Received another email today relative to my tedency to bash A-Bolts. The writer was pissed that I had once again bad-mouthed "The best rifle ever made, designed by the best gun inventor the World had ever seen." (sic) The writer says he lives in Georgia.

I am sure many know where I went with my rather curt response already... And John Browning was long dead before the A-Bolt took over from the BBR which took over from a Mauser. Oh, and I have a lot of John Browning designed firearms and many are branded as such. I simply find the A-Bolt an insult to the good name.

But it got me to thinking about the numbers of Browning logos one sees across the South, especially toward the East half of the South. We even see them around here. Brownings are legendary and Southerners are loyal to their Brownings just like their churches.

I have personally witnessed more than a few Protestant Southerners defending Brownings (of course they may have been defending them from me!) with serious emotion.

Yet John Browning was not so well received in person in Georgia during the two years he spent there in 1887 and 1888, IIRC. His companion was even tarred and feathered while John was fast enough to outrun the mob.

At the age of 32 JB (interesting initials, no?) was sent to Georgia on a mission by the Mormon Church. I feel like Paul Harvey popping the "Rest of the Story." The numbers of Buckmark-logoed-pickups prove he found acceptance down South after all.
art

Thanks for an interesting piece of history.

I have had 3 A Bolts for about 20 years now..

I have always liked them. Thought they were overpriced somewhat.
My three were bought on sale after deer season ended, for about $350.00 each back in 1992.

they have given me reliable service.

The 30/06 was passed down to Seafire Jr on his 14th birthday, as he wanted an 06, and it was light enough for him to be happy with. All three have been good shooters.

"...was passed down to Seafire Jr on his 14th birthday..."

Around these parts we call that child abuse!

I know a lot of people that have the buckmark on their truck. It has nothing to do with Browning. It is a way of saying you like to hunt. Much like the fish symbol on a car means your a Christian.

TFF Art. A man could choke on Brownings and logos in this part of the south.

I don't think that the Browning name or logo found a home in the south because of the A Bolt. There was a time when the Browning trademark was synonymous with Cadillac. Top shelf.

And there were more than a few WWII vets that used John Moses' toys with great success.

Where I grew up in Arkansas nearly all the quail hunters used a 12 gauge hump backed Browning Auto. miles

It's Browning's Trademark

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, seems like you gave your strong opinion to try an get others upset with you due to your insulting innuendos. I am not from the south nor do I have any stickers so I guess I don't fit you image personna. Guess you just wrecked my day, 8-)

Exactly.

If anything, the A-bort is successful down South because of the rest of the old Browning line-up was that good, and folks think the A-bort can match that (mistakenly, of course).

The Browning Sweet Sixteen was, and in many places still is, considered THE bird gun down here. That, and the A-5, ruled bird fields and deer drives. If you didn't have an L.C. Smith, Parker, or Winchester side-by-side, the Browning autos were the only thing that matched them for 'cache'.

That legacy, gave the A-bort a chance.

As for JB's Mormon mission, we might have been better off if it'd taken root as firmly as his firearms.

Just sayin'.............

When we first started going to North Carolina to rifle hunt, my buddy had just won an A Bolt .30-06 in a card game up in Maine. Some poor guy in deer camp went home without a rifle...... or as the story goes. It had a bunch of little locking lugs like a Weatherby, which my gunsmith taught me to run away from. I wasn't crazy about the high gloss finish on the wood, the box magazine inside the floorplate, the gold trigger or the light weight either. The rifle kicked pretty hard. He had a recoil reducer added and a trigger job done after the first range session. He carried it a couple years, sold it to a friend (to buy a Sako TRG) and he still carries it. It shoots well enough to take his deer year after year. He bought a new one with the trapezoidal bolt. I think it has 3 solid lugs now. It's in .22-.250 and he had a trigger job on that one too. It's funny but I shot one in .338 Win and it seems they are all about the same size. There's something eerie about touching off a .338 in light gun. He offered to sell it to me. I had no need for one. They're not for me, but the 3 I've seen shot fine.


By the way, in 18 years of hunting in N.C., I only saw 1 other hunter with a Browning. The most common rifles in our deer camp were Savages and I think the price had something to do with it. They were often painted up camo with Krylon or the like, but the barrel nut would give them away.

Agreed, but no worse than Sako and Weatherby groupies. The A-5 is almost exclusively responsible for the Browning reputation in the South. I also agree with your assessment of the A-Bolt.

You also seem to be missing that Browning is a very big name because of its archery line as well.

Browning bows have been very popular over the years...and I don't think that JMB had much to do with compound bows

Aqualung

Note: emphasis added


A bunch of little lugs makes me think BBR, earlier than the A-Bolt.

I didn't miss it, nor the BAR and 1911's, which were the most popular battle weapons of the early 20th Century. But when you say "Get the Browning" down south, everybody knows it is the old humpback auto-5 shotgun. It's not what everybody had, but it is what everybody wanted...

Had they known the great things to come from the man, the whole southeast might be Morman now.

+1.

For the most part, many of the dove hunters I know here have either a stevens sxs or an A-5 (many are 16's) - properly plugged of course.

As for the sticker, I'd wager that the balance of the girls in pink neons with the roxy butterfly don't have the matching tattoo.

I'd need verification on that, though.

Many people, not just Southerners, don't take too kindly to Mormons. JB would have probably received a much better reception if he had been a Presbyterian.

The Browning-made A5, Superposed, .22 Auto, various pistols, and Mauser bolt actions put a very good taste in the mouths of most of the people I know who have owned and shot them. They have always been worthy firearms that instilled brand loyalty.

I feel much of that brand loyalty has been diluted as the Browning name has become associated with things other than those fine firearms. I have some Browning spinning reals that are hardly worth taking out of the store. I do have two A-Bolts and have shot several others. They are uniformly accurate and reliable in my experience. They do not, however, give me the same pleasure of ownership my old Safari 30/06 or my various A5's do.

rob p - ha ha , I love my A-bolt and am from the south. I won't get into a pi**ing match about it- shoot what you like, and shut the hell up is my motto. Me rely writing Rob because my A-bolt is krylon painted camo and I got a chuckle out if that. Have a lease partner who got one as a gift and wants me to paint it- and his Glock, and another his Rem 870. I agree A-bolts are smallish and lightweight, two things I love about them- but they can kick on the hard side.

I know y'all hate on my A-bolt but I do have a B 92 in 44mag I will get down right fiesty about. Love that thing- opinions??? Wife has a buckmark 22 pistol I rather like too. No - I am not a Browning slut nor have a buckmark sticker on my truck....but thinking abuot getting one now.

I have only owned 2 Brownings, one that BDM 9mm pistol that came out in the early 90s-that thing was a piece of junk, no other way to put it.
I also owned(can't remember the name) a Browning 22 rifle semiauto, that ejected spent cases downward, of all things.
Not impressed with that either.

The above being said, I would not mind a Citori 28ga or an Auto5 sometime.

I have no need or desire to own an 'A-bort.'

can we really say "Browning Made" about anything??? After the first 20 single shots in 1880 or whenever it was, has the browning company ever actually manufactured anything?

JBM invented or at least popularized outsourcing and offshore outsourcing.

at first he sold designs to winchester and other companies

then he went to Belgium and got the factory or factories in Liege to manufacture products that he imported and sold with his name on them.

to this day that is Browning's primary business model.

Most manually operated long guns are made in japan, by Miroko I believe (except for some high end O/U shotguns). This includes the A-bolt, the Citori, the winchester reproductions etc. Most semi-auto long guns are made in europe by FN I think (browning's parent company). the HP pistol is marked Belgium/Portugal.

I don't know where in the US the .22 pistols are made, those actually could be designed by Browning Engineers and made in a browning owned plant.

Offshore outsourcing is a modern business practice. That doesn't make it right (nor does my political opinion necessarily make it wrong).

But I have a personal ethical problem with putting my name on something designed or built by someone else.

Is it not fraud or plagiarism to put the Browning name on a product built by miroku? Or to wear a Miroku employee badge and stamp Browning on something you just built? (Or to put the motorola name on something made by flextronics?, or the Chevrolet name on something made by Daiwoo? or whatever... the possibilities are endless)

just an opinion.

Poole

I owned an A-Bolt 280 for a while. It shot fine, but I could not get over some of the things about. Mainly the angular receiver just didn't look right. I also own an early Citori which I always thought was too heavy and kind of clubbish. On the other hand, I have a 1960's era High Power that is a work of art. Feeds smoothly, is beautifully finished and balances in my hand perfectly. Then I made the mistake of buying a 2005 High Power 40 S&W. Piece of junk, no balance and looked like it was finished with a paint brush. Big disappointment!

I must say that even though I have never had any problems with the A-Bolts I own, I will be carrying a M70 Winchester, a Browning Safari, a M77 Ruger, or a custom Mauser when I go out to Alaska, Colorado, Canada, or any other place out of state for a hunting trip.

I have a .325WSM A-Bolt that is light and accurate as a laser but that kicks worse than any gun I have.

edit: You want a real piece of strange gun design from a mainstream company? Look at a Browning B2000. I have one that belonged to my uncle and can understand why they quit making that model.

Had one of those fine POS 20 gauge when I owned a really great Brittany. Good thing that dog held his points well because it was essentially a single shot.. Sent it back to Browning after visiting a service center and they could not consistently get it to repeat fire.

IIRC, both the BBR & the A-Bolt were designed by a little slanty eyed Nipponese................& all of them were/are from the land of the rising sun.

Never owned one so I could be wrong (1st time, LOL)

MM

Fixt it for ya

Those stickers remind me for the most part of white trash with money. "I don't know anything about guns, but my rifle's shiny and expensive..."

got a buckmark tattoo on my arm. i do like browning but the symbol stands for my love of the outdoors, for freedom (it's red white and blue) and for love of my country.

maybe that's what some people stick 'em on the car for.

i do need to buy a browning though, gotta match ya know.

Man, that DEFINES a guy that I know,....he's got a really BADLY injured shoulder,....but will NOT abandon his Weatherby Manglum
(with which he can't hit jack, I've NEVER seen a worse flinch)
....over a few cold ones, the mystique of that rifle grows to legendary proportions,......

GTC

Question:

Why would a rifle someone buys with their own money concern some far northern idiot?

Answer:

I don't know, ask Sitka Deer.

JohnMoses
Not sure where that came from, but expect no quarter.
art

o.k., then how about a dollar?

Sitka, you trouble maker you. I did indeed already know JB's history, but you did bring a smile to my face with your post.

I suspect there are many that would agree there is some irony there.

LOL! I agree!


Also, I'll never understand why someone would want to own a rifle made in Japan.
That's akin to wanting a samurai sword made in America or Belgium.

It's just not the real thing

Guessing you are not the brightest and likely bought one of those fancy glossy A-Borts and feel all protective... And at the same time go to church on Sunday and listen to the denunciation of "cults". I can see where that might stress someone with a lack of balance.

I never understood why some men behave like little ol' ladies tending to someone elses business.

Don't let it bother you.

I see where you are pearly white on that count.... Not!

I really like my A-bolt and on a good day it will shoot just as good or better than my Sako or my Remington. It's also nice and light which makes it a real joy when hiking 10+ miles a day hunting elk.

It's certainly isn't the end all of rifles, but I do believe I'll keep it.

I.Q of 143

Bachelors degree in English and History.

Masters in History.

Please Try again.

Considering the context of your post it is a little mind boggling when thinking about Baptists and Buckmarks in the same thought.

A Bolts - what 700 owners customize their rifles trying to equal.

Oh, I almost forgot, I'm Catholic.

We don't have sitdowns like little old ladies and discuss cults or everyone elses business at Church.

Like you and few other ladies do around here.

Never thought of replacing 700 trigger parts with pot metal!

Don't you have a knitting party to attend?

Out of the heart the mouth speaks...

So I take it you own Jap made pot metal?

A bunch of them.

Please read my signature line.

Pot metal? - try solid gold man. Honestly, I don't care for the shiny stock that much (replaced all but one with McMillans) and as you have stated before the enclosed trigger group isn't optimal, but I can't argue with my own personal experience. My oldest ABolt is 25 years old and hasn't had one issue with a lot of years of hard use. It as accurate or more so than any factory 700 I've seen and it fits me like a glove. So, while there are better designs out there, the ABolt is far from the worst. Now the X-Bolt is an ugly POS!!

Bless your heart John Moses,

If you like (jap made) Brownings I'm happy for you.


edited to say jap made as there is a difference from real Brownings.

You certainly keep it well hid.

Oh, and plenty have more. Much more.

I do and thanks. I hope you are satisfied with yours as well.

JM

I can see why that would appeal to you, as it certainly is an apt description of you.

Hope you are not including yourself and the granny gossipers in that group.

You ol' bitties better stick to checkers and discussing bunion surgery.

Your well deserved public beat down is well underway.

Ranger
Hate to admit I have an A-Bolt, but a friend proved I was lying when I said you could not give me one... And that one does not have trigger parts corroding issues and it has seen a fair amount of saltwater.

There is just a bunch of luck involved in getting a decent one.
art

Coming from someone who has 2,897 post in less than a year.

I type fast Lucille.

But I will admit,

I truly enjoy reading John Moses post!

He's got good wit and a way of saying things that is pretty entertaining.

I may not be able to out talk him but I bet I could out shoot him.

You would risk getting embarrassed by a Browning?

500 yds and under and you have a bet.

I get to pick your gun and ammo and the size of your targets vs. mine.

You get an old springfield .22 I have with 26 yr. old ammo.

Naw,

All I need is a 1946 94 thutty thutty.

I have one of those as well.

That's all you need in your woods.

We'll darn, it's lunch time and I wish we in the NW here had
some good LA cajun food or LA bbq to partake of.

Catch ya later JM.

Take care,

Jm

I am betting you hope to do half as much hunting in your lifetime as this old lady has already done. Betting you have less than a tenth of the B&C class critters this old lady has shot and a small fraction of the variety. But this old lady has no need to help you out there.

But look at it this way... In 9 years here this old lady's post count per day is a third of yours. In 9 years here this old lady has hunted with dozens of folks from here, including Rick, for everything from quail to Kodiak brown bears. With posters from here we have killed a bunch of bears, deer, caribou and much more.

Being "called out" by some fool not bright enough to see around an A-Bolt, that spends a whole bunch more time posting than this old lady and being called a biddy by the biddy bitch in person is almost funny. I suggest you try again when your nuts drop.
art

Grandma,

I'm just not impressed. Next you'll be ranting about bedsores, dentures and other gross schit.

I'd feel like a damn fool as well, if my post about dumb, redneck hicks shooting Brownings resulted in me

getting my ass verbally handed to me by one of them in front of everyone.

Enjoy it super hunter! I sure am.

Your an idiot and should surrender at the 1st available opportunity to avoid further embarrasment.

Yup, you are certainly no old lady... Righhhhhhttttt....

Keith no understand eenglissh. Heeee heee!

Glad to know you are still lurking. Hope to see you back full time soon.

Boy that's a little scary.

Happy Birthday Bob!

Keep Hunting and you'll live to 100!

Remember, It's a brotherhood.

Homemade spaghetti and meatballs, salad and fresh garlic bread.

It's Too cold when you have to pee while hunting and can't find it.

If it does, you weren't really friends to begin with.

Both good rifles. Shoot both and then decide.

I have never found anything worth much but a buddy of mine found a Mastodon tooth in a creek bed.

3 cheers for Canadian Muslims.


Yeah, all of the above prove you are a very manly poster! That is just nuggets from the last few days...
art

Thanks for reading my posts.

Was painful, the Male Menopause oozing from them and all...

Speaking of menopause, weren't you on here complaining about that last week?

Grandma, I'm sure there is a support group in your area. Just bring all your B&C trophies to the meeting.

If ignorance is bliss(ful), the A-bort owners are in a fully & perpetual, euphoric state.

MM

Now that's just not true.

There are plenty of ignorant, unhappy people on here too.

Well at least you got the 1st part of that phrase right....................

MM

Browning stickered trucks definitely aren't only found in the south. I swear, just about every wannabe redneck/hillbilly has a huge buckmark sticker in their truck window. Of course, they come with the prerequisite Dale Jr., etc. stickers...

The only thing Browning I own is a BPS 10 gauge, which is an okay gun I suppose, but I have never been crazy about the A-Bolt.

I like the lines of the A-Bolt receiver and short bolt throw but upon closer inspection they are less than impressive.

I suppose they'd be fine for most but they ain't my cup-o-tea.

Didn't need fixing...

They're Marketed as Browning. I was targeting the observations that there was so much visible support for Browning (stickers on trucks, etc).

Browning has their name on so much stuff, that to figure that everyone with a Browning deer sticker on their pickup is a fan of their rifles exclusively is narrow-minded.

Sort of like wearing a cap with the DAEWOO logo on it (who would?, but it makes a point)...Is that person a fan of their guns, cars, electronic equipment, or appliances?

That was my point.

I have a RUGER license plate on my truck, but I've never fired a Ruger rifle...only handguns.

But, I don't have a dog in this fight...I've never shot an A-bolt, X-bolt, Browning bow, used a Browning knife, etc. Closest I came was firing my friend's 1911A1...

EDIT to add: I'm wrong. My Winchester 95 is a John Browning design...

Aqualung

The JMB museum isn't far from where I live, very interesting to visit.I don't believe you'll find an A-bolt amongst the exhibits tho...

I don't own an A-bolt, so I wont comment. But I have a Jap Weatherby, so I'll probably be looked at in the same light as A-bolt owners.

I do find it ironic as hell that southerners proudly display the banner of a Mormon gun genius..no doubt they haven't a clue of the history there.

In college that's what we would call a 10-40 gal.
40' they look good, at 10' it's time for a change of plans.

btw, Since I've been here, it is customary here at the Campfire to harass to the best of our ability jap Browning owners.
It's good for a chuckle to see their hackles raised.

Everytime...LOL!

Just checking this thread to make sure no-one is dissin' God's handgun.
Seems ok at the moment, but could deteriorate at any time.

We've plenty of the Browning stickered trucks around here, as well.
Only thing I can figure is that a lot of waterfowlers run Brownings as I don't see all that many A-bolts in this area?

Why would JMB being a Mormon bother Southerners anymore than people living in other sections of the country?

The South doesn't have a monopoly on racist or religous biggots ya' know. Their are plenty to be found elsewhere as well.

JM

I thought was John Brown. not Browning

Dee
Who is the grandmother here?

Pretty chickenschit to edit posts without at least admitting you could not stand behind the trash you posted earlier. It perfectly made your case you were inbred white trash without an ounce of help from me.

I also notice you have gone off on a whole bunch of posters here ever since arriving. In all the posts I read there was a remarkable absence of evidence of any real hunting done by you and a dearth of photographic evidence.

It is pretty obvious you are an imposter of the inbred redneck variety with limited capacity for rational thought and a total lack of civility.

And I suspect a wadded thong.

As to being handed my ass only because you came off real loud, you gotta be kidding. I see less evidence you are what you claim than Lee24 posts.

As to why it is surprising Southerners have so strongly embraced a Mormon genius it is the fact the Southern Baptist Church did not originate in Utah. Add the fact the fastest growing church is not making many inroads into the South and it becomes pretty obvious the average Southerner is likely more "settled" in his religion than most and less inclined to welcome the LDS missionaries.

The fact John Moses Browning was chased out of towns in Georgia and his fellow missionary tarred and feathered in 1888 or so and today the same streets are lined with pickups stickered with his name is damn funny. And it is irony at its richest.

Why are there so few SONY stickers on those same pickups?
art

They probably do not understand or know what the Mormon genius did for the US military when it came down to paying him for machineguns he not only designed and patented, but whose construction he oversaw for years at the various factories producing them. he left many millions of dollars on the table...
art

You still around here Grand Maw?

And I thought old ladies were supposed to be sweet and nice....

p.s. I changed that post to a smiley because I thought i might have been to hard on you.

I see she ran away again, must be bingo night at the Lodge...

Comeback Maw Maw,

I have only just begun to hand you your ass.

No, you knew from that post you had zero chance at redeeming your lost position.

So, are you just another Lee24 with nothing but unbased bias and bullschit and all the hunting experience you show evidence of? Which is none of course.

Pathetic you have made all the noise and shown nothing........

You have to lie because you are beaten, soundly so.

You, my freakish granny are white trash.

Stink Deer says:





It looks to me that you feel the need to make up for some short comings,

between the legs or the ears, possibly both.

Talk about unbalanced, your a wreck Grandma.

I think this was the main reason. If it costs more it has to be better right? Not with my (poor) side of the family. My dad was raised on Remingtons as was I.

Ooops, gone again. I'm sure he is consulting with some other great Jr. high minds on here to figure out what to put in his next idiotic post.

Come on Granny, I don't have all day.

P35/HP, right?




Just kidding.

I'm confused, exactly what are we arguing about? I'm all for a good verbal monkey-stomping, but I'm not following this one very well.

Is it a geographic, religious, or A-Bolt thing?

Geographic...

Quite to the contrary, I'd imagine it's precisely because what JMBrowning did for the U.S. military that southerners respect him. Southerners tend to grow up with guns and we have a higher percentage of veterans here. Plenty of old timers were familiar with the BAR (the real BAR, not that new thing) from WWII. Lots of guys familiar with the M-2 machine gun also. As mentioned before, there are a LOT of old A-5's floating around. Lots of guys like the 1911's also.

I'm sure it'll come as a suprise to many of those here who consider themselves more enlightened than we redneck hick southerners, but for the most part no one in the south really gives a $hit what religion someone practices. If you think that someone being Morman upsets us, well you're wrong, no one really cares. I'm methodist but ten miles from me is the second oldest catholic church in mississippi and it's got a lot of my relatives buried in it's graveyard. My wife was raised baptist, my best friend is a jew from georgia. I've been to the big morman temple in salt lake city, even had a cute little guide girl try to convert me while I was looking over the miniature model of jerusalem, maybe I should have let her. There are quite a few Jehovah's Witnesses running around down here also. While the rest of the nation was wringing their hands about Mitt Romney being morman and worrying about how it would affect his election chances, no one down here even batted an eye at it. I wish he had been the nominee, I liked him better than McCain and would have voted for him.

The point being that your perceptions about religion in the south are wrong. It doesn't cause nearly the divisions that you see in the northeast where things are much more divided between the catholics, episcopalians, and jews. Down here you'll know people your entire lives and never know what religion they are, it just doesn't come up that much in conversation. It's just not a way that we typically identify each other.

That being said, I don't like A-bolts and wouldn't own one. They are very popular down here and generally shoot pretty well, but I prefer M70 winchesters. Browning has become just a marketing name, but one that many associate with high quality firearms. The Japs that build browning's guns do a pretty good job, you don't tend to see the quality control problems like my remington 11-87 with the crooked receiver or a M70 I got that wouldn't feed. I think most of browning's cadillac reputation comes from folks that have owned their shotguns like the A-5 and superposed.

Thing is, I don't see compelling arguments for any of the three. It's more, "You suck" and "Oh yeah, well your momma..."

Here's my take...

West beats East, North already beat South, and Alaska prolly trumps all.

God beats Devil, Good guys beat bad guys.

For the "hunting" in "rough conditions" that 98% of people do, they wouldn't ever be able to tell the difference in an A-Bolt, Remchesterger, Montuckydero, or any one of two dozen chamberings.

Bluedreaux,

How are people supposed to get a thread to 117 pages with common sense like that?

Crow Hunter
I seriously wish you were correct in your perceptions of Southern Religious Tolerance. Certainly I can see how many could miss the intolerance in many different parts of the South by virtue of specific location, conditions, or dint of personality, but the reputation is well known and in my experience earned.

Among the indicators is the failure to grow the LDS church in the South as it has been grown almost everywhere else. Care to guess the perceptions Northerners suffer under relative to the Southern Baptist church.

And I still contend damn few people in general, even gunny sorts, realize the full scope of JMB's genius, generosity, and historical importance to the US military in all branches. After he died and Browning (the company) grew the name brand there was no attempt made to go back and point out the scads of Browning firearms designed and patented by him.

Take a trip to Belgium and look at what he did for FN and the people in the country. He was a huge national hero to them. He created the nucleus the (eventual) manufacturing giant needed and provided the blueprint for FN to assume the position of perhaps the most consistently high quality firearms manufacturing company of all-time.
art

Oh, and contrary to what I may have told someone this morning, I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the LDS church. Nor have I ever attended even a single LDS church function of any kind... But I mean no disrespect to the Church.

Dee
Please go back to being a soccer mom and leave the men alone... That is what Southern men tell you, right?

You have added nothing... here and everywhere else on 24hour... and certainly your hunting experience is very limited, and likely meager...

I will not answer again unless you actually add something... That of course would reverse the 3,000 past post history...
grandma art

Care to expound further on what you obviously know nothing about?

I live in the south and have many relatives locally that are LDS. Nobody is trying to run them out on a rail. Most southerners are pretty tolerant until someone starts coming across as a smart ass know-it-all yankee, such as yourself. I don't care if you're buddies with the Board owner and used to be a moderator, nor do I care what animals you've killed. You sir, are ignorant and classless.

Poole
Actually, I believe the Brothers Browning built something like 600 of the singleshot before selling the manufacturing rights to Winchester (sans royalties) and then got caught when they made a short production run thinking they could still make the gun, despite the sale of rights.

Also, the pattern of JMB was not to be stuck with the monotonous factory-type work where he did nothing but fit parts the last few thousandths... He was a designer, actually The Designer, and it simply worked out very well for him to sell his designs.

The FN plant in Leige was brand new and struggling with a talented staff of gunsmiths building mostly bicycles. He was courted to design a pistol they could manufacture and grow their business on. I hate sports cliches, but that was not a ground-out he hit when he gave them the pocket pistol to build.

The A-5 was something he sold to FN to build, but ordered a bunch of to sell himself. It is not well-known only in America...

Browning was putting their name on products they had built in Leige because the designer was named Browning. It was not until after JMB died that they started branding stuff they only purchased.

One of the sweet deals Winchester "gave" the Brownings as part payment for the singleshot was a jobber position for dealers close to Ogden. Realize the history was right there sewn into the same era as the first Transcontinental railroad. It ran right past the Browning shop and made Ogden the perfect distribution hub for sporting goods.

Pu\ity there are no actual history buffs here to get all the details straight.
art

Sorry, I am clueless what you are pissed about.

Are you suggesting I said anyone is trying to run the LDS out of the South today? If so, please show me where I said that.

Are you suggesting I made errors in my description of JB's experience with the fellow missionary getting tarred and feathered? I am only relying on published works for that and they could be wrong.

Are you suggesting I am being disrespectful to a particular church? Perhaps the Southern Baptist church my father was raised in? The one I personally witnessed more than a few decidedly racists events in?

I cannot defend my statements against such vague attacks. Can you be more specific?

As to my hunting and fishing experiences with Rick, please note I was being attacked as someone without experience and clearly a new poster would not know of my many trips with Rick, hunting and fishing. Sorry if you do not agree.

But what really did put the fiberglass insulation in your thong?
art

If that were the case you'd know your homonyms better.....to, too, two.


Back to school for you boy.

Their?....They're?...There?

Your...you're?

Too?



At least you spelled hard on right....

Ace, I think he meant there are. The're.Ain't sure bout the spellin' but that's how it's said.
Art,only chimed in here to up my post count.Feelin' inferior to all these newbies.
Please feel free to list your degrees to make me feel even dumber. Bob

One more for the southerner with a 143 IQ (70 equivalent north of the Mason-Dixon) and a degree in english.

TFF....

Yeah, he/she could move to AK and drop the average IQ several points in both states...
art

He meant you're.Just so smart the 's get missed.
Art, are you trolling here? Bob

Bobbalee
How have you been doing? Have not seen you around for a while. You need to work on your post count a bit... And consider moving out of TX...
art

Bobbalee
No, I am not trolling! I would NEVER do that! I just find it a neat thing when someone with a case of the redass finds out their symbols do not mean what they thought they mean.

The other day CWH2 mentioned the movie the Princess Bride where the brainy dude kept saying "Inconceivable!" everytime something happened opposite his prediction. Inugo Montoya said "You keep saying that word but I do not think it means what you think it means!"

A Browning sticker on the rigs of some individuals would be the ultimate juxtaposition of their religion and things that have made their lives better.
art

Well, I am correct in my assessment, I've lived here most of my life. I do wish you'd share some of these experiences you've had with religion in the south. You offer no proof, just vague claims of which you have no support. You don't even seem to know that there isn't an organization called the Southern Baptist Church (which your father supposedly grew up in), there is a Southern Baptist Convention which many Baptist churchs are affiliated with but all churches within that are congregationalist, they're autonomous, each church controls it's own affairs.

Just a quick glance at the LDS website shows that there are many mormons in the south. Where there does seem to be a lack of them is the new england states and in the central midwest. My own state of Mississippi shows 21,000 mormons, Alabama shows 33,000, Tennessee 43,000 and Georgia 74,000, hardly the numbers of a people suffering under religious intolerance.

I'll say it again- We don't care if you're Mormon. We don't care if J.M. Browning was mormon. Trying to stereotype a region because Browning had trouble as a morman missionary 120 years ago is just stupid. Hell, the automobile hadn't even been invented then.

Crow Hunter
Obviously I got you more than a little worked up... That was not my intent.

Arguing semantics of the name of the church organization was not my issue. The population of folks in any southern state can be compared to the numbers of church goers and the numbers of LDS members. While Southerners have more church attendees the representative populations of Mormons is tiny.

Populations
GA 9.8 million
LA 4.5
AR 2,9
MS 3.0
AB 4.7
TN 6.3
FL 18.5

Church-going percentages
GA 52%
LA 58%
AR 55%
MS 57%
AB 58%
TN 52%
FL 39%

Texas is the only Southern state with church attendence under 50%, but just barely, 49%. Most run closer to 32%. Georgia has a 52% rate of church attendence, yet less than 1/2% of the total population is Mormon.

As I said earler, Southerners are usually already attached to a church.
art

When I was writing the above and mentioned the Texas statistic I was already considering the numbers of Northern refugees reducing the church going percentages and had that explained away in my mind. Obviously Texas is no more Southern than Florida and the statement is wrong on its face.

But in my own defense, it still runs much higher than many New England states with less than a quarter of their populations claiming to be church goers.

If I may interject. I looked on Google and found a pic of the bolt with the little locking lugs. It's not really like a Weatherby after all. It has 3 little lugs and little things you have to line up right to slide it in. I hate to leave this thread knowing I made a mistake. I was right about the Krylon though wasn't I.

Sorry Ass-of-Eight,

I under estimated your ability to read correct grammar. When I am brow beating bigot idiots like you and Sitka, I am usually also working.

Unable to give you two ass clown my full attention.

Please accept my apology.

JM

AssesofEight wrote:



Hmmm, let's see professor,

Messin' : Is that a redneck word you used Poindexter?

2nd Puncuation: Either use 1 period or 3 for effect, not four. Learn to count.

3rd Punctuation: use a comma after "seen" Shakespeare.

4th Punctuation again: "rats". The correct puncuation is "rat's". If you are using a singular noun to show possession, use an apostrophe before the "s" dumbschit.

5th Punctuation once more: The rule above also applies to the word "Japs". You're worse than a [bleep] 3rd grader.

6th Punctuation: Use a coma after "Japs" in your last sentence.

Well Asses,

It seems that you are not the grammatical genuis you claimed to be. If I can help you with this, please let me know. It must be tough being an idiot.

JM

p.s. I find it ironic that racist terms are used by the very people who are trying to point out how intolerant the South is.

You gang of dumb-asses, at least try to keep up with your own posts. TFF

Got to go to work now,

I guess you two will just have to play with yourselves.

"The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along."

Talk about self prophecy fulfilled to the letter of the law! WOW!

Dee
There are more than a few editorial styles and they do not all agree. I would think an English major would understand that. When casting for perfection there is a huge difference in effort expended between the flip and the serious. Obviously you would like to make this post a serious one; quite different from AcesandEights picked-apart post.

You are wrong on the punctuation relative to the third comment. Either the entire clause "and like most UFC fights I've seen" is considered nonessential and set off with commas at each end, or it is considered essential and no commas are used. An argument could be made for either, but not your attempt.

Your fifth comment is also wrong as there is nothing possessive about "Japs" anywhere in the paragraph.

Your sixth comment is wrong by most editorial styles as there is no weak clause followed by a strong, and the comma does not improve sentence clarity. The clauses are long enough to justify it by some styles, but that argument is clearly over your head.

"You're worse than a [bleep] 3rd grader" is not a good way for a Southern lady to promote herself.
art

Art,

As I mentioned to you and Terry, I nearly snuck "Browning" in as James' middle name. But this was solely due to John Moses' work as a firearms designer, not due to the sub-par firearms that the Browning company has designed since his demise. I still feel that JMB is the greatest firearms designer to have ever come along. It's utterly amazing to me that the person that designed the great Winchester lever guns also brought us the 1911 and the M2...

Scott

the Superposed and the A-5...

Did you know he had plans (if not actually having produced a prototype) of a gas operated semi-auto conversion for lever guns?

You just keep posting so someone would notice your birthday cake? I can feel the heat from all those candles all the way up here...

JMB contended he was simply fortunate to have lived when he did and that everything lined up right for him to be the right guy at the exact right time and place. His focus and drive were just more good luck...

I wonder how many Buckmark logos got scratched off in the last couple days...

Or new ones applied...

If I was as smart as JohnMoses, I'd have changed my b-day in my profile. Today's anniversary is a big one, too. I'm 32 in Hexadecimal

Wow, that is a biggie! But I like thinking of myself as just 36...

Last time I had to deal with that word hexadecimal, I got a D.

So you probably don't get nearly the laugh out of the following statement that I do:

"There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't"

Wonder where the potty-mouthed chubby chick went...

MM
INtended to respond to this post earlier and just remembered I had not... At least I think I haven't.

Actually Browning engineers designed the A-Bort. I want to say Baldini? A similar name anyway, was the main designer.
art

Had you went to school and been graded on that piece of literary art, everything I said stands with the exception of showing Japs in the possesive.

Just wanted to point out that some should remove the plank from their own eye, before attempting to remove a splinter from a brother's.

If Asses wants to play word games, he should clean punctuation up first.

You're not, so leave it alone clown.

I am treading in this thread cocked and locked. NOT taking a chance with a cold barrel. No way with all these potential hostiles around.

Dee
"Had you went to school and been graded on that piece of literary art, everything I said stands with the exception of showing Japs in the possesive.

Just wanted to point out that some should remove the plank from their own eye, before attempting to remove a splinter from a brother's.

If Asses wants to play word games, he should clean punctuation up first."

Jig is up there, Lady. You are dead wrong and dealing with someone not guessing. What kind of torture was that starting clause? "Had you went..." is some conjugaled-up conjugation if I ever read it.

You clearly have no clue about grammar, and know less about editing styles.

Further, as long as you are showing you cannot touch an easy question, how about using those three dot thingies for "emphasis" as you stated? There are rules for those and there are instances where four dots is proper. Unfortunately you cannot count either because he actually used five. Would tell you what that thing is called but Google needs the excercise.

Must suck being a chubby chick in a place like Texas with all that fine looking competition hanging it out. It is easy to understand why you are pissed off at the World.
art

Art,

I refuse to believe that you are mystified as to why I posted my first comment that set this all off.

You created a post and followed it up with comments that were basically a cheap shot at Southerners. You can deny that, but it has not escaped the attention of others.

Contrary to popular opinion, Most folks in the South understand and appreciate the contributions John Browning made to the firearms industry. That's why I admire him.

Many Southerners are patriotic and have served in the military at one point in their lives. It's hard to be a Marine or a Soldier and not know what a .50 BMG is and where it came from.

My point being that your post was insulting. My point was not all Southerners are ignorant, dumbasses and a few of them can make you eat your words if you try to make jokes at their expense.

As far as A-Bolts go, I could care less what others buy and shoot. They have been good, reliable rifles in my experience.

I just wanted to post this so you would understand that your post and later comments were offensive to not just myself, but others as well.

I don't mind a good fight, if I believe the situation merits it. In my opinion, your topic made the grade.

JM.

Dee
You can't even buy a clue.

Have yet to meet the girl able to kick my ass.
art

Grandma has run away again. Probably had to go deal with a bowel obstruction.

Impaction often occurs after anal intercourse Grand Ma Arty.

Hell, my sister could beat your granny ass Art.

Gone again? Conferring with her mindless minions I'm sure.

Dee
Just so you don't think I am ignoring you because you are a chubby chick I will respond just this once. Unless you have something other than a personal attack there is no need to bother as I will not respond. If you have something of value to add to your argument I might respond.

You absolutely failed any chance of acceptance as grammar reference and now you are just a bitchy fat chick and that will get you ignored.
art

You're beat, you've said this once before, then posted some dribble.

Not only are you a liar, but a mis-informed idiot Granny as well. You have to consult with others in order to respond. You can't even think for yourself Arty.

Now go get that rubber out Asses left in your bunghole and stay around and receive your beat down like a man.

I explained where I was coming from and you refused it, so buckle up Granny or you may get a broken hip.

Art,

I think JohnMoses is a Jeff_O sockpuppet.

While the two seemingly argue with each other all the time, they both have a similary trait. Push them into a corner with logic and facts, and they both resort to "I reject your reality, and substitute my own!!"

Scott

Good post Crow hunter. Agree with practically everything you said.

As for the A-Bolt, I told a guy on another site recently that he should consider himself fortunate if a guy he was trying to buy one from didn't accept his offer on it. I owned one and I don't like 'em at all.

Scott
Does bust the bubble on Texas women knowing their place...

Really need the poster of the fat chick hiding in the hallway with two spinners posing. Caption is something about jealousy...
art

Boy,

You need to go put your nose back in the corner.

And don't speak with Maser's bone in your mouth. Weren't you taught any manners?

Wow Grandma,

That promise didn't last long. Did you fish that bone sock out of your buttocks?

I don't think Medicare covers anal condom removal, but I could be wrong.

If I were in the 1st grade, I'd respond:


A psychoanalyst might respond:


Steelhead might say, regarding your man-love for the a-bort


If I were as witty and capable as JohnMoses:

Good try rookie.

This game is over your head, but you are welcome to watch and learn.

Laughing!

It's hard not to sometimes.

While many colorful adjectives apply when discussing Art, after humping my arse to keep up with him while climbing mountains and busting alder and devil's club, and watching him re-direct up-close brown bears to the far side of the river, (all on Kodiak Island), I'm here to tell you "Grandma" isn't among them......

Stupid??? You call this stupid?


Okay, maybe it is a little bit.

Don't go teasing the chubby chick, man, she'll think you like her.

Tell me you haven't had that happen before!

I know for a fact that John C Calhoun hunted with a Remington model 700-ADL in 30/06.

A-bolts are just plain offensive to the eye.

<sigh>



Looks okay. Light, handy. Works fine, shoots well. Dunno if it will feed upside down in a mud puddle with a rabid T-Rex trying to eat me, and wouldn't pick a .308 for that task, anyway. Good Rifle.

JMB? Great mechanical genius, nice guy, gave his government good deals in time of war.

Mormons? wouldn't join their church, but the women are usually cute and nice. No problems with them.

'scuse my fractured sentences and colloquial grammar. Carry on.

Inasmuch as I invented the Lee24 operating system (not debugged) and have traveled through history, I have a certain perspective on this topic which I'd like to share.

Being of generally southern persuasion I am shocked to find out there are Browning products and designs(?)out there besides the Sweet 16, 1911, M2 and .22 ATD, aka Remington 24 (Which has nothing to do with the Lee24 OS). Being unaffiliated with any particular denomination of the church has left me with a modified stereotypical attitude in such absence, ergo, "Guns and Guts". The question arises after review of this debate:



Apparently my intervention in the incredibly archaic Japanese firearms industry has been fruitful, even if less than eloquent. At any rate, though Mr. Browning was fruitful, there were and are certain successes of his which even today make lasting impressions at both ends. My all time favorite is the M2 of course, having stood the test of time in fashion unmatched by any but the 1911. I suspect the M2 has settled more debates, but that is merely supposition. But I digress.

Before I invented the internet (Sorry Al, you lie) it was common for disputes to be resolved by fisticuffs since phone fights had not been invented, nor had phone sex for that matter. -sigh- Before that era, men settled affairs of honor on the green, usually around dawn as I recall. The practice once common, was eventually outlawed against my strident objection and after a short time fell out of favor for two obvious reasons. One of those was my invention of the flush toilet but few recognize this point. I won't bore you with the evolution or how I came to meet Mr. Thomas Crapper. Again, I digress, apologies tendered.

Of note in recent years is a frequently recurring interest in all things old. Some call it retro, or antiquing, investing, or other exalted descriptions which provide a social basis for having old chitt and being cool for the endeavor. While material goods come and go, there is another view which sometimes finds value in old concepts, such as the US Constitution, or the Rules of Queensberry as examples. I have a suggestion for two of our resident wizards.



At 10 paces, turn and fire. Take careful aim, for they are not repeaters. Though not designed by my good friend John Browning or built in Japan, they remain fully functional and capable in good hands. Do take heed; the oft used line "..did I shoot 5 times or 6?" is not effective with these pieces of art.

With warmest regards and hope for the future,

Artful Dan*

*Without apologies for spelling, syntax, content, political affiliation, reloading technique, penchant for black powder, rimfires, quail, deer, dead hogs or projected attitude.

Mr Dan ; I imagine the " Crow " poster was feeling a little lonely - being the only sane one on this thread - 'til you showed up .

Maybe the next time - and it won't be long - some idiot yankee assumes responsibility for straightening out the South , you can defend us .

Lord knows you can't do any worse than JM .

Hey this idiot Yankee was neither attempting to straighten out the South nor assuming responsibility for anything Southern. I was just trying to spread a little cheer!

It worked in some quarters. Not so much in others.
art

I think the A-bort and Browning logo were designed by Lee24 to cause trouble on the Fire. His master plan is working.

When did Alaskans start being called 'Yankees'? I know if you start calling this Oregon boy 'Yankee' you'd best be ready to rumble.

Did her dress get caught on any rocks? She is tough, rock climbing in orthepidic shoes and all.

How do you re-direct a bear up-close? Is that kind of like being a cross walk guard? I can see Gramps doing that.

I would never insult my Northern brothers by calling them "Alaskan".

You must be delusional.

By the way, that looks like you in the back Grandma.

Don't feel bad, I'm sure someone will still dance with you at the Alaskan Pomegranate Festival.

Looks like you could use the exercise.

I love self inflicted pejoratives in the morning!

Our irresponsibility is beyond straightening out. You gave us carpet baggers, we gave back Carter, Clinton, Clinton....if nothing else we teach lying well...at the highest levels. Without an accent. Y'all.

We call your next Kennedy with another Clinton and raise you Atlanta.

What sort of exchange rate do we get on Buckmark stickers? Surely would should get at least a few bales of cotton per...

The going rate is one sticker for one homey. 1 : 1 ratio.

Just gimme a 28ga Citori and you guys can have the stickers!

Last I heard it was one Menapausal Alaskan Grandma. 1:1

We don't want the stickers and we damn sure don't want the homies... So ho many stickers do we have to give for you to just keep the homies?

Would have thought a big bore like you would want more than a tight little 28gauge Clitori.

Art,
One of the first shotguns I ever fired was a 28Ga over and under(can't remember the make) when I was 9 years old.
So,it's a nostalgia thing, I guess.

I should say that I have never owned a 'clitori' but they do seem like a nice shotgun.

I heard you can shoot them loose...

All of them, plus anything else of value in your possession, preferably manufactured pre-'64.

Loose ain't good!
Maybe I will look for another brand of shotty gun...

Actually I have three Clitoris and though they do not fit me at all, I think they are fine guns and would last several generations of regular shooters.

I may give one a look-we have some good dove hunting in these parts and thought one of those would be a good choice.

I own serveral different brands of firearms including browning. My A-Bolt shoots a 5/8" group at 100 yards right out of the box. My Gold Hunter shoots every size shot I use from 7 1/2's for dove, 5's for ducks and turkey and 000 buck for deer.

And my stainless buckmark 22 pistol is a tack driver.

And I didn't have to sort through 4 or 5 guns to find one that shoots good like the Remingtons I have.

I guess its like that Ford/Chevy thing.

Oh yeah! I have a Buck Mark sticker in my window too.

Three "Clitoris"?

Yeah, but they cheated........

"All's fair in love and war."

<sigh>

<putting on waders>

Having met Art, finding him to be an intellectual and in posession of a great sense of humor, I'm sure he's getting the most enjoyment from this thread. Also having met his offspring and some of his friends there is no doubt he is a class act and fine father. Must be a touch of cabin fever that keeps him on the computer rather than engrossed in a rifle project or some such venture. BTW Art, the Citori doesn't fit you cause you're so durn BIG.....

340boy is correct, the 28 ga. Browning that I shoot is as sweet as a shotgun can be and I wouldn't be without mine!

I've owned Brownings, shotguns only, and have found the small bores and the Gold Hunter to my liking. I guess that I'd be OK with a Buckmark on my truck, right next to my "Hunt Fair Chase" sticker.....

Back to the show.

Mike

I got an A-Bolt in 22 Hornet that was given to me by a friend . I don't know what a " buckmark " sticker is , but if my pickup had one , I think I'd know it . [ but maybe not !]

Does this harm my credentials as an ignorant , non Morman , redneck clown ?

Not neccesarily....if you have a confederate flag anywhere on the truck...you're golden!

Ingwe

Curdog,

If you ever want to sell that rifle let me know. If I buy it, will you throw in a rebel flag and buckmark sticker as well?

Lucky guy!

Most guys are happy to have just one to play with now and then...

John

Still seems to me that some of the obtuse missed the original humor and non-malicious intent with the original post. Of course John M got is puzzy hurt and had to run a JO rant.

Don't matter that he ain't been around for all the things Art has done for folks around here over the years, or taking out cancer riddled kids.

I suggest JM shove a tube of Vagasil up his twat and STFU.

I may have over reacted to his post, unlike you Steely, I am man enough to see where I may have jumped the gun.

Puting all this B.S. aside, I'm sure Art is a pretty decent guy.

And I am pretty sure you could be as well, but it won't happen until you learn to control your demons and man up when you are wrong.

JM

p.s. maybe you could loan me that vagasil you spoke of.

A bunch of really fine, decent men having at it like this is kind of disappointing to read. If everyone was in the same room together when this all started, the laughs would far exceed the bitterness. Fuggin internet...

Why don't you guys shift gears to making some quick easy money and venture a look upon my lock pro playoff picks of the weekend.

Just sayin'....My MOJO is strong this weekend...I'm feeling it!!

The only people around here who brag about their A-bolts, are the ones standing around in the store. On the range, it is a different matter. I will admit that I have seen a couple that would group well, but with any brand you have to have a competent shooter behind the trigger. I would have to say that probably 9 out of 10 that come through the range are not very skilled shooters. Minute of Deer maybe.

I think isaac is right on about this one....




Football picks...not so much....


Ingwe

Agreed Isaac, but please don't make any predictions for the Senate race in MA.

Brown by 2!!

And why am I getting hammered on for McCain losing, for crying out loud??

At least I fought my ass off trying to get the couch/fence-sitters and 3rd party guys to think twice.

I'm guessing now folks wished they had listened a bit more closely.

I went local thereafter and Va is almost back to full time GOP control...thanks very much!

My bookie died . And with the way I picked college this year, I should not be betting on anything

I am committed to studying more next year and redeeming myself.

Thanks for trying to put this to bed, it's gone on long enough.

JM

If my bets go south this weekend, I'm gonna selfishly hope my Vegas guy has an injury involving amnesia!!

You lying bitch!




PM to be returned.
art

Which part is he lying about? May have, putting all, or I'm sure? Be careful, we're all watching.

I think I like this thread after all. I did not invent Vagisil, whatever that is. Sounds like a NASCAR sponsor?

"I did not invent Vagisil, whatever that is. Sounds like a NASCAR sponsor?"

I am not a NASCAR kinda guy, but I do not think it is used by the Pole Car!?!
art

Buckmark - Midwest style

VERY cool!!!!!!!

That's a bunch of good eatin'.

A few more showing off the buckmark:







(daughter's camera skills)

Last weekend my son carried around an actual Buckmark (with an Aimpoint) bunny hunting... But he did not draw blood.

I assume the dogs made the difference?

The dogs find them for you and circle them back around. More often than not, if you miss, they'll bring it back and let you try again. We run the dogs year round and this part of the year is payday for their efforts:

I grew up in Rhode Island where all the older guys went to Maine for deer camp. The gun to have was a Remington 742 or 7400. Everybody brought one. I'd never own one. I'd be the odd ball who brought the Sako Finbear to camp. I think that us New England folk's affinity for Remington semi's is stranger than the Southern Browning thing.

As for shotguns, Rhode Island hunters all have Rem 1100's and Auto 5's. As a kid, I had an 1100 and my best friend I hunted with had an Auto 5. Come hunting season, our range will be full of these guns, and not much of anything else.

Just got back. Here are the A-Bolt pictures:

Great...thanx! Did you check out the car collection also?