I have noticed in several of the photos recently posted on 24hr, that some of you carry extra rounds on your rifles stock in a stretchy cartridge-holder. I used to do that myself, until experience taught me not to. If the rifle you carry already accepts one up and three (or more) down in the magazine, do you really plan on hitting an animal 4 times and still needing a quick 5-th follow-up shot to finally stop him ? .... or are you doing it to add weight to your rifles stock so the perceived-recoil is less ? Maybe a little story will help elucidate my experience with rifle stock cartridge holders......

One afternoon while out elk hunting in Eastern Oregon (when I was still a tadpole), I was about a mile into the wilderness, sitting on a log eating lunch and watching a big canyon. The clouds were low and wisps of fog prevented a clear view of the opposite hillside. It appeared that I would have a better view through the trees if I moved about 15 yards left along the log. Taking my rifle, sandwich and drink, (but leaving my pack behind) I moved left. Within 5 minutes, a herd of elk came running out of the timber on the opposite plateau and began to cautiously side hill down toward me. Safety off and shooting from a sit position with a tight sling-wrap, I slowly emptied my wood/blue Winchester Model 70 .300 H-H, cross canyon at the rag horn bull trailing the herd. The canyon walls echoed with the sounds of the first four rounds (fired over about 25 seconds). The lead cow (confused by the echoes) continued moving downhill and they all got closer and closer to me, yet I missed the bull with all four shots. While I was temporarily out of ammo, the lone bull finally stopped walking and stood broadside looking over at me. I had to sneak back 15 yards along the open hillside to my pack to get a few more rounds from a half-filled plastic box of ammo I carried. By the time my cold/wet fingers had a round in the magazine and a round loaded so I could attempt a fifth shot, the animals had moved into the timber and were gone. I called Bert over to cover me, as I climbed down my steep canyon wall and up the other side to look for blood or any signs of a hit ... but there was nothing.

I remember feeling that if I just had a few rounds immediately available from a cartridge carrier attached to my stock .... that I would have gotten that bull. Wrong ! I didn't harvest that animal because I was shooting at distances beyond my (and my rifles) capabilities at the time, not because I couldn't get to a fifth or sixth round fast enough.

Upon returning to town following that season, I immediately bought an elastic ammo band and removing the M-70's sling, quickly slipped it on my stock. I loaded the band up with the full 8 rounds it would hold ... and holding the rifle in a cross chest carry position, looked in the mirror ...Oh-yeah ! ... it's Rambo-like. I threw the rife up toward may face to take aim and nearly poked my eye out ....(LOL) Hmmm ... I guess the rounds should be stored on the opposite side from the cheek piece. Within the next year of hunting with this Rambo accessory, it was clear that having the cartridge band attached (and cartridges handy in the woods), accomplished four things for me:

1) once wet, the band left ugly stains in the Pre-64 wooden stocks virgin finish
2) it promoted accelerated corrosion on the shells stored in it
3) it stretched and caused me to leak-ammo throughout the woods as I walked
4) other hunters who encountered me asked .."Are you planning to go to war somewhere ?"

5) It never once assisted me in harvesting an animal. Did I mention how much more the rifle weighed in my hands, when carrying 8 rounds on the stock all day ?

I finally took the cartridge carrier off and threw it away, realizing that I had succumbed to marketing hype and was solving the wrong problem. Unless I was personally under-fire, it was unlikely I would need a quick fifth follow-up shot. What I really needed, was to put a lot more training and effort into the perfect execution of my first shot, including knowing the range, understanding ballistics and especially knowing when to hold off and not to shoot.

Not to flame, but mostly out of curiosity .... for those of you who currently carry additional rounds on your stock while in the woods ....

1) Are you hunting with a single shot (eg: Ruger #1) ?
2) Do you expect to need more than 3 or four shots to kill your quarry ?
... 2a) Will the animal hang around that long ?
... 2b) Are you hitting them, with each of the first 4 rounds ?
3) Wouldn't carrying additional rounds in a pocket allow you to reload fast-enough?
4) Does the weight of the rounds in the carrier, affect your POI as the rounds are fired ?
5) Are there other positive reasons to carry extra rounds on your stock ?

Enquiring minds ??

... S.B.

I generally carry two different types of ammo with me when I hunt. My varmint loads and my deer loads. Most often I hunt with a 270 Winchester. My varmint loads are Hornaday 130 gr. SST's and my deer loads are Nosler 130 gr. Partitions. The shoot at exactly the same point of impact with the same group (different powders).

I never know what I am going to run into when I am hunting. Sometimes it is deer, turkeys, coyotes, etc... I am prepared without going back to the vehicle or carring a pack.

Just a personal preference, but I have found the stretchy holders handy for me. Not to mention my first Cape Buffalo hunt. The stretchy thing holds 9 total rounds. I used every one of them!

I've used the belt ammo carrier for years and prefer it over carrying in my pocket or on the rifle butt. It is quieter than carrying in your pocket, stays out of your way when not in use, usually ends up under your coat if it is wet/cold outside, therefore dry, and is as easy to load from as a carrier on the stock.
I've reloaded from this holder many times as I was running after an Elk I wasn't sure was down, or in Africa when I thought the game might get away- and I can reload almost as fast (with some practice) as standing still and loading deliberately.
I use the open style with 10 elastic loops, but have toyed with the idea of using the flip-open style for better protection of my ammo. However, in at least 10 years of using this ammo carrier, I think I've only lost one cartridge and never had any problem with the ammo getting cruddy (technical term) from corrosion, dirt, or snow/ice.

There have only been a couple of times I needed more than the load in the rifle magazine, but I was sure glad I had them handy when I needed them.- Sheister

I use the the stretchy on all my stock's Its a Bear Tooth
Product. I first bought it for my Win SG for stock protection. Never used it wet weather though. Number 2 reason is that I can raise the comb area higher just a tad or more for me to custom fit my weld to the stock for instant eye position with the scope. Bear creek comes with differ thickness of pads to do so.
I do like the cartridge holder dodad on the right side for instant use. Its quick to use and I have used it for quick reloading. Especially for running game in thick stuff or if it goes into a canyon after youve shot and the game comes out a different finger in the canyon your loaded and ready to go. (Who cares what others think about what it looks like) Why do people use BARS, isnt a bolt fast enough?
It also balances out my rifle that could be considered a bit nose heavy.
Using the cartridge holding stretchy is better than putting the rounds in your pocket as well.
The more I hunt the more Im glad I use them, extremely
practicle as far as I'm concerned.

http://www.beartoothproducts.com/

Never!!

Man those thing look too rambo for me. Brings up mental images of a guy in full camo on an atv with an ammo belt around his waist, a butt stock ammo holder, big ol harris bipod hangin off the front swivel stud, and a 50mm scope.

Actually one of my buddies has almost that exact same setup, minus the atv and ammo belt. He does have ammo loops in the sling stuffed full though. Sometimes i get embarrased to be seen hunting with a guy packing a rifle like that...

It may be functional (not convinced yet how) for some guys, but i cant get over the looks of the buttstock ammo holder. I like my rifle to look good (as if the elk care), with as few extras as possible. So its not for me. I tried flip up scope covers for a while, but it was too complicated for my tastes, so i took them off. I did try a stretchy sling (not with the ammo loops) and did like it, cant stand the looks compared to a leather sling, but i may convert.

I try to keep the cheese off my rifles. I have an extra box of ammo in my pack, and four or five in my pocket with a rubberband wrapped around them to keep them quiet. I dont know even how necessary that is, if it ever takes me 8+ rounds to kill an elk i might as well find another hobby... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I use them on my singles and on my lever and bolts.
I usually have a couple of "specialty" loads in them always to the rear, so I can pick them out by feel alone.
I can't ever recall losing a round from one .
And how something looks on a "work" weapon never even occured to me.
I have some nice wood stocked pieces, but I can't remember when I last took one to the woods (other than a levergun) .
I love the convenience of not digging around in a pocket or pack.

I never gave thought about how it looked until another
hunter carrying a rifle with a a revolver on his hip asked me if I was going to war. I told him no, then asked him
why he carried a handgun on a rilfe elk hunt. Was he
afraid that somebody was going to take his rifle from him?

I carry one on my Ruger # 1. For everything else I use a 10 round ammo wallet on my belt

I tried one years ago and found it to be in the way more than it was ever needed.

My hunting pants are surplus Norwegian army wool pants with cargo pockets. I put one round in each of the four front pockets and figure that 8 rounds is all I should have.

As a matter of fact, the older I get the more I have decided that weight savings are starting to count. To that end, I aim to start finding ways of lightening up the load. I am tired of carrying stuff I never use.....

i load my mag, and then go hunting. never needed more than what i had in the mag at the time. i also do not have the opportunity for several species on a single hunt.

i guess i never gave a second thought to the way it looked, and have seen other hunters carrying their spare ammo this way, but never cared enough to comment...

I load the magazine, one in my pocket and a three or four wrapped in a sock to avoid jingles in my pack. I've never needed to reach in my pocket or my pack but carry a few extras just to be safe.

I tried the elastic holders for carrying extra ammo, didn't like them for most of the reasons mentioned. I carry five extra rounds in a stripper clip made for the O3. Flat package, don't rattle and always together. It rides in an inside coat pocket. Once in a while like every couple of years I have to tighten up the ends of the clip with a pair of needle nose pliars but that is all.
I figure five in the rifle and five in the clip is plenty unless the Indians attack.

BCR

stripper clips! now that is a good idea! All my rifles are 06 based, so that sounds like the new plan. I never heard that before, but that would keep em together and keep em quiet. I like it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My hunting days are over and behind, so I can offer only a past-tense response.

Since the rifle -- with a scope -- was always hand-carried, usually for long periods and long hikes, I kept it as light and maneuverable as possible. Narrow carrying strap (not a sling) often omitted once afield (carried thereafter in a pocket). NEVER anything else ON the rifle except an expendable, home-made, inner-tube scope cover.

Having grown-up reading hunters' accounts of getting caught far from their ammo supplies, with only the rounds in their rifles, I always carried plenty of extra ammo -- none of which, BTW, ever had to be dug out of a pocket and loaded into the rifle. I also favored carrying five-round "packs" in old Springfield stripper clips -- still have a box of 'em somewhere.

Keep extra rounds always at hand? Definitely, emphatically YES. Always CLOSE at hand, easy to reach.

ON the stock? Definitely, emphatically NO. This isn't the only place you can carry extra rounds.

IN the butt (in a cartridge trap)? Sometimes. Mostly no. One of my fanciest big-game rifles has the hand-made prototype of very nice cartridge trap under the removable recoil pad. It has yet to have its first cartridge inserted. I've always had plenty of pockets -- pants, shirt, vest, jacket. If I'd wanted swifter, prompter access than pockets provided, I'd've had cartridge loops on the left front of my shirt, or on my hat. NEVER on the rifle.

I use a leather, 5-round ammo carrier laced on the butt of my Marlin 1895 45-70. It is solely for the purpose of someplace to carry extra ammo, not for fast reloading.
I don't like belt ammo carriers as newer styles use velcro which is noisy, snaps which weaken over time and pop open when not intended to be open, and loose cartridges in pants pockets jingle when walking. Guess I could put them into my pack but I like the ammo carrier on the butt.

Gotta admit I had this one custom made by a saddle shop and I specifically asked for it to hold 5 rounds as I couldn't stand the 8+ round stretchy kind, sorta looked like overkill if you know what I mean.

Ken, what are your reasons for the "emphatic no" for
keeping rounds on a stock?

I keep 4 rounds on mine in the stretchy and find it very
convenient. Protection and raising my comb were my main reasons for the streatchy, but I went ahead a took andvantage of the loops on it.

I have an Uncle Mike's sling that I use on all my rifles. It has loops for 4 rounds. I like it since I have never liked to carry extra rounds in my pockets. never seemed like I could wrap them enought to keep them quiet. tom

I guess there are a LOT of fantastic shooters on this board. I guess I am one of the unlucky ones that uses my butt stock ammo carrier a lot. Most rifles carry three rounds and to say that you "NEVER" have to reload is a pipe dream. Come on guys, be honest.....NEVER??? That is a big word. So let me see if I got this straight, everyone here makes one shot kills and never reloads their magazine? Or could it be that you never get any shooting? I am just curious, because I use mine on every hunt. There are always coyotes or other critters that need to be shot. I like not having to worry about fumbling for shells in my backpack or worrying if I grabbed my shells off the shelf. They are always on my rifle. I use them all year round for varmints and the works. I consider myself a good shot, but when I use a round out of my magazine, I quickly replace it with one from the stock. I like a full belly in a rifle. Even when hunting elk, they don't always go down with one shot and the last thing I want to do is fumble in a back pack for shells with a wounded or moving animal. They are far from "advertising hype". They are very functional for the guys that actually do a lot of shooting and not just carrying. Most PH hunters have them as do serious big game hunters. If it were hype, they would all be clean and pressed for show. Mine look like they have been through a war and work VERY well. Flinch

For someone who hunts with different rifles they can be pretty handy. I know when I pull a rifle out of its case that I have 9 rounds with me. I don't have to worry about switching out the rounds in a belt pouch every time I switch rifles.

Just FWIW, when hunting big game, I hunt big game. I don't take pot shots at vermin as I usually have worked to get to where I am hunting and don't want to send the game I am after into the next county by dusting a coyote. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If they work for you, great. I just dont see the benefit for me. If i have four or five shells in my pocket, it is plenty quick to reload. I dont think i will ever be in a situation that reaching for shells in my pocket is gonna slow me down enough to lose an animal. After i shoot, i always reload anyway, im just not in a hurry i guess. Carring extra rounds is a good idea, but i dont need them to be as handy as the guy you hear shooting 5+ times real fast, then a pause while he reloads, then another volley of gunfire. We have all heard em on opening day, and i just laugh. ever hear the "one shot, one elk, two shots, maybe one elk, three shots, no elk"? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> If it is handy for you to carry extra shells on the butt of your rifle, great. I wasnt trying to offend you, everyone has different ways they like to do things.

FWIW: I've never used one or needed one (honest!...no kiddin') shot more than three shots only one time. But!! I'm about to venture back into single shot territory with a new Encore with a couple of barrels.

So...........I'm thinking seriously about some form of carrier. I generally can't use one on my belt, because I usually have a pack on. (Maybe a belt slide on the pack belt??) I guess I don't see a big disadvantage to a carrier on the stock, but................??

I think that I've seen a velcro carrier that goes around your wrist or forearm but that might bug ya after a while. I'm struggling with this one too, I s'pose I'll figure it out when I get out there and start tramping around with the thing.

JimF

Since I moly-coat my bullets (and I hate carrying things that rattle) I have collected some empty factory rifle ammo boxes from the range and removed their plastic cartridge holders. These can be cut up into small flat 5 (or 6) round holders that are lightweight, flexible and completely silent. I then place one 5-pack in a quart size zip-lock bag of a style that has a raised bump to seal/unseal. The bump assures that the bag can be easily opened even with wet or cold fingers.

One bag can then be placed in my right hand jacket or vest pocket, to be handy, yet completely quiet, with the bag preventing the rounds from gathering debris or shedding the moly. A second 5-round pack is also bagged/carried (left) deep in my butt pack for any emergency.

For me, coyotes only have a free pass on opening morning of big game seasons. After that, they are fair game. However, with the coyotes out here, you only get one shot. It's either dead song-dog .... or he's traveling warp speed headed into cover and you may as well not make any more noise. I tend to frown on those who (during big game hunts) continue to launch shot after shot at ole Wily-E-Coyote who's doing Mach-1 out beyond 500 yards, merely because they can still see him. They are classed right up (down) there with those who sight-in their rifles (with 15 rounds) in the dark at camp by headlights into a live tree, the night before the season opens.

S.B.

Flich
I can honestly say I've never had to reload on a big game hunt. I'm not a expert marksman or legendary hunter by any means. I do usually manage to get at least a deer or elk every year sometimes both. I think I've never had to reload because I'm very picky about my shot selection and don't take shots at running game. My 8mm will hold three and one in the chamber, the most shots I've fired at a elk is three, I've done this about three times. The third shot was the mercy shot on all three. On another I missed the first shot and on another two hits and one mercy shot. I hunt deer mostly with my .270 and I can't remember all the shots, I know I've never emptied my magazine. Again I'm not a professional hunter and make no claim. I don't shoot coyotes or any other critters while I'm hunting game animals so I don't need extra ammo for that. Maybe I've just been lucky, but like I said I'm very patient with my shot selection and almost always shooting off a rest of a log,pack or something along those lines. I practice offhand shooting but rarely shoot at game animals unless it's at a wounded animal or close in range. dempsey

ElkSlayer, I agree about not taking pot shots in my hunting grounds. I don't do that either, but driving to or from those spots is often a couple of hour drive. Coyotes and foxes are almost ALWAYS encountered along the way and beg to be shot at. A half box of shells is always nice to have handy on the stock of the rifle in hand. All my rifles are sighted in for the bullets they have on their butt stocks. When I decide to take a drive up the canyon after work or on a weekend, I simply grab a rifle and the shells are attached. I don't even have to think about it. Non of my rifles collect dust. They get shot weekly and a lot. Shells never sit in the butt sling long enough to get gunk on them. I like to shoot a round or two at the end of a wet or nasty day just to clean any moisture out of the barrel and to keep it "fouled" (within reason). Flinch

You will all have to excuse Flinch he just likes any excuse to fiddle with his butt <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I do and I have a good reason. A few years ago, i had a shot, or should I say 3 shots at a good eating doe. She was 55yds away, easy shot right, and with this 300winmag those stalks of hay won't be a problem. Yeah right! Three shots nada, zip, zero, zilch. The hay deflected the bullets. I had some extra rounds on the stock. I knew the deer wouldn't stop, but with my bolt back and the gun empty, I pulled a round and tossed it into the chamber and pushed the bolt home( glad I was using a push feed) and in the only open shot in the field...she stopped, and blammo I had me a good eating doe. I also learned that their is no such thing a a brush busting gun. doug

Sorry Flnch, I didn't understand the context of your statement.

You bet, they are fair game as I travel to the hunting area. I thought you were speaking of poping one off at a yote coming down the ridge as you were looking for elk while on foot.

My mistake.

I got 4 in the mag. If I shoot anything 4 times and it's not dead, i'll appologize quietly and leave. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I do keep 6 in a belt shell holder, mostly in case I loose the clip or drop the clip in water or something. Also - i've forgotten my ammo at camp before (aw come on, like you guys never forgot anything) and it's handy to know that when I put my pants on in the morning, i've got my ammo with me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

HOWEVER - I have a single shot 410 that i'm putting one on because it's handy to leave on the seat when i'm driving to or from camp to blast the odd grouse, and I dont want lots of ammo floating around in my pockets or in the car.

I'm also considering buying a little 30-30 lever for camping in the summer, and one will go on that, just because I don't want to have loose ammo in my pocket all the time and if i need the gun i won't want to hunt up ammo. I won't carry it loaded obviously. But for hunting? Single shots make sense but that's about it.

Flinch,

I thought you always wore 2 bandoliers crisscrossed across your chest so you would have 100 rds at the ready??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Alas for us in the PR Kalifornia; A gun is loaded if there is a cartridge attached in any way, including sling carriers and butt traps.
The local manzanita farms are fertilized with nearly a half a box of .375 H&H from the elastic carrier on my Ruger #1. I've given up the practice.
Cheers from Grayest California,
Ross

Oh yeah, that manzita, Seems like I spent half my Calif. hunting time fighting my way thru that stuff. Sometimes it was shouldr high and so thick I have had to more or less crawl over the tops,
Game trails seem to lead into it but never come out and when you try to back track the one that led you in is gone

Cheaha, that is another can of worms that best be left with the lid on it at this point in the conversation <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I still haven't figured out why you wear a loin cloth with a Speedo on underneath while hunting. Where do you keep the extra shells? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Big Sky, there ain't nothing like fondling a butt after a long hunt <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You of all people should know that by now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Flinch

I saved the old plastic 10 round shell carriers by Win.? factory loads. Load the clip, drop a 10 pack in a pocket and maybe one in the pack(someone or something is having a bad day-but I won't run out of shells).

I very often have a backpack on, so a belt pack interferes with that. I walk, and rounds in the pocket rub (there are ways as stated to get around the clinking) I have on occaision needed more than the three to five in the magazine I don't generally carry one chambered, except when slip hunting alone in dense cover. I have had occaision where my extra rounds were a quarter mile away in my pack, and my jacket or coat is likely to be on and off many times a day, so yes, I carry 3 to 5 rounds on the stock - where they should be for handy access. Sometimes, I even use them. This, I consider to be a screw up, but I'm with Flinch - it happens to everyone sooner or later if you hunt enough, and are honest about it. How much worse is it if you can't do something about it in a timely fashion?

I do not use the stretchy things for the reasons SB first noted, and I don't like the points of my bullets exposed and unprotected (I know, it's not supposed to make a difference), and I don't like the orientation of the cartridges to the rifle stock when using the stretchy things. So I use a portion of the plastic shell holders that Remington and Federal use for however many rounds I can handily put on the stock (three to five), bullet noses pointed back, but it probably doesn't make a difference. I tape the holder down with electrical tape to stock contour, then tape over a portion of the bullet cases after insertion to hold them in place. It keeps the extra rounds handy and sometimes I carry two different types - lighter hunting loads, and heavy point-blank bear loads (I have never needed them)- which fortunately have virtually the same point of aim out to 100 yards as my hunting loads. There are several minor disadvantages to this system, but changing the feel or accuracy of the gun isn't one of them. To me. The tape, and/or cartridge rims can mess up your finish, or even the wood underneath, so, fortunately, I don't own a fine wood stocked rifl e- but if I did, I wouldn't use this method. If not taped solidly enough, the rounds can back out under recoil (I carry extra tape anyway, for the muzzle and other things). Come to think of it, bullet nose forward might be better to prevent this happening, and possible loss of a round or two, which has happened. The tape adhesive sometimes sticks to the case as the rounds are pulled free, tho I haven't noticed any interference with function or accuracy. The handling/balance of the rifle is not affected for me enough to offset the disadvantage of not having quiet, no-fumble spare rounds immediately available to hand if needed.

In a perfect world, I come home with one less round than I left with - and yes, I usually have an extra half or full box in the truck, or back at camp if not backpacking. As far as those guys who care what it looks like to other hunters, perhaps you should take up another sport- say, something involving Spandex? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In a synthetic stock, I would like a recessed, flush with surface, patch box- type cartridge holder, preferably molded in with a flip cover. Better yet, as the cover is opened, it should lever the cartridge holder - at least the base end- out for very handy extraction of the spare rounds. I keep thinking I ought to invent such a gizmo, but probably never will. The under butt pad idea is second best, as it is a little less handy.

As to scope covers, its either inner tube or Uncle Mike's "Bikini" style. I've had to pry open just one too many of those so-called flip covers! I tie the Bikini cover to the scope tube itself with a piece of 100# Dacron fishing line to prevent loss when I flip it off - the inner tube I don't really care about usually, tho I try not to leave it in the field somewhere. This is from a guy who arrived on stand last year with his rifle bolt still on the cleaning bench at home! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />