The Veterans Disarmament Act passed the Senate and the House
-- both times WITHOUT A RECORDED VOTE. That is, the bill
passed by Unanimous Consent, and was then transmitted to the White House.

The Veterans Disarmament Act has passed with the help of the NRA! The NRA has totally failed us here ! If I was considering which PRO-Gun organization to join now, It would not be the NRA! Wayne LaPierre and Chris Cox have let us down and they need to go! They have sold out to Chuck Schumer and we have let them do it!
The bill is being praised by the National Rifle Association and the Brady Campaign. What the bill does is to lock in -- statutorily -huge numbers of additional law-abiding Americans who will now be denied the right to own a firearm.

The efforts begun during the Clinton Presidency to disarm battle-scarred veterans -- promoted by the Brady Anti-Gun Campaign -- is illegal and morally reprehensible but Section 101(c)(1)(C) of this bill, HR 2640, would rubber-stamp those illegal actions. Over 140,000 law-abiding veterans would be statutorily barred from possessing firearms.

Organizations opposing this terrible legislation included The American Legion, Gun Owners of America and The Order of The Purple Heart!

If you are asked by new shooters if they should join the NRA, say "NO!!" Tell them to join the Gun Owners of America or any other Pro-Gun organization.

Check here.

Naw now, it's all okay. Some prominent members here have said it is, so it's gotta be. You don't want mental defectives having guns do you? You know, mental defectives that spank their kids and shoot folks for their country. Just take another Prozac and watch some more TV and don't forget to vote for Hillary, Obama, Rudy, Fred or Huck...your choice.

Unanimous consent my @$$.
Someone with PTSD or who goes funny in combat can be perfectly functional and law-abiding in civilian life, which is certainly less stressful. I don't see any other civil liberties such as the First or the right to vote going down in flames here...I wonder if that's a violation of the 14th equal protection clause.
Unanimous consent. Shameful. Par for the course, too.

Looks like on this and the one on the 1st Amendment's recent ransacking by Congress that few care. Those who don't jealously guard their rights will lose them.

Good advice, Bluedot72.

Tell 'em to vote for Ron Paul, too.




GOA ....

"The only no-compromise gun lobby in Washington."
-Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS
BEFORE THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
June 13, 2007


Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to H.R. 2640, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) Improvement Amendments Act, and I urge caution.

In my opinion, H.R. 2640 is a flagrantly unconstitutional expansion of restriction on the exercise of the right to bear arms protected under the Second Amendment.

H.R. 2640 also seriously undermines the privacy rights of all Americans--gun owners and non-gun owners alike--by creating and expanding massive federal government databases, including medical and other private records of every American.

H.R. 2640 illustrates how placing restrictions on the exercise of one right--in this case, the right to bear arms--inevitably leads to expanded restriction on other rights as well. In an effort to make the Brady background check on gun purchases more efficient, H.R. 2640 pressures states and mandates federal agencies to dump massive amounts of information about the private lives of all Americans into a central federal government database.

Among the information that must be submitted to the database are medical, psychological, and drug treatment records that have traditionally been considered protected from disclosure under the physician-patient relationship, as well as records related to misdemeanor domestic violence. While supporters of H.R. 2640 say that there are restrictions on the use of this personal information, such restrictions did not stop the well-publicized IRS and FBI files privacy abuses by both Democratic and Republican administrations. Neither have such restrictions prevented children from being barred from flights because their names appeared on the massive terrorist watch list. We should not trick ourselves into believing that we can pick and choose which part of the Bill of Rights we support.

I urge my colleagues to join me in opposing this bill.

Mr. Speaker, in addition, the NICS Improvement Amendments Act illustrates how laws creating new infringements on liberty often also impose large financial burdens on taxpayers. In just its first three years of operation, the bill authorizes new yearly spending of $375 million plus additional spending ''as may be necessary.'' This new spending is not offset by any decrease in other government spending.

Thank you for posting that Walker. This is why the RP's of the world scare the snarf out of the Status Quo--including the NRA, who time to time supports the biggest bonehead plays.......

The path to bigger government is two pronged:
1. Offer a financial and physical safety net to everybody for every imaginable circumstance.

And...
2. Criminalize everybody else.


This is why we need somebody who will step outside of the status quo--and challenge it.



Casey

Don't confuse fear for pity.

I guess there is room on the planet for the "chicken-littles" though!

Methinks we ALL need to step outside of the status quo and challenge it.

Mike

And I'm doing my darndest to accomplish just that!

Casey

Lost me there........


Casey

In reference to your premise that the RP's in the world scare anybody. I mean...you've really gotta be kidding.

RP is an harmless non-entity and merely a side-show to the real world of politics. He has provided a fun diversion from the serious stuff though, I'll grant you that. You'll realize that truth soon enough. Sorry it will have to be by the 2 by 4 method though.

I'll say it every time someone wants to toot their horn. NRA= NOT RELEVANT ANYMORE!!!! Under the this new legislation there is a very real possibility that I, who have been a gun owner since I was 7 years old, may not be able to replace my guns it I ever become fit again.

Dang Isaac,
Your atop your game this am
Merry Xmas to ya.

good read about the NRA:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/14/AR2007121401328.html

And the same to you and your lovely wife Jed.

Oh, I know what RP's chances are. But the chances of him influencing the debate increase every day he stays in the race. The fact that he continues to raise money is undoubtedly raising some eyebrows within the Status Quo--which candidate will attempt to co-opt his message?

Or even a small chance is still a chance. What happens if enough supporters convince him to run independent after the national convention ignores his message? I think that is where the biggest and most effective chance is.

Don't worry Isaac, my expectations are realistic--I won't be heartbroke when RP doesn't sweep the convention --just vindicated the Status Quo is alive and well......

I'll let the rest of you political more-of-the-same pundits spend their time obssesing whether the various hopefuls have religious messages in the background or wear the correct tie that day........which continues to demonstrate there is so little difference between the "mainstream" candidates that the Status Quoists actually have to worry about things like that.


Casey

Sad, but true.


See more of Ron Paul's writings on gun control and the 2nd Amendment
here ---------> Ron Paul Library

He's been fighting to save our gun rights for many years.

Horse-hockey!

The NRA got Congress to mandate, for the first time, that people who got on the prohibited list by mistake could get off, and also the government is not allowed to charge "fees" to gradually make gun ownership illegal.

And 83,000 veterans, thanks to the NRA, now have a chance to get off the prohibited list (they were already on) and clear their records.

You are the one, Bluedot, who seems to want 83,000 veterans to be stabbed in the back, judging from your opposition to the NRA.

Even the Washington Post reported, "the powerful gun lobby won significant concessions from Democratic negotiators in weeks of painstaking talks. Individuals with minor infractions in their pasts could petition their states to have their names removed from the federal database, and about 83,000 military veterans, put into the system by the Department of Veterans Affairs in 2000 for alleged mental health reasons, would have a chance to clean their records. The federal government would be permanently barred from charging gun buyers or sellers a fee for their background checks. In addition, faulty records such as duplicative names or expunged convictions would have to be scrubbed from the database."

The NRA does all the heavy lifting for our side. GOA has about as much chance of getting legislation passed as Ron Paul has of becoming president.

Not so quick on Ron Paul... I don't even know of him!
Always remember, if Jimmy Carter got elected, anyone can!

Indy, well yeah, but these guys live in a parallel universe, so its best just to let them rant. They're just talking to each other.

This bill has been the subject of prior post wars....GOA as usual is clueless. The NRA as usual protected the interest of gun owners. Anybody who want to can search this from the last time.

lol With those delusions you better make sure you've got your guns buried.

To Issac, you never cease to amaze. Your sense of arrogance and hypocrisy concerning the political arena is astounding. Have you ever held office or even run for one? I'm talking about small-time stuff even. Have you ever been elected to a Water Board (pardon the pun), Town Council, Mayor, City Commissioner, whatever? Are you actually on Fred's election committee? I mean, you gotta be such a bigtime playuh tellin' us hicks what will fly and what won't that either you are somebody or you're a behind-the-scenes guy making those backroom deals like old Bob Dole.

How very Christian of you, Ethan.

You think so?

Didn't know running for office was a requisite to address political issues. Have you? If not, who are you to voice an opinion.

Get a grip on that low self esteem, dude. I've never used the term hick in my life nor have I ever suggested another man was a hick.

I'm in touch with folks on FT's campaign most each and every day. His primary operations in Va(and nationally for that matter) are in Alexandria and McClean, all within minutes of my office. No, I have never run for office and it's kinda goofy that you believe opinions must first be premised upon that criterion. I guess noone on the Campfire should address politics when viewed from your clouded mind!

Ethan has apparently never sent his congressman a letter either....even on a matter of apparently overriding importance to him, like the right to buy a handgun over in Missouri. go figure

Spinmeister Steve, I used that as an example. Be advised that I've sent numerous e-mails, letters, and made phone calls to my elected state and federal officials on issues which concerned me. The last was SB 1959 which I voiced concerns about to both Pat Roberts and Sam Brownback-neither of which I've heard back from. Eventually Roberts will get back to me on it. I've heard from him before. I don't know if Brownback will or not. But again, get as far away from the true issue as possible and confuse the confusable by attacking the messenger as opposed to focusing on the message.

I'd check the email address you're using....you'll almost always get a form letter back saying Senator Monkeypoo always appreciates hearing from his constituents, blah blah blah

Where did I say it was. Yes, I have successfully. I'm just like you. I don't set myself up to be any better or worse. Then again I'm not on here constantly and shrilly proclaiming how this issue or that is simply juvenile to even address. I don't constantly tell people that turning back the clock on loss of freedoms is unrealistic and even stupid. Get it?



lol Now you're a Psychologist too? Kansans and Missourians are typically referred to as Hicks.



Why?



Go back and find where I said that and quote me.



I am not quick to take offense but I find it passing strange that you see yourself as such an expert. I have absolutely no problem in your trying to become more active in politics-I think that's great, although I'd rather see somebody with a bit more positive attitude towards actually getting back some of the freedoms we've lost. Then again you have to be astute enough to see that we've lost them first. I have no doubt that Steve will want to use this as a straw man to draw attention away from the original post, but there it is anyway.

We don't need more people getting involved who say nothing can be done, like Steve said about repeal of the GCA. We need more people who have ideas on how to do it or who are at least smart enough to listen to those who do.

Go back and read your last post. The inference was either easily gleened or you were just babbling....again.

As to why some of FT's operations are in Alexandria and McClean ask him yourself. You correspond with politicians via e-mail, right?

It is hoped that you are smart enough to listen to those who know how to do it but I haven't seen anything to suggest that's true just yet!

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but I for one will continue to support the NRA. Simply look back in history & see when gun owners would be without the influence of the NRA. All gun issues are very complex today & some compromise may be necessary to continue to protect gun ownership as much as possible. Without the NRA the bill passed could have been much, much worse. Have a great holiday.

Before you all jump on the this is bad bandwagon read the bill in question please, it acctually helps people who have been or may be put on the no gun list in error because of old info. The way the insatnt check system was once you were on it you could never get off. It also addresses the problem of people with mental illnesses not being on it because of medical privacy issues. Just because a vet, or any one else was treated at somtime for PTSD or any other problem is not going to instantly put them on the no gun list and even if they get there by mistake there is a procedure for getting off. So lest not all fly off the handle and go lynching the NRA

this is just the GOA moonbats barking again......they see this as a power feud with the NRA, and their feelings are hurt that nobody pays any attention to GOA. Their mischaracterizations of the bill have been covered before. Its a benefit to gun owners, not a detriment.

exactly!!!

Forgive the lapse - been off-board for a few hours.

Ethan, when I said your comment was "Christian," it was not a compliment. I meant that you seemingly take a position not unlike a Koran-thumper: Everyone is entitled to an opinion - as long as it's a letter-perfect copy of your opinion. Or you'll rip/saw someone's head off.

Which is what you seem to do if and when anyone disagrees with you.

In short, how very opposite the "Christian" attitude you try to project.

Jezzus, once every two weeks someone reposts the same idiocy from the GOA which has no basis in fact.

The GOA is as bad as the anti-gunners. They live by spinning and lying in an effort to try and make themselves relevant. They aren't. They make us look bad because their lies are easily used against us.

The NRA does the work protecting us and the GOA runs around running it's mouth like the retarded cousin, pissing off moderates that we need to sympathize with us and undermining the people that are doing the real work.

I wish someone would do a search before they post the same idiocy that has been hashed out 6 times in the last 6 months on this very board.

This Bill changes nothing insofar as what your rights to own a gun are. It changes how those that already are legally barred, are reported. You cannot now or in the future (if this law passes) under Federal law, be prohibited from purchasing a firearm just because of a Doctor's diagnosis. You can only be barred if the diagnosis results in a court order determinating incompetency. It's been that way for years and will be that way whether this passes or not.

Oh no, it's me who should apologize. I thought perhaps you'd understand some sarcasm.

My positions are nothing like a Muslim's. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I've not ripped anyone's head off on these boards. As far as heated debates, these aren't even halfway towards the "hot" setting on my oven. I don't have any memory of having crossed swords with you, but maybe I have and it's a function of exactly how much it meant to me... At any rate, Issac and I have been talking about this stuff for some time now. I wasn't aware you were following the ongoing saga.

I don't try to project any attitude. I'm a Christian. It's that simple. I, like everybody else on this planet except for Jesus Himself, am imperfect. I don't make any bones about it and have never claimed otherwise. I'll say this once for everybody...my sig line is a Christmas thing and simply well wishes for everybody here on the fire-including you and Issac. The other part of it is a well-deserved tribute to God and not meant to raise me up in any way. I do not purport to be a Super Christian or anything like that. I'm a man better than some and worse than others and any talent I have was given me by God so who am I to take an inordinate amount of pride in it?

I'm sorry if you see the sig line as something meaning that I am trying to put myself above everybody else because it isn't intended that way OR perhaps you see it as I should no longer be entitled to an opinion that some may see as negative.

I meant everything I said.

Don't see any need to go back and re-read anything. What you infer from my posts may not be anything near the actual meaning or what the average guy would take as the meaning. Experience says that you're operating on some different wavelength.

That said and the last little jab notwithstanding, your "babbling" comment is exactly what gets you in trouble with many on here despite your sucking up during other times. I said this when you first came to the Campfire and started throwing your weight around (or attempting to) a little over a year ago, it's difficult to believe you're a lawyer when you act so unprofessionally on here. You are extremely quick to take offense and very quick with the inferences towards people's intelligence and sanity. I'm certainly not well-versed enough with courtroom drama to know but I shudder to think that things are conducted so fast and loose in a court of law.

Let me explain again exactly what I meant. You constantly set yourself up as an expert and the arbiter of what is and what is not a reasonable expectation of movement within our political system. I think long ago we stepped over the part where you tell us exactly why you are such an expert on this. I was simply asking you what qualifications you have, not so much as to offer your opinion, but to offer it so often and so vehemently on so many aspects of politics. Over 9,000 posts in a year and a half! Most on politics. That's a bunch my friend.

The "why" was a sarcastic reference to your boy's campaign pretty much making a flushing sound, not a question of where his operations are taking place. Why would I care?

Actually you are correct, I do correspond with politicians from time-to-time and e-mail is certainly one of the methods of that correspondence.

Know how to do what? You come on here like a house afire and disrespect a lot of people-I'm not talking solely about myself but there are a lot of "smart" people here on the campfire who may have opinions contrary to your own. IMO that's not the way to gain acceptance in a community-which is what this is. But this is just my opinion and you keep on keepin' on if that's what you wanta do.

LOng's we're all cool on old farts waving Kentucky Rifles around, and making rather Belicose statements.....

I says,

Lets go up to HQ, and sort some serious derliction of appointed duty out.

I'm a little short of sleep, right now.

Ya'll that want to defend NRA performance over the last year.
Search OSHA "scramble"

for whatever it's worth, I'm a lifer....and all certified, and a match director and blah -blah....etc.

I am TERRIBLY dissapointed in the NRA / ILA.

See YOU, in the AM.

GTC

Youze',....at least some of Ya',

don't seem to understand brevity.

......Mouthy,.....I says

GTC