It is something I am working on...

It will sell as a kit... i.e. forklift load on your trailer and YOU BUILD IT.

Just curious is there is a market.

The actual will be 20' x 20'...

Kitchen and bathroom?

Is that another workbench on the upper level?

Look up SBS Caribou cabin that's what they sell up here but beware people ask for instructions on how to put it together It ain't just for monkeys lol

I don’t think you’ll sell many as “homes” but as a “cabin” you should sell a lot. Looks well thought out.

Best of luck with the venture.

At fish camp

Sure...

The way I would design it (all REAL WOOD and heavy timber) would be a 20' x 20' free standing structural frame (BIG TIMBER).

Walls would be non load bearing... inside features such as lofts, bathrooms, kitchen etc. would be like "adding parts"... and 100% independent from the structure.

Hunting Cabin? Yes.

Primary residence, no.

HARD COPY ON THAT...

I will of course hire some dude from China to provide the "Instrsectionaling Manuwell"

Where is the cooker?

Pretty cool for a vacation home. I could see folks getting over their head during the construction process. Others would breeze right through. I bet they would sell pretty well with a decent marketing plan.

Merry Christmas, Leonard! The Nativity is on my Great Grandma’s old Hoosier cabinet this year, and looking good! Thanks again!

I'd live in it full time if I were not married. Since I am married it needs to be 3 times as large.

kwg

Maybe AirBNB for a weekend getaway. Far from my idea of a hunting or fishing camp

Friends in Montana are building and renting these, sorta a twist of rustic and ultramodern.
$100.00 a night.

I would try to stretch it out a little. 24x20.

There's a guy out here named Terry Foley who has a business selling kits like that. He does some major business, especially in the city, where good lots are few and far between. The quality is excellent.

Terry Foley kits

I like it. Maybe a deer camp version would be nice too, not quite as nicely finished inside.

Deliver it for $100 a square and hell yes.

My dog is going to love it.

$37.50 per SF is the mark for the structural Heavy Timber framework... 6" x 20" timbers et al.

How a man would choose to finish it out would be à la carte add-on.

FOB price...

Deluxe Fish Camp

There's a cult following for Tiny Houses.

I see some here, but mostly they are Air BNB type occupied.

Neighbor has two of them and keep them pretty rented out.

Assuming it's a sleeping area up in the loft, it'd be a solid idea. Make a kit to connect two of them with a breeze way.

My neighbor in WV has an Air B&B...

She only makes about $7k a month renting it... Hardly worth the trouble IMHO.

This^^^^

But given the need it could work for a fair period of time.

Making in more like 25x30 would be much better.

Kind of a neeat idea, but not really new, just smaller that most other kit houses.

MM

since I sleep in a tent and even sometimes not for 2-3 months of the year, yes. cabin would be nice.

I think you just have to find your market. some feel a 1500 sq foot house is too small. some too big. some want stuff wasted on design and looks, others want it wasted on being as efficient as can be.

for the most part most folks want way more than they need. thats for sure.

I'd live in it , but my wife wouldn't. There in lies the problem...........

I would take one for our place in northern Idaho.

That Sir... is the core of the design.

I am building one for my own needs... 12' columns so a loft on three sides at 7' makes it quite "deluxe".

Went down that road, seemed like good money but it's deceiving.

At the end of 5 brisk years with 5 units it penciled out to be no better money than long term leasing without all the BS involved.

Definitely heavier wear and 100s of times more management intensive.

You Sir... are the 1% or 2% of the housing market that I am trying to service.

It is something I can build with massive timbers (6" x 19")... and two men and a backhoe can stand up in a day.

The roof and walls are simple stuff because the structure itself is a massive beast.

I agree Jeff... $7k a month ain't worth the drama for me, but my neighbor in WV is comfortable with it.

Who am I to judge...

What foundation is to be under this structure?

Four concrete piers (by owner).

Or 6x6s...

Load bearing is quite nominal.

Yes that would include a 4x20 walk in gun room. What more does a guy NEED? Add a 28x40 heated garage and you are all set.

Ive Built a Ton of Those over The Years. Last 5-6 We Built Was In Gatlinburg.. My Guys Use To Call Them Stabbing Cabins..

Zero specs on his stuff... I would like to see what in the fugg he ships as a finished "home" for $4,050.

That's the ADU, 300 square feet. He's one of those guys who would like to sit down in person with his clients, or send prints and talk over the phone.

He's not a perfect builder, but he's a good dude.

Looks well laid out and I definitely see a market for it.

Or 20 x 28 or more. Rectangles are generally more usable than squares in the building world.

They'll be losing money at that rate.

Are these your ads all over Facebook ? or are you just using the AI cabin pic off FB as an example ?

About a dozen of these AI generated cabin interior pics started popping up when I joined a couple cabin and tiny home groups to see what people are building and to get some ideas for my timber framed cabin I'm gearing up to build this Spring/Summer at my shooting range, steel pilings went in last Sept but haven't started building yet due to out of town work all year

Which is fine because plans have changed dramatically from the original idea from last year, lot's of ideas on the board

Yes, I could.

But if you rent them out by the hour... maybe?

That's not 20x20. Looks like about 12ft wide. Makes it a bit hard to visualize as the layout would be much different. The pictured cottage looks like it's kind of lightweight construction and might be hard to heat. Heavier duty construction and less glass would make a better hunting camp. Looks more like a nice summer rental.

Inside of mine looks similar cash

I could see that as a vacation home or cabin. It would be nice if I could hire some local guy to put it up. One problem maybe: Too many windows, make it easy to break in when you're not in the vacation home.

If you are going to do a kit, may I suggest a size that could be assembled on various sized (decent size) flatbed trailers for those wanting to beat the tax man.

LOL.

The SwampLadyBoi spilled the beans on CashLessQueens bullshit.

Maybe.

Big family, some still at home, some coming to visit. Future grand babies, I'm thinking I'd need to stack 3 or 4 of those together.

If I get a wild streak and go buy a pice of land in the Intermountain rockies to hang out on a few months a year, maybe. Although I suspect it would soon be over run by the big family and it wouldn't be suitable.

About the right size for a bathroom (according to wife and her 20 minutes a day in there)) - I guess the rest would be on the owner....

Couple for farm hands would come in awfully handy.

I was exaggerating even, their current nightly is $99.

But that's off season rates, peak season goes for around $300

The more successful vacation rentals often have rates that follow the nearby resort hotel prices, it's their direct competition.

https://www.stonercreekcabins.com

You never know what a person's business plan might be.

I leased out a old sketchy farm house really cheap. It was on 20 acres and was huge but had a outhouse, no indoor toilet and it took a 4x4 to get up the driveway in the winter.

Rented it to the same dude for just over 20 years.

My rental rate was based on the property tax bill.

A lot of funky schit going on in those pictures...

It's like one of those find everything that's wrong games.

You'd be on your knees at the top of those stairs.

It appears that the backdoor must push that dangling light fixture outta the way so it don't hit you in the face when you walk in.

That was thoughtful.

You're on your own getting out.

Yep, sure would. Though the decision is dependent on location.

Like I said in my post, those are AI generated pics based on someones idea for a cabin interior, code violations be damned, it's art , lol !

Just completed a project out of my town where I lived for 7 months in a one room 16x20 dry cabin with no loft, wasn't too bad since I was working 6/10's & never there during the day, it was a warm box to sleep in and I was pulling in $3k a week

The best part was it's right by the Kenai River, I'd swing by every evening after work and kill 6 reds & by late August I was killing a few silvers also, filled up a 10 cf freezer to the top with clean vacuum sealed fillets, then started giving away fish because I had no room in the freezer, then in late Sept I ganked a nice bull moose . Def made living in a tiny one room cabin a good time, like a paid dream vacation where I got to fish n hunt !

Given those conditions ... I'd volunteer to go do it again !

That cabin is a beauty! Could we see some more photos? Next year I plan on building a hunting camp, either on our hunting club property or on a small piece of property we are in negotiations to buy in the Adirondacks, and I’m always looking for ideas.

Pretty sweet!

If you made it 7 months it must have been all ya really need.

I could make a go of it with 500sf +/-

I wouldn't have the loft, too much useless space to heat with the high ceilings required.
My experience has been the lofts are too hot or the lower level too cold, no in-between.

If I was going to waste the energy efficiency it'd be with bigger windows not high ceilings.

Utilizing sloped ground and cutting in a daylight basement to set the cabin on would work well for me. It'd give me room for a laundry and more storage to avoid cluttering up the finished living space.

Maybe even a little indoor all season shop space with a double door entry so I could bomb a quad or snow machine inside for maintenance if needed.

A little basement wood burner could go a long way at heating everything above.

Thanks for the intel Ben... 100% understand now. I trust your suggestion.

20x20 will be the largest...

Could do 16 x 20... or 16 x 16, but "...a 20’ square (400 sq. ft.) happens to be that magic number that’s minimum size for bank financing for some banks and maximum size (even with the loft) to qualify as a tiny home with relaxed code requirements under Virginia building code Appendix Q. Many uses, including primary mini home, accessory dwelling unit, detached office, family room wing, hunting / fishing lodge, etc., etc. "

It was a Fakebook pic grab... "as an example".

I hand draw and build stuff... No CGI guys in the shop...

There is a fella in Spain we use some (quite good actually), but this 20 x 20 concept is in very very early development.

The structure ("kit") will ship on a bumper-pull trailer.

The kit will will be 8 basic parts:

1) Four columns pre-mortised for the beams (columns will be 11" x 11" x 10 feet tall (12' tall for and extra $500)

2) Two 6"x19" beams (blind tenoned). 20' long with 8" tenons on each end.

3) Two 6"x19" beams (2' pass-thru tenoned). 24' long total.

Everything is pre-finished SYP.

Structural loading has about a 2,000% safety factor.

Walls will be SIPS (made to order as an upgrade)... OR stick build your own.

Trusses from 84 Lumber etc. are the responsibility of the owner/installer... OR custom trusses/roofing as an add-on.

The only reason I put up the Fakebook pic grab is so folks can kinda sorta see what our CGI guy will eventually render from a basic structural shell I am building now. Sorry if that confused anyone.

I love how you play for relevance in every post...

It must genuinely hurt... to be that brokedick on everything.

At that price even I could afford that and that size space would be ideal.

Too many windows for me though, I’d feel too vulnerable at night tho I do appreciate that walls are a false security.

You will make BANK whenever this comes to fruition.

I couldnt. Way too small. This ones 600sqft and could be layed out better...but still too small to live in...



Hell im single and id need least 1200 and a garage.

Would be fine for three people: Me, myself, and I... No way with a wife, kids, room mate.

I am at the age, I would prefer 600 sq ft on a one level. AND, at least a 30x40 shop. Attached, or via covered walkway.

A couple suggestions:
That bed is going to turn off a lot of buyers. For regular use, the bed needs to be accessible from both sides. That's too hard to make and you have to climb over your bed partner to get out. It's too inconvenient for full time use. The bed in our camp trailer is like that and it's a pain. We wouldn't buy it for just that reason.
Make the upstairs a viable option for the main bed. The lower floor makes a better office , guest bed, or something.

Outstanding Cash! I'd up it to 450-500 SF (as others have noted, rectangular more friendly). The perfect addition to your Tiny House is a 30x60 pole barn and call it Nirvana.

Seems like an extremely niche market. Poor folks would just convert a prebuilt shed, rich folks would just buy a prebuilt tiny house. Most tiny house people are not the do it yourself type.

The shed I build next to it is going to have to be bigger than that.

Add on an optional large outside shed roof covered porch space that could be turned into a three season space or screened if someone wanted. Would be a great cabin at that point and a nice house for a single guy (well, with a shop/garage)

Looks nice cash, is that rendering AI-generated?

Why not? Hell, I grew up in a craphole smaller than that 🤷‍♂️ It would certainly discourage clutter.

Where's the reloading bench, gun safe, powder/primer magazine, etc.???? Does it come with a workshop, a twin post lift, and a couple of acres to store projects in progress?

Growing up, I lived in places which would make that look like the lap of luxury, so yeah, I could live in it. My house is bigger (24x 44, including the 8x24 addition) but could be described as rustic. Such a build could be constructed of foam core panels, blocks, or could be built as a timber frame with whatever infill is desired; short logs, lightweight frame, whatever. Most people today, can't fit their ego into a small house; let alone their possessions. GD

CashisKing How much "cash" for that handsome little building?
GLWYS's.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I’m referring to a cabin that can be assembled onto say a 16’x7’ trailer and live there on the trailer so it is not assessed property tax wise.

In other words, trailer sized cabin kits for a few standard sized flatbeds

LOL.

Did you expect CashLessQueen to actually have built something in the real world?

He can't even build a virtual to scale model. Has to screen grab off BookofFaces and pretend.

If you want him to draft the plans for your She Shed, just ask him !

(Splurge and go with the fancy T1-11 siding)

I like it.

I have a small piece of land that I’d like to put a cabin on within the next two years. I looked at small cabins a couple of year ago in hopes to do something sooner. The biggest stumbling block is the lack of a bathroom for when a well and septic are eventually put in. No running water or bathroom are no-goes for bringing my wife.

A small cabin built with a layout that would offer a place to spend time in at a low up front cost and build time with easy add ons for a bathroom and possibly other rooms that didn’t look like afterthoughts. Something that would easily integrate plumbing later would be the holy grail IMO of small cabins.

The foundation cost was the hurdle for me. Digging a foundation for enclosed plumbing. I don’t think I’d want plumbing under an exposed pier foundation or trust a slab and burst pipe issues and then having to do it again with the addition of a bathroom and well/septic a few years later.

.
.
.



How To Build An Off-Grid Bathroom The Right Way

No idea... it was an internet grab.

What we are building and shipping would be a plumb and level structural frame (massively overbuilt).



11" x 11" columns, 6 x 19 beams.

The walls are only infill... i.e. ZERO load bearing.

These are the typical "blank" SIPS we make...

Doors, windows, siding, wood paneling... whatever.



OR...

Build your own on site.

Same with the roof

He’s almost mastered Lincoln Logs !!!

It is fascinating to observe your level of self-loathing...

You must drink a metric chit-ton of booze daily.

FUGG NO...

Only brokedicks use T1-11.

Burns on the other-hand is uber keen on a Whirlpool box...

XXXXXL of course.

LOOK...

Another Sock!

Imagine that!

My wife’s comment “that’s beautiful” and you need to walk around the bed.

Poor design. There is no room for a person to assist another in the event one cannot do it by themselves ! Almost every person will go through this !

The Structural Frame will sell at $15k FOB...

SIPS, timber roof (WP), HIP flooring in SPY, those are "As the owner requests" type stuff regarding pricing.

All wood will come mechanically distressed and UV Inhibitor varnished or UV Inhibitor epoxied...

Sorry Pal... I used that term "UV Inhibitor" again.

Oops.

So once you get to the point in life that you need someone to hold your dick while you pee you probably shouldn't be living 'off grid'.

If one was drunk that AI generated picture of a thing you will never build would look better.

Extra points for pictures of a trailer of scrap lumber and a childs pencil drawing.

Got a link to a website to order this Barbie dollhouse.

Oh my...

The fat drunk is begging for relevance...

AGAIN...

Imagine that...

That is about 7k BF of lumber (man on a fast horse guess).

Assuming $3.50 per BF that is $24.5k in materials... add doors and windows... concrete and deck... plus labor (maybe $25k-$35k more).

$50k-$60k is a very fair price for that build...

My goal is to beat the hell out of that number.

We will see.

Jeff, while I respect your opinion, I still don’t agree. The American Indians lived off grid and they were smart enough to build a big enough Tee Pee. Check on prices of care homes. If you can stay in your own home longer , I’ll take that deal !

Alan...

I do not believe what we are offering is suitable for your current brokedick needs.

Might I suggest a Motel 6?

They will keep the light on for ya.

You tryin' to be the next Jim Walter?

Of course not...

Jim Walter was brokedick.

For fuggs sake Jeff...

I live in a Jim Walter 'Islander' so does a few of my friends.
They were big in the day here locally.

Brokedick?

Is that what it means when a truck driver parlays an $895 shell house into a $2 billion conglomerate? And what does it imply for the building industry when this truck driver puts together a system which makes him one of the nation’s largest homebuilders, turning out identical houses the way Detroit turned out cars?

Cash, thanks for the kind words! If you want a safe bathroom for all ages, completely water proof entire bathroom floors where you can eliminate the curb on the shower. A person can then use a walker to get in. People fall in bathrooms, Brooken hips. Return fire expected!

To paraphrase the exact link you provided above...

"Jim Walter, Southern Prefabs, Goodbye to the brokedick home".

Is that not exactly... what the link says?

Seriously?

OK...

STFU

You win Jeff...

Keep bloviating...

Maybe PM Burns for some pointers.

Jim Walters was bullchit in every possible way... and you know it.

BTW... you did a great job hijacking a perfectly reasonable thread... 27 times.

Maybe Beav will send you a prize...

Interesting

YOU chose to stick you nose in this... in that humble bragging bullchit way.

Like Officer Obie and his twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one...

More interesting

John...

ALL threads you partake in eventually go to chit...

Burning the campfire to the ground is your purpose in life...

No?

Maybe it is time to post some 30 year old elk pics?

Because that is what you do.

The ONLY thing you do.

Old fat fuggs trying to remain relevant...

It is simply pathetic...

You gonna sell them at home depot? Because I think they already sell storage buildings....

I can dig it, Cash. I don't have any experience with the sips you showed, but I have a little imp experience. Did you look into something like what Kingspan offers?

https://www.kingspan.com/us/en/products/insulated-panel-systems/

Thanks for that... I will study on it.

That is very helpful commentary...

And I agree with it completely.

The building of Tiny Homes has become substandard... i.e. "A race to the bottom" kinda thing.

BUT... there is a market for folks that want to build stuff themselves (off-grid, separate building (gun room/work shop), hunting cabin et al).

That is the Market I am trying to sell to.

"A plumb, level and square heavy timber frame that you put up yourself (with a basic instruction manual)"... $15k FOB.

Build the walls, roof etc. yourself (we will provide specs on what trusses you will need to buy... how many wall studs etc. kinda thing).

OR...

Have us build them for you... à la carte.

We will even coordinate an "Assembly Crew" (for a fee) on any project.

The à la carte stuff is kinda nice BTW... https://www.baysidejoinery.com/timber-frames-and-sips-panels

Actual à la carte stuff we actually build...

I had no idea Home Depot sold Heavy Timber she sheds... Got a link?

So 15k for a basic frame ??? ish

Interesting product there at Bayside Joinery. We have a local company manufacturing solid beams from 2" material. I should say beams and panels. They're engineered with custom CNC Joinery. There's a few of these operations around, but I've helped hang out a couple of buildings using their products.

https://vaagentimbers.com/products

I think there's definitely a market for what you're doing. Looking forward to seeing how it progresses.

Burns is a burned out pedophile who thought he had inner circle connections but wasn't elite enough to be in with the cool "illuminated" crowd, nobody want's to claim the kid diddling fumducker

Kingspan make fantastic (IMP) insulated metal panels ... We've used them for a great number of projects over the years for our wall and roof panels, before Kingspan, there were API panels back in the early 2000's, the original "sandwich panels" as we call them in the field.. simply because of the similarity to the ice cream sandwich.... These days we have several mfg's who make the IMP (Insulated Metal Panels) IE sandwhich panels ... One of the better ones is MTL-Span ... I'm an mfg authorized installer for MTL-Span on Alaska's military bases, the USACE JBER military base where we have done $80 mil projects back in 2014-2016 .. And the Eielson AFB where we built the Hangars for thr F-35 Lightning 2 fighter jets, My current Federally funded project just completed was for the FAA, a small $3mil building that used the "R-Seal" wall and roof insulated panels that did not have the metal outer layers as per KingSpan & MTL-Span, R-Seal is simply a foam panel that is installed on the steel wall girts & roof purlins of building then a metal siding "skin" is layered on top ..... Really cool panels as they are feather light and only require two guys to install since they don't have the metal layers on both sides to add mass weight

R-Seal panels are made in Washington and if any of you need more info I can provide you info for direct contact ....

Anyway, the gist of this post is ... We had some 35 ft 8 inch long x 5" thick 36R roof panels left over after completion of the roofing, I notified the Owner/FAA and they wanted nothing to do with the extra roof panels and left it up to the contractor to remove all extra materials from the site, so I was stuck with them .... I chopped them up into equal lengths of 8 ft 10 3/4" .... All in all with drops & rips I have about 65 LF of (8' 10 3/4" height) wall coverage .... My shooting cabin walls/insulation for my 1k+ shooting range !!!!

Yayy !

Very slick! Not a product I know much about... Thank you for typing all that out and sharing the pics.

I was working on a HDPE SIP... foam filled. Slightly similar to Kingspan... kinda

VERY STRUCTURAL and it would take a nail/screw either side... so siding and drywall was a piece of cake after the layup...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z63VR9k5iCiHaJ2h9

CashisKing: Thank you very much for the quick comeback. I am impressed with that price and that building.
Thanks again - gets me thinking/planning.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Here is a Virginia company that manufactures panels:

https://thermasteelinc.com/

That's a hell of a write up, Swamp. Is there a particular panel that would be appropriate for something like Cash is building?

I am in the middle of a shipping container build.
I will probably be more per square feet and much smaller. An easy quick build would be interesting.
My primary concerns were easy of winterization and keeping vermin out.

I would be interested in watching one go together.

I built this in out yard during Covid, just before lumber prices spiked, added a bathroom later. The building is 12x16 plus a 4x9 bathroom and sleeping loft that holds a king bed. We sleep out there occasionally or when the folks are in town or the occasional guest will opt for the cabin.

Wife and I have a 600 s/f cabin as a rec place. She wants to sell the house in town and move in there. I told her one of us would be found dead within a month.

Agree! Crime seen would be at the bathroom

Shoulda done metal exterior , Brother Bob

it depends on his budget and time

Kingspan & MTL Span type of panels are expensive & require a framed shell to install the panels on, are heavy and can't be done solo, but once installed, you have very high R value insulated walls with exterior siding completed at the same time

R-Seal panels are considerably cheaper, very light and extremely simple to install but also require a framed building shell to attach to, then you need to cover with siding, usually light gauge metal siding, these type of panels are ideal for the do-it-yourselfer with limited or no help, the R value is very high and all seams are taped with the included 3M sticky flap on each panel, and rolls of tape are provided, so you get a vapor and water barrier at the same time

the SIP (Structural Insulated Panels) can be assembled as the building frame itself where you get an insulated building when done, will still need to install siding, are costly, can be heavy depending on length/size, would be difficult to work with solo, there are several different types of SIP panels on the market, most need an engineer to draw up building plans in order to build these panels for a Lego block type of installation

TOO much window for me, but I do like what I can see!

Thanks Swamplord.

Do I think there is a market for that? Hell yes. As I was contemplating what retirement would look like for me a few years ago, one of my options was to buy a parcel in the mountain West and have a small summer home on it. That cabin would have been very appealing as long as it had a restroom. At times too, I considered having something like that on my 10 acre camp in MS. With the latest run in the real estate market, I had to reshuffle my deck in a way that something like that doesn't fit in, but things change, and that could very well fit in again.

Mr. Sanford, this kit is obviously not for you.

Thanks...

Interesting concept.

Looks to be a one pound EPS product (without chasing all the specs).

Swamplord... It would be interesting to track some of what you are doing with a picture essay.

SIPs are a very smart way to build things IMHO vs. traditional stick... 99% because of the labor factor drama.

Same thing as robots taking over auto-making...

Or "Flippy" flipping hamburgers.

The problem (as I see it) with SIPs is the detailing of raceways... plumbing etc.

That stuff requires a level of complex pre-engineering... or at the very least... lots of pre-thinking.

I can probably figure out a "no frame required" method to use those SIPs. (i.e. drop me a PM or phone number if you like).

Looks to be 3+ pound EPS.

Very expensive product... EXCELLENT SCORE!

Finally getting around to building these 20x20 Cottages...

Summer beams built today...

Sure. Roughing it now days is a vintage black and white TV.

Sawbuck Ridgebeam... I am thinking...

Nice

Nice joinery. I’d like to see more

FWIW, Just now ran across this cabin south of Santa Fe on Santa Fe Craigslist It reminds me of OP’s original visualizations of his cabin.

https://santafe.craigslist.org/for/d/las-vegas-land-for-sale-studio-off-grid/7727849164.html

LAND FOR SALE STUDIO OFF GRID ON 30 acres - $185,000 (Cerrillos)

Cabin on 30 acres, horse shelter with fencing in Cerrillos New Mexico. Loft, shower and 20 ft shipping container for storage. Off grid living in beautiful Cerrillos Hill. Excellent internet. Email for appointments.

Lots of pics

Where do you put your guns, ammo. And reloading?