http://news.yahoo.com/sheriff-hiker-mistakenly-shot-ore-bear-hunter-192316549.html

that hunter is an absolute dumbass. there is no excuse for shooting a human being in a hunting incident - "know your target and beyond".

"Ochoa was wearing dark-colored clothing when an Oregon man hunting for bear with his 12-year-old grandson saw something moving in the brush and fired one shot from a .270-caliber rifle, striking Ochoa, the Marion County Sheriff's Office said."

Probably an ill-advised choice of clothing during bear season.

Tragic stupidity all around I'd say.

Doesnt matter what he was wearing, no [bleep] excuse whatsoever for this. Idiot took a shot at something moving in the brush. Manslaughter at least.

No relief to the hunter's ultimate responsibility but people need to be smart when they are going into the woods in hunting seasons. Need to wear blaze even if they are not hunting.

Heard of worse too. A woman in my home town was hanging clothes in her backyard. Unfortunately she was wearing a brown coat with white gloves and you all can guess what happened. So caution in shooting but also caution in clothing too.

well I hope they take that guys license away.... shooting into the brush at a target you really didn't identify.. bad bad bad

True, but common sense tells you there are idiots about and a little orange may be nice.

Maybe the hunter was using one of those dangerous 700's...

Of course it is, but that guy might have been completely positive that what he saw was a bear. Completely wrong, but completely positive. I believe it could happen to anybody.

i agree with jnyork. manslaughter at a minimum.

Headline reads:
"Hunter Killed in Hunting Accident"

Anyone care to guess again?

WHAT A DUMBAZZ HUNTER! Know your target, PERIOD! Never shoot at sounds or unclear movement, NEVER!

He didn't see a bear because there wasn't a bear. He can claim that he saw a leperchaun holding hands with a midget, reality is he shot a man and if that looked like anything except a man then he didn't have a good enough view to shoot.

Slob hunter doesn't happen to anybody, it happens to slobs.

Geeze, some hopped up Oregon hunter, with a hot chamber, afraid of eating tag soup. Surprised it doesn't happen more.

You oughta' take this disgusting, and totally inappropriate picture down, azzwhole.

WTF is WRONG with you, anyway?

GTC

Yep, manslaughter or negligent homicide. Knowing your target is a responsibility that comes with pulling the trigger.

I'm recalling back in the 70's farmers in the Catskills painting "COW" on their cows, and among my realtives up there blaze orange on the dogs, blaze orange on themselves even (or especially) when walking down the driveway to check the mailbox (which got shot, the house got hit too).

More than any other group, hunters are the ones which chase all other users out of the woods. As the proportion of other users steadily rises, this well-founded fear of hunting season will kill the sport as quick as any other.

Birdwatcher

hey now... im a hopped up Oregon hunter with a hot chamber afraid of eating tag soup...


i just consider it a blemish on my hunting record when i get skunked though... i dont shoot at unidentified targets....

EXACTLY!!

A man is dead and this is what you post? You are a classless muther [bleep]. Damn..........

How do you know he was carrying hot? Were you there?

sad news - tragic for the victims family - the guy pulling the trigger - was no hunter -just a bumbass with a gun

Absolutely NO excuse for this. Surely this won't be left as an "accident"!?

anybody with the IQ of a cockroach does not go hiking in the woods during hunting season.

Hunter orange is all about revenue not safety or everyone in the woods this time of year would be required to wear it.

So, it's the victims fault here?

No excuse for not knowing your target. When in doubt, DON'T SHOOT!

You can't recall a bullet. This story is tragic.

If a sportsman true you�d be
Listen carefully to me. . .


Never, never let your gun
Pointed be at anyone.
That it may unloaded be
Matters not the least to me.

When a hedge or fence you cross
Though of time it cause a loss
From your gun the cartridge take
For the greater safety�s sake.

If twixt you and neighboring gun
Bird shall fly or beast may run
Let this maxim ere be thine
"Follow not across the line."

Stops and beaters oft unseen
Lurk behind some leafy screen.
Calm and steady always be
"Never shoot where you can�t see."

You may kill or you may miss
But at all times think this:
"All the pheasants ever bred
Won�t repay for one man dead."

"Early Instruction"
By Carl Kauba
c. 1902

[bleep] up all the way around.

Very sad.



Couldn't imagine hunting anywhere even remotely close to a jogger in the first place.

Yeah, my first thought. Really classy post there, TRH.

The day my parents gave me my first gun they also gave me that printed and framed. I always kept it hanging beside the gun cabinet, damn good advice and something to always remember.

As far as I'm concerned there are no hunting accidents, someone has always done something wrong that caused the "accident" either shooting without identifying the target or what's behind it, or simple careless handling of a gun.
The fact is guns don't kill people, people kill people.

There will come a time when all the OTHER user groups in the woods will become sick of the quite lethal threat imposed by hunting. I expect the last stronghold of hunting wil be pay-as-you-hunt on private lands. Heck, even many HUNTERS wont set foot on public lands in season.

Birdwatcher

last i checked, people weren't required to "know" when hunting season was before taking a hike in the woods.


know your target

Reminds me of the hunter who was taking "sound shots".

Tragic all the way around on this deal.

I do not, or ever will, stay out of the the woods during times when other people hunt. If you follow your logic, then you won't hunt during hunting season either.

And I would be surprised if I'm not smarter than you.

The reality is that a lot of guys hunt with desperation. They get so worked up with success rates and tag soup, that they are literally willing to risk killing a fellow man for success. Quick shots, hot rifles, wanting a scope so they can paste crosshairs on something they can't even really see in low light, etc. It's all getting ridiculous. It's really sad.

Lets bet on it.. I've got a $100 saying he was hot, and I'm liking my odds.

I was taught muzzle control as the golden rule, of course common sense was not an issue then. It seems muzzle control needs to be placed on par with self control.

What a bummer, sorry for the family and the young lad that had to see this.

There are places that I will not hunt because of the Hunter population is too dangerously thick. you could easily be shot by a stray bullet when a Deer comes by, I do Hunt but go to areas less populated by hunters.


If you are not hunting and go into the woods during hunting season then you are not smarter than me of course you have the right to wander around in the woods anytime you want, but it is your dumb azz that will be shot, not mine.

Let me interpret for the rest of the 'fire, as they ain't following. "So many slob, idiot hunters out there, that it's damn near suicidal to walk around in the woods during hunting season". (based on what I've read on this forum, OR seems like a hotspot for idiots) (not including guys like rogue or spike)

I'm equally as cautious. I never hunt an area if I see a rig parked anywhere nearby. I simply go on to the next spot.

You have the right to travel Scott st. just north of the Univ. of Houston, but it's not a good idea-day or night- if you aren't black and then it's just dangerous. That said, I guess the shooter determined his target had no cubs. Jeeps and school busses have been shot crossing open areas by deer hunters. Stress and anticipation can influence how the brain interprets (vision) what the eye sees (sight), which is why observers of crime can report so many different and conflicting stories. What is scary is that the shooter probably saw fur, claws and teeth. Many men have seen angels- and married them

Some hunter want to fill their tags so bad that they actually see something that isn't there and that is how hunting accidents happen. The hunter eye and brain seen a bear until he fired the shot and then reality sets in and he see he made a tragic mistake that can't be taken back. Rule number always identify your target . He not only destroyed another human life but his and his grandsons along with it.

Tell us how the grandson's life is destroyed.

Negligent.
That guy's done hunting, and once the courts get done with him, done having a life.

Pray that the bitter cup passes us by.

The general population � which is mostly nonhunters � tends to not know when it's hunting season. I'm no longer able to hunt, so I don't make it a point to know when the season opens, and no public notice comes to my attention unless I go looking for it.

So we can't assume that the victim knew that the woods were full of hunters that day.

And most people assume that hunters know what they're doing. "I'm obviously not a bear, so nobody's going to shoot at me."

Generally, only responsible hunters are aware of the fact that some "hunters" are irresponsible slobs,

(Though many nonhunters believe that all hunters are slobs.)

Kind of a sad mentality that if you walk in the woods during hunting season without looking like a traffic cone you are endangering your life recklessly.

Couldn't disagree more with the bolded statement. We, the hunters pose the threat to others with ill thought out actions such as the hunter in the story. We know when the seasons are because that's what we do. Expecting others to know the ins and outs of what we do and expect them to take precautions to protect themselves from totally 100% preventable "accidents" is expecting too much of the other people that have every right to be out there at the same time doing something else.

I'm of two minds on the hunter orange requirements. On one hand it's good to be able to see other hunters easily for many reasons, one of which is to be able to avoid them. On the other hand if the hunter expects everyone else to be wearing orange it can lead to a lax attitude about other things that aren't orange and that can lead to "accidents" which really are really terrible firearms handling practices. You don't shoot at what you think is an animal. If you don't know that it is your legal quarry and that it's safe to shoot (backstop, proximity to other things you might not feel good about putting a bullet in) then it's pretty simple, don't shoot.

I spent two whole days targeting one very large buck this week. His rack was well outside the ears wide and over double his ear height high but I can't shoot unless there are three points on one side at least. I let him walk 6 times because I wasn't 100% sure that he had the needed points, not even an eyeguard on one side. As far as I could tell, even with my nearly magic Swarovski 10x40s, he was a very large forkhorn buck running a dozen does. That's the way it works. Being safe and being legal trump bagging something you think might be a bear, deer, or wildebeast.

I have friends who moved to Oregon and told me there is a mentality of making "brush" shots. I pray this man was not one of those who thinks that idea was OK.

That said, I hunt in Oregon all the time, I do not wear Orange and I feel safe.

The real culprit here is government and "The North American Model" of game management. When your overriding concern is to sell as many licenses and tags as you can you end up with low success rates. And, human nature being what it is, some people shoot fast to try and beat the odds. We need to rethink the idea of lots of tags and low success rates.

I believe, really believe, that only the number of tags should be sold that results in a 100% success rate not damaging the game population: then let the tag holder take their animal any way and at any time they like. Make your own mind up as to what you want out of the experience, instead of having a ethic imposed upon you. If you had 364 days to get an animal you would be unlikely to shoot at moving brush.

Last, my prayers go out to those who were affected by this, it is tragic.

Pa is a state of many hunters, you would have to live in a cave isolated from all human contact to not know when it is hunting season , especially the first day of Deer season when the schools are closed for the first two days.

The main problem is the swarm of out of state hunters that decend upon us, I have counted in excess of 120 vehicles in a 4 mile streach of forrest road where I once hunted. you can literly see blaze orange about every 100 yds, so would anyone in their right mind want to go hiking there? I won't even hunt there.

Prayers said for deceased's man's family.

Yep, it's the government's fault. Give me a [bleep] break.

The shooter needs his MF azz kicked and jail time. It is not an accident, it is clear and utter negligence.

The silly [bleep] notion that anything less should be considered is retarded. To not punish this azzwipe encourages others to be as stupid as this jackass. "Oops" just doesn't cover this kind of bullchit.

I don't even drive in MO during deer season.

The shooting was beyond mere criminally stupid, and rises to felony stupid.

I will weigh in with all the others.

NOT an accident.

For crying out loud. 100%, not 50%, not 90%, not 99.99%, but 100% of the fault lies with the shooter! Not only is he supposed to identify it as a bear, but a BLACK bear, and not one less than one year old and not a sow with cubs. This idiot shot at movement!
Those attempting to place any blame on the victim are really beyond the pale and I pray to God they never go in the woods armed again. They might see something moving.
A hunting 'accident' is when a hunter slips on ice or a meteor hits a guy in a tree stand. Someone out hunting that murders someone is not a hunting 'accident'. It's criminal stupidity beyond defense.

THANK YOU!


For being largely a "hunters" forum I am continually surprised by the amount of basic tenants of sportsmanship, safety, and common sense that evades many posters... imo, there is an abundance of ignorance of ethics and game/predators, are too often laid bare here.

Thought and prayers to the victim's family and loved ones.

There it is.

There is no "mentality" of brush shots in Oregon. The very idea is absurd, and unfounded.

There is unfortunately (just like all 50 States & Canada) careless people who make stupid decisions.

Oregon passed a mandatory hunter orange mandate for hunters under the age of 18 this season. There was pressure to make it mandatory for all hunters, but the fact that Oregon has had a decent safety record made many feel it was unnecessary.

Regardless the blame is solely on the shooter, no doubt about it.

Sheer incompetence, stupidity and lack of responsibility! This has nothing to do with being an accident. Crap like that will cost us all hunting opportunities.

There's no mentality in any of the many old reports that went essentially like this �

"I didn't see anything, but I got a few sound shots."

I've heard this report from "hunters" myself.

"Someone out hunting that murders someone is not a hunting 'accident'. It's criminal stupidity beyond defense. "

.....and there ain't a GODDAM thing "Funny" about it.

GTC

I am not trying to put the blame on the victum, just saying how dangerous it is here during hunting season, and I would never go into the woods during certin seasons. I quit hunting spring gobbler season because the last two hunts I called in other hunters that thought I was a turkey, they were so stupid they came to my HEN call. and a friend was peppered with bird shot while leaving the woods at the end of the hunting hours which were 12:00 noon.

Question for those who blame the victim - was he walking on all fours, or do Oregon bears always walk on their hind legs?

Yes--and popping his teeth.

Sorry, hate to be flip with this but I just can't imagine blaming the victim. If he had it to do over, would he wear orange? Sure. Still doesn't make it his fault.

It's aganst the law to shoot a sow with cubs, and there were two in his party, right?

In pa ALL hunters have to wear blaze orange on their head and body or they will be fined. so why does someone not hunting be allowed to wander around in the woods wearing black or brown or any other color they want..

If they're not hunting, they're not in the Fish & Game dept's jurisdiction. So why don't pedestrians be required to wear safety clothing like highway construction crews? You can only take the nanny state so far.

Would the proposal, "Because they have the RIGHT to do so, without being fired on by Cretins", work ?

I'd guess not.

GTC

Just because people have the right to do something it is not always wise to do it. you have the right to jump off a cliff so why don't you do it?

No you don't. Suicide is illegal.

We don't know the details, but the hunter needs to spend a little quality time with bubba in the local jail. According to the story, the victim was "hiking through a field in Western Oregon on the way to Silver Creek Falls Park on Friday evening." Shooting through a bush at some movement, is just a case of involuntary manslaughter. Know your target.

I think it is better call it an irrational fear given the few number of people, hunters and non-hunters, that are injured or killed in the woods via gunshot every year. Every weekend around here it seems some hiker is hit by an out of control mountain biker. Now I'll admit I don't think anyone has been killed but still there have been broken bones and a couple concussions.

This in no way excuses this "hunter" from killing this young man. A charge of manslaughter would well serve as a warning to others even if he is found innocent.

I had a hunter scope my wife, son and I this weekend. My wife noticed him and the three of us looked at him with our binos. While watching him, he noticed us and put his rifle to his shoulder to look at us. We all had bright colors on (my wife in a bright mauve jacket). I'm still pissed thinking about it.

That's right, and helmets too.

I was hunting in the GW National Forest about 25 years ago sitting on a rock outcropping overlooking a stream valley. I was wearing a blaze orange coat. Several hunters passed by and one of them lifted his rifle and looked at me through his scope. I just put up my hands and backed off behind some rocks. Never forgot it.

He is a human and made a stupid mistake. Have you never made a mistake, maybe while driving?

Not like that, dumb sonofabitch shot without verifying what his intended target was, I harp on that with my 14 year old daughter. YOU NEVER PULL THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE SURE OF YOUR TARGET! He needs to go to the Pokey!

Plenty of mistakes, probably daily, but never caused the death or injury to anyone due to any of them, ever. If I did, I would expect to be punished quite severely. There are just a few very simple rules in handling a firearm, due to the damage that can be caused by careless handling of them. He broke multiples of them to personally cause the death of this fellow. This goes far beyond some mistake..

This isn't equivalent to a driving mistake. It's more like trying to outrun a train at a crossing except someone else got killed instead of the driver. It's not a simple mistake. It's gross negligence.

So when you or one of your kids make this mistake, you expect it to be chalked up up to a whoops like in driving, the only thing in driving I can compare this too is DWI, it is a choice you made, now you pay the penalty.

+1

Dude shot into the bushes.

Nail him.

I feel bad for him, but I feel a helluva lot worse for the victim and his family.

The shooter is an idiot,end of story. Pulling the trigger on some thing you have not positively identified is a criminal act in my opinion.His carelessness took a mans life and he should be punished accordingly.
The victim has as much right to be in the woods as we do as hunters. It is all of our responsibility to know what the hell we are shooting at.

I do agree jail time is in order. My disagreement was actually with previous posts sounding much harsher. I also think the victims family should gain financially.

There's no good comes from a thing like this.

When I go to the woods, hunting or not, I think about it from the shoot-ee's perspective: how can I reduce the chances of being shot? It may not be my responsibility but it sure hurts (I've caught a couple ricochets that were "safe") ... it's like having the crosswalk say "go" but you see a car running the light: you can be dead right and still be dead.

So, how do I say this? The victim is not responsible ... but maybe could have contributed something towards avoiding the situation? Don't know one way or the other.

The shooter is 100% responsible. Got no sympathy, no mercy. But I'm not going to stoop to calling 'em names, that doesn't fix anything. My righteous indignation doesn't contribute anything.

What it DOES is make me wonder about the wisdom of hunter orange. The way we preach it in hunter's ed (yep, I'm an instructor) I've always had this [bleep] doubt that maybe we were conditioning kids to think that if it wasn't orange, it wasn't a person. Maybe the answer is to outlaw orange, not promote it, so that nobody thinks there is anything safe to shoot at without a real clear review w/ binocs and watching it for a while. That way no bird watcher or hiker who doesn't have the foggiest idea there's a hunt on is at any greater risk than the hunter who might otherwise be wearing orange.

For the future of our sport, we're a lot better off accidentally or negligently shooting other hunters than we are accidentally or negligently shooting members of the non-hunting public. They outnumber us and outvote us.

I dunno. Thinking out loud. Probably get flamed for it. Wouldn't be the first time.

Tom

and you didnt hike up to him and have a discussion about muzzle control?

That sounds like taking a debater to a gun fight. The guy already pointed a gun at the poster.

i cannot condone this level of stupidity.

what the man did was wrong plain and simple. i feel jail time is in order for him, and it needs to be seen that hunters dont appreciate being made out to be idiots by the actions of one person.

i can just hear it now, hunter kills hiker in act of gross negligence. we should ban hunting, and guns, and this is why...

its just more fuel for the libtard fire guys.

Marty,
Here is a thread about the shooting on SummitPost, a mountaineering website I frequent. Though the title is inflammatory, and there are a few ignorant comments, I was pleased to see the level of support for hunters and hunting, considering how liberal most hikers,climbers, etc., seem to be:

http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/oregon-hunter-murders-hiker-pretending-to-be-bear-t60194.html

thanks Tim.

Jumping off a cliff is not suicide unless you say it is an attempt at suicide.