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Posted By: Ken Howell Old crashes found - 09/10/07
The search for missing aviator Steve Fossett near Lake Tahoe has brought to attention eight (at last report) old crashes, some of which are decades old. I've heard ne'er a mumblin' word about how many of those were previously undiscovered. I wonder �

In 1959, a friend of mine in Alaska spotted some wreckage that he hadn't seen before, in an area where he'd flown very, very often. He assumed that it was a recent crash, so he landed right away and went to the wreckage.

It was an Air Corps P-51 or P-39 that had been lost on the old World War Two Red Star route � at least fourteen or fifteen years old. And not many years ago � 1990s, IIRC � someone found the previously undiscovered wreckage from a World War Two crash, in the timber on a mountain very close to a Montana highway. In both cases, IIRC, the pilots' skeletons were still in their seats.

In the West and far North, an airplane crash can go undiscovered for many years despite long, intense searches. Two crashes in Alaska � 1950s � took the lives of several people whom I knew, and as far as I know, they haven't been found yet.
Posted By: 340boy Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
With those poor guys that weren't found till years later, you could only hope that they died on impact.
frown
Posted By: alpinecrick Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
ONe canyon on the Uncompahgre Plateau holds the wreckage of four different aircraft. The canyon is in the path of the most obvious route to the west.

Often the case for private pilots in Southwest Colorado is the failure to recognize the reduced performance of single engine, normally aspirated aircraft at higher altitudes encountered in Southwestern Colorado (the highest region in North America).

A warm day, 4 passengers with luggage, and a Piper or Cessna single engine doesn't climb very fast, and a has ceiling lower than many mountian ridges--much less the higher peaks.

Failure to circle up to altitude, then turn and fly out of the valley, and misjudging the sloping shelf of the Uncompahgre Plateau, has been the undoing of many pilots from the flatlands.

One of the highest accidents rates in the nation is for aircraft flying out of my hometown airport.


Casey
Posted By: tronskie Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Years can change the facts on airplane crashes. Last winter I became involved in getting the true identity of a plane crash near Queen Valley, AZ. Queen Valley & the nearby RV park are made up by mostly snowbird seniors. Most everyone knew there was an airplane crash site about � mile from the RV park. Rumors were it was a twin seat trainer from the 40's & both pilots were killed. I bought the story, until I went up there with a couple of retired airline mechanics. They said by the size of the fuel lines, this was no prop plane. Then one of them found a barrel (20mm). 5 barrels were found! Clearly it was a fighter built sometime in the late 50's. A lot of parts were stamped with a Republic stamp. Republic made a 105 fighter but no record of one crashing in AZ! I finally contacted arizonawrecks.com One of a group people who have a hobby of finding old airplane wrecks . He & his buddies had been looking for this wreck for about 5 years. Accident report was off by one degree! True identity of plane- 105B crashed July 29 ,1960 & the pilot parachuted safety!
Posted By: Ken Howell Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Originally Posted by Ken Howell
� Two crashes in Alaska � 1950s � took the lives of several people whom I knew, and as far as I know, they haven't been found yet.


I have to correct myself (did a little more looking to refresh and correct my memory).

The wreckage of one of those two Alaska crashes was much later found.

Clarence Rhode was the regional director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service in Alaska when he disappeared in 1959. He was flying the USF&WS Grumman Goose, number N720. With him were his son Jack and wildlife agent Stan Frederickson. I knew Stan fairly well but had met the Rhodes only briefly. The older Rhode had photographed me feeding parka squirrels in the Alaska Range a couple of years before.

On their last flight, they stopped where I was working on an Arctic archaeological dig on Ogotoruk Creek, and I talked with them just before they continued and were lost. One of the largest and most extensive searches in Alaska history failed to find the wreckage of their Goose. In 1978 � nineteen years after they were lost � hikers in the Brooks Range found the wreckage.

Later, in another crash in 1972 (not 1950s, as I misremembered and misstated above), two high-ranking members of Congress � House majority leader Hale Boggs (D-LA) and Congressman Nick Begich (D-AK), were lost, along with Begich�s aide Russell Brown, and pilot Don Jonz. They disappeared on a political-campaign flight from Anchorage to Juneau, as they were (supposedly) approaching the Chugach mountain range in SE Alaska, in a Cessna 310 (registration number N1812H).

I�d known Don Jonz years before, just after he�d changed his name from Jones to Jonz, and I knew no one (except him) who had the slightest use for him. He was fond of saying that true mastery of the air lay in knowing how to break the rules. If he filed a flight plan for that flight, I wouldn�t be surprised to find that he deviated from it, and tried to fly in instrument weather when he should�ve been on the ground.

Boggs was taken to the airport for the first leg of the trip by a young Democrat (Bill Clinton!) who later appointed widow Lindy Boggs as US ambassador to the Vatican. (She�d already served eighteen years in the House after her husband disappeared.)

Boggs also served on the Warren Commission in the investigation of the assassination of John F Kennedy. Conspiracy theorists have reported that Boggs wasn't happy with the commission's findings and had been pushing for the investigation to be reopened. But his daughter, Cokie Roberts, the TV reporter, said on a radio talk show in 2004 that he had no problem with the commission's findings and was not pushing for reopening the investigation.

The last I've heard is that Hale Boggs, Nick Begich, Don Jonz, and Russ Brown have yet to be found.
Posted By: MattO Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
I'm not much of a history or wreck fanatic, but my wife turned me onto the book "Shadow Divers" over the summer. I listened to the tape version while travelling. It's the true story of the discovery, and subsequent quest to identify, a u-boat wreck off the coast of New Jersey. IIRC, the wreck was discovered in the early 90s. Like I wrote above, I'm not normally into such things, but this book fascinated me.
Posted By: curdog4570 Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Seems to me that air searches for wrecked planes are usually sucessful in the first couple of days - or not at all . Those not found from the air in that time frame are usually found by folks on the ground by accident .

I don't have any facts to back this up , it just seems to be that way to me .
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
I'm amazed that there isn't already a plethora of conspiracy theories about the Fossett disappearance. There's certainly enough to feed such: he's a high-tech aircraft designer, multi-millionaire, and high-profile capitalist who was flying alone in Nevada. So we may soon be regaled with many oddball theories such as UFO abductions, collision with secret military craft, so-called Area 51 nonsense and more.
Posted By: 2crow Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Look at the case of the college student who just recently drove off of the road and rolled his ride in a ditch, right off of the main highway. He lay there for a week, undiscovered, as his own father drove past the spot how many times. As I understand it, had he not crawled to the edge of the road and moved his elbow, he might still yet be there in that didtch.

Looking for an aircraft that my well have been blown into who knows how many small pieces upon impact in that wide open land might prove to be a down right endless task.
Posted By: Barak's Womn Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Fascinating stuff, Ken. Fascinating stuff...

Penny
Posted By: Ron_T Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
It's kinda NOT surprising that they didn't find Sen. Hale Boggs, Congressman Nick Begich, Russell Brown, and pilot Don Jonz.

By 1972, we weren't yet required by the FAA ("Friendly" grin Aviation Agency - HA... rightttttt crazy !~!~! ) to have working ELT's (Emergency Locator Transmitters) in our aircraft... not even in the local-flying, so-called "puddle-jumpers" or "bug squashers" like my 7KCAB Citabria.

Of course, with all the mountains in Alaska, it still would have been a "tough search" even if they had ELT's installed which, now that I think about it, might have been REQUIRED by 1972.

As I recall, the "bush-pilots" flying in Alaska had to have working ELTs on board BEFORE we had to have them in the "Lower 48"!

Does anyone remember whether or not this was true?
Posted By: Teal Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Shadow Divers is being made into a movie for release next year.

I am currently on my 7th reading of the book. I also have the NOVA program from PBS that covers the discovery. "Hitler's Lost Sub". Probably watched that about 50 times.

John Chatterton and Richie Kohler are big heroes of mine, outstanding divers and for them to spend the tens of thousands of dollars to identify the U-Who due to a duty they felt to the war dead - speaks volumes about their character. Chatterton being a combat medic as well.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Actually the ELT was probably useless because they probably crashed over glacially colored saltwater in Prince William Sound.

The worst part about Begich was leaving a son Mark that is our current mayor. He is unbelieveably crooked and even signed on with the Mayor of NY to control guns! He has aspiriations of higher office and I fear him. The other son Nick is at least not a politician.
art

Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
340
"With those poor guys that weren't found till years later, you could only hope that they died on impact."

Actually a friend crashed with a couple others aboard on a hanging glacier at the head of a box canyon. There was no way anyone could reach them and they remain there today. There was someone keying the mike until the battery died over a day later.
art
Posted By: Piper1 Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
IIRC the ELT mandate came about in 1973 after the Boggs crash.

Piper
Posted By: Ron_T Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Ahhhhhhhhhh..... sooooooooo..... smile

Thanx, Piper 1 ! smile
Posted By: Dave@az Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Has anyone heard,you can go to "Google Earth" and help search for the crash site?
Posted By: StubbleDuck Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
I'm amazed that there isn't already a plethora of conspiracy theories about the Fossett disappearance. There's certainly enough to feed such: he's a high-tech aircraft designer, multi-millionaire, and high-profile capitalist who was flying alone in Nevada. So we may soon be regaled with many oddball theories such as UFO abductions, collision with secret military craft, so-called Area 51 nonsense and more.

"Conspiracy theories" of any kind haven't crossed my mind till now.

The dumbest thing about Fossett's disappearance (in my opinion), is that he failed to file a flight plan and even mumble to anyone in earshot where he was going and when he expected to land. Especially with his education, experience and scientific background.

Absolutely incredulous! Hope they find him alive, and thoroughly embarrassed.
Posted By: 5sdad Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Anyone remember the B-24 that coasted in and landed itself in the desert (Egypt?) after the crew had bailed out? Seems like they found it in the late 50's. Was it the "Lady Be Good?" I also remember a movie (probably made for tv) in the early 70s that dealt with the crew of a WWII bomber that had glided in in the desert. The crew was hanging around the plane. As the story developed, we figured out that it was "today" and the crew were ghosts. When the plane is discovered, each crew member would fade away as the recovery team found and bagged his remains. Was an interesting movie - would like to see it again. Best, John
Posted By: DaveR Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Originally Posted by Ken Howell
Originally Posted by Ken Howell
� Two crashes in Alaska � 1950s � took the lives of several people whom I knew, and as far as I know, they haven't been found yet.


I have to correct myself (did a little more looking to refresh and correct my memory).

The wreckage of one of those two Alaska crashes was much later found.

Clarence Rhode was the regional director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service in Alaska when he disappeared in 1959. He was flying the USF&WS Grumman Goose, number N720. With him were his son Jack and wildlife agent Stan Frederickson. I knew Stan fairly well but had met the Rhodes only briefly. The older Rhode had photographed me feeding parka squirrels in the Alaska Range a couple of years before.

On their last flight, they stopped where I was working on an Arctic archaeological dig on Ogotoruk Creek, and I talked with them just before they continued and were lost. One of the largest and most extensive searches in Alaska history failed to find the wreckage of their Goose. In 1978 � nineteen years after they were lost � hikers in the Brooks Range found the wreckage.



I read about that one as I was following this guy doing his Brooks Range Traverse last year who happened upon the wreckage.

[Linked Image]

And the before pics of the same plane with Clarence Rhode.

[Linked Image]

Quote
This plane wreck was a sad, dramatic sight. It was a twin-engine plane that flew into the mountainside just short of a pass. The wreckage was a time capsule of sorts. An old book still contained clearly legible citations for wildlife violations, written in the 50s. There were boots, canned food and singed clothing. The curled propellers showed the engines had been running when the plane hit. It was easy to imagine what had happened: the pilot flying up the narrowing valley and encountering low clouds so he couldn't see ahead and with not enough room to turn around. He was only about 100 vertical feet from the top of the pass. Update: I was fascinated to learn the story of this wreckage from the folks at ANWR. In 1958, Clarence Rhode, director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service in Alaska, disappeared on a patrol flight along with his son Jack and Stanley Fredericksen, a game agent. Rhode was a widely respected man, and the largest search ever conducted in Alaska was launched. Up to 28 aircraft and 260 people were involved. The mystery of the disappearance of this Grumman Goose N-720 wasn't solved until backpackers discovered the wreckage in 1979. You can see a photo of Mr. Rhode and this aircraft here


Brooks Range Traverse

Interesting stuff to be sure.


Posted By: Ken Howell Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
Some day, I'm going to run some numbers to show the comparison between
(a) seeing crash wreckage from the air
and
(b) seeing some correspondingly small object on the carpet across a room (and even some times when you're standing right over it).

I've flown air-drop over the tundra in Alaska, and one thing that still impresses me is how unnoticeably small men and man-made objects smaller than houses look from the air, without roads or such to tell you where to look for 'em.

Rocky, you know, from your flying in 'Nam and Laos. Itty-bitty, aren't they, when they don't have smoke to tell you where they are?
Posted By: JacquesLaRami Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
I suppose it's a known crash, at least I've known about it since the 70s, but there is one SW of Redlodge Montana just of of Beartooth pass in Sunlight Basin Wyoming. Within a few miles of Granite Lake. I don't know much about identifying aircraft, but it was a jet. I've never been clear up to the main crash sight but I have looked over an engine that lays in the woods in one of my old elk hunting areas. There is another north of Shell Canyon in the Bighorns, but I'm pretty sure this one is known, you can see it from the highway.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: Old crashes found - 09/10/07
They sure are, Ken. I was specially trained in how to both look and see - that's what a FAC does for half his living: finding stuff.

But it's still almost impossible even if humans are waving and moving. Immobile objects are much harder. I was blessed with extremely good eyesight, and once saw a single footprint in wet grass from 1,500 feet. But that was really an aberration due more to sun angle than eyes or skill.

Unless you see sun glint off metal, finding a crash in desert/rocky terrain is one of the hardest things you can imagine. There won't be an "airplane" just as there aren't any "postcard deer" in the woods; you have to train yourself to see odd angles, shapes, short straight lines, parts of things, even parts of parts. It takes an extremely skilled and highly trained observer; which is why so many crashes never do get found.
Posted By: arkypete Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
Ken
Holland is reclaiming some of the Zidderzee (SP) and finding aircraft from WWII, sometimes with the aircrew still in them.
They also are finding lots of armaments that were jetisoned there.
Jim
Posted By: olblue Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
The History channel has a show on the Bogg's - Begich search.They have it on from time to time. It's called something like the Alaska Triangle. fairly interesting as I know some of the searchers that are still active CAP members. --- Mel
Posted By: Stoneybroke Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
History channel had a program on the hazards of Alaska flying. According to the narrator, Jonz did not file a flight plan. Their depiction of Jonz was unflattering to say the least. He did tell the tower that he ELT aboard.
Posted By: Ken Howell Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
Don Jonz was at or around the university (Fairbanks) when I was there. There was also a sweet young heiress, whose name escapes my fluttery memory right now, whose beauty made all the guys' blood run a bit faster and warmer. Jonz married her and announced that he was going to be another Richard Halliburton, flying the world in his "Flying Carpet." But I heard later that he went through his wife's fortune sooner than he expected, dumped her, and had to go back to flying for a living. He loved to fly and was a capable aviator but a sorry piece of � er � work as a man. He richly deserved to go, but it's a shame that he had to take others with him.

I assume that they and that twin Cessna are at the bottom of a deep body of water.

(And now I'm going to get a load of flak from a couple of self-anointed, vicarious Campfire consciences for revealing some of the truth about a very unadmirable dead guy.)
Posted By: gophergunner Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
I've always been fascinated with the history of ship and plane wrecks. Every time I see one of these stories about a WWII plane being found somewhere it piques my interest. It's amazing in this day and age that these wrecks from decades ago are still showing up.
Posted By: superdave Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
I do quite a bit of flying, well, riding in the right seat anyway, across UT, NV, and CO. These stories sure make a guy think. Western NV is the closest thing I've seen to Afghanistan in the U.S. I wonder what else they'll find out there...
SD
Posted By: Ken Howell Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
Thanks, Rocky!

IIRC, the bright glint of sunlight on metal was the single first clue to all the discoveries of aircraft wreckage that were spotted from the air � during an air search or by accident years later. Some � again, IIRC � were otherwise obscured by brush or forest canopies. It doesn't take a very big piece of shiny metal to fling a reflection aloft (like a foot print in wet grass, eh, Rocky?).

It took me two days on each of my first long-range hunts to learn to see the antelope and Coues deer that my experienced partners were seeing and trying to get me to see. When I finally saw what I was looking at, not one was a calendar painting or nearly as noticeable as I'd been looking for it to be. One Arizona guide spotted the lower legs of a Coues deer that was far too far away for me to see the deer when it walked clear of the screening brush. Even his outfitter boss was impressed.
Posted By: gophergunner Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
My wife's great uncle crewed on B-24's during WWII and missed a flight on his bird, for some reason. The plane went down on that mission with all hands unaccounted for. No one saw the plane go down, and no records, either Axis or Allied made mention of seeing the plane go down. The mission was to a marshalling yard deep behing German lines, and the anti-aircraft units and fighter groups from that area had no record of engaging the plane. It's like it just vanished off the face of the earth. No part of the plane has ever been recovered. Makes one wonder what really happened. Exploded in flight from AA fire? Shot down by a pilot who died on the same mission and didn't get a chance to file his report? His was the only plane from that group that didn't return. They were attacked twice on the way in by 109's and 190's and had a running gun battle coming back with a group of Messerschmidt 110's. They did claim one 109 shot down, and one probable as well as one 110 shot down.
Posted By: Idaho_Shooter Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
On a related note. I saw a program on one of the documentary channels a while back. I wish I could remember the details more clearly.

I think the site of the crash was a glacier in Argentina. No crash was ever found even though they had a very good idea of the location. It appeared as if the glacier had swallowed all evidence.

Well, it seems that was exactly the case, as about sixty years later the glacier started spitting airplane parts and frozen remains from its face. As the ice moved down the valley and melted, it delivered up the crash. But it was no longer anywhere near the surface.

Perhaps someone else has seen the same program and can remember how deeply the crash had been buried,
Posted By: Ken Howell Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
� I saw a program on one of the documentary channels a while back. � I think the site of the crash was a glacier in Argentina. No crash was ever found even though they had a very good idea of the location. It appeared as if the glacier had swallowed all evidence.

Well, it seems that was exactly the case, as about sixty years later the glacier started spitting airplane parts and frozen remains from its face. As the ice moved down the valley and melted, it delivered up the crash. But it was no longer anywhere near the surface. �


This one?

Quote
� on August 2, 1947, the Stardust, with eleven people on board took from Buenos Aires for Santiago. It was a routine flight for the British South American Airways plane. The weather was deteriorating and later would approach blizzard conditions, but it wasn�t so bad that the captain, Reginald Cook thought he needed to cancel the flight.

At 5:33 p.m. the radio operator Dennis Harmer sent a message to the Santiago Tower that they were slightly behind schedule but they believed they would arrive at the airfield in about twelve minutes. Then, at 5:41, Harmer made the last transmission. It said, "ETA Santiago, 17:45 hours. Stendec."

In the Santiago Tower, the operator didn�t understand the last word and asked that it be repeated. It was. Twice. Stendec. No one knew what that meant. It was also the last word ever heard from the aircraft. It had simply vanished from the face of the Earth.

Because of a snow storm, the search for the aircraft couldn�t begin until August 3. At first, given the position provided by the aircraft, the search centered near Santiago. When nothing was found there, the search was expanded but no trace of the aircraft was found. At least none was found in 1953.

Nearly forty-seven years later, in January, 2000, five mountaineers, climbing the rugged Mount Tupungato in Argentina, discovered the wreckage of an old aircraft. They also found the remains of three people. The Argentine Army sent an expedition into the area, which is so rugged that the soldiers had to hike the last few miles because even the burros were unable to make it. Using serial numbers from the engines and other bits of wreckage, they identified the aircraft as the long missing Stardust.

The aircraft, not fifty miles from Santiago as the pilots had believed and still over the Andes, was caught in the snow. The pilot, thinking he was approaching Santiago, but with no visual evidence outside the cockpit, began to descend. Unfortunately, their navigation was off and rather than being over the relatively flat ground near the Santiago airport, were still in the mountains. Tragically, they flew into the side of a mountain glacier. The show covered the wreckage during the night, concealing it from the aerial search along the flight route. Then, slowly the glacier swallowed all remnants of the aircraft. For fifty years that wreckage "flowed" downhill with the glacier. It finally flowed to the surface a couple of miles down the mountain. It was here, on a plateau, the wreckage was exposed and discovered.

The army expedition uncovered more wreckage, retrieved the remains of most of the victims some of whom were identified using DNA techniques, and confirmed the identity of the aircraft. The mystery of the Stardust had been solved... Well, most of it. No one has ever figured out what the strange word sent by Harmer meant. It is the only mystery about the crash that remains.


Photo of the "Stardust"
Posted By: BW Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
This kid, the pilot in the white long sleeve t-shirt, and his 5 passengers disappeared from the earth the day after I took this picture...

[Linked Image]

I was also an A&P mechanic for this company at the time. Good kid, very sad deal. frown
Posted By: JRowan Re: Old crashes found - 09/11/07
Over on the ATV forum I go to, they always talk about the plane wreckage that is somewhere along the Bunce School House trail in Colorado. There are a couple of sites with some info about plane wrecks since 1962. One is http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp and another for CO & WY is http://coloradowreckchasing.tripod.com/index.html
Posted By: Remington40x Re: Old crashes found - 09/12/07
My dad worked for six months in Alaska wiring BMEWs (ballistic missile early warning system) sites for Western Electric in 1960. One of the sites was a place called "Big Mountain", which was 10 miles from the nearest indian village and more than 100 from any civilization to speak of. When the Corps of Engineers went in to bulldoze the mountaintop to lay foundations for the site, they found a WWII cargo plane full of medical personnel a few miles away. The remains were still in the wreckage. The plane had gone missing in 1943 and laid on the tundra until some guy out for a hike stumbled across it.

Dad has photos of the wreckage in his slides from that job stint.
Posted By: Idaho_Shooter Re: Old crashes found - 09/12/07
Originally Posted by Ken Howell
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
� I saw a program on one of the documentary channels a while back. � I think the site of the crash was a glacier in Argentina. No crash was ever found even though they had a very good idea of the location. It appeared as if the glacier had swallowed all evidence.

Well, it seems that was exactly the case, as about sixty years later the glacier started spitting airplane parts and frozen remains from its face. As the ice moved down the valley and melted, it delivered up the crash. But it was no longer anywhere near the surface. �


This one?

Quote
� on August 2, 1947, the Stardust, with eleven people on board took from Buenos Aires for Santiago. It was a routine flight for the British South American Airways plane. The weather was deteriorating and later would approach blizzard conditions, but it wasn�t so bad that the captain, Reginald Cook thought he needed to cancel the flight.

At 5:33 p.m. the radio operator Dennis Harmer sent a message to the Santiago Tower that they were slightly behind schedule but they believed they would arrive at the airfield in about twelve minutes. Then, at 5:41, Harmer made the last transmission. It said, "ETA Santiago, 17:45 hours. Stendec."

In the Santiago Tower, the operator didn�t understand the last word and asked that it be repeated. It was. Twice. Stendec. No one knew what that meant. It was also the last word ever heard from the aircraft. It had simply vanished from the face of the Earth.

Because of a snow storm, the search for the aircraft couldn�t begin until August 3. At first, given the position provided by the aircraft, the search centered near Santiago. When nothing was found there, the search was expanded but no trace of the aircraft was found. At least none was found in 1953.

Nearly forty-seven years later, in January, 2000, five mountaineers, climbing the rugged Mount Tupungato in Argentina, discovered the wreckage of an old aircraft. They also found the remains of three people. The Argentine Army sent an expedition into the area, which is so rugged that the soldiers had to hike the last few miles because even the burros were unable to make it. Using serial numbers from the engines and other bits of wreckage, they identified the aircraft as the long missing Stardust.

The aircraft, not fifty miles from Santiago as the pilots had believed and still over the Andes, was caught in the snow. The pilot, thinking he was approaching Santiago, but with no visual evidence outside the cockpit, began to descend. Unfortunately, their navigation was off and rather than being over the relatively flat ground near the Santiago airport, were still in the mountains. Tragically, they flew into the side of a mountain glacier. The show covered the wreckage during the night, concealing it from the aerial search along the flight route. Then, slowly the glacier swallowed all remnants of the aircraft. For fifty years that wreckage "flowed" downhill with the glacier. It finally flowed to the surface a couple of miles down the mountain. It was here, on a plateau, the wreckage was exposed and discovered.

The army expedition uncovered more wreckage, retrieved the remains of most of the victims some of whom were identified using DNA techniques, and confirmed the identity of the aircraft. The mystery of the Stardust had been solved... Well, most of it. No one has ever figured out what the strange word sent by Harmer meant. It is the only mystery about the crash that remains.


Photo of the "Stardust"


Ken,

It sounds like it must be the same crash. I must have misremembered the part about the wreckage appearing far down in the strata of the glacier.
Posted By: 5sdad Re: Old crashes found - 09/12/07
It seems like not too long ago someone thought that they had found the wreckage of Heisman trohpy winner Nile Kinnick's plane but it turned out to not be his.
Posted By: ShootingLady Re: Old crashes found - 09/12/07
Any sign of Fossett yet?
Posted By: Buck_ Re: Old crashes found - 09/12/07
Originally Posted by DaveR
Brooks Range Traverse

Interesting stuff to be sure.




I was surprised to come across this thread. I'm the guy who came across that Grumman Goose wreck referenced above.

One of the things I find interesting is this wreck was quite noticeable as a wreck to me from perhaps a mile away, and of course I wasn't even looking for a wreck. It was on an open rock slide, and was clearly metal and in the middle of nowhere and so obviously was an aircraft of some sort. There are a number of reasons the mystery of that crash wasn't solved earlier, and among them were that nobody had a good idea of exactly where to look, that area is REALLY off the beaten path, and it's probable other people saw it from the air and simply assumed it was a known and reported crash site. A buddy of mine and his brother found an old plane crash while Dall sheep hunting in Alaska and told me about it. They decided to report it although I was pretty sure someone must know about it already. I was wrong and it solved another long-missing aircraft mystery.

Posted By: luv2safari Re: Old crashes found - 09/12/07
Originally Posted by superdave
I do quite a bit of flying, well, riding in the right seat anyway, across UT, NV, and CO. These stories sure make a guy think. Western NV is the closest thing I've seen to Afghanistan in the U.S. I wonder what else they'll find out there...
SD


Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa, living in an abandoned silver mine... We have a lot of "get lost" out here. whistle
Posted By: StubbleDuck Re: Old crashes found - 09/12/07
Originally Posted by ShootingLady
Any sign of Fossett yet?

Lots of interesting incidents, personal experiences, heresay's and anecdotal stories .....

But I'd also like to know how the search for Fossett is going. Anyone heard?

Anyone here thinks he's going to be found alive? At this point I think I'll be surprised if he is. I've had an empty feeling about the whole mess since he was first declared missing.

As for old crashes, weren't the bodies of at least two missing WWII aviators (Army Air Corps types) found this summer and last summer in California? Alledgedly they were found at a very high elevation in a VERY REMOTE area that doesn't totally thaw and might have even been in a glacier since the early forties.

Anyone?
Posted By: Ken Howell Re: Old crashes found - 09/12/07
The latest on Fossett:

http://news.google.com/news?q=Steve+Fossett&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADBF&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=news_result&resnum=4&ct=title
Posted By: BAGTIC Re: Old crashes found - 09/13/07
It is not the highest region in North America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_mountains_of_North_America
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