I think I have temporarily stepped back from the edge on my recent burning desire to buy a new varmint rifle in .223. I own a Cooper Mod 21 in .204 and a Anschutz Mod 1733D KL in .22 Hornet. I also own a tactical Mini-14 in .223. (I had previously started out looking at 22-250 but changed my mind when I read an article in the most recent American Rifleman that discussed Hornady's new development of the 53 grain .223 that nearly replicates the 55 grain 22-250. Since I already had the Mini-14 I could shoot the same ammo in both. I'm not yet a reloader, so factory ammo is my only source.)

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My initial reasoning for getting another varmint rifle was my friend convinced me the .223 would be more effective on coyotes on open prairie at long range than the .204. Sounds reasonable, right? The Hornet can easily handle coyote, fox, and bobcat at closer range in the woodlands. Fur damage from either rifle would be minimal. Not so sure about the .223. When I started shopping for a varmint rifle in .223 I looked at Savage and the TC Icon Predator Hunter. Any way I looked at it I was looking at about $800 to $1000 dollars. I even considered the Howa 1500 Varmint around $500. Just couldn't decide on a rifle so I broke out the .204 and fondled her for a while and convinced myself I didn't really need another varmint rifle. What do you think?

If you don't shoot a 30-06 you just don't get it!

get the cooper, its sexy!

i doudt "need" would ever be the answer on this forum

I believe he already has the Cooper...

I have 6 rifles and a contender barrel in .223.
I have 4 rifles in .22 Hornet
I have 1 rifle in .204 Ruger but expect more to follow.

I believe you need to get another rifle...of some kind. Just saying...

Elwood

In the past month I bought a Mod 84 Kimber in .260, a Mod 82 Kimber in .22 WMR, and a Siamese Mauser in 45-70, so maybe that's why I slowed my roll on the .223 he he eh

I'd be spending more time worrying about twist and then go from there as that will narrow it down FAST. Might be a hint there.

I think the OP has the middle range already covered, so clearly he wants a Swift. Or learn to handload and get a .22-250AI

and edit to add, I see Hornady now has a Superperformance load for the .22-250 - 50gr at 4000fps

The .204 Coop has 1 in 12 twist which handles the light weight bullets pretty effectively. At least one .223 Savage I was contemplating can be had in a 7 or 9 inch twist which would be ideal for the heavier .223 bullets I would think.



18145 223 REM 1 in 7" 26" 46.25" 11 lbs 1 $1315.00

You're missing a .218 Bee there.

I've had great success with my Clay Spencer built 204. I've dropped a number of yotes with it. 35 grain Bergers are the ticket.

Actually, this whole search for another varmint rifle started with a Swift. I had a custom made Mauser in my sights but read about a couple of negatives . . . one is that ammo is much more scarce and expensive than .223 and the Swift tended to burn the throat faster, as quick as 250 rounds. Don't know about that, but I did switch my search to the 22-250, then to the .223 for the reasons given. The performance of the .218 Bee seemed to equate closer to the 22 Hornet than a .223. I guess I am just trying to be practical.

I have had the .204, .223, and 22-250. I wanted only one weapon, without a doubt, I would go with the .204. The ballistics on the 40 grain .204 round are almost identical, out to 500 yards, to the 50 grain rounds in the 22-250. That's saying a lot.

The big limitation on the .204 caliber actually has nothing to do with the caliber itself but instead with the typical barrels the gun makers are using on their rifles. Most of them are putting 12" twist barrels on their guns because the 35 grain rounds were the first ones to pick up popularity.

Since then, the 40 grain rounds came out which I would argue is the perfect size round for the .204 caliber. It strikes a great balance between velocity and stability. The problem lies in the fact that almost all factory barrels MARGINALLY stabilize the round because of the 12" twist. I have a custom, McGowan barrel in a 11" twist that I would say is the minimum reliable twist rate. If I were to do it again, I would likely go with a 10" rate to handle some of the higher BC 40 grain rounds.

Bottom line, from personal experience, if you got a .204, with a custom barrel in a 10" twist rate, and shot 40 grain rounds, you will see the best combination of a high kinetic energy round, that is more than deadly enough, that can also maintain stability at reasonably long ranges of 300-500 yards.

Another thing ti consider is that the gun makers are making the .204 barrels too long. Based on a typical high energy factory load, which goes close to 4,000 feet per second, the round reaches maximum velocity at around 23 inches. Most factory barrels are 26 inches because that's so typical of a varmint length, but the round actually loses energy after 23-24 inches. My barrel is 24 inches and I would never get one longer than that.

lol, must be single, I'd love to hear you run that version of practical past the missus!

She caught me with all my guns out of the safe one night. She asked me where I got all those rifles. From that point on she has just leaned to accept it that I am a sick sick man. ha ha

Owning an Anschutz mannlicher in 22 Hornet already makes you a baller. Anything else you buy at this point is just gravy.

Brian.

I just measured my .204 Cooper. It is 25" - allow for about 2" for the round and that equates to about 23 inches, the maximum velocity length you mention.

Sounds like you need an AR platform with a 1:7 or 1:8 twist

Check these ballistic out, comparing the 40grain .204 round to the 50grain 22-250 round. Those two are the flattest two rounds in factory loads for those calibers, from my experience owning both calibers. Notice how the .204 basically beats the 22-250 in every metric out at 500 yards:

.204 40 grain Hornay V-max:

Velocity (fps): 2133
Energy (ft-lbs): 404
Trajectory (in): -28.10

22-250 50 grain Hornay V-max:

Velocity (fps): 1878
Energy (ft-lbs): 392
Trajectory (in): -32.80

seems like if I was going to be investing in a spendy rifle... I'd spend my pennies and learn how to reload first...

I can make a 223 duplicate anything from a 22 LR to the 223... and everything in 22 cal in between.

I can also make it duplicate a 204...( I am sure that will get some folks on their soapbox...)

Just the kind of data I was looking for. Thanks. As for reloading, I agree I need to get started. I spend so much time on the road I simply have not taken the time to set up shop at home.

I think I'd spend the time and money becoming a reloader and then load the heck out of what I have.

On the other hand my Ruger #1 in .22 Hornet is simply cooler than anything yet listed so there's where I'd go.

What is the MV on the two rifles listed as?

Hemi

Muzzle velocity, factory load V-max ammo:

.204 40 grain: 3900 ft/sec
22-250 50 grain: 3800 ft/sec

I would really be interested to see the .223 load that can achieve the 28 inch drop of the .204 40 grain round at 500 yards.

Well ya got me there Outlaw Patriot....

unless you allow me a 2.2 inch high zero at 100 yds, and I'll return you a 23.8 inch drop at 500 yds...

at least according to Nosler's Manual for their 40 grain ballistic tip..

and sorry, but can't locate the Hornady Manual for trajectory on the 40 grain V Max.. but it and the 40 grain Sierra HP aren't off that much...

if you still want my load, PM me off line..no need to turn this into the basis for the usual forum 20 page name calling antics..

I needed to update this thread for posterity's sake. I went ahead and got the ICON Precision Hunter in .223 just because life is short and there are so many rifles.