So i get a call from my wife yesterday that my 6yr old son told another student that he was gonna get a gun and shoot them. The bus driver called my wife. So i got off of work and went to the school, the school did not even know what had happened, so i talk with the school psyc. and take my kid out of school. Now he knows nothing of columbine, last week in russia, or any of the other school shooting around the word. So he has no real ideal what his words really mean in this day and age. so i sit him down in front of the computer and pull up as much info and news cast of school shootings, and try to convey what his words mean in this day and age. had him write 3 apology letters and I at 36 had to write a apology letter to the school. Now my son broke down in tears and this is the second time in a month that he is being bullied, teased, harassed by other students. so in my letter i stated that i want a sit down with the parents and the other kids to resolve this matter. now i know my son is not totally innocent in this ordeal but i am trying to make him understand how his actions affect everyone. So he is kicked off the bus for 4 days, the Principle is going to have a sit down with the other kids. the othe kids are in the 4th and 5th grade and my son is in the 1st grade. so they are a little more discreet about the harassment and my son gets mad and goes off.
I would love to have a chat with these kids but i know i would be the one in trouble just for chatting with them. cuz i know they would lie about what really was said.

So any advice would be helpful on how to deal with the school.

so while i am at it. if any one has one of those lockable gun safes for the night stand that is not too expensive and would help a fellow shooter and father out let me know.

When I was a kid, this was common place and no one gave it a 2d thought other than to make the kid apologize. However, times have changed. When I was a kid, these mass shootings were totally unheard of. I don't know how to tell if a kid is just being a normal kid or if he's hiding some very dangerous instability.

#1.Teach the boy how to fight.

#2.They make little lockboxs for your nightstand that can be quickly opened.You can get one through Cabela's for pretty cheap.

WB.

The public school system is more about socialization than about education. This has resulted in more children being school privately or home schooled. I home schooled my kids and all 16 of my grandkids are being either privately schooled or home taught.

The mere idea of children in the 8th grade being given condoms at school and instructed on how to use them is but one indicator of how far the state educational system has been taken over by a leftist agenda that is more interested in promoting their propoganda than in teaching the basics. IOW, I believe the problem is far less with your 1st grader than with the system into which you have consigned him.

I doubt that addresses adequately your post, clos. I can recommend no simple path with your school or its administration that can be effective. I would like to see the PTA used to bring a sense of reality back into the educational process, but, I am somewhat cynical about the results. I look forward to other's ideas.

The public school system is more about socialization than about education. This has resulted in more children being school privately or home schooled. I home schooled my kids and all 16 of my grandkids are being either privately schooled or home taught.

The mere idea of children in the 8th grade being given condoms at school and instructed on how to use them is but one indicator of how far the state educational system has been taken over by a leftist agenda that is more interested in promoting their propoganda than in teaching the basics.

I doubt that addresses adequately your post, clos. I can recommend no simple path with your school or its administration that can be effective. I would like to see the PTA used to bring a sense of reality back into the educational process, but, I am somewhat cynical about the results. I look forward to other's ideas.

teaching the kid to fight is of little utility in the completely feminized atmosphere of America's public schools. the rule now is that anybody who fights is in trouble, regardless of who threw the first punch or what the provocation was.

a kid can say the most vile thing to your son imaginable, and if he hits them, he's kicked out of school, sent to a shrink, labeled as a problem, etc etc.

the first year my son was in boarding school, there was a little brat...dumped off by rich parents, screwed up, spoiled....who just wouldn't lay off mouthing at Jack. My son was twelve, the kid was 13 and bigger but basically a loud mouthed pussy. He finally made the mistake of putting his hand on my kid, who beat the dogshit out of him. Suspended for three days from school, sent for counseling. Now, the other kid got suspended, too, but I don't call that justice. It did, however, teach the punk some manners, and they eventually became fairly good friends by the time they graduated.....the way it used to work when adults let kids work out their differences themselves.

all violence is bad, self-defense is never justified, guns are evil.....that's the way it is in American schools today, with rare, private school exceptions.

better teach him how the system works

My old man had a few rules about that.

He said,

1) Start a fight and I'll whip your azz.
2) Run from a fight and I'll whip your azz for three days. (he actually did that to my little brother, three days right after dinner}
3) Don't let words goad you.
4) When hands are laid on you beat their azz.

But alas, that generation has passed.



That was the way it was when I was in school, but dad had my back.

Private school is your best option. You need to get him out of the government school system. He will then get a education instead of indoctornation.

Clos, it is definitely a lousy situation. I really like the idea of a school-sponsored sit-down that would bring all of the parties involved together. The problem is at school, so that seems like a good place to meet to resolve it. I would push for that and also for a follow-up meeting at some future time to see if the situation has been righted. Hope things work out for you. Best, John

May God Bless and Keep You and your Family.

It Sounds like you got the immediate situation covered.

My kids take Tae Kwon Do. The get discipline and physical fitness. They also learn self defense.

Spend some time finding a good and honorable instuctor.

Master James Lee, here in my little hometown, teaches the Five Tenets of Tae Kwon Do everyday: Courtesy, Integrity, Perseverance, Indomitable Spirit, and Self Control.

He also teaches (and lives) many of the basic Korean sayings:

In Ja Moo Jock "People of Good Will have no enemies"

Moo In bool Soong -- "Without Patience you cannot be a winner"

And my favorite for teaching kids:

Jin In Sa Dae Chun Myung -- "Do your best with what you have and let God do the rest"

Good Luck,

BMT

My son started taking Tae Kwon Do when he was 8 years old. He is 16 now and has only been bulled twice. The bully received 3 or 4 kicks to the face before he could react. You son will devolop a reputation as a passive target or a kid to avoid.

I'm not saying fighting is the answer and he needs to try to settle disputes in a peaceful manner . I have never regreted him taking those lessons .

My question would be why are the school personel allowing the situation to happen in the first place. It seems thay are leaving the children unattended and unsupervised.

This is obviously a case of bullying. Take it from someone like me who not only was bullied, but was also a bully. TEACH THE KID TO FIGHT! I got beaten on an almost daily basis when I was a little kid in school, but no matter how badly I got beaten, I ALWAYS put up a fight. Nowadays, my biggest bullies back then are now my best of friends. Heck, my girlfriend was a bully of mine as well. Running from a fight is FAR worse than losing a fight.

I don't agree with the school making such a big deal over a 6 yo saying he's going to shoot someone. Heck, when I was a 6 yo, I said much worse and never had to write any form of apology.

unless I missed it, clos kid is a 1st grader, the kids bothering him are in 5th or 6th grade.


he ain't gonna kung fu master these kids, though I'm in favor of instructing children basic self defense, some boxing, martial arts, joint manipulation those are as basic as reading, writing and math to arm you for the real world.


and I don't know clos economic situation, he's only 36, depending upon income, private school or home schooling may not be a current option, though I'm in favor of that as well.

so while all good advice it may not be pertinent to his current situation.


all you can do is what you have to work with.


I can like the advice for meeting at school with the other parents, their children and the principal. Take the lead, be courteous and empathetic to both the parents of the other kids and the situation the principle finds himself in. But firmly state your case that you believe your son if not pushed to the point of sheer frustration would have threatened anyone.

if you're met with denial, thank everyone for their time and assure them you're working diligently to ensure your son understands the gravity of his actions in the current political climate.


get your son one of those mini digital tape recorders and teach him how to use it. you may need the evidence. if you find via the recordings that he's indeed being bullied present that evidence to the principal and the other parents.


if nada works, whisper to one of the parents, "your kid knocks it off immediately or you're going to pay the price"

if it persists, put that parent in the hospital. Have an alibi, a strong one.

good luck, tis a heck of a world we live in, in my day the bullies would have had their azz whupped by the principal and after he'd tenderized it the parents would do it up right at home. Problem solved.

but it ain't my day, thank a liberal

School busses are the WORST place to leave your kid un attended. Unfortunately, the driver already has his hands full with the steering wheel and can only react after the damage has been done. If you want your son to stay in this school district you need to get him off the bus. We finally had to separate the kids by age on our school busses to keep the peace. The older kids just razzed the hell out of the younger ones until they let go and said things they could not take back or were beat up. Of course no one wanted to take a stand on the problem children because of a "lack of evidence" or a lack of balls.

It's not safe or smart to mix the little kids with the big kids in an unsupervised area like a school bus but it's done every day. In a class room, you have one teacher and 30 kids all the same age. On a bus you wll have 50 kids all of different ages and no one supervising their behavior. We had cameras on the busses but no audio was recorded and the bus superintendant would not let anyone else view the videos even if it did have information. The excuse was they had to get permission from the rest of the parents of the kids who were on the bus but not part of the problem.

Every one was afraid of the legal system (getting sued) and having to defend themselves in court. Let's face it, Administrators don't want some a--hole parent in their face making their life difficult either. Of course, there are those parents who will manipulate and threaten to protect their children whether they are wrong or not. Running two busses, one for the big kids and one for the little kids is too expensive for many districts. Many schools look at bussing as a gift to the parents but not a neccessity. If the problems is on the bus, GET HIM OFF THE BUS!! I was a school resource officer (SRO) for 6 years. Been there had to do it. kwg

As a teacher, former bus driver and having graduate degree's in Administration. IMO this is probably only happening on the bus this is the only contact a 1st grader and 5th should have. Most schools have different times for kids to have recess so you would not have them together there. So having the bus driver separate the kids would be the first action and then talk with the principal. The principal and the school's SRO should then talk with the 5th graders and give them the talk about the school districts policy on bullying/harassment and maybe a call to the parents depending on their discipline record and background. As far as meeting with parents the principal will never do that, it is unprofessional to bring parents in together and let them talk about each others kids that is trouble waiting to happen. Hope everything works out, there is nothing I hate worse than to see a kid treated this way by other kids.

I missed that part about the age differance. Back in the day if the school would have told my dad that I was picking on a kid so much younger than me, dad would have promptly taken an inch or two of hide off my azz. From what I see or parents today that ain't happening. It seems that parents rise to the kids defence no matter how bad what they do is. No accountability what so ever.

I don't think I'd tell your son to go run and tell. At least I'd be carefull about that. I wouldn't want to teach him to be a snitch. I think I'd extract him from the situation. I'd drive him to school myself.

I had two girls. About the time they were going to start into a Church School in 1st grade, I told them that sometimes boys will try to touch them inappropriately, and then I showed them how to deliver an effective blow to the stones. One young kid, aged 9 offered to grab my 7 year old. Sheshoved him backwards and said, "I have my Dad's permission to kick you where it will hurt the most." and took up a fairly aggressive defensive position. He stepped forward, not to be run off by a 'dumb girl' and received a sound nut crunching kick in the stones.

My daughter got a detention for violence on the playground. She served it out without complaint. She told me about it and I went and talked to the kid's Dad. It never happened again, to either girl.

Nothing wrong with kids being taught the judicious use of self defense techniques.

Same for me and my kids and I had to go to bat for my oldest Grandson a couple of years ago on this.

He was on the bus and this guy had been on his azz for weeks along with a couple of buddies. This day the kid got in Johnny's face and took a swing and Johnny decked him right there. Got called to the school and there he sat with a nice shiner and skinned knuckles. The vice principal tells me he will be suspended for a week and have to go to counseling for anger management. Now this had been documented as to him being harassed and bullied for the past several weeksand there was video of the other kid swinging first. So I told the suit behind the desk this was unacceptable and I was filing charges of battery on the other kid and would consult my attorney about a possible lawsuit against the school. This would be for the school not acting before the fight happened as I had all the documentation of the reports & complaints to the school of the witnessed history of contributing factors and would subpoena the tape from the bus. To finish the story, all suspensions assigned to Johnny were lifted and counseling was "waived" do to "extenuating circumstances". You can buck the "zero tolerance" system and win if you are in the right and keep your cool. BTW the perp in this case was moved to an "alternative facility" after a 3 week suspension and counseling.

Clos,

This is a situation in which you have to win. No maybe about it. Your kid gets bullied and defends himself he will get kicked out of school, win or lose. He doesn't defend himself it will get worse not better. He gets older and defends himself criminal charges can and will ensue if he defends himself.

Those are the rules the school plays by.

The rules to win by:

If there is bullying YOU report it in person and directly to the principal. You demand it never happen again and that appropriate action be taken to ensure that it does not happen again. Or you will guarantee that the school enforces it's own policies. Those words. No others.

The bullies will be suspended. There will be a monitor on the bus. The next incident will be an expulsion for them. Your son must absolutely understand the rules! He must be tough enough to face it and not respond himself. The state mandates that you send the child to school. The school has policies to provide a safe place for your son. Failure to enforce those policies is grounds to nail them in court and they know it well. Your presence with the principal and the principals agreement that the school has that obligation is the legal basis for a fraud case against them if they fail. Your lawyer need only raise the prospect of the district being required to pay for education at a private institution that does enforce it's policies to have their full and undivided attention. Fraud will not be covered by the district's insurance carrier. The state's mandate for education, your payment of taxes for the education and the school's misrepresentation if they do not follow through all the way are the elements you need to complete the case.

I had a similar situation a few years ago. My son was on the receiving end of a loud mouth bully and his tough guy act. When I finally found out what was going on I made a call to the school.
I informed the school as to what was going on. I was given the usual, I'll look into it BS. After a few days nothing had changed. I called the Principal again and asked him what he had done to remedy the situation. I was told that he hadn't had time and would look into it as soon as he could.
That's when I got pissed. I told him that he and his school have a "Zero Tolerance" policy and SO DID I. I told him that I will not tolerate any more verbal or physical attacks on my children. I told him that he and his school have a legal obligation to provide their students with a SAFE environment and they were not living up to that obligation. I told him that I had instructed my son to protect himself from any further violence while on school property. I told him that if the school was unwilling and unable to provide a safe environment my son would be forced to protect himself and that defending oneself is not a punishable offence, whether you are 5 or 50.

HERE,HERE,I TOTALLY AGREE.

We had a similar experience on the bus when my twins were in the third grade. They only ride the bus home. Grades are seperated on the bus and this one fifth grader was always getting in the other kids face. Well one day Garrett, a good size boy for his age, got tired of seeing the little guys getting harrassed by this fifth grader and he gets up, calmly walks over to where this guy is seated and he bops this guy on the thigh with his fist and tells him to stop it! Well he and the other guy gets suspended for a few days from the bus and when I start communicating with the vice principle and asking to see the "video" cause I am looking to exonerate his name from being labled as a "bully child" for protecting others. The video can't be located and he doesn't have a "record" yet.
A little polite confrontation goes a long way.

You might not want to hear this, but your boy has to pop that kid right in the beak. I know they are older, but if he does it right, they'll leave him alone. It is documented that the older kids are picking on a your boy.

I was not a big kid in school so I was picked on quite a bit in 1-3 grades. While in 2nd grade, I was picked on by a 5th grader everyday for 3 days. On day 4 I got mean, and had enough, I knocked that little sucker in the nose, made it bleed. He cried like most bullies do when they are actually confronted. So his buddy started and he got one nose to match his friends. I got booted from the bus for the rest of the week, but I wasn't bothered by them again.

But, make sure he doesn't start the fight. And don't run from it, because it will get worse. This happens to every kid I think, and it is usually harder on the parents than the kids. You guys will be fine.

Clos,

Sorry to be blunt, but I think you've been handling this wrong from the start and are getting some poor advice. Most of us at the Campfire don't trust the 'system' to protect us or our loved ones and it's a folly to expect anything different from a school.

You apologized when your son was in the right, and you dragged him along with you.

Your son needs to develop a thicker skin, and learn how to fight back verbally as well as physically. Your son getting mad and breaking down in tears is completely understandable for his age, but he's going to have to get past that. His reaction is what's making it fun for the other guys.

well, its one thing to have a conflict with kids near your own age.....this is simply bullying kids half their size. the school should have the bejeebers scared out of it by lawsuit threats, as discussed above, and in that sit down with the parents of the bullies I would make it real clear that if their punk puts his hand on your kid he'll get a ride in a police car. Let the kid cost his parents some legal fees, and THEY'LL put a stop to the bullying.

there is just no way to win these days by punching the other kid out, satisfying as it might be

Steve,

You described a righteous approach to this mess with no apology letters. As a first step I agree 100% and it might even work. If it doesn't, the boy will have to learn to look the other kids straight in the eye and smile. A couple snappy comebacks wouldn't hurt either.

JOG-Good advice and it will do him well in the corporate world.
For the youngster--He needs to tell them bully kids that he�s got AIDs and one bite they will be doomed. LOL

This day and age schools are [bleep] up. When I was in elementary school, I used to love drawing. When I was in 1st/2nd grade, I drew a lot of construction stuff like bulldozers, etc. When I got a couple years older, I drew a lot of tanks, jeeps, and guns because I loved military history and reading about guns. The school psychiatrist called my mom to have a meeting. They took drawings out of my desk and talked to my mom about it, thinking I was crazy. I'm pretty sure my mom had a few choice words with them, nothing else was said about that.

A 1st grader fighting 5th and 6th graders isn't going to happen. I got in a few fights when I was younger. Got expelled for beating up the biggest kid in my grade, almost got kicked out for beating up two older bullies with a lunch tray. Best thing you could do, lecture him about what he said, and get his butt involved with wrestling. It'll do a good bit to help him.

I grew up on an inner-city Catholic school playground. Fights were expected and generally allowed to run their course. The downside was the Nun in full habit circling the fray and patiently waiting for her shot at the winner...

Now that's wisdom. Most often a guy was better off losing the fight.

TFF.

I have this picture of a Nun with her dukea up circling and yelling, " Come on punk, take a shot at me...come on boy, lets go."

Thanks, that made my day.

Sure, laugh at my nightmares. When a nun has a two fistfuls of your neck and is breathing in your face it ain't so funny...especially if she needs a shave.

The meanest of 'em all was Sister Emelda. She beat on my Dad when he was a kid in Hibbing, my older brother and me in Minneapolis. She's the only person that has wiped the floor with all three of us. Kinda embarrassing, but Sister Emelda was probably 80-years old when she dealt with me, clutching my uniform tie in one hand and biatch slapping me with the other - in the boy's bathroom no less.

Don't forget the code. If you lay down and take it then you are branded a puss and are subject for more. If you fight then you get respect, even if you loose, though you may have to do it a few times.

Another thing dad said, "Boy, if you loose, make sure that other guy doesn't walk away smiling." Basically he was saying to get a piece of him.

+1

Ok just got done reading everyone's posts, and i want to say thanks for the replies. Well first of all i am trying to teach my kid that while at school and on school property that he need to control himself. watch what he says and how he acts. now while out of school and off of school property is another story. and i will teach him not to back down and stand up for himself and his little brother who is 2. and if he does that he will have no problems from me. i am going to enroll him in either wrestling or some form of martial arts. I live in a town house development and there are a lot of kids around so in the summer as he gets older i am sure he will get practice in dealing with different situations. wish i had the money to send him to a private school, but that is not going to happen. so i will teach him when and where it is ok to deal with these kids. like don't start the fight but you better finish it, and if it happens to be at or on school property, then he ill have no problems from me. even if he gets expelled, so long as he stands up for him self.

Worked for me. Don't forget to teach the school a few things as well.

I would tell you that I would get your son into wrestling, boxing and the cub scouts. They have great freestyle programs in that area. Don't worry about your little guy. You are in good country to develop a great young patriotic American.

My kid observed another student beating the living daylights out of another kid over a psp in middle school. He calmly walked up to the kid and clipped him in the face with his book which was a softcover personal reading book. He was promptly suspended out of school for three days for assault with a weapon.

I told him that he did the right thing. I would have tanned his hide if he would have left the one kid seriously hurt the other kid.

In today's society, the aggressive kid's parents could have sought civil action against us.

Teach him to be true to his family, god and country and he will be somebody who you won't have to go down to the jailhouse to bail out when he is older.

Sincerely,
Thomas

At some point it's going to come to blows,and the boy better know enough to win or at least not get hurt.This is serious stuff.

I didn't know WTF I was doing when I tangled with an older,larger bully at age 7.He knocked me down and socker kicked me to the head when I was in a prone position.It knocked the first disc down from my brain stem out of place,which has caused me to have severe chronic migraines ever since.I have to take $3K a month in meds to just be able to function because of that SOB.

So teach the boy how to fight.Tell him to never start a fight,but if someone chooses to start a fight with him,that he needs to get mean and do everything possible to stop that person from hurting him.Otherwise he could end up like me,which ain't a good thing.

WB.