As an outdoorsman, excluding Alaska, what western state would you most like to live in? And Why?

Here are my primary interests: Hunting- all types of big game and predators, Fishing- mostly trout, steelhead and salmon via flyrod or regular rod and reel, Hiking, Camping. In that order. Take into account season lengths, regulations, license costs, draw-odds, pressure, driving distance to other good states to hunt and fish.

Also, since I'm wondering the best place to live, consider weather, population (I want to be away from people but within driving distance to some of life's conveniences), economy (tough one I know), raising a family, cost of living, freedoms (such as 2nd amendment).

Your interests or circumstances will, I'm sure, vary from my own, but if you could live in any state, what would it be?

everyone will say "live in my state" (if they like you)


think about living in easy driving distance to multiple locales.

I routinely put in for / hunt in 5-6 states, all within a 6 hour drive of my home. (I can drive to NW Montana or the Mexican border in a day).

A place with good hunting has no economy.

Name your poison.

BMT

Idaho sux, you dont wanna be here. Bad huntin, bad fshin, cold and windy........

If fishing was primary I would pick Western Wa.

Brother, you got that right. No one in his right mind would live in Idaho.

I'm thinking of moving back to California.












(Okay, really, I didn't come here from California. That was a joke. Really, put down the rope, it was just a joke...)

And there's the crux. I took a 45% pay cut to move to Idaho after searching for 12 years for something here in my field.

To be honest, it was worth every penny I didn't make.

I'm out!

See sig line.

I hate to tell you guys but Idaho might be at the top of my list. My pay here in MI, or at least the amount of work I have, has been cut to 1/10 what it was so I don't care to make a fortune, but I am into eating every day.

UtahLefty, along your train of thought, I was thinking northern Utah or Idaho (Boise area) is kind of in the middle of a lot of cool states. I just wonder if there are huge benefits to being a resident of a certain one.

Northern Utah is prettier than Southern ID.

ironbender, I have been wanting to go to Alaska for some time, I just think my wife could not handle it. She found out about the darkness in winter, not to mention the temps and length of winter, coupled with the distance away from family, I will have to settle for the next best state, hence the question.

NE Utah around Logan is definitely prettier than Southwestern Idaho unless you really like sage brush.

Plus, in Utah they give you two wives...



Okay, tongue firmly out of cheek. Boise has decent economic opportunity but our two main employers, Micron and Hewlett Packard, are just as affected by the economy as every one else, so for right now jobs are scarce. Since a lot of the jobs here were building houses for newcomers the building trades are really hurting. It's still a great city (shhh, please don't tell anyone) but with the growth spurt those that knew it even 15 years ago think it sucks now.

Yeah, 6 years ago I added to the overcrowding with my own self. But I had to move here when the little town where I used to live (Fruitland on the Oregon border) ran out of jobs for computer guys. And I went through three jobs over there with all three companies moving away or going belly up. See BMT's statment again.

One bonus in Utah is you can go salt water fishin.

I thought that in Southern Utah you get like, 4-5 wives??

stay out of Montana then....in all reality pretty much all of Montana in the winter is colder than southeast Alaska....but its a dry cold think Steelhead said he only saw a handful of days below zero while in Alaska....we will have that before December 1st....but as i said its a dry cold and contrary to what ppl from warmer climates think you can work up a sweat shoveling snow in -30

They don't give them to you. You have to recruit them yourself.

I live in Utah, and like it a lot. The climate is pretty comfortable, and the local economy is good. But the hunting is actually not that great. There are just too many people who want big game tags. OTH, it's easy to commute from here to places that have the outdoor stuff you like. (Great trout fishing on the Snake River, 3 hours; pronghorn hunting in Wyoming, about 2-3 hours; Yellowstone Park, 4 hours)

You might check out the north end of Cache Valley here in Utah, north of Logan. It's quite a pretty spot, and Idaho is only a few miles away. It's closer to all the things listed above.

I'd second the idea of looking at the Boise Idaho area. You're very close to good opportunities in three states. The climate isn't quite as nice is central Utah, but still very good. The local college has a dang good football team, and that's fun to watch.

Another good location is around Rexburg Idaho. That's the east end of the Snake River Valley. It's a pretty spot, with close access to the Yellowstone and Teton areas. Rexburg itself has a very decent climate, but colder than Boise, with a tendency toward wind. If you go east from there, you're gaining elevation rapidly, and the winters become more harsh. It's a college town, and that brings a lot of good things with it.

Also take a look at the Richland Washington area. I've done some work there. It's a growing area, with lots of outdoor opportunities.

The problem with Utah is that it's Utah, and that's tha same problem with most of Idaho outside of Boise. MMMMMMMMMormmmmmmans. As a rule they are very nice (on the surface), and also very clickish (prefer their Ward and Stake pals) and very little fun to be around. (they don't even know they are a mysogenistic cult!)

and never take a Mormon fishing. If your gonna take one, then always take two.

Not here!

Idaho...no question. Been toying with moving somewhere around Mountain Home for a while. Gonna do it while I am young and agile so I can enjoy it.

Idaho is still good (I have been here 30 years) but the hunting opportunities aren't what they once were(especially for us elk hunters) due in part to the wolf problems.

Southern Idaho is just sagebrush, rocks and desert! Now, if you get up to Stanley, you are into beautiful country!

Yup.
Twin Falls is kinda ugly, but we are close to some nice country, Stanley being one such spot.

Got Land in Montana...that is where I will be when economics don't need to come into play...but for now Colorado will be home soon.

That is a bit uncalled for. And from my experience entirely untrue.

No, I am not a member. But I know a lot of Morman's quite well. As a group they are a lot nicer to be around than most groups.

As to Western living, I admit I am a bit prejudiced toward Id after 53 years. But some of it is justified. Our big game tags are still sold over the counter. Tags are much more accessible than Or or Wa.

We can not buy two deer tags any more, and general season for deer no longer occurs during the rut in most places, but concessions must be made for the exponential population growth in the Boise valley over the last twenty or thirty years.

It is really not a bad place to live as long as you can stay outside a 50 mile perimeter to the west and south of Boise. It almost still feels like Idaho outside that perimeter.

We have a huge allotment of easily accessible public lands. Big game, small game, bird, and predator hunting abounds on the public lands. Water fowl enthusiasts do pretty well on the Snake River corridor.

Housing is easy to purchase. The subdivisions are full of short sales and repossessions just looking for new owners.

Jobs are a little hard to come by right now in the
Boise Valley and competition is stiff for the jobs which are available. But it is a pretty decent place to retire to.

Oh, and gun laws. CCw permits are fairly easy to acquire. Open carry is legal in Id. Id and Or are class III friendly. Wa is not. Id has no gun permits or registration, no waiting period, and I think the federally mandated instant check is still free in Id.

NO, NO, NO! Idaho sux!!!!
Listen to the Montana thread going right now.
Montana is where's it's at, or Utah, or Or. or Wa. or Co. or Wy.
Gosh anywhere but Idaho!

Well not real saltwater fishing.

As bad as CA is, that's the hardest thing I would find coping with, leaving and moving away from the ocean..harder than dealing with the liberal politics. If I did move out, it would probablly be OR WA, or one of the Carolinas. Salmon fishing in Idaho might ease the pain.

Wyoming and Montana have unemployment rates of about 6.5%, tied for 6th lowest in the country. They also have lots of people that believe they should take of themselves and stay out of prison, leading to relatively low tax rates.

Alaska. You have to get as far away from the nut cases on the east coast as you can. In Alaska you can get so far west, that you are more east than the east coast is.

My best friend lives in Caldwell Idaho. I visit as much as I can. I don't care much for the inbred types (which are everwhere) and the California types (which are almost everywhere)but it is really pretty. I don't care much for the hunting/fishing regulations either. You can't blow the dust of a turtles back without paying something.

I personally like the idea of Montana, though if I had to make do, Wyoming, Idaho, or Colorado would work. Only problem is finding an entry level civil engineering job in those states. Small populations aren't conducive to lots of engineering opportunities, I guess.

Yah been there what the average wage. Turned down too many jobs in that State you have to be able to make a desent living. Not a bad place to retire.

say what yah want, i may not make alot but ive got a 1900 square foot house on a lot and a half with an attached garage and shed wired for power for all of $65,000.....bought it before we came partners in the paper and were just working for a paycheck over here in one of the poorest areas with the highest unemployment in the state.....aint making a 6 figure salary but have no problem making the mortgage payment and have the time and money to hunt and fish with in the state....im happy enough with that....

I relocated to boise from the southeast after researching it for a couple of years.Looked at colorado wyoming montana utah idaho and decided on boise over colorado springs,co. because it is less populated.
The economy was just starting to slip so my timing wasn't too good -i'm back in the southeast working until this spring then i'll be moving to western oregon somewhere ? still not sure where.
From a midwestern/southeastern point of view -the hunting is so-so -there are thousands of acres of public land to hunt -it's either barren wasteland or straight up and down.
I have walked/hunted the owyhee desert for many miles and very often not see a single game animal -every once in a while you will see a pronghorn or deer .Sage sparrows and cattle with a jackrabbit/coyotes here and there.
Wyoming and montana have much higher game populations as far as where i've been -also utah gauging from passing through the northeast corner has a lot more deer.
All five of these states are expensive to live in and have low paying jobs although now you can say -pretty much no jobs generally speaking.
You will not be welcomed with open arms -people in idaho have a way of life that they are use to and are tired of newcomer after newcomer.
In talking to ppl about idaho i was told the winters are mild -buloney- snow high winds etc. ain't mild to me.
Summer time expect 90's 100's quite often and wind blowing fine dust basically no rain.The lack of rain and greenery is what i don't care for -they call boise the city of trees -yeah if you plant it and water it.
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A place with good hunting has no economy.

Name your poison.

BMT
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This is pretty much true except for wyoming but the ppl in wyoming are the least welcoming from what i have seen.
I went praire dog hunting/relocate researching there and laughed my butt off at the real estate prices -a single wide trailer [old] in the middlle of nowhere for $110K !
From what i have found about these five states -salt lake city ,ut would be the best bet.
It has all the things you mention plus a pretty good economy etc. but this research is 1 1/2 too 2 yrs old -so take it w/a grain of salt.
The western u.s. is nothing like michigan or ohio where i'm originally from if i were you i would travel there and spend a little time before just striking out.Go in the hot or cold months and see what the weather and so forth are really like ,ppl who have lived in the mountains think places like the valley [boise treasure valley] are mild.Summer time can be just as hot as the southeast but without the humidity.
Western oregon and washington state APPEAR to be very nice -green -moutainous -huge forest -elk -bear -cougar etc. about 10-12* warmer across the board in the winter than boise.
Do some reading at city-data.com -pretty good place for researching -although the kind of ppl you will get opinion from aren't ppl like here at the fire.
People will say that mormon and latter day saint folks aren't too welcoming unless you're one of them -somewhat true but no different than anybody else.
I have met great ppl everywhere that i have ever been -things are what you make of them -good luck !-Mike

Really depends on what you have to offer, when you move to a new place. Its a 2 way street. I've lived in Wyoming 25 years, and have enjoyed most of it. Yes, its less social than Michigan or other midwestern states, but it gave me what I wanted. Most likely, I'll retire back in Minnesota or Michigan if possible, to be near relatives. But my hunting, fishing younger years here in Wyoming were usually grand. There's a time for everything, like it says in the bible.

Arkansas,we shoot skeeters in varmit season.

Ah toll ya'll dis place sux.
It's either to flippin hot, or to dang cold, wind blows like hell, dusty, dry, no game much. If you get off the beatin path it's kinda remenissant of Deliverance, or yuppies from Cabela's or REI, one or taother.

Colorado is definitely the best place to move.

Definitely do NOT move to Wyoming. The people are nasty, the terrain is dull, game is hard to come by, the politics are inscrutable, and there are no jobs.

Trust me, I've done the research.

Funny thing living in the west , everyone lives here for the same reasons pretty much. So if you have big hunting dreams...so does EVERYONE else , and I mean everyone. I saw a pickup from Florida in one of my elk holes during archery season this year...Florida...[bleep] me.

Colorado used to be a great place. Its been overrun by left coasters.

Hunting is decent with a variety of game. But compared to the southern states hunting isn't as good.

3 short seasons for Deer and Elk. Both at the same time. Short Archery season in the Mountains same with muzzle loader. You can get 2 deer and elk but only if you do the hunt a certain way. If I get a general archery license for either sex i'm out of any rifle season. All deer license's are a draw.

Kind of a PITA.

Plus its fairly expensive to live here.

I hear there are openings in california though.

Used to elk hunt the Selway along the Lochsa river area; it pretty much decimated now.

MM

I dont know about the idaho thing, i have lived there 20 years moved to ne montana last spring, idaho has lots of people, everywhere you go there will be someone in front of you and behind you, overrun with 4wheelers that think they can go anywhere they please anytime of the year, nows a good time to buy a house there, i will sell you my extra one,,,,,, jobs in the construction- realestate non existint, huge migratory work force that present there own problems, excellent fly fishing on the owyhee river in oregon, virtually no deer or elk, compared to the past few years, poor upland bird opportunity, i used to shoot over 200 chukar a year there, not any more, idaho fish and game will end up having a draw for all big game if they want to have any populations at all, just like oregon and nevada, so you wont get to hunt every year even though you live there, i have mules, to get away from the people in the hills, spent a few years on the nevada idaho border, great place out there in the shadows of the jarbidge wilderness, pocatello area has about anything you need closer to other states to hunt in though,eastern montana western north dakota, jobs, housing, hunting , warm water fishing, 30 below for a few weeks and some wind, i lived in murtaugh idaho a while, more wind there and felt nearly as cold,i can shoot a limit of phes and sharptails most days, a handful of does, choice of a good mulie or white tail buck, few elk around, my friend and i harvested a bull last week archery gear, i dont if this is the best place but i wouldnt move to the boise valley for a free house and 70,000 year job ,ever,i have thought montrose or grand junction if i was to move, thought about arizona, but maybe a little to hot, i would be careful about the idaho deal unless you like people, gridlock, pushing and shoving in the grocery store, thiefs in the night, loud stereos and big chrome wheels,,,,

If you like living in San Diego, move to Boise. Boise is simply a conglomeration of liberals from Seattle, Portland and San Diego, mixed in with a bunch of other liberals from California. The place has been destroyed. It used to be a small beautiful town.

I grew up outside of Boise when it was small, will never go back. An example. Meridian went from roughly 500 people to roughly 50,000. That should be a clue.

Personally I would move to Wyoming. (sorry to my Wyoming friends). There are still many great places in Wyoming. Idaho has simply been discovered and overrun with jackasses on 4 wheelers.

Ca used to be a great place until it was overrun by the rest of the country.

Yeah, doctors have no clout here...except maybe in Jackson. Don't need no dang doctors anyways....

I would definitely advise any of you looking for a nice western state to move to to pick New York. (Please Dear God, Please! Send them there)

I bet Idaho.

I do really like living in WA but I'm surrounded by libtards.

I know you said AK is out of the mix, but it's worth seeing if the wife can handle it. The key is being active in the winter, and Hawaii is a non stop flight from Anchorage.

I couldn't imagine living anywhere else, though I have been thinking about a winter place in the Bahamas.

I cant complain about northern Utah. I am central to great hunting, I can be in NoCal in 12 hours for fishing, or MT,WY,OR,CO,NM,AZ,NV in the same time or less.

But I have found towns in every western state that would suit me, like Dillon MT, Lander WY, soda springs ID, Eagle CO (one of my favorite's) Elko NV, the list could go on for a few pages.

Soda Springs Idaho is an interesting spot. Very nice area. Not overrun with people. It's at a bit of elevation, so winters might be a little harsh. But I like Soda.

And it really does have a soda spring. World's only carbonated cold water geyser.

Washington hands down. Best fishing I've ever encountered. Some hunting, but close to all the western states. East side of the state only. West side is a california clone.

Thanks

California was indeed a great place. Nearly all the population increase in the past twenty or thirty years is from immigration, both legal and illegal. Think if you could turn the clock back to when it was reasonable. I remember the "Christmas in California" specials with Dean Martin and seeing Ronald Reagan out there on his ranch. A truly magical land that has been ruined by humans. Sad.

Colorado has too many taxes. Now they add taxes and you don't get to vote on any of them. You even have to pay a tax on storm water which you can not use. Place is full California geeks and gangs.

You guys know I get defensive when all the California bashing starts.
I just returned to my country home in Northern California from Wyoming.
Damn the weather is nice here.
While in Wyoming my 16 year old kid says to me "Dang dad, you just can't get away from other hunters here".
All easy access is jammed with dudes in orange.
Unless you have horses or backpack several miles in, you have company if you hunt public land.
EVERYONE hunts it seems like.
Every Pickup has a quad in back with guys wearing orange.
Utah is even worse, way worse.

Yeah the lefty freaks here suck, but western Washington is just as bad.
BUT, if you can find a nice chunk of property to live on here in the north, then get to know your neighbors, life is very good indeed.

Two buck tags a year (and easy to fill if you have connections), tons of turkeys, great waterfowl & pheasants in the rice fields.
NOTHING short of Alaska compared in the fishing dept till they closed salmon season...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...few_of_this_year_s_fish_pics#Post1048764

The salmon population has crashed before, I do hope it comes back again.
We still have steelhead, trout & ditch pickles though.

The thing with Cali is you can still make good enough wages to travel to your outdoor destinations, just be prepared to be hated because of the licence plate you wear....(I say fugg em)
You can be at the ocean, the waterfowl marshes or the snow covered alpine mountains in the same day
The urban areas of EVERY state simply drive me insane, Boise, SLC, Anchorage, Cheyenne, Denver, Missoula or San Francisco I don't care where it is it sucks.
You can still live a country lifestyle here in northern California and there are still good folks here, don't let the others fool you.
I suppose I would be elsewhere if single, but my family keeps me here and I make the best of it.

I wouldn't know where "the best western state ro live in". That covers way too much territory.

As much as I dislike California as a state, it had good fishing, good hunting, and good scenery. But I'm glad to be back in Boise.

If you want to, or have to live in a metro area then Boise is better than others. At least I wouldn't leaving here for another metro. Just live close to work.

If I was leaving here I'd consider Ontario Oregon, or the Lewiston Idaho areas. Technically Ontario is in the Boise Metro area.

If your inclined to work Corrections consider in Ontario. It has the biggest prison in Oregon. Idaho Corrections pays so low you'd need a seperate income just to afford to work for them.

salmonella,

If you need a king salmon fix in the saltwater, I'm hanging up my guiding hat, and just fishing for fun all summer long in 2010. Just tell me when you're showing up..

Thanks Cal,
My son & I were planning a DIY trip on the Kenai next year in October for some giant rainbows.
A lot depends on what tags show up in the mailbox next year.
Thanks for the offer.
You truly are one of the good guys!

South East Washington State. You are next to Idaho and Oregon. Take you pick woods, desert or mountains. I wouldn't mind if the west side fell off, a bunch of liberals and democrats.

I detest southern California, norther California should be a separate state. From the worst $hit bird people in the southern part of the state to the finest people you will ever meet in your life, northern folks are just down right special people. What happened? It must be the water that makes the difference.

The difference is so dramatic that you think you just entered the twilight zone.


I really don't know that much about the fishing, but the people up north are sure a fine lot of folks.

Reminds me of a time about twenty years ago. We had some corporate guys doing some work at our facility. One of them, after following me around for a couple of shifts, offered me work in S Cali at "3 times what you're making here".

I asked him if I could support my life style in Cali at the promised wage.

"I don't know, what is your life style?"

"I want my own piece of ground. 20 acres minimum. Space to raise my own beef and keep a few horses. No neighboring houses for at least 1/2 mile. The ability to shoot high power rifles safely from my front porch. Nobody close enough to needlessly call the cops if it becomes necessary to spank one of my kids. Elk and deer hunting, with a high likelihood of success, and a low likelihood of tripping over other hunters within an hour drive. Streams, rivers, and lakes to fish within an hour drive."

Oh, and by the way, I value time with my family, so I do not want to spend more than 40 minutes daily commuting."

The California corporate guy shook his head and admitted I could not even come close to meeting my needs in California at 3 times money I was then making in Idaho. (Well actually I work just over the river in Eastern Oregon and live in Idaho.)

It is hard to beat western washington. just stay out of the cities and away from the sniveling liberal in it!

how's northwest nevada? just popped in my head, thought i'd ask.........

Cool thing about Nevada is that you can rent two wives...

I don't know about NW Nevada, but the Walker River area south of Minden/Gardnerville NV, going toward Bishop CA is terrific. In fact, Bishop CA is spectacular. It's the anti-LA.

I lived between Minden and Carson City for several years, and liked it a lot. That was 25 years ago, but I could hike to a gravel dig about 1/4 mile from my house and target shoot undisturbed. We used a wood stove to supplement our gas heat, so I'd go cut a cord or two of pinion pine every year. There is a strip about 1/2 to 1 mile wide along the western side of the Sierras that is kept quite green with runoff. Lots of really nice hiking spots and great scenery around there.

Bishop is nice!
I like that whole area, from Bishop down through Lone Pine.
If I had to live in California again, I could be pretty happy in that area.

Isn't that like two too many?

Are you nuts? You serious? Let's see Northern California = San Francisco, Oakland, Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein, Newsome, Jerry Brown

Southern Calfornia = Reagan, Orange County Republicans.

Northern NV aint bad. We got our share of Californians around Reno, but otherwise it's quite nice. Economy not real good right now, but that will return to normal.

I think you are both wrong, it is coastal vs. inland. Almost the whole coast is liberal, inland conservative.

Another problem in idaho is ppl posting public land as private.
It took me a year to get to the bottom of what was what as far as public land.
If you went by the posted signs you would think that there is no public land from boise to canada.
On the 4wheeler statement -yes they piss me off to no end -you can be hunting and 4-wheeler punks will see where you are headed and ride over and check it out before you can walk there-mighty nice of them !!!
Many places within 100 miles of boise are -well i can't think of a word for it -guys roll up with their z-71 with mag wheels -unload their 750 POlaris wildcat 4x4 wheeler then go "hunting" with their weatherby 300 MAG ballistictip nighmare bullets w/ tasco super duper 8x32-56 scope.Just ride around all day long disturbing everybody they can.
Colorado's front range would be much worse because there are droves more ppl.
From the time you get to colorado springs all the way to cheyenne ,wy it is nearly none stop subdivisions =not for me although you would stand a better chance for a job.

If i were in michigan and had family there -i would consider some place as far west as western iowa/missouri or eastern kansas/nebraska.Plenty of deer hunting -woods -job opportunities
and a days drive to the west if you draw a tag.
What i thought "out west" would be -is gone .

If you could fly over the midwest -southeast south central and count the number of game animals with infrared there would be hundreds of times more animals than what i have seen in idaho.
If you are retired with a good income you could find a place in one of these states -but i'm not nearly ready for retirement and have to be around ppl to make a living.
Also many roads are closed throughout the winter months so any thoughts of hunting many of the wild spces will take a snow machine to get to or hours of walking.

Mike,

Most of the activities you described are illegal. There is a pretty hefty fine for posting public ground. And it is illegal to take 4-wheelers off of the designated trails.

Have you ever reported any of this activity?

Our favorite hunting spots still see little traffic. But then we have to start hiking about three hours before shooting light to get to the good part of the mountain before dawn.

No motorized vehicles allowed past our camping spot, and most hunters are far too lazy to get to where we hunt.

I've been in WY for 10 years and like it, but it is no paradise. You have to look at where the capital of the state is and how that is going. As the capital goes so goes the rest of the state.
All the southern CA libs moved to Denver and F#@ked up that whole state. Now the libs can't stand what they made and are moving to Cheyenne. Once they take over the politcs of Cheyenne I will be forced to live under their rules even though I am 450 miles away.
The northern CA libs moved to Olympia/Seattle and Salem/Portland and hence even the people on Spokane and Bend have to live by the stupid philosophy of the capital city.
ID is getting ruined by $$$ form the libs in CA and AZ.
AZ is behind enemy lines because we won't secure our southern border.
NM is bordering on third world status.
NV would be a possible option but I'm guessing CA libs are moving to Carson City so it won't take long and NV will be like CO.
UT has a lot of people. If you are not connected in the LDS church - good luck.
MT looks promising especially with their "in your face" governor. Finally a polititian that knows what the 10th admendment means.
NE - too flat.
TX/OK - I don't consider western states. Besides if you don't speak spanish - good luck!

Looks like you are left with ND, MT, NV and in that order. I've never been to AK so my opinion would be worthless. When WY gets like CO - I may head to AK.

Montana sucks- horrible winters, too many rattle snakes, grizzlies, hunting and fishing all shot to hell, roads are dangerous, houses cost $500,000 for a starter, can't get a resident license until you have lived here five years, people are unfriendly, poor TV and cell phone reception, no pro ball teams
Utah is good-

My wife and I use to dream about moving out west. Always pictured wide open areas with pine as far as the eye could see and a creek or stream around every bend. Flew out 12 yrs ago to scope the area around Colorado Springs(100 mile radius).

After seeing housing costs, number of people, job opportunities, etc,. we quickly changed our plans. Realized back east ain't so bad and in much of Pa, Oh and middle/western NY a fella could buy very good land with excellent hunting for around $1,500/acre(up to around $2k +/-). Sure jobs were harder to come by and paid less but the cost of living was so low it more than made up for it. There's also the added benefit of knowing Californians will never look at this area to overrun.

Just saying sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Hawaii

Nice place to visit in the winter for a few days. But way too many libtards to live there for any extended time.

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Idaho Shooter -I have not reported it and after reading my own post -i sound like i am talking about idaho as a whole.I'm talking mostly about sw of town -owyhee area -i like to go hunting often and not drive 120 miles when i do.
I am mostly a predator hunter and of course prefer to do it when it cools off unfortunatly that's when deer/antelope season starts then there are orange vests everywhere you look.
I go up and hunt near warm lake/mccall region and do find some good areas that don't have a lot of ppl in them -and you are right most hunters are too lazy to walk any distance.
Road hunters can and are a blessing if you do some scouting -hunt the thick areas that are out of sight of the road and you will get your quarry.

North Idaho is ok. It's hard to get a good job though. They don't do a good job of plowing the roads in the winter. Instead of plowing during the storm to keep on top of it they wait till the storm is over. Then you have 5 inches of packed snow to try to drive on. We also get a lot of crime spilling over from Spokane. Idaho also nails you with both an income tax and a sales tax. At least in MT it's just an income tax and WY is just a sales tax. I'm working on getting in better shape so I can get a better job again and moving to MT or WY.
It's too bad it's nice country up here, mountains, snow, and forest but you just can't get ahead up here.

You might want to check out the Black Hills area of SD. 2 species of deer, elk, Mt. Lion, grouse, prairie dogs and fine trout fishing in the streams and lakes. Drive a little and shoot pheasants, more grouse, ducks and geese, catch walleye and salmon in the Missouri river. The employment scene is what you make of it. Good folks, no income taxes. Banana Belt weather with some great chinooks warming up the area. Snow for skiing and snowmobiling, too.

Barkoff; as usual, you're doing a good job of defending us Calif folks. THANKS!! If they don't care for it here, stay the hell out! Pretty simple. 340boy and denton: Been all over Minden, Gardnerville and Bishop. Have you ever been to Woodfords,Ca.? Damn nice place there. Small, got everything I'd ever need. Again Barkoff, thanks, you say it better than I could. Tom

Arizona and New Mexico really SUCK!

GTC

California has gotta be the place, no doubt about it.
Thirty-seven million plus, something has just gotta to be a special attractant there.

Shutup , dammitt............

I like the Black Hills, too. But, isn't it a hard draw even for residents?

I share your concerns. The bad economy is kind of a blessing in that regard because a lot of the people who were moving here were "equity immigrants" who cashed out in high end states. With the real estate crash, there are less potential immigrants these days. We also see people from places like coastal areas of California who move into a nice house in the country during the summer, then experience climate shock when winter rolls around. Some of these people are looking to move within 2-3 years We actually need more people who think like us to move here, and we can hold on to our lifestyle for longer.

Aside from the potential downside, we really like it here and will stay as long as encroachment in the form of liberal politics or crime does not become a problem.

Our playground in the mountains is hour and a half away. Hunting seasons are too short compated to the south, but the variety of species allows us to string along different seasons and get something approaching two and a half months if we bowhunt. We don't get into snowmobiling, but there is a long season for that. There is no income tax, sales taxes are reasonable, property taxes are reasonable, and the state will pay for a good chunk of residents' college tuition at UW. Living in the southern part of the state, if we just have to have a big city fix, we are 45 minutes from Fort Collins and an hour and a half from Denver. When we have to go somewhere, we fly out of Denver International Airport.

yeah , elk are a tuff draw .

Ya beat me to it... Stay the heck outta SD.. It really sux.. No one would wanna live there, uh, no one.... Windy, dry, no roads, no people - it really sux.. Ignore my sig.. Wife's makin' me do it.. yada yada yada..

Virginia or Tennessee they are both West of DC

Precisely.......

remington79 You must be new to Idaho. The snow plowing is way better then it used to be.

Perhaps this will be a cleansing winter........

Ya want good snow plowing??? Come, all ye faithful, to TAX HELL WISCONSIN.

Six flakes of snow touch the ground and the squadron of salt trucks, idling on 'plus-five', scream out of the shops - boxes up, salt a-shakin and sparks comin' from the plow blades to ensure not a FLAKE OF SNOW remains anywhere between the ditch lines..

It just pizzes me off.. No wonder people have no idea how to drive in winter anymore because we're not ALLOWED to drive in winter conditions here..

You forgot Kansas.

This year there were left over elk licenses after the first draw. They all went away in the 2nd draw. Probably cow tags, but still probably not as tough a draw as WY-MT units. Non-residents are not allowed to hunt elk in SD outside of the reservations.

From the GFP page:
2009 Leftover Elk Licenses

The 2nd draw for elk has been completed and there are no leftover tags for the 2009 season.

The Idaho Panhandle beautiful country anywhere from Moscow North. Parts of Idaho North and East of Spokane are a bedroom community for Spokane with world class hunting and fishing and in most cases it doesn't get to hot in the summer or to cold in the winter. All you have to do is cross the border into the Spokane area and employment prospects are good and at livable wages. If you want Salt water fishing Puget Sound is Six Hours away and the Washington/Oregon Coast another three to four hours away.

I've been here for about 2 years BlueDuck. I find Hayden and Dalton Gardens is much more on top of the game than CDA. My wife and I moved up here about 2 years ago from Texas. I grew up in Northwest CT (yes its actually rural and the only red county in the state) so I have seen some winters. I just have to laugh when I hear on the news that theres 4-5 inches of snow on the ground and everyone is calling for a snow day. Growing up 4-5 inches of snow on the ground meant a 60 minute or 90 minute delay. I find the winters here mild compared to what I grew up with.

One of the gun rags (maybe Outdoor Life) says Lewiston, Id is the #1 place to be. If you bring a job with you there is probably a niche, home of Speer/Blount/etc... good fishing at the door in the Snake & Clearwater, hunting just out of town, waterfowel, big game, AND it is a seaport @ about 800 ft above sea level. warmer too.
If I wasn't here I'd be somewhere around there for a base of operations.
MC

I would have said Montana but they just passed a moritorium on any new arrivals. I think I was the last one through the door