My sixth grade son was given a research assignment to show how humans can 'save the earth.'

He told the teacher that he thought "hunting" would be a good topic. Now he has to do the research, so I thought this would be a good place to start.

In what ways do you think hunting is good for the environment, and why?

i would consult with gus. he has a wealth of information around these sorts of questions.

I disagree that the Earth needs saving, but that doesn't help.

I'd say that hunters dump enormous amounts of money into conservation...RMEF, NWTF, etc. Hunters sponsor those groups so they'll have good hunting.

That doesn't explain how hunting directly impacts, but fits the spirit of what he's doing.

Your son is in 6th grade,right? Hell, I'd have Gus write it.

I'd be jumping down the teacher's throat for putting things in such a form. "Saving the earth?" Again, does it need to be saved? And that's a question for older kids.

Education, my patootie.

well, the first thought is that hunting has to be bifurcated between food hunting and sport hunting.

but, that will just serve to divide the constituency. yes. it's pretty deep, actually.

but, your son has selected a worthy topic, for sure.

it's one that likely no one will ever completely agree. but at least he needs to deliver a message/report to the classroom.

one thing is, that hunting is an important part of the economy.

another part, is that from the begining, hunting kept villages and groups well-fed through the winter time, and other seasons, and so was a necessisty.

the folks now want to talk about habitat, and annual sustainable production.

it's a deep subject. your son bit off a great hunk to chew. i wish him well in his endeavors and reports to the remainder of the class.

i hope i haven't muddied the waters here, that certainly wasn't the intent.

good luck as the research report moves forward.

there you go. gus you are the man!!!

I would add that eating wild game is free of unnatural additives which lead to allergic reactions and all sorts of human ailments. Free range or harvested game is free from all growth hormones, stabilizers, preservants etc thus providing a healthier individual capable of handling everyday problems.

I would also add that the hunter is the one who cleans his game thus ensuring that no contaminants are introduced through poor packaging protocols of mass manufacturing.

I would further add as mentioned above that hunters provide the eyes and ears of conservation as they frequent the habitats and often are the ones who see problems arising within the ecosystems before any one else.

It is widely known amongst hunters but few others that populations left unmanaged typically overpopulate and eventually fall prey to vast disease and starvation which allows for even further spreading of disease through the deceased to the living. The hunter via harvesting species actually manages the population to a sustainable level for the particular carrying capacity of its habitat.

Hunters as mentioned also contribute tons of economic dispersements to not only the environment but also the economy.

I would lastly add that families who hunt together stay together and tend to maintain family values, morals and ethics thus ensuring a stronger family unit. These family units respect the environment for its offerings and therefore will protect said environment and its species.

Hunting fees/licenses contribute to conservation projects and studies.

Memberships/contributions to hunting organizations such as the RMEF preserve habitat for the benefit of all species within an eco-system.

Hunting can be regulated to contol species populations to a balanced level throughout an ecosystem.

Utilizing uncontrolled means (wolves) can lead to wild swings in population balances and unstable ecosystems.

Hunting and securing meat will use less fuel than it takes raise, process, and deliver meat products in our carbon intensive agricultural system (assuming carbon contributes to global warming) Global warming aside, less fuel burned is less pollution which is a leading cause of athsma.

There are lots of good topics to include, while the title may be a bit dramatic, sounds like good platform for your son to collect his thoughts on the benefits of hunting.

Great point!

per jryyoung

"Hunting and securing meat will use less fuel than it takes raise, process, and deliver meat products in our carbon intensive agricultural system (assuming carbon contributes to global warming) Global warming aside, less fuel burned is less pollution which is a leading cause of athsma"

Bifurcated??? Geez, Gus. I did that once in a public place, and they told me to leave or I'd be arrested.

There's no way raising a calf in my backyard and butchering it at 400 pounds is better for the enviroment than me driving 12 hours, and back, to shoot a 150# deer.

I just don't care about 'saving the earth'. I hunt to eat, and 'cause it's fun.

I think you mean this:
There's no way driving 12 hours, and back, to shoot a 150# deer is better for the environment than raising a calf in my backyard and butchering it at 400 pounds.

I would agree 100%, but most don't raise their own meat. Most need it done for them, processed for them, shipped across the country for them so they can make 80 trips to the store for that same 400lbs of meat (assuming they purchase 5lbs per trip) or 30 trips for the equivalent of a 150lb deer.

two stories, and two answers, as we move forward.

eastern whitetail deer are quite the quarry, given a proper procedure to best capture them. once they begin to overpopulate, and eat the hosta lilies, they become pests, do they not??

it's a serious subject, Trophy hunters, and folks who feel like the deer are becoming vermin?

Vermin??

big cities, the suburbs, and the countryside? should there be three sets of laws to deal with the extranitices?

just remember, while eastern whitetail deer are the subject, what about the Blackbears, trying to remain a sustainable population???

living with blackbears, what a concept? sorry, off subject.

OH THAT'S MEAN!........




Casey

That's what I like about you--you're so philosophical about things.........




Casey

Sam, I agree with second part of your post BUT I do indeed care about saving the Earth. I have 2 (soon to be 3) generations of family behind me who deserve the same quality of life and enjoyment of this same Earth that I've experienced. I believe the mountains, oceans, lakes, rivers, forests, flat lands, piedmonts and bays are all worth saving. Heck I even believe the people are worth saving. All which make up Earth. God save us all if we forsake what is given.

I have to believe that somewhere inside you feel the same. If not, that's disappointing.

David

PM sent, DakotaDeer.

if we're true hunters and fishermen, that means we're transparent, pretty much.

just tell us, as group, what you think, ok?

Well Gus does have point--be a good idea if your son distinguishs between sport, subsistance, and market hunting.

The really, really, bottom line: Sport hunting has provided the funding to restore most of the large mammals in the lower 48. And despite the less than stellar conservation ethic on the Campfire, sport hunting groups have often been very successful in the legislature, in the courts, and on the ground at preserving habitat and wildlife.



Casey

I'm right behind you on this,.....

Can't they just be innocent kids for the same time we were,.....

This is a dangerous and chitty evolution,......and that School Board oughta' be brought to task about this.

GTC

Sport Hunting can constitute a humanitarian effort to feed the neglected children of Africa, one Kudu at a a time...

+ 1 billion

Safari Club International has some great info about hunters' contributions to conservation efforts in Africa.

In short, for the past 50 years, guided safari hunting has generated more dedicated conservation funds in Africa than all foreign aid put together.

If it weren't for Hunters, the Kenyan national preserves would not exist. Once it was clear that it was to the advantage of local economies to support conservation, biodiversity, and habitat preservation, leaders embraced the hunting community and the benefits it represented.

Save the earth from what - aliens, a meteor, falling out of orbit, colliding with Mars, MAD? How does anything a human can do "save the earth"? I think I would be totally lost in what passes for education in today's USA. Sorry, my post wasn't worth a damn to you or your son; I just don't get it.

It would seem to me that we lived the "Last Of the best" times,

I really don't remember being "indoctrinated".....and between bouts of normal Kid Mischief, and than Puberty induced Puzzyitus, I remember ENJOYING my school classes.

We were ALLOWED to be kids,......

and were not force fed Ritalin, and other chit.

This needs shook out,.....

GTC

It's good because it gets people out in the environment, in an era where that flat doesn't otherwise happen for many people.

It's also a visceral example of the cycle of life, where food comes from, predator/prey relationships, and so on.

All good things. Anything that connects people to the earth is a good thing IMHO.

I agree 100%...none of the chit kids deal with now was EVER on my 'radar'. I was too busy shooting crows and starlings and building forts and staying out of Mom and Dads' way..else I'd be doin' chores.

I work very hard to ensure my children have the chance at innocence and frivolity....like I enjoyed.

Sorry for going way off.....This is the Crossfire word for your Young Scout.

I'd have to say that just suggesting that the reverence and desire for MORE knowledge about the natural World makes a good Hunter a BETTER "guardian".

I'd suggest as well that the Logger, Farmer, Oil and Water Well Driller are also , by the very nature of their avocation,.....inclined to STUDY the natural World, and have a REAL knowledge base from where to speak thereon.

I'd ask him to comment on, and de-emphasize "Media induced Hype"

GTC

One of the rarely mentioned things about sport hunting, is that it places a value on wildlife beyond food value. Land will always be put to its "highest purpose", and in much of the Rocky Mountains, Africa, Alaska, etc, the highest purpose is as wildlife habitat. Sport hunting increases the value of that land beyond the value of the food and artifacts provided by the game on it.
When Kenya outlawed sport hunting in 1977, they stripped the game of it's highest value, losing the income provided by hunters who paid for game deptarment employees who could prevent the wholesale poaching of elephants.
Capstick writes a lot about how it's hunter's mighty dollar that prevents the wholesale raping of the land by sheep, goat and cattle herds in Africa.
If hunting in the US were outlawed, similar things would happen. The land would be developed/farmed/ranched to death. Photo tourism does not bring in the money that consumptive uses does for the most part.
So in short, sport hunting is preventing putting the last of our wild lands under the plow, into housing developments or strip mined.

Oh yeah, don't forget the affect of hunting revenue on South Africa's economy. I assure you that all those ranches would be plowed under for vineyards or something of that nature if their owners thought they could make more money by doing so.

Mankind is not a species apart from the world. We are not outside nature. We are part of the chain of existence.

Removing man from the predator-prey relationship upsets the original balance of nature and is unnatural.

If you believe that we should re-introduce wolves in order to restore the natural predator-prey balance, then how can you object to keeping man in his natural place as hunter?

Looking good guys, thanks.

As to whether this stuff should be taught in public schools--well, it is, and this is a very conservative, tiny town, agricultural, hunt everywhere sort of place.

The indoctrination is nearly complete in his class of 30 or so kids--I observed the essays posted on the walls at Christmastime about what one change each child wished they could do to help the world at large. They could pick anything and write about it--sort of a 'feel good' Christmas essay.

Over half his class chose to write about global warming and the human-induced destruction of the planet. I did not see a single "fact" mentioned in any of those essays, simply their terrible angst over having contributed to wrecking the planet. It is pathetic!

Pittman/Robertson Act and the Dingell/Jonhson Act. Guaranteed income to the states for wildlife and fisheries. The greenies aint got nuthin like I. We pay the freight fellas. Think what would happen if binos, bird books, shroom picking licesnes and the like would be imposed?

IF those licenses were imposed than the nonhunters would get a say in wildlife management, and there would be no more hunting. It's better that we pay our own way and carry the water of others, so that we get the final say in how wildlife is managed.

I still don't see an answer to the question of how hunting will save earth.

A lot of good stuff on why hunting is a good activity but not on how hunting will save the earth.

BTW: What are we saving the earth from?

I'll check in tomorrow.

Does this mean you feel a river can't be polluted or the air poisoned? Eat Tuna every day and you will grow antlers or at least your new born kid will develope brain damage. Our kids deserve better than that.
Tell him to say that a moose can turn a hillside of willow into protein without plowing,disking,irrigation and fencing.No fertilizer from Saskachewan potash or Monsanto Round up ready genetically modified seed required.If that hillside is less than 1200 miles away (average distance for food from production to kitchen) it will take less fuel to get it into your freezer. If that hillside is beside a clean river you can catch a trout and skip the tuna.
And most importantly hunting is fun and developes good character, especially important for 6 year olds.

Because if no one hunted we would end up with a society of mall going, liberal voting [bleep] that would never procreate because they'd be donning JO and Obama masks whilst corn-holing one another and the world would become a gigantic queer Starbucks 'think tank' discussing all the ways to save animals and the environment over a big frothy mug of liberal flavored Latte Butt Butter Cream whilst never actually doing a damn thing outside back slapping one another over their superior insight.

Hunter's on the other hand will hand out big mugs of Shut the F*ck Up, roll up their sleeves and make [bleep] happen.


Run that one up the flag pole.

Right on Steelhead, couldn't have said it any better. Dad don't let the kid see this bit.

Without hunting -none of us would be here. We got fed up with collecting seeds for the city folk to consume and we started hunting clean cross the ocean over an ice bridge 20,000 years ago and we kept on hunting until we met each other in the middle of the USA. The the pilgrims came and the good indian hunters kept them bible packing whitemen alive until they learned how to hunt, then they could prosper to what you have today.

Ok, to answer the original question I think you need to examine how an ecosystem works. The stability of the Earth is greatly dependent on its various ecosystems. For a particular ecosystem to function, everything in it has to have a certain symbiosis. If not, then one of 2 things happen. Either the ecosystem rejects that thing, and it goes away, or that thing destroys that ecosystem.

Hunting, in it's purest form is nothing more than a predator / prey relationship, which is vital to every ecosystem. Predators hunt prey, which keeps certain species of plant munchers from completely consuming the vegetation. Vegetation we know is what takes care of our air.

I think the real question here is "How does mans involvement in his ecosystem, help or harm it?" We are a special species in that we have the ability to manage the world around us. Ethical hunters are responsible for their part in the predator / prey relationship within their ecosystem. Their ability to do population counts, monitor vegetation growth and availability, and determine the strength of a particular species allows them to be very selective, about which prey they harvest, and how much. This is VERY beneficial to any ecosystem.

Hunters have the ability to pool resources to aid in this. They are very well informed and educated on what a habitat needs to sustain certain species and strive to ensure that those needs are met within that habitat. Hunters often create a sustainable habitat where there was none prior, due to the over population of a species that has consumed or destroyed that habitat.

Mankind's role as a hunter (predator) in his ecosystem has done more to sustain, preserve, and develop the well being of Earth than any other species alive. Sadly, the reverse can be said too, but the facts are that hunters are not the one's harming their environments, rather it's non-hunters that are the destructive element within their ecosystem.

This has been true since the dawn of time. Doesn't matter if you believe in evolution or creation. Hunters take care of his environment either for the sake of survival (evolution) or out of obedience (have dominion over them) or out of God's creative heart placed within us (creation). That is how Hunting helps "Save The Earth"

oh, forgot to add that when hunters help create habitats, by managing vegetation, it take care of the air, and eliminates erosion......

to save anything you must first have an appreciation for it.


it takes a pretty callous soul (and yes they do exist) to take a living breathing creature, full of wonder and mystery, stalk it in it's own environment, kill it, break it down to a manageable load, butcher and wrap and feed your family with such and not develop a deep appreciation for the land and the bounty it provides

basically 3 stages of hunting ime.

the last one is where I think most of us really get we want to preserve this way of life not so much that our families can be fed, but so the souls of our sons and daughters may be enriched as our own were by hunting.

we learn to appreciate the land and what it holds and wish to protect it by doing so.

I believe you are right....well put!

The young man's hunting experience could be used to establish the fact that there are just too many people on this planet.

Hunting could be used to help point out, and establish theoretical ideal human population densities based on sustainable regional hunting practices and moderate sustainable regional farming/ranching.

Eating only meat, cheese and produce grown and raised here in Central, TX can be a challenge, but the Farmers market has many like minded farmers and ranchers, and they are growing in number.

The "hunter" can provide valuable insight on how to harvest the local game animals, and help ensure that the land is valued not only for recreation, but as a source of seasonal food as well.

Well to start with there are now more deer than have been in the past 100 years. The money to support the conservation efforts have come from the hunters, ammo tags etc. Duck unlimited etc have done so much more than the anti hunters. Lots on the web, keep the young one going in the right direction as he already seems to be.

so you have bought into the AGW theories of algore? Thats disappointing as well.

Let's not confuse good stewardship with cult madness.

During SCI's American Wilderness Leadership School(AWLS) for HS educators one of the major topics is that hunting is an effective means of species management. Utilizing hunting to remove the older, non breeding, members of a given species, such as deer, benefits the herd. During winter when browse is scarce members of any species compete for food. Removing surplus animals such as does(females) will again benefit the herd.
Sport hunters donate many thousands of pounds of wild game each year that is given to the needy that provides needed protein.

sport hunters in Florida cannot donate their game to the needy, unless EVERY carcass is inspected and passed by a licensed inspector or vet.

Sorta dried up the donation of meat to the needy around here.

Of course I believe a river can be polluted - there are polluted rivers out there right now but the earth just keeps on rotating on it's axis. Do I believe in clean rivers? Of course, but I know that if you remove the source of pollution the river will cleanse itself - you are cleaning up a river, but you are not saving the earth. I have been a conservationist all my life, not an activist spewing BS, and I know that this "Save the earth" BS is just that; left wing propaganda whose end-state is government/bureaucrat control & regulation of everything. Don't know a thing about the eat tuna- grow antler thing - maybe you can explain?

I love to hunt and fish. I want to hunt and fish for the rest of my life. I want to teach my grandchildren how to hunt and fish. For me to do that, I have to make sure that there will be animals, birds, and fish around in the future. So I will help take care of the water that flows into the streams and lakes where the fish live. I will see that they have areas to spawn and reproduce. I will see that there is habitat for the animals and birds, that wetlands are preserved and protected, and that there is wild land available for animals. I will ask that farmers leave some marginal areas undisturbed for wildlife. I will ask politicians to fund research into animal populations so that we can measure if we are doing a good job or not.

All because I love to hunt and fish.

You need to remember that your son's teacher is probably a card carrying liberal. He should cater to that if he wants an "A". He should probably begin with something like.....animals pass gas which contributes to gobal warming so by hunting we are saving the polar ice caps, which keeps from flooding coastal eco systems.....

Just like religion.
Spreading and promoting guilt.
When one feels guilty about something he's much easier to be steered into doing things he wouldn't ordinarilly do and believing things he wouldn't otherwise believe.
The reward governments and religions receive for promoting guilt is control. And it works like a charm.

Well, everyone is concerened about all the animals going extinct...Polar bears come to mind...and everyone likes to see animals....so, tell me of one animal that has gone that way do to SPORT hunting????

ONE???

DITTOS! Sam has it right.

DITTOS! Odessa has it right.

The way to approach this is that the earth is dying and man is the caused of the eventually death.

So what needs to be done:

1. Man needs to reverse what he is doing to reverse the death. In this case, stop hunting.

2. Eliminate man.

This is the approach the young man needs to take to get an A on the test. Most of everything said on the Fire about hunting and fishing, while I agree with it, will lead to a F.

To answer the question and get an A one must think like a liberal.

Hunting will save the earth, because when the aliens arrive from outer space to steal our oxygen and probe our butts, hunters will be the only ones capable of defending our planet and honor.

Great post Denton!!

Hunting Talibans -would that be another discussion topic??LOL

Ahh...he's got some points to burn anyway! Besides, I didn't know liberals did much thinking

DakotaDeer;

Expect a LONG PM this weekend; hell, I may put it up in this thread.

Suffice to say, I have the background (and obtained a LOT of it in VERY lie-beral institutions), as well as some of the resources still on hand to get your son a very well founded paper, with technical and supported positions and evidence. If he can write, and put into his own words some of the stuff heading his way, he damned well better get an "A". If not, you and he will have MORE than enough grounds to contest the grade.

He's waiting!

How long does it need to be, and how broad?

thats what she said...

Well...he only needs to have a couple of pages, but says he's willing to write up to 50 if he has time!

He's into "broadness," sort of shows he's global awareness and willingness to allow ideological cross-pollinization.

Mainly, he just wants to beat his buddy who's writing about anti-hunting.

Great.

Here's the outline of what's coming later.

History: the "environmental movement" come from the "conservation movement" of hunters and anglers. Izaak Walton (fisherman), through Teddy Roosevelt and Aldo Leupold. TR created the National Forest system, the National Park system, and the National Wildlife Refuges. Hunters pushed for and through legislation that banned market slaughters, and for the population stabilization and population management for increase of deer, bear, turkey, grouse, pheasants, and other game animals pushed nearly to extinction.

Economics:

Millions upon millions annually from license fees, taxes, tags, etc., is DIRECTLY earmarked for research and habitat management for both game and nongame species. Hunters, through departments of game & fish, as well as through organizations like DU, TU, RMEF, NWTF, and others, as well as through pro-hunting env. groups (like The Nature Conservancy) put millions of dollars of conservation work on the ground every year, and volunteer literal millions of hours to help both game and nongame species in habitat and population work. Those dollars also fund programs at universities like Virginia Tech, University of Montana, University of Idaho, and many others, that are driven by hunting/fishing/habitat funds but offer the ability to research, study, and work to understand, protect, and improve populations of rare non-game species.

Add in the higher degree of nutrients, lower harmful cholesterol/fat, and zero pesticide/herbicide residue within wild meat vs. farmed meat, all making for healthier, less obese, less sick, less chemically poisoned, less-prone-to-harbor-antibiotic-resistant-illnesses people.

Figure "environmental footprint" of farmed meat is exponentially greater than harvested game as well, when you consider the energy and resources necessary to feed, house, inoculate, transport, slaughter, dispose of offal, package, transport, ship, and sell farmed meat, vs. game which literally takes care of itself and carries none of the energy backlog.

Oh, and he might even want to get into the secondary runoff issue of agricultural practices vs. wild game harvesting.

If he wants to take it one step further into hunters understanding, being involved in, and appreciating nature more do to their more active involvement in it, and thus more likely affinity for and obligation to protect it, he can through that on for good measure.

Yeah, he'll flat CRUSH the anti-hunting side of the argument.

Forgot to add: Hunting also keeps people within the loop of natural processes, being both predator and sometimes prey. That connectivity is essential to a proper understanding of, and appreciation for, nature; not a separateness and eventual fear of it.

When I'm cornered by an anti-hunter I do best by keeping it simple.
Hunting is not only the most efficient way to manage herd size in relation to available land, it is also often the only source of revenue for fish and game departments. Non hunters contribute zero dollars.
I don't feel the need to hunt rhino or elephant, but those that do, provide much needed funds for game departments that are not only trying to manage herd size, they need funds to fight poaching and buy land to set aside for animals.
As has already been stated, the villagers are surely happy with all the meat you can provide by your legal hunting.

I also like that hunting provides my free-range, antibiotic free, high protein, low fat meat.

This is all good but nobody still has said how to save the earth. Remember the earth is dying and it needs to be saved from death.

I think your kid should just turn this in as his research. Put Steelhead in the references and watch the teacher's head explode.

I said he's "got some points to burn," not his whole yearly grade!

VAnimrod.

Great essay.

He should go for the jugular.


Title the thesis,...

"Wild pigshit in your drinkin' water"

Has anybody figured out how to save the earth yet?

First you need to watch Avatarte, it's got all the answers.

You left everyone hanging. How did the kid do?