Good bud is looking for some old fashioned .30 cal RN solids. He's thinking 180's, 200's, 220's. He wants to shoot them slow on small critters to not tear them up.

I remember seeing those kinda bullets years ago, nothing recent. I think Barnes may have made some back in the day.

If anyone has any or knows where some are, please chime in.

BTW, he's a long time hunter, reloader and goes to Africa. I've about convinced him to join us here. Don't know what his handle will be.

Thanks,

DF

pretty sure I have a sleeve of 220's somewhere

He would do better with cast bullets. Do you know what cartridges?

That is exactly what I was thinking. If, as you stated he is wanting to shoot them slow, as to not tear critters up, then shooting a good hardcast makes a lot of sense.

FMJ spitzers should work too

I can't attest to the 30 cal but I always carried some Barnes solids for my 7mm mag when I went to Africa. They were great for things like Oribi and Steenbok. Dont know about the availability of them now but they were good.

Maybe he’ll register and chime in.

DF

Tell your buddy that loading jacketed bullets for low velocities is a good way to destroy a gun.

Barnes has recently made some pointed solids in 30 cal. I have some in 168gr. Not sure if they are still cataloged.

Barnes made some 250 grainers.

My friend in South Africa used to shoot some 220g round nose fmjs. He used them in an old 2 groove 1903 and said they were great for braining hips.

If going lower speed I'd go cast and powder coated. I cast some 200g flat nose .358 bullets that I'm going to use in my blr 358. I'll run then about 2000fps.

Bb

I have to ask. Why would it destroy a gun and at what velocity does this occur?

Run them slow enough and they stick in the barrel. It's shooting another round after that's happened that does the damage.

A cast is the way to go. A lot more profiles and a lot more predictable.

.30 caliber 180 grain gas checked hard cast.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176192734730?

Load them to around 2K FPS and drop them from the mold into icewater. Lube and size to .001" over bore diameter. Use an alloy of 19 LBS. of wheel weights and 1 LB. of 50/50 lead/tin bar solder. They will be as hard as woodpecker lips and drill nice round holes with no expansion. I've killed a truckload of deer using a similar load in a small ring 7.62 Spanish Mauser, but with a 130 grain GCHC. Close range head/neck shots- - - -no bloodshot meat, and DRT.

I think this is from P.O.Ackley's Volume 1...

" P.O. Ackerly discusses the subject of reduced loads. In definition, reduced loads means reducing powder amounts to less than starting loads. Disturbingly, the purpose of placing that discussion near the very front of the book is that under some situations, reduced loads can cause the gun being fired to detonate, blow up, or become severely damaged, often with the additional risk of damage to the shooter."

new Remington Core-Lokt ammo on the shelves in 30-06 with the 180 gr & 220 gr RN bullets along with the lighter weight spitzer bullets, got a box of each that I'm gonna run through the Garmin Xero chrono this weekend in my Rem700 mt rifle and an ADL

Cool.

Dad and his friends used to like the 220 load for elk hunting.

Just notice the word "solid" in the OP

CEB make 180 & 210 gr copper solid bullets

Cutting Edge Bullets Safari Solid

I tested Remington's 220-grain RN load in three rifles a few years back. I got 2,269 fps in a 20.5" Husqvarna 1640, 2,367 fps in a 22" Model 700 Remington, and 2,359 fps in a 23.625" Model 70 Classic. Ammo from the same box did 2,353 fps in the Model 70 when I later had it rebarreled with a 22" McGowen barrel.

I also tested the 180 RN load in the Model 70. I don't have the exact figures but I remember it doing almost exactly 2,700 fps in the old barrel.


Okie John

People shoot sub-sonic all the time with no issues. I have a 300 whisper. I guess if you go slow enough a bullet can stick whether it is lead or copper.

Absolutely true for copper or lead.

Exactly right. It's rather a lot harder to get lead to stick as opposed to jacketed.

Stuck bullets is one issue. Small charges in a large case is one that can result in a big surprise. There are methods to circumvent such things, but it is not as simple as it might seem to a rookie

It's time for Seafire to chime in about his Blue Dot loads.

AA5744 or H4895 with comercial powder coated 300 blackout bullets or plated 30-30 bullets at 1700 to 1850 should not expand much.

Shocked absolutely shocked swamplord promoting low powered loads? What gives? Mb

I’ve killed elk with them 180’s too!

Montana Bullet Works.

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/308-rcbs-82014-190gr-fn-gc/

I use moly coated gas checked 165gr cast bullets for subsonic loads in my ???! Use trail boss powder. Works good. They work good on pigs.
I’ve got some old Hornady 150 gr. Rnd nose left over. Used them for 30-30 years ago.
For subsonic I’d go with cast.

Ha !


how much do ya need to axe a black bear offa treestand over bait 30 yards away ?

I't would be like plugging one at 600 yards with a 7.82 Warbird

I have to ask… just what is “hard cast”? It is without definition but used by many who don’t know. I want my cast bullets soft, about 10BHN or so. Anyway, cast is a good suggestion.
Rick

i'd go with a Ranch Dog or a WFN/FN design.

https://bullshop.weebly.com/-30-caliber-cast-bullets.html

on grains of the bullet, depends what type of game he's going after. if it is groundhog or foxes, i'd go with 115gr Ranch Dog. if its lager i'd go with the 173gr (165gr) Ranch Dog.

stay away from cast pointed bullets, unless you want to track the game animal. i don't know about cast RN, as i have never used them.

What I find interesting is wives tales that live on and on. I agree 100% about shooting the wrong reduced load no matter the bullet material. Stay within reasonable loading guidelines and things will be fine.

What seems to a lifetime ago, I helped a couple of gentleman test early versions of what became the Cutting Edge Bullet Safari solids and Raptors. Back then we called them BBW 13s (Bastard Bullet Works) non-cons. That I know of I killed the only Cape buffalo with an early copper non-con which became the brass Raptor.

We did much of the testing to dispel the myth that monolithic solids damaged double rifle barrels which was the “belief” of many DR snobs until Woodleigh started producing one. Also much testing was done to determine the best meplat design, number of bands, and material.

Keep in mind I played a small role compared to the other gentleman, basically they sent me bullets and I loaded them to various velocities, fired, and recovered the bullets, reporting straight line penetration and other observations.

After all the above bs I just wrote one of the things my buddies did was to buy a strain gauge to test strain on the barrel, I think 5 inches from the muzzle. All types of bullets were tested. Guess what gave some of the highest readings, hard cast lead bullets with gas checks and soft cast lead with no gas checks. They surmised the lubricity of brass was butter than copper and lead.

At the end of the day, in bullets that really matter for hunting, there is far more to pressure or what may get stuck in the barrel than whether it is lead or copper or brass.

Could you be referring to wonky powder positioning causing wild pressure swings in a big case with little powder charges?

That would depend on the alloy. I run a base alloy that is 11 BH N air cooled and 19 BHN water dropped from the mold. Take that same bullet and heat it at 400l degrees for four or more hours, then water drop. Age hardened for a month of two and they might as well be solids. The secret is I add 1/3 cup of magnum or chilled #9 bird shot which it high in arsenic. It helps quite a bit strengthening the alloy.
PJ

I read you can load a bullet upside down ain’t tried it 🤷‍♂️

I powder coat and quench with added shot for the As content as well. Have you tried tracking the diameter change? I have some 405 gr hollew base bullets that started at .460 and are now .463+ after a few years and will not push through a Lee .460 die.

Yes. One of the first mistakes is using a powder brand associated with medium to slow burn rates for light loads. Another trick is to put some Dacron fluff in the case to hold the powder in place. It is mentioned quite a bit in the Lyman cast bullet manuals. Option 3 is to use, in addition, a small dose of fast burning powder.

Using hard cast for such projects is silly. I run anywhere from 900-2100 fps with 180 gr cast in a couple of .30 calibers, BHN 9-12 depending on load. Never leaded, accurate and I'll leave it at that.

One of the sidebars on this, assuming that some degree of precision is desired, is what load is required to obturate a given alloy on one part, and what is the max load a given alloy will tolerate before failing to contain the pressure. There are other factors that influence this, but it is a reasonable guideline.

Scroll down and read the fine print: http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm





50 yards with a Model 94 Trapper