks with expectations not rooted in reality could enter the conversation.

You are dead wrong on taxes. Taxes overall, are higher now than ever before. We pay a tax in some form to the tune of 60-70% of what we earn. Fuel tax, phone tax, property tax, insurance taxes, sales tax ect ect ect

I stand corrected, sir. I was only considering federal income taxes. Many thanks for pointing out my oversight. There are definitely more taxes now versus then, even thought the federal income tax rates are lower.

flintlocke: Big business, the military-industrial complex and all their middle-men leeches on society caused all this when they used their money made off of labor's backs to pass the Taft-Hartley Act shortly after WW2. This cut the nuts out of labor unions and allowed for the slave labor competition from Asia and the Right to Work (for less) laws facilitated the competition of cheap illegal immigrant labor flooding the market. Labor unions would have kept illegal immigrants from working in this country or at least kept it down to the most menial tasks. Strong labor unions would have kept tariffs in place that would have kept out foreign steel, cars, drugs, you name it.



I have sad news. The predatory moneyed interests have not a bit of concern if we live or die and sure don't mind if we end up in hovels such as those in Haiti and India. And now the lower level middle-men leeches are being squeezed out by big money. The big national banks have taken over the small lending the community banks did, Walmart ran the local stores out and now they are in squeeze by internet retailers that send stuff from huge warehouses. The little insurance offices are losing to the internet sales. Agricultural production is increasingly being bought by fewer and fewer buyers.

Your grandchildren will be lucky to have a roof over their heads in any kind of house they can call their own.

Try a free market once? Maybe?

Yes Jim, we used to have a lot more free market than we do now. When labor was castrated and big business was turned loose to form monopolies things went south.

If I sell cattle or timber, or deposit, or loan or borrow money my options are getting to be fewer and fewer. Big business loves to regulate the local bank, slaughterhouse, logging contractor, store, etc. out of business.

You must think that universal rent control would solve housing?

No, it’s not a zero sum game, but there is no denying that in the battle for the disposable income of the American public, the lower and middle incomes have taken some serious hits. By their own choices and actions, I hasten to add.

The “big four hits” as I see them.

1) easy credit on consumer goods. Credit cards, store credit, no interest for two years, etc, etc, etc. all of those marketing ploys make it easy, very easy, to outspend your income. And we haven’t taught our young how to deal with credit properly. As a consequence of OUR failure, as parents, to teach, the kids are paying 18% interest on that Chick Filet meal for the next 7 years.

2) 6 and 7 year car loans and car leases. Kids buying a new $60K car right out of college, because they “need a reliable car” , or even because “they deserve it”. That’s 8-10K in depreciation they are signing up for PER YEAR, PLUS INTEREST, PLUS INSURANCE. The dam car costs them north of $15K a year, and a couple often will have two of those bad boys sitting in the driveway!

3) the “3% dowm, 30 year Mortgage”. Guaranteed to have you gain very little equity the first 12 years, and then they move and DO IT AGAIN! 65 year olds with 15 years left on their mortgage!

4) insane college costs, fueled by insane student loan policies. Who in their right mind sends a kid into a well trained college “financial aid” office that knows EXACTLY which buttons to push to sway the kid to signup for a bunch of loans so they can live in the dorm with the gym and three food courts? We send our kids in that meat grinder and they come out with $120K in student loans and a degree in Gender Studies and we get all teary eyed at graduation because they made the Deans list……….

Predatory credit practices are even worse among the lower classes, I don’t even want to get started on them.

All this is on US, the parents. WE failed to teach our kids basic money skills. Our grand kids are being sent to day care because their mothers need to work to pay for the credit card bills, the student loans, the car payments and the mortgage on the McMansion. If we as parents had taken some time to teach our kids about money, taught them how to budget, how to save, how to invest…….. the middle class would be majority millionaires.

I figured thats what you meant. No worries

The lefty marxists always spout one pie economics. In a fair economic system the rich get richer, and so do the poor. That is the true history of the west.

Classic whiner azz 'fire thread.

fun to flush out the liberal thinkers, though.

Indeed.

You probably should have chosen another billionaire to make your point. The one you named personifies flintlocke's point.

His point was that billionaires buy politicians to make themselves wealthy. For example Warren Buffett bought some politicians to shut down the xl pipeline so he could make some cash with his railroad.

There's gotta be way more than 20 million millionaires in the US.

Did you read any of it?

I would say no as I didnt read much whining if any in this thread

There certainly have been whiner threads....but as you say....this one was pretty good!

Some excellent posts.

Jim Conrad, Any good conservative will believe in the power of free market capitalism. It's what made us the greatest society in the world. But, my point is...the market is no longer free...the mega corporations have tilted the playing field by buying politicians and passing laws to squeeze out competition.
I'll give you an example, a nearby landowner, at huge expense, did all the .gov permitting process, built a small fish friendly hydro generating facility on the Shasta River. Pacificorp (Warren Buffet) by law, was required to buy his power. For whatever reasons, Warren didn't like that, within 3 years, the Public Utilities Commission added a rule that exempted Pacificorp from buying power "if it was not in the best interests of the consumer". Free market my ass. You can apply that to every facet of business, transportation (look at the environmental squeeze on independent trucking), agriculture, building materials ( I can't get my full dimension quality lumber ok'd for building code). Jim the fix is in.

Yes...I know.


I brought it up during Covid. Lots here were buy and selling at huge price increases.


The TP and Purell hoarders were called free market heros.




WTF??? A shortage and hyper price increase caused by and enforced by GOVT?


THATS the free market?


Bullshit.


It's Chrony Capitalism and it's evil.

Starting a War for Profit after buying stock in companies that benefit from the war and accepting bribes from the same companies is evil.


I am not sure how the "capitalists" got the free market vs centrally planned economy so confused.


Probably we let them get away with it.

I'll take my theory a step further, money is made by imbalances in the free market, supply and demand, where there is a demand an enterpreneur will leap in and fill it...making a profit. But for the last 40 years our little helpers at .gov have dominated the market. By rules, regulation and tax law...they created the demand...and the crony's of .gov are there to fill it.
Example...Port of LA and Long Beach (highest freight volume in the US)...Calif law passed for zero emissions in the ports...No diesel powered trucks. So now Mr Trucker, you drop your load at a staging area outside the port, an electric truck or tug takes it into the port, for a price...big price. The electric truck industry/battery industry just got a huge shot in the arm, from .gov, picking winners and losers and actually creating and industry where none existed. We should wonder if the electric truck batteries are made in China, hell, maybe the trucks? In any case, my Transvestite Barbie doll playset has now doubled in price...thanks, we have the best govt money can buy.

Erik Prince does a good job of explaining this in the podcast I posted.

Crony capitalism isn't capitalism..... mix in a little socialism and that is what we have today, it won't end well....
But the "useful idiots" will certainly blame capitalism

What about the useful idiots that champion Chony capitalism as "real" capitalism?

That is why they are "idiots"

Hahaha! Fair point.



I don't care much how you make your money.....but it pisses me off when people try and pass a centrally planned economy off as a free market capitalist economy.


Hell...not even "free market". Eh Comrade?

Great answers guys. Spot on!

most millionaires are self made...what a joke. 90% of rich people stole the money or inherited from parents that stole money. govt admited to a trillion of covid money stolen so you can double that. hundreds of billions stolen in iraq and afghan. 100's of 1000's of contracts for public works half the money is stolen. all charities including wounded warriors 90% of the money stolen. bannon stole from the build the wall fund. the list is endless

Hahahaha!


Oh boy......

What? I thought we were preserving democracy in Ukraine.... lmao

flintlocke got the best take on this. big business along with the paid of govt crushes competition. US attacked the mother country Europe blowing up the pipelines so US gas producers could sell their gas for 400-700% more put sanctions on China for their chips trying to corner the market but China made their own for their new phone which is the most advanced chip. US cant compete hardly with anybody especially China who graduates millions of engineers chemists scientists etc while US graduates tens of thousands of lawyers many are negros that read at 4th grade level. US imports millions of street chitters from india to compete but it aint working. a diverse chithole like the US will never beat a homogenous society family orientated like China and Japan. in world history there was never aseptic tank of non whites that created a empire or successful country and the US will not be the first

It's not how much you make. It's how much you spend. I haven't heard much about the bird flu either.

I saw statistics last week that included all of the taxes at every level of government. The top 20% of income earners payed a smaller percent of income in taxes compared to the third 20%, who payed the highest percent of income in taxes. I don't know if that's fair or not. For sure the top 20% pay more in absolute dollar terms.

Completely wrong, but nice try. The Millionaire Next Door is actual research and shows just the opposite to be true. It's mostly about making choices. Read it if you really want to know. Or just go on playing the victim. Whatever makes you feel better.

The Tax Foundation says that the top 1% of earners paid 42% of all the income tax paid in 2020. The top 25% paid 89% of all the income taxes collected. Pretty sure the top guys are paying their fair share.

and you believe it? anybody that thinks like you either stole or inherited it. you people think you are talking to idiots. I worked 45 years framing roofing and doing concrete. never thought I would get rich but tired of hearing bullchit. so in your mind in order to become a millionaire is just a choice like nobody wants to get rich they want to be poor. now I will hear your story of how you had a paper route making a dollar a month worked 200 hours a week saved up and now own an intergalactical company

Working and saving is not enough to get wealthy, you have to learn to invest.... simple math will prove this out.
To me it sounds like you are making excuses for not being wealthy?

Total tactic of the left. Of course high earners are going to pay less of a percentage of total income than a upper middle earner does.

Most families with average incomes probably get more back due to earned income tax credit than they put in.

You certainly don't sound like an idiot but, then, I don't know you. It sounds like you worked hard and made a good life. You probably valued other things above the idea of accumulating wealth. Nothing wrong with that. But it was a decision you made. To be fair, sometimes bad health or extremely bad luck can lead to poverty. Most often, however, it is a series of decisions and behaviors that determine one's financial outcome.

WMR, I don't think that's how the math works, yes the very rich paid the lion's share of the tax collected...89% sounds like a lot...but if you think they are paying their share now...why did the swamp and the very rich fight the flat tax proposed by several prez candidates over the last few elections? Why did the swamp and the very rich go nuts at the idea of abolishing the 1,000,000 word IRS tax code? OK, I'll hazard a guess....the very rich wrote and amended the tax code by buying politicians. Worship the wealthy if you wish...I'll never change your mind.

What is “wealthy” ?
One million?

Just another half baked opinion by me ownself, but I'd say 10's of millions, stat: last year 23,500 households in the US averaged above 26 mill.
I have seen a lot of guys here on the fire post pictures of their 'estates'...they are damn sure millionaires. I have a friend that owns 9,000 acres of grazing and timber...he bummed me for a cheeseburger and fries a while back, LOL. He is a millionaire but doen't have any money until the calves are shipped.

If one lives in a reasonably prosperous area, owns your own home, and hasbeen putting money away for in a retirement account for a couple decades, one probably has a million dollars worth of assets.
If one has a farm or ranch and is not in a large a mount of debt, one probably has well over a million dollars in assets. A million dollars in assets just puts you firmly in the middle class, maybe upper half of the middle class.

My concern is with some of the negative effects of the increasingly concentrated wealth (billionaires) into a few hands, not the people that have a few million or even tens of millions.

you made a well thought out post. you are right never wanted to get rich I would have taken it if it came my way but I knew the work I was doing wasnt to get rich. didnt care about it cause I never met a rich person that wasnt a scumbag. Luck bad or good has a lot to do with being rich or poor

"never met a millionaire that wasn't a scumbag"..............poor you.
I know several that I would trust with my families well being in a heartbeat.

That being said, I also know folks with meager means I trust equally.

Hate is in high demand, so the media keeps trying to provide the supply. Please don't take the bait.

Low on cash and short on change,
but rich in love and other things.............JJ Grey

Correct. One should work in order to receive an income. One should also use a portion of that income to build other revenue streams that don’t require work.

Revenue streams.

That’s talk that gets bantered around a synagogue by guys like stickfight.

Or one could take the easy route. Piss away all their income, and blame somebody else because they are broke.

I was referring to things like stocks, cds, rental properties, royalties, etc.

The lie is the GOP's nearly century long story about Trickle Down Economics being beneficial to anyone except the wealthiest alone.... as Will Rogers (to whom coined the phrase) said, the policy is a joke. But more to the fact it is one that has never worked and one that never will.

Phil

I know a bunch of entrepreneurs who are self made millionaires. Built 5-75 million dollar companies from scratch. Took a ton of risk, worked their asses off and made something the market wanted.

Did they make mistakes? Hell yes. Did some of them go bankrupt on the way? Yes. Did they have normal lives outside of work? Probably not. Did they excel is a fixed market system? Yeah, and they beat the hell out of it.

They grabbed the American exceptionalism by the pussy and created an engine for American employment and prosperity for themselves and their employees.

I respect the hell out of them.

The commies will always try to restrict free market, that's a given. You just gotta out work them.

Yet the useful idiots that bought into the rich are greedy opportunist narrative fed to them by the Marxist left, would prefer to destroy those entrepreneurs, in the name of fairness.

And how many jobs did they create in the process? I've never worked for a broke man.

Well stated.
I know several of the same, self made millionaires worth $20 plus million. They worked their assets off, lived within their means, saved and invested for decades, retired at 60 or so with well into eight figures in the bank.
The ones I now were not born with a golden spoon in their mouth, quite the opposite.
Will everyone have that kind of success, of course not. Will the bitchers, complainers about the next guy, and whiners have that kind of success, not a chance

The average household income in the US is about $67,000 per year (some sources use higher numbers, but let’s pick a low one).

Let’s pretend you’re a little below average and make 50K a year. (Sorry, couldn’t help it….).
Let’s pretend you save 10% of your income and invest it in a Total Stock Market Index fund in a IRA, starting at age 24. Since it’s tax deferred, your NET cost will end up being about 7.5% of your income.

At 67, that IRA will be worth about $3.5 million.

Tell me again how hard it is to become wealthy in this country, I just love hearing it!

Fugg off Phil

How is the trickle up economy doing?

I learned about investing by age five from the first multimillionaire in the family aka Dad. He did it in the paper industry, while I chose retail. Both of us wound up with a substantial ownership position in our successful companies courtesy of stock options. Sticking with a solid job, and making good life choices, makes it pretty easy to accumulate wealth.

Collectively, tens of thousands, if not a hundred thousand. You don't build an entrepreneur success without bringing good people along with you.

I know we live in a unique area where the petro/chem industry is imbedded, but there is not a dang one of them I know retiring from the Shells, Exxons, CF Industries, Potash’s that ARE NOT millionaires.

Most these guys went to work out of high school spent 35-40 years showing up every day, staying sober and working.

No luck or family wealth involved.

Yep, I can't count the number of people I know mid to late career who have over a million in investments. It's not the number it was when I grew up.

It seems this site was a bit less whinier in years past? You own it, either up or down.

Being a millionaire today isn't that big of a deal. Most anyone with a decent paying job who chooses to live frugally and make some wise investments and property purchases could be worth $1 million long before retirement age, even without any inheritance. I don't know anyone who could win $1 million in the lottery and afford to stop working and live off of that for the rest of their lives. Unless they were in their 80's.

Like you I learned about money from my dad, except in the reverse. He borrowed a bunch of money for a farm investment, and it kept him broke most of his working life. He was little more than a serf to the bank.

I don’t know who first said it, but it’s something I think is at the heart of financial security: “those who do not understand interest pay it, those that do understand it, receive it.”

Of course, if you'd parked that Bronco in a barn and kept it pristine it'd be worth $80-170K now...OR, if you'd just chunked what you paid into an index fund it'd be worth near $1,000,000...OR if you'd sat on it a few years and when Microsoft had its IPO gone all in it'd be worth $11,000,000ish, with $900,000ish in dividends along for the ride...OR, you could have in vested it in Berkshire with Warren..........And it'd be worth around $63,000,000...


But again, of course, you didn't do that cuz the rich man wuz keepin' you down...

Your post should be required reading.

Wow...

Precisely!
I never understood why so many people hate successful folks. I guess it’s easier than acknowledging one’s own shortcomings.

Just bringing to the top...

For most average people, success requires a little risk, a little deferred gratification, a little living below your means, a little humility, and a whole bunch of determination!
Then, if and when it pays off , you get hated for your success....
The left has warped peoples minds and a major tool they use is "envy" don't be simple minded and fall for it!
Celebrate success!!!!!

A guy can criticize and have a different point of view, without it being "envy".

Many times that is a cop out, and evidence of a shallow person who's sense of self righteousness puts them in danger of falling off a very tall horse should it stumble.

Not aimed at you brother fubar, just an observation.

Every time finances come up it's the same old shidt rehashed over and over.

Some guys that are sitting pretty worked hard for it, some didn't. Some folks don't measure their success by how well the jews on wall street say their investments are coming along. Some do. Doesn't make either one a bad person.

The points about a guy not being able to live a decent middle class existence on what was once a pretty good job bears scrutiny.

In the words of poor, poor, misunderstood victim, "can't we all just get along?"

Thr key is not care what other people think. If they don't like you because of success, diligence,hard work, etc, it's time to move on.

Brother Gruff,
No offense taken. Your point is valid. Thing is there is a specific reason the middle class is being decimated and our money is being devalued.
The grifters doing it, are hiding under the guise of "envy" it's a tool they use to manipulate the masses to take the eye off of themselves....
This is America, and the American dream is to work hard, work honest and be a success, the grifters are stealing that from us!!!

It's not a matter of caring what others think anymore, they are coming for every successful person, inflation is not an abstract mistake, it's done and created on purpose.
The purpose is to steal the wealth of the productive....
Have you been paying attention to what the civil courts are attempting to do to Trumps business holdings in N.Y. ? make no mistake, they intend to take it all

Bingo.