I just found this site it is great.

I'm looking for a deer rifle for my son who is ten years old. He is a big boy at 5 feet tall and 92 pounds. We hunt eastern North Carolina woods, bean fields and cut overs.

I'm thinking about a Remington Special Edition Model 700 in 7mm-08. This gun has a matte black barrel with no sites and a synthetic skyline camo stock. It is a full size gun with a 22" barrel. The LOP is standard, not a youth stock.

My son does fine shooting my M-700 VS in 220 Swift from the bench. I think he could handle the full LOP from a box stand. He will not be hunting alone until he is much older. I could always pick-up a youth ADL stock.

I'd appreciate any and all thoughts on the 7mm-08 as a reasonable first caliber and also any thought or experience with this model Rifle. Thanks

Not a bad rifle, but the caliber may be a bit much. I started my Grandson out on a 30-30 Single shot and then an old Savage bolt action 30-30. Very controllable for the smaller person and a good deer getter, especially from a stand. YMMV



The very best of luck to him and you, great to see the younger generation getting started the right way.

If that much recoil does not bother him the 7-08 would be fine. I gave my boy a 243 after he killed a few deer with my 220 Swift. He shoots it very well.

My main concern with young shooters is not letting them develop any kind of flinch. Personally, I favor smaller calibers for that application.

I think it would be a fantastic rifle choice, and if you handload it would be even better. A 120gr BT or X at modest velocity would hammer deer, all with a small price to pay in recoil. 120gr V-Max's make a nice, inexpensive, accurate practice load that will allow him to develop the skills and confidence to really become proficient.

Seacern: As a rather light framed (135 lb) teenager, I remember that a Rem pump 308 delivered a rather significant wallop. Was not blessed with the 7mm version at that time. When I finally came into the dollars, I settled on a 6 mm Rem that I thoroughly enjoyed. Now I have some real frame shakers, but I don't use them for light recreation. Presently, as a hunter safety instructor, I find kids especially sensitive to recoil. One bad round and they totally turn off to the task. For a kid that is completely driven with desire, recoil is simply something that will be endured. If true passion is not there and we're hoping it will develop, I would suggest a rifle with a little heft and a slightly smaller caliber. Maybe 243 to 0.25. Among kids, first impressions are quite lasting, and if possible, they should be pleasurable events rather than something that has to be tolerated. When things are fun, they can focus on technique and accuracy instead of impending punishment. If the kid really catches fire, he'll let you know when he wants to gear up a notch, and he'll probably chip in some of the $$. Just my thought, 1Minute.

I'm in the same boat with my 10 year old. He got a 10/22 for his birthday last year, Smith 317-3 (22 lr) this year, next year is centerfire rifle, year after is centerfire handgun.



I'm looking at putting him into a Winchester model 70 compact in 243. Six pounds, 20" barrel, slightly shorter LOP, and a sweet looking rifle. I'll put a Leupold M-8 4X on it for him as well. It is still a "compact" but is a rilfe he can keep into his adult years and still use and enjoy.



Next summer for his 12th birthday, or this coming xmas if he gets drawn for Javelina, he'll get the model 70.



He's already taken tons of rabbits (if I never eat rabbit again, it will be too soon), and two coyotes. He's hooked, doing well, passes on shots he doesn't think he can make, and I think it's time to move on to slightly bigger game after another summer of rabbits and coyotes.



If we hunted in dense areas as you do though, I'd have to seriously consider a model 94.



I'm very tempted to get him a 7-08, very tempted, just in case he should get an elk tag. The chances of that are so remote however, it's not worth the flinch risk if he doesn't get drawn the first couple of years. So, in the interest of making it completely enjoyable and keeping him flinch free as he is now, I'm going with the .243.



Besides, if I buy him a 7-08 now, what excuse will I have to buy him an "elk rifle" a few years down the line? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

just depends on what your hunting, for deer hunting up here in the north, 260 rem, 6.5x55, 7x57, or 7mm-08 is the way to go, but deer hunting down south a 243 or 257 roberts is ok too. plus there is the 250 savage, but good luck finding a gun made in it new now

pick out the gun first, one that fits him and get what round that is available.

If rifles were a religion I would have been a life long member of the remington denomination but of late I don't think I would buy a remington.

I'd take a long hard look at a ruger. I don't think remington has all the bugs worked out of their new plant or whatever it is... but that is just hear say and rumor. And I don't like that j lock.

just my two cents worth.

oh yea, and I got doubts about the remington trigger...

I vote for a 243.

If you handload, all the better.

85 gr. Barnes triple shock......

The 7mm08 would be a good choice, that could last him the rest of his life anywhere he might want to hunt. If the recoil is a little much for him , you may want to load him some reduced loads that shoot to the same point or close too the standard stuff. Or try one of the limbsaver recoil pads.If you make sure the stock fits him propery he shouldn't have much trouble with it.

I hear what you're saying about recoil. That is why I had settled on the 7mm-08. I was hoping to get a good all around caliber from the start. I agree the .243 would be a better round based on recoil.

I ran across a Ruger 77 in a .243 that a guy bought new and says it's never been shot. It has a laminated stock, stainless receiver/barrel, a Nikon Prostaff silver scope, sling and case. He's asking $575 and would probably take $500.

I've done some research on recoil. Here are a few "facts" that I've found. All stats are based on a 7.5 to 8.0 pound rifle. A .243 shooting a 100 at 2960 has recoil energy of 8.8. A 25-06 shooting a 120 at 3000 has recoil energy of 12.5. A 7mm-08 shooting a 140 at 2860 has recoil energy of 12.6. A 30-30 shooting a 150 at 2400 has recoil energy of 10.6. And for comparison, a 30-06 shooting a 150 at 2910 has recoil energy of 17.6. The .243 is by far the best for recoil. I don't think there would be much difference between a 25-06, 7mm-08 or a 30-30.

He does fine shooting the 220 Swift. It has a recoil energy of 5.3 shooting a 55 at 3850. I've thought about loading up a heavy bullet for the Swift and letting him shoot that, but I've read mixed reviews on the success of the round as a deer caliber. It might work fine in the hands of a skilled marksman that can place his shots. I don't think it would be an exceptable caliber for a kid learning to hunt.

Does anyone have an opinion on the Special Edition Model 700 with the synthetic Skyline camo stock. This isn't the standard 700 ADL stock. It has lines more like a BDL.

Thanks for all your thoughts and advice.

The Remington Model 7 youth is a pretty good deal. The LOP is shorter than regular rifles by an inch and the it has a 20" barrel so it is very handy.

Conrad

for deer and deer only I feel the 260 has the world over the 243, you can use 100gr. in a 260 and have almost the same recoil as a 243, as he gets older he can go up to 120/125/129gr. then go up to 140gr. or higher

plus look at bigger game, the 243 is done on anything above 350 pounds IMO, but the 260 can go much higher in a pinch

for hunting deer up here in the north i would take 260 or 6.5x55 any day over a 243. but my main deer rifle is now a 7mm08 mainly becuase I shoot lefty and the gun I wanted was available in it. but a 260 or 6.5x55 would be just fine too

You need to hear what I know will be a minority opinion, but I want you to think about it none the less. So, here goes.
Try letting him use the same gun he's used to to begin with. The 220 Swift when loaded with 53 grain Barnes X's will fold any deer that walks as quick (or quicker) than most bigger guns will with "cheapee" bullets. I have taken almost 20 big northern White Tails and Mule deer with a 22 CHeetah (quite similar to a .220 Swift) and that same bullet - and (on average) they have taken fewer steps than my buddies deer have - ones being shot with much larger caliber guns.
With the light kick and the familiarity that the 220 Swift will afford your son, you can teach him the art of a good stalk, a clean shot and have him concentrating on doing what he already knows that he does well.
Shooting at big game has a way of making many beginners forget just about everything they've already learned sofar while shooting at the range. I believe, that if he can get a few deer under his belt using the gun he's most used to - you'll be cutting down on the number of potential problems that might crop up. Thing's like worrying about finding the safety in a hurry, worrying about recoil and just plain not having enough confidence in his gun to perform as well as he does at the range.
Load (or have a friend) load him up some Barnes X's and go out and have a hunt with him knowing his gun inside and out. I know you will not be dissapointed with that gun and bullet combination on deer. Who knows - he may like it enough to stick with it.
As a young kid - I shot my first dozen or so deer (as a pre-teen) with a .300 Weatherby - I've shot most of my last 20 or so (as an old fart), with a .22 caliber CHeetah. The only .22 bullet I've ever used on big game is the Barnes X, and when using Barnes X's the game being killed, has fallen every bit as fast as it ever did with much bigger calibers - even on raking shots and those taken under less than perfect conditions. The penetrating abilities of a high velocity .22 Barnes X bullet - has to be seen to be believed.
The new ultra-premium bullets available today render all the "conventional wisdom" about what works best on what game, as something that should be taken with a grain of salt.
I know many will disagree with me, but, I also believe that most who will disagree with me - will not have taken as many deer with .22 caliber "X" bullets as I have.
That's this one guy's opinion (based on actual hunting, not theory) - for what it's worth.
Brian

260 Rem is the way to go. My nephew is a small framed teen, and he shoots it all day without a problem. He shot two deer last year, and now is addicted to hunting.

My son was extremely intolerant of recoil after a stupid move on my part. To counteract it I built him a 243 on a 700, with a heavy piece of claro walnut and bored a couple big holes in the butt.

Range sessions involved everything being exactly the same as hunting, except for the 5# of lead in the butt... recoil became a non-issue and of course he never noticed it while hunting. I never told him what was going on and he accepted it.

He is 10 now and has had his rifle for about four years, IIRC.

In a foam-filled or extruded plastic stock a piece of a huge fishing rod can be epoxied into the end and filled with shot...
art

The 7-08 leaves little to grow into,or out of.

It shines,in all regards................

BCBrian: That's a good thought on sticking with a familiar entity. Will admit to using a 22-250 on a few doe hunts where I can control the selection of the shooting station and position. The game will show up at the appointed place and time as they leave the crop fields. In those instances, nothing has even waved an ear, as the target has been the throat patch just below the jaw bones. Instanct grounding in every case. Familiarity and confidence definitely breed success, and I have a lot more confidence when I'm packing something that has a proven track record from my shoulder. On buck hunts where happenings may be more spontaneous, I do pack something with a bit more authority. With exception of not acquiring a new firearm, I think it's a good idea. If one's really at a loss after the discussion here, ask the kid. If he/she has the passion, they may already have an idea of what they want to try. 1Minute

I read with interest Millerman's suggestion to down load the .260 for less recoil. I can return to a more standard load once my son is bigger and can handle more recoil. Can you not do the same thing with the 7mm-08?

It looks like the 7mm-08 out performs the .260. It has less recoil, greater MPBR and more energy at 200 yds using a 140gr. bullet in both calibers.

The Barnes X-Bullet in the 220 Swift just might be the answer. PMC loaded these a few years ago and I hunted two seasons with them in my 30-06. They're great bullets and should hold up to the velocity of the 220 Swift to give adequate penetration. The energy though minimal at 200 yards is as much as a 30-30.

Thanks for all your advice and help.

------------------------------------Recoil-------MPBR-------E @
Cartridge -------------------------Energy------(yds.)-----200 yds
.220 Swift (55 at 3800)------------5.3--------- 264---------1090
.243 Win. (75 at 3400)-------------7.2---------237---------1194
.243 Win. (100 at 2960)----------- 8.8--------- 283---------1332
.257 Roberts (117 at 2650)--------9.0---------271---------1480
6mm Rem. (100 at 3100)----------10.0--------296--------1470
.30-30 Win. (150 at 2400)---------10.6--------225-------- 858
.25-06 Rem. (120 at 3000)--------12.5--------291-------- 1644
7mm-08 Rem. (140 at 2860)------12.6------- 285---------1793
.260 Rem. (140 at 2750)-----------13.6-------271---------1712
.308 Win. (150 at 2800)------------15.8-------275---------1744
.30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2910)--------17.6--------287---------1827

charts are charts. which can vary or be skewed one way or the other. I take charts as a starting point only.



yes the 7mm-08 will out perform the 260 with the same weight bullets up close, but farther out the 260 can catch up to the 7mm-08 due to SD/BC

in my opinion the 260 and 7mm-08 are so close that it doesn't matter for a deer rifle, but the 260 does have a advantage when it comes to getting the most killing power with the least amount of recoil. if you start going below 140 grains with a 7mm your losing SD, true you do lose SD with a 100 grain 264 cal, but it's good enough for deer untill he gets bigger.



up here in the north (midwest) I consider the 243 to be the bottom bullet wise, and the 7.62x39 or 30-30 the bottom powder/power wise.

I also consider the 260 or 7mm-08 or 6.5x55 to be the best all round deer cartridges. I have a 7mm rem mag, don't needed it, to much, sure I would use it out west were your shooting farther more often.



now down south the deer are smaller sized in someplaces, so you may get by with the sub 243 rounds...........but......LOL

here comes the flames <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I will go one step farther with this statement:



the 260 rem has obsoleted the 243 as a deer round. true maybe if your using it as a combo deer/varmit gun it maybe different story.



I know the 260 will never replace the 243 in the market place, as the main stream public doesn't seem to care for the 264, plus they want ammo they can buy at the local store with out looking around for it, but the 260 beats the crap out of the 243 as a deer round........................ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

A 220 swift in the hands of an inexperienced hunter is a wounded deer waiting to happen. Stick with the 260 or 7mm and you will be much happier.

I think you made a great choice. I had the same dilemma and here's what's happened with us. I picked a Model 7 Youth in 7mm-08. Here in Minnesota, my boy can't hunt until he's 12. I bought the rifle a couple years ago, and my son has proceeded to grow like a weed, and I'm certain this gun will need restocked to a full length stock by next year. My 12 year old son is 5'9'' tall and wears my size 11 boots like they're his. If I had it to do over again, I'd stay with the 7mm-08, but in a full length stock. I've got a daughter coming up a couple years behind "junior" and I'll probably do something in a .260 for her-she's not big framed like my son is.

My son was ten last year when I bought him the 7mm-08 Winchester Model 70 Featherweight. I thought at the time that it might be a bit much, the difference in his growth from last year to this year is incredible. He killed his first deer with it last season and now handles it very well. I highly recommend the 7mm-08, the two instant kills he made with it last year were very impressive. Neither deer knew what had hit them.

I've got a Ruger compact and am very fond of it. It has a reduced length of pull and a 16.5" barrel. Mine is 223 but I'm sure it is availble in 7-08. If you handload use some lighter loads or use the starting loads.
This rifle would work great for small framed shooters.
Virgil B.

my experience with kids is that they are more effected by muzzle blast than recoil.....

most kids don't mind my dads old 26" barreled /06, but a short .243 is too much noise..... john w

Just thought I'd update you. I bought my son the Remington M-700 Special Edition in 7mm-08. It has an ADL action in a special composite Skyline camo stock. I handloaded 120 grain Nosler BT's using 48 grains of H-380 (powder on hand for my 220 Swift). This load has a MV of 2977fps. I sighted in the rifle 2" high at 100 yards, giving me a PBR of about 290.

I let my son shoot my 220 Swift all summer getting use to the action, experiencing minor recoil and expermenting with the eye relief. This gun is also a M-700. I never let him shoot the 7mm-08.

Opening day of deer season, we were in the stand at 6:15. Sunrise was 7:20. We can legally shoot thirty minutes before sunrise. At 7:15, I spot a deer at about 130 yards in the beanfield. He takes his shot, the deer runs about 100 yards and collapses. He clipped the top rear two inches of both lungs. A nice four point buck.

Not bad for a nine year old boys first deer.

That is awesome! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Congratulations to him (and you, Dad!)
Bet he never felt the rifle kick either! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

--Mike

How about the Remington Model 7 in .260 Rem.

That's outstanding, congratulations!

I'm on pins and needles myself waiting to see if my son and I got drawn for Javelina so he can take his first big game animal with his new Model 70 compact in February.

Good show!

that caliber should be just fine if you hand-load it. And it may be just fine with store bought loads. It just depends on the kid. I'm 16 and 175lbs but when I was 12 I got my first centerfire. I had been shootin the .243 in a m99 since I was 9. But we decided that a savage m110 in 300win-mag. I shot a box of shells through it. and was fully afraid of that gun. (lots of .22 ammo to cure that flinch) this is the first year that I have shot it since.

OUTSTANDING Sir, my heartfelt congrats to your son, WELL DONE! 'Sides now we have another hunter in our midst.

A 243 or 6mm Rem with 85 grn. Barnes x bullets. Will drop any deer in his tracks, at out to 250 yds. Been there done that.