Hello all:

This post is for a small audience of the larger 24hourcampfire community.

I suspect that there are not huge numbers of therapists and other mental health professionals on the 24hourcampfire. The Campfire not seem to be the kind of forum that is likely to attract droves of them. However, given the size of our community, I think there must be a few of them lurking out there. This speculation is addressed to them and to those members who may know of teens suffering from depression.

I have had several conversations with co-workers regarding their kids and some of the "issues" their kids are working through. These conversations were often held in small groups of 3 so there were some dynamics that came into play. The child in question had been diagnosed with Major Depression. The first question that popped out of the third party's mouth was "Is he gay?"

So it appears that a commonly assumed chain-of-causality is that depressed teens are often depressed because they are gay. Popular readings on the subject repeat this chestnut to the point where it has become cliche.

I have a couple of family members who are clinically diagnosed as suffering from Major Depression. I did some research on the topic because I am nosy by nature.

I want to propose an alternate chain-of-causality. Most antidepressants fall into a class of drugs identified as selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (common trade names Prozac, Zoloft, Lexapro and others). This class of drugs can do weird things to the male libido.

I propose that depressed teens start out feeling overwhelmed and unable to compete. Then they are dosed with drugs that warp their libido. The only model society offers as an explaination for their initial opting out of the testosterone fueled demolition derby and their subsequent drug induced neutered state is that they MUST be GAY!

Conventional wisdom is that they are depressed because they are gay.

I propose that they think they must be gay because they are depressed and because of the side effects of the drugs commonly used to treat the depression.

All comments appreciated.

Well, I'm a Lesbian trapped in a mans body, lol. Not too depressed though.

I do suppose that your theory has good merit.

Hope a person more knowledgeable( and not a smart azz like me) in these matters checks in here.

I propose that most depressed teens that become depressed and are given anti-depressants are so because of some seriously [bleep] up parents and/or parent (since single parenting seems the norm these days). Parent/s that have not enough time for their own kids, in short folks with screwed up priorities.

Methinks the chain of events needs to go back to the family core, or lack of.

Obviously this isn't every case, but I'd bet a shiny new nickel it's a bunch of them.

I've dated enough SINGLE moms to know that the majority of these women shouldn't even be allowed to have a cat, much less a child.

Well, I dunno 'bout all that...

...but it might make you start watching Dance with the Stars.

The biggest problem with kids is parenting, or lack thereof. Where I'd get a good crack ( my kids got one, too ), kids nowadays get talked to in great length, or ignored because "they have to be allowed to express themselves". "Horsehockey!", as Col. Potter used to say. Kids need love, guidance, and discipline. The kids I see in the ER who are on all these meds suffer a severe lack of parenting. They're no different than the kids I grew up with, who all managed to turn out OK. And, no medicine.

I don't know about teens I do klnow that if I found out I was gay it would sure as heck depress the crap out of me.

Now a straight, no pun intended answer. I honestly do not think gays are born, males are made gay by parenting, or lack thereof, peer pressure, and role models. Take for example an shy introverted young man, entering puberty, with a lack of any positive MALE role model,( single parent is usually the Mother)and peer preassure for other young people of the same age (pack mentality) remember the kid is shy and introverted, and the type role models avalible to shy introverted young people. The self belief of homosexuality, (that every young male gets from time to time) may cause depression, and eventually experimentation. This could lead to deeper depression. I won't even get into the predatory gay males who activly look for confused young males to "turn"

I think dudes are either wired that way or not.

Women on the other hand are only 2 drinks away from a girl on girl experience.

Hey, not all therapists are left wing, liberal, Birkenstock wearing fruit loops <just most of us>. I like the Bio-psycho-Social model of understanding what make some folks have a rougher road through life than others do.

There is no doubt about a genetic predisposition for depression, just like diabetes.... it tends to run in families. If you know about the predisposition to diabetes you can take good general care of yourself and in many cases never develop the illness. Some will still develop it no matter how much they eat right exercise and get plenty of rest. If medication is started early before a bunch of damage gets done to the system, a diabetic can still live a very long full and largely symptom free life....

Similar pattern with depression. If aunt Betty killed herself after falling into a depression that just didn't go away.... it would be wise to pay closer attention to emotional well being for all the relatives. That is the "Bio" part of the above and any decent mental health intake will ask about a family history of mental health issues.

The "Psycho" part is pretty much related to what Steelhead wrote about. If a person grows up feeling like there are some people that love them and they see some good role models for dealing with life and gets the sense that it's OK to screw up from time to time as long as you learn something from it.... that is seen as reducing the chances of falling off the edge later on... Call is good training for dealing with emotions.

The "Social" part is really big with teens because they naturally begin to identify more strongly with their peers. It's normal to hang out with different kinds of groups while a person tries to figure out their own identity separate from their family. Someone without a family history of mental health issues and a safe loving home background can spend more time with less desirable peers and still be highly likely to walk away before getting too caught up in negative stuff....

Think about the diabetes analogy. Caught early it can be managed well without medication in many cases..... sometimes medication becomes necessary.... but just taking medication without changing overall health habits isn't going to work out very well in the longer term....

Oh and about the gay thing.... maybe, but I'd guess it's more likely to be projection on the part of the speaker

Good on you for caring enough to post about it. Major depression is very treatable but left unchecked is truly Hell on earth.

+1

FWIW - I get to interact with a decent number of "troubled" folks and out of all the suicides I've seen MOST (by far) have been folks on meds. I do think there's a small % of the population that NEEDS and benefits from meds but I also think that 95% of people on meds are taking the easy way out and are apt to have a lot more trouble than if just dealing with their issues "unadjusted"....

Joe Mama. There is a lot of homosexuality amongst my uncles and aunts on my Dad's side. I can't help but notice that they were all suffereing from some degree of depression. In all of their cases, I believe that the depression came from them all growing up in a very structured Irish Catholic upbringing. I mean, being a gay Catholic is tough. You already have to feel guilty all the time anyways, and then you throw being gay in in top of that and you have a surefire case of depression. In all their cases, their depression was CAUSED, by some degree, from their homosexuality. Not the other way around...

I really feel that in the future they will discover a gene that gives a propensity towards homosexuality. One of my uncles is only a couple years older than I am. We grew up together, he was more like a brother in a lot of ways. He's been gay ever since I can remember. I mean he was into Jazz Dancing when my brother and I were playing baseball...

Depression is a real bitch. These days head doctors have made a lot of ground on it. When I was a kid (and a good Catholic) if you were depressed, you needed to suck it up, pray more and maybe god would let you off the hook for whatever you did. Now they KNOW it's caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.

In my family, we would've handled this with "Scotch Therapy." Go on a three or four day hunting trip with your kid, and take two 5ths of Scotch for each night stayed. Get hammered and talk things through. Depending on the severity of the depression, you may want to consider spending one night hunting at the Bunny Ranch just North of Vegas.

You sound depressed..............grin

I don't know if gayness runs in my family, but I am doing my best to offset it if it does!

I don't have any information on the specific topic, but I'll offer this.

One thing that is hammered into the heads of all psychology students (and other sciences as well) is not to confuse correlation with causality. Also, not to assume that A causes B, when it may be the other way around.

Paul

Steelhead... I have three kids, all girls. Of course I'm depressed. In a couple of years I'll have to work 2 days OT a month just to pay for tampons

If that's the case, there should many families where all the kids are gay. Though not impossible, I've never heard of that happening. I realize each kid in a family may have different levels of peer preasure, But I agree with steelhead on this one. It's in the wiring.

Dude, that is TFF!

Travis

There is NO easy way out. desperate people just follow their Doctors direction. Many don't even know they are clinically depressed but exibit symtoms known to Doctors. There would be many less suicides if more people got help quicker.

Really? Well, let me tell one: I have four kids, all girls, and my house only has one shower.

Depression makes you gay.

Happiness makes you straight.

I'm guessing being Bipolar makes one Bisexual? Apparently Bipolar ain't just a clever name.......

Some people never get depressed no matter how much problems are piled onto them. Others meltdown at the slightest inconvenience.
Ever been to a mall a week before Xmas?

Well said.

Don't forget the Prom dresses.
So much for future rifle builds.....

Ever wonder why they're single?

Not for a moment, though I have wondered why they have children.

A paycheck from the government might be the answer1

You have my sympathies

Lynn

IIRC they found a genetic link for homosexuality about 10 years ago. In all seriousness, that's when I became more accepting of it.

Didn't find one for AC/DC yet.

You're lucky, I was planning for another response when I saw you had replied.

There is a time when the egg is fert that it takes on it's sex ,two many x's or y's and it's pot luck from then on.

When there is a true embalance and the woman is six three and whip your ass and out hunt you too,that might be your kind of woman,but she might hate men!


Same as a man that is thin boned,limp wrist and looks and sounds like a little girl,a true Natures twist!

Just leave it be,and either could be your friend,I 'm just saying that it can be DNA more or less x's or Y's much more than

anybody's parenting.

Bob

Dude, that doesn't sound like fun at all... I have 1 1/2 baths, 4 bedrooms, and TWO family rooms. The downstairs family room has kept my sanity. Even with two [bleep] in the house, I find myself waving good morning to the neighbor off the back porch every morning,,,,, while taking a leak.

I'd do that regardless.

Are you depressed?

Pissing outside is what those that don't squat to piss do.

Interesting place to seek input on this topic (!), but I have a few things to add. First, I have no experience with the male libido and its effects WRT SSRIs. However, I do have direct experience with a woman suffering from clinical depression who was on SSRIs (Paxil). She was, in fact, a GF of mine once upon a time. I can attest that her libido was *greatly* affected by the drugs.

In a nutshell, the SSRIs led to a significant decrease in hers. In her words, she could not feel what she normally would (opening myself up to a wealth of cracks here!). I tried to bear with her issues, and let things 'work out', even while her mental meltdown was imminent. The last straw was me coming home one night and hearing a clapping noise coming from the bedroom. It was in sheer horror that upon looking for the source of the noise, I saw her sitting in the dark, *slapping* the bejeezus out of herself. I like to think I'm a pretty compassionate fellah, but right then and there I started packing my bags. Off she went to a breakdown. Oh, well. Good thing I saw it for what it was: that chick was freaking straight out bananas!

Apologies for not adding any relevant input, but there it is.

L

One more comment: every single male I know that is gay was sexually abused as a child. Every one. Nurture, not nature is what I believe on this. Flak jacket ON.

L

My observation is that Depression and homosexuality are unrelated. A strictly hererosexual person can be Clinically Depressed just like someone who is homosexual. I think the tendency towards Clinical Depression is hereditary, and that child abuse can push someone over the edge so they have Clinical Depression become manifest within them.

Edit to add: The feeling among kids that they may be gay is because they may have some homosexuality in them. That has nothing to do with Clinical Depression. As Paul said, don't confuse correlation with casualty. Most homosexualy people know that they are homosexual by the time they are 4 years old.

dude, that's just gross!













well at least according to the womenfolk in my family, the 10 year old thinks it's a grand idea though "hey mom, dad says the world is our urinal"

As someone who has suffered from, and is currently medicated for, moderate to severe clinical depression, I'd like to weigh in.

First off, a bit of history...I grew up completely normal in a home where I had both parents, no reason to ever feel depressed, but in high school and then moreso in college I just began to feel worse and worse. It wasn't until college that I realized I MUST be depressed -- I started to wonder "if everyone felt this way all the time, why isn't it standing-room-only to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge?" But I was pretty afraid of the widely-publicized side effects of antidepressants and I also was afraid they would change who I was as a person, besides just my depressive symptoms.

It wasn't until after college when I met my future wife that I decided to attempt some medication. I met with my doctor and got prescribed Celexa. Mom and dad were pretty surprised when I told them how bad I had felt and that I was getting medication, but the frank discussion with them led Mom to address her own depression, partly due to menopause and partly due to her own chemical imbalances, which certainly were genetic to me. She had also grown up in an unstable home with an alcoholic dad so I'm sure some of that was situational.

At any rate, as far as the sexual side effects, having depression doesn't make me feel "gay;" depending on whatever is going on chemically in my head at the time, I notice that I either have heightened sexual response (i.e., very intense orgasms very quickly) or completely dulled response (i.e. impossible to climax, lack of interest in sex, etc.) Not to give TMI, just a perspective on the effects that the meds have had on me personally.

I think the causality there might lie in the fact that homosexuality is unaccepted by mainstream society; therefore, people who have homosexual feelings which are repressed are more likely to feel conflicted about their feelings and inclinations and hide them or suppress them which can lead to depression. Guilt and fear of being found out are two huge reasons that could cause this.

Hey! dlrow! GPA!

C'mon you "guy(s)". Where ya at? We need some experts on this!

I'm not a professional but I have more experience that I care for. My experience isn't a large-scale statistical study but it is MY experience. Many times meds help folks cope but when there's an issue, it's often a nightmare.



Agreed.



Why don't you tell me.....I'm all ears and REALLY hope I'm wrong!!



Never said it was......I guess that's why one of the side-effects of anti-deppressants is serious DEPRESSION.....

Depression is mostly chemical in origin.

As evidence of this premise, consider that black adolescents have significantly lower rates of suicide and likely correspondingly lower rates of clinical depression. I believe this is true even in the lower economic strata.

Sorry for the lack of cites.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the performing arts especially dancing.

When I was a kid, dancing, i.e. tap dancing, ballet, etc. was considered for girls only. Any boys who wanted to do that was considered a sissy or gay. Real Dads wanted their sons to engage in the manly sport of violence, i.e. football, baseball, basket ball, hockey, boxing, etc.

Today, more and more boys are engaging in the performing dancing arts with support from both parents. One can dance and still be manly.

Many males do not seek violence for violence sake. Many males are quite comfortable with the gentle side of things and feminine company while still maintaining maleness.

Teen boys who feel threaten or a lack of love from fathers for perferring softer, gentler side of things may very well become depressed.

This is the gayest thread ever......

Seeing as how I'm now depressed, I'll need to go look at boobies and drink whiskey just to get things back on an even keel. (grin)

For the record, I'm not against same-sex relationships, as long as the chicks are hot.

I'm thinking that when folks first realize their gay is what leads them to taking/needing anti-depressants. Got to know the road ahead is going to be bumpy. I've known many people who took meds and I never heard of that side effect before. I believe people are born that way.

Seriously, I think you are right. I know a few gay people, and most of them have been on antidepressants at one time or another.

I think being gay would cause depression.

g

And cannabilism!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...t-marinated-diced-flesh-fresh-herbs.html

- Tom

Must have be a woman that came between them....<yuck>

He said the two men had known each other for some years.

Mr Oldfield was openly gay and worked selling advertising space for a homosexual lifestyle magazine.

He was described as ' flirtatious, promiscuous, naturally outgoing and bubbly'.

Morley was 'less sure about his sexuality' and had had relationships with both men and women.

He had won the first Mr Gay UK contest in 1993.

A homosexual SHOULD be depressed:

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

However, the Bible goes on to say that while homosexuality is a sin that leads to death, IT'S ALSO A FORGIVABLE SIN. The homosexual must acknowledge his sin, though, sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness, and make a sincere effort to avoid further sin.