I am thinking of fixing my marlin 30-30 into maybe some form of "tactical" rifle. Does anyone have ideas what would make up their "tactical" 30-30 if they wanted something along those lines? Any comments welcomed!
I am thinking of fixing my marlin 30-30 into maybe some form of "tactical" rifle. Does anyone have ideas what would make up their "tactical" 30-30 if they wanted something along those lines? Any comments welcomed!
Clyde, you opened yourself up on that one!
A Marlin .30-30 is already a "Tactical Rifle". Just ask Clint Smith.
If you meant "Tacticool Rifle", well then, there are a number of things you can do including a side-mount sling, "Butt-Buddy" ammo slide, Picatinny rails for lights & laser mounting, enlarged padded loop, trigger job, fiber-optic iron sights or XS Sights, synthetic stock, steel follower, silicon magazine tube spring, laser, flashlight, holographic sight, Ceramic coatings inside and out, racing stripes, and tassels for the pistol grip.
I think that about covers it, unless someone else has a better idea.
Jeff Cooper used to write of the "Brooklyn Special"; a standard Winchester .30-30 equipped with a ghost ring rear peep and a high-visibility front post. Said rifle still held to be fairly innocuous by the Draconian permitting system in NYC.
I believe Wilson Combat makes the sights, I suppose you could also get a different finish, that seems sorta pointless though. Along those same lines sythetic stocks and forends can be had.
A low power Scout Scope too might apply, if ya aint actually downing game a .30-30 is still dangerous past 300 yards, especially with a scope I'd guess.
Actually, the standard Marlin 336 is pretty good right out of the box, the ghost peep being the greatest improvement. And heck, any peep rear sight can become a "ghost ring" merely by screwing out the apeture insert.
I think that about covers it, unless someone else has a better idea.
Ed
Ed; You see sir, that is why I've always been a 94 aficionado as opposed to Marlin's admittedly fine rifles.
No chance of putting tassels on a nonexistent grip now is there?
To the OP, in all seriousness, the 94 that used to ride under my left leg when checking cows for a rancher buddy and that still sits in the scabbard when we tent in grizzly country has had the following modifications done by me. -new fore end built with minimal barrel contact -100year old Lyman tang sight installed and sighted in for 125yds. This one has a flip down "ghost ring" option too, proving not too much is new under the sun. -large and easy to see copper bead front sight installed. - folding rear sight installed on barrel sighted for 50yds. -trigger job -slicked up the action so it feeds much, much better. -glass bedded the butt stock in for a perfect fit into the rear action socket. -installed steel butt plate from a '20's vintage carbine, because it looks better to me.. -the butt sock that Ed mentioned sits on there too, though it does like to slide off a bit too easily. -several coats of Tru-Oil on all exterior and interior wood surfaces, though I really should have put down a base of epoxy first and just might do that some winter.
Anyway, it might not be "tactical" per se, but as the late Col. Cooper well knew, in the hands of a practiced individual, a decent lever gun in .30-30 would be a poor choice to stand in front of.
Were you watching the new season of Top Shot recently? I watched it last night, and had the exact same thought... Some (or all?_ gun company is completely missing out on a nitch which needs a "tacticool" lever gun to fill the void. LOL
In a nation where most have access to semi-auto's, a lever action rifle isn't what I'd want to be arming myself with. A guy with only half assed skills and a 20 rnd semi-auto can suppress you, then eliminate you. I've done it myself and seen it done time and time again in force on force training. Big advantage to semi-auto in the hands of even a semi-competent rifleman; just ask any WWII Japanese vet. Had to suck to be on the receiving end of a squad of M1's when armed with an Arisaka.
Now with that being said, a lever action rifle beats no rifle at all by a long shot.
Just paint "stupid" on the stock, and be done with it.
+1!
If given a choice, I'd take a FAL for a main battle weapon (liberty teeth) over an AR15, but even a Ruger 10/22 in .22LR would give me serious pause if all I had to go against someone armed with the .22LR, was a levergun - regardless of caliber/cartridge in said levergun!
The Marlin will hold? Seven? Or Eight?
The M10/22 should be equipped with a magazine capable of holding 25 or 30 or even 50 rounds!!
Why not scrap the levergun in favor an SKS with 10rd stripper-clips?
I won't be foolish enough to insist a 7.62X39 is "as powerful" as a .30-30. IT IS NOT! But the rooskie-round with its 122-125 bullets will still shoot as far as most lever-30-30's.
I am thinking of fixing my marlin 30-30 into maybe some form of "tactical" rifle. Does anyone have ideas what would make up their "tactical" 30-30 if they wanted something along those lines? Any comments welcomed!
Clyde, you opened yourself up on that one!
A Marlin .30-30 is already a "Tactical Rifle". Just ask Clint Smith.
If you meant "Tacticool Rifle", well then, there are a number of things you can do including a side-mount sling, "Butt-Buddy" ammo slide, Picatinny rails for lights & laser mounting, enlarged padded loop, trigger job, fiber-optic iron sights or XS Sights, synthetic stock, steel follower, silicon magazine tube spring, laser, flashlight, holographic sight, Ceramic coatings inside and out, racing stripes, and tassels for the pistol grip.
I think that about covers it, unless someone else has a better idea.
Bolt a flashlite (excuse me, tac light) to the mag tube, like guys do for a shotgun.
Folding stock is mandatory.
Picatinny rail on top with a Ecog or similar. Co-witnessed to a peep, duh.
Low-mass firing pin.
Heat shroud on the barrel.
Tactical loading port hatch.
Thread barrel for a flash suppresor.
Hard chrome the whole [bleep] thing. Or Parkerize.
Replace fore-end with a tri-rail. Hell, a quad rail. Mount a sling attachment point, laser illuminator, and........... something else to it. Oooh! One of those vertical grips.
Gotta have extra ammo somewhere for those mutant cannibal firefights. Elastic loop thingy on the folding buttstock?
I guess if you live in a state that bans or restricts semi-autos...
...I'd probably get one of those Marlins in your fave calibers that holds as many rounds as possible. Since you won't be shooting a .223 or .308, I'd use the Hornady Leverevolution rounds with pointy flex tips for best feasible trajectory.
But even in California, you can have an AR, if properly configured.
I am thinking of fixing my marlin 30-30 into maybe some form of "tactical" rifle. Does anyone have ideas what would make up their "tactical" 30-30 if they wanted something along those lines? Any comments welcomed!
As I recall lever actions were the original 'assault rifle'. Nothing much has changed in the last 150 years, but a good receiver sight makes them a contender out to a couple hundred yards, give or take. Danged if I don't like the Model 94 and the Marlin guns in .30-30, but there are alternate chambers in those models which provide for longer range or more bullets as one deems important.
Suppression is noise. It does not hurt much of anything.
I think a lot of the posts have covered the humorous, but if you are serious about making your 30-30 a rifle that can quickly engage targets at short range, I would say put a good micro red dot sight like the Aimpoint H-1 (or T-1 or R-1) on it. Have a ghost ring sight setup as a backup.
With an appropriate zero, you should be able to hold dead on out to around 200 yards with impacts not more than 3" above or below point of aim. A person who can shoot accurately past 200 yards without magnifying sights is truly exceptional, and the 30-30 practical effective range is probably not much more than around 200 yards.
I've been thinking the red dot sight would be good for the 30-30 for hunting situations, too.
I am thinking of fixing my marlin 30-30 into maybe some form of "tactical" rifle. Does anyone have ideas what would make up their "tactical" 30-30 if they wanted something along those lines? Any comments welcomed!
Clyde, you opened yourself up on that one!
A Marlin .30-30 is already a "Tactical Rifle". Just ask Clint Smith.
If you meant "Tacticool Rifle", well then, there are a number of things you can do including a side-mount sling, "Butt-Buddy" ammo slide, Picatinny rails for lights & laser mounting, enlarged padded loop, trigger job, fiber-optic iron sights or XS Sights, synthetic stock, steel follower, silicon magazine tube spring, laser, flashlight, holographic sight, Ceramic coatings inside and out, racing stripes, and tassels for the pistol grip.
I think that about covers it, unless someone else has a better idea.
IIRC, somebody showed up to one of Jeff Cooper's classes with a 16" '94 in .30-30, to the vast amusement of the staff.
Guy said it was the only thing he was allowed to have Noo Yuk City. More amused laughter from the staff.
Guy proceeded to run the courses along side his AR-equipped fellow students, and damned if he didn't do pretty good by comparison.
Hmmmm, says Jeff Cooper. He buys some '94s and has his no-longer amused staff run the course with them. And damned if they didn't do pretty good themselves.
And so, says Jeff Cooper, in one of his oft-reprinted articles, he came to believe that a man with a '94 .30-30 was armed very well, indeed.
A 30-30 only holds 5-6 rounds. How about a Marlin .44 mag or .357 mag? They hold 10 rounds. Can match your sidearm. You could modify the magazine tube made like a .22 auto and have preloaded tubes you can carry on your back for quick reloading.
Years ago i read an article in a LE mag. talking about 30-30's as patrol rifles. I thought heck, 30-30's have been used as patrol rifles long before this article came out. I wish Savage would come back out with the 99 in the same quality as was used in the 50's & 60's as the two that i own.
A levergun left in plain ol' walnut and blue with a Williams reciever peep still looks sort of innocuous but works just as well as a jazzed-out "tactical" version.
Like I said, merely unscrewing the rear sight aperture leaves a functional "ghost ring" sight, or does on mine at least.
A levergun left in plain ol' walnut and blue with a Williams reciever peep still looks sort of innocuous but works just as well as a jazzed-out "tactical" version.
If, by "tactical" we mean "get off my lawn," that will do very well!
THE TACTICAL 30-30 LEVER ACTION RIFLE Copyright 1999, Gabriel Suarez All Rights Reserved
Ask any student of small arms to name the most typically American rifle and chances are that they will name the .30-30 lever action rifle. Manufactured for over a century by Marlin, Winchester, and others - the lever action invokes images of the Old West. We see Jimmy Stewart in "Winchester '73" smiting the enemies of justice and freedom with his "repeater". We see John Wayne admonishing his adversaries to "fill their hands" as he gallops forward, a stubby Winchester in each hand. And, of course, we see photos of that most American of presidents - Theodore Roosevelt wielding his lever action against all manner of beasties in Africa. This ubiquitous and understated weapon has played a very major role in this country's history.
Today the lever action is most often seen in the hands of close range deer hunters as a brush gun. It is not likely to be the first weapon that comes to our minds when the talk turns to fighting. But make no mistake friends, as a fighting (anti-personnel) weapon, the lever action is just as useful and deadly today, on a lonely stretch of highway in the bad part of town, as it was in the dusty cow towns of the Kansas Territory more than a century ago.
Today a rifle of this sort might be kept in tactical storage in a hall closet, above the hearth, or in the trunk of a car for unexpected social unpleasantries. In such a role the lever action has several advantages over other weapons that are more commonly thought of as fighting tools.
Primarily, the lever action is inexpensive. Used examples in perfect working condition may be had for about a hundred bucks. Even brand new weapons will set you back less than the price of a night on the town for two. Compare that with the price of a more military-like, and hopefully still legal, Sturmgewehr-fighting rifle (If you can find one for sale these days)!
The ammunition (.30-30 Winchester Centerfire) has all the characteristics desirable in a mid-range fighting rifle cartridge. In fact, the ballistics of the .30-30 cartridge are amazingly similar to those for the most specifically designed fighting cartridge of all, the 7.62X39 Russian chambered in the AK-47. Shot for shot, the .30-30 will do everything you could ask from a mid-range tactical rifle. And it will do these things far better than many military weapons will!
Being "sporting guns", lever actions are usually issued with fairly good triggers which are crisp and conducive to hitting. Even if the trigger action is rough on some pieces, it is a simple matter to have it brought up to speed by a gunsmith. Additionally, you'd have to look long and hard to find a gunsmith that isn't familiar with the lever action lock-work. This is certainly more than we can say about the gritty as-issued, or modified triggers of the various SKS, AK, HK etc.
Finally, the lever action rifle is more compact in its 16 inch barrel configuration than most other rifles that might be chosen to fill the role. Equally important in this age of sensitive, touchie-feelie, felon huggers, it looks innocent. Don't dismiss this last attribute too easily. In our troubled and ignorant times, juries release violent murderers and rapists because they are not intelligent enough to discern the real facts from the spun fiction. Such things as a bayonet lug or a 30 round magazine from East Germany may confuse them enough to change your life's plans...drastically.
The standard .30-30 will suffice as issued for most duties. But enhancement may be undertaken to improve its performance. One area where improvements may be made is the sights. These weapons are issued with the old buckhorn type sights. They will do, but a rear ghost ring aperture sight with its accompanying front sight post will, in my opinion, do much better. These are available from various sources.
My .30-30 carbine has a modified 1903-A3 rear sight whose aperture has been opened up to ghost ring configuration. This rear sight, coupled with a ROBAR front sight at the end of the barrel, works very well indeed.
Also useful is a leather butt-cuff. This keeps extra ammunition on the weapon itself. This may compromise the concept of the light carbine, but if you have to grab the rifle and run out of your house at 0'dark 30 one night to repel the Visigoths, you'll be glad the extra ammo was there. I know that I was always glad to have a few extras!
Winchester still provides their lever action rifle in the "Wrangler" 16 inch barrel configuration. Marlin once made a similar model called the "Marauder". If your fighting lever gun is too long, it is a simple matter to have your excess barrel lopped off at the local gunsmithy (make certain it remains at least 16" long to keep "you know who" away). Such a conversion will greatly enhance handling, as well as keep the spirit of the compact weapon.
I thus modified an old Marlin 336 rifle that I rescued from the used gun rack at the local gun store. Total cost of the entire package was less than two hundred bucks (including a nice 4X Leupold scope, which I eventually mounted on another rifle!). It is short, light, hard hitting, rugged, cheap to replace if necessary...and well, it looks innocent. I obtained a supply of hunting grade PMC 150 grain .30-30 ammo and tested the combative utility of the carbine via a series of rifle exercises from Suarez Internationals Tactical Rifle school. The drills involve both close range reactive shooting as well as longer distances possible in combative encounters. For purposes of uniformity, all drills commenced from the Rhodesian ready position - that is gun held loosely at the belt level with the muzzle depressed to the offside.
Head shots were fired from the shoulder at 25 meters. Body shots were next at 50 meters, 75 meters, and 100 meters. Multiple targets were shot at 50 meters distance as well as up close at 7 meters. Close quarters targets were engaged both with snap shots from the shoulder, as well as from the Close Contact CQB position. Approximately 200 rounds were fired to get an overall impression of the lever action rifle in the anti-personnel role. Our findings were that there is very little that a realistic rifleman (acting as an individual - not a member of a military rifle squad) can expect from his weapon that the lever action cannot deliver.
If you are in need of an economic and effective rifle that offers as many advantages as a single rifleman can use within "defensive" or "urban" conflict distances, take a serious look at the lever action carbine. I think you'll like what you see.
BMT; Thanks for putting up that video, I appreciate it.
Clint Smith has always struck me as a real down to earth, practical type of instructor. I've never met the man but base this on some of the comments attributed to him as well as reports from those who've been through his courses.
While I'm not sure it's in the future for me to attend one of his classes, I may have to invest in the DVD as it looks quite educational.
Thanks again and all the best to you and yours BMT.
In a nation where most have access to semi-auto's, a lever action rifle isn't what I'd want to be arming myself with. A guy with only half assed skills and a 20 rnd semi-auto can suppress you, then eliminate you. I've done it myself and seen it done time and time again in force on force training. Big advantage to semi-auto in the hands of even a semi-competent rifleman; just ask any WWII Japanese vet. Had to suck to be on the receiving end of a squad of M1's when armed with an Arisaka.
Now with that being said, a lever action rifle beats no rifle at all by a long shot.
It'll over penetrate. Just sayin' 'cause I never recovered a .30-30 bullet from a critter in my life and it's been a lot of critters.
On other points, there was mention earlier about putting a red dot on the roof of a lever gun. Well, to my eye it is both a clash of technology and a brilliant idea for assisting older eyes. Made such a bold suggestion to a neighbor a couple years back and he rushed out and got a Millett SP1 on his Marlin. That's when the dying started...
Won't get beyond a good receiver sight for my own for some years though, maybe a detachable scout mount down the road when I get feeble. Or duct tape.
"This little 94 Winchester in 30-30 continues to delight us. It is no 400-meter weapon, but 400 meters is a fanciful range for any but certain specialties. Out to 200 meters it does just fine, and that is the distance inside which the overwhelming majority of effective rifle shots are taken."
From "The Gargantuan Gunsite Gossip" Volume IX, November 13, 1989
A lever is the only design that you can reload while shouldered & shootin'. No bolt to open for loading and no magazines to replace.
If it's good enough for Lucas McCain vs the Germans, it's good enough!
That's not true. I have to remove my right hand from the receiver in order to put another round in my Marlin 336C taking my shooting hand completely off the gun. My 870's, 11-87's and Ithaca 37 can be reloaded with my left hand leaving my right hand, my shooting hand ready to fire.
Ever shoot and reload an AR 15. Push the mag. release, the mag. falls out, stick another magazine in it, push the slide release and a round is chambered and ready to go. You can reload 30 or 40 round magazines in a few seconds, 100 round beta drums, a few seconds more. Doesn't get much easier then this.
Ever shoot and reload an AR 15. Push the mag. release, the mag. falls out, stick another magazine in it, push the slide release and a round is chambered and ready to go. You can reload 30 or 40 round magazines in a few seconds, 100 round beta drums, a few seconds more. Doesn't get much easier then this.
Ever shoot and reload an AR 15. Push the mag. release, the mag. falls out, stick another magazine in it, push the slide release and a round is chambered and ready to go. You can reload 30 or 40 round magazines in a few seconds, 100 round beta drums, a few seconds more. Doesn't get much easier then this.
You left out, "Push the forward assist."
No I didn't. I've never had to use the forward assist on my RRA
I think that about covers it, unless someone else has a better idea.
Ed
Ed; You see sir, that is why I've always been a 94 aficionado as opposed to Marlin's admittedly fine rifles.
No chance of putting tassels on a nonexistent grip now is there?
To the OP, in all seriousness, the 94 that used to ride under my left leg when checking cows for a rancher buddy and that still sits in the scabbard when we tent in grizzly country has had the following modifications done by me. -new fore end built with minimal barrel contact -100year old Lyman tang sight installed and sighted in for 125yds. This one has a flip down "ghost ring" option too, proving not too much is new under the sun. -large and easy to see copper bead front sight installed. - folding rear sight installed on barrel sighted for 50yds. -trigger job -slicked up the action so it feeds much, much better. -glass bedded the butt stock in for a perfect fit into the rear action socket. -installed steel butt plate from a '20's vintage carbine, because it looks better to me.. -the butt sock that Ed mentioned sits on there too, though it does like to slide off a bit too easily. -several coats of Tru-Oil on all exterior and interior wood surfaces, though I really should have put down a base of epoxy first and just might do that some winter.
Anyway, it might not be "tactical" per se, but as the late Col. Cooper well knew, in the hands of a practiced individual, a decent lever gun in .30-30 would be a poor choice to stand in front of.
Hopefully that was some use to the OP.
All the best to you and yours Ed.
Dwayne
Thanks, friend Dwayne. Love the prose. Right on. Big smiles!
7 rounds with one in the chamber. How many do you need. Ever hear of "aiming"?
The brown bears in my country don't know "tactical" from squat. Me neither. My Dad's 1927 manufactured '94 is my regular carry gun for walk-abouts.
Some day, I may even shoot it again in need....
Killed my first deer in NoDak with it in '66. Haven't killed a thing with it since. With a good rest, it shoots slightly over inch groups at 100, with Lyman apeture sight (also old). Hell, my eyes were never that good! Planning on killing a moose with it before I die.
Killed my first moose with a Marlin 336, now sleeping with the fishes in the Tanana River in Interior Alaska. Worked fine. Didn't float worth a damn.
BMT; Thanks for putting up that video, I appreciate it.
Clint Smith has always struck me as a real down to earth, practical type of instructor. I've never met the man but base this on some of the comments attributed to him as well as reports from those who've been through his courses.
While I'm not sure it's in the future for me to attend one of his classes, I may have to invest in the DVD as it looks quite educational.
Thanks again and all the best to you and yours BMT.
Regards, Dwayne
Back when the economy was good I took my teenage son to Thunder Ranch for a two day training session. The firearm instruction was incredible, but the way Clint got my son and I working as a team of riflemen was absolutely fantastic.
He is one of the most down to earth guys I have met. He simply lacks ego, and always made us feel like we were competent at every turn.
I never feel under gunned with a lever action. Except for maybe the rim fires, they are all good 100 yard tools. On the flip side, I never feel like a .223 anything is enough gun for all purposes. A 30-30 on the other hand does feel like enough gun for the job most of the time.
Still I love the way 35 Remingtons feed through a side port.
![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/24HRC/qmynabw1uu.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab122/mkm1911/guns/nana/SSPX0777b.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Mannlicher/5_4.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj222/bmt4tax/rifle.jpg)
