Fox is reporting they were shot, but I am wondering if it could have been cookoffs.

John

WTF is wrong with these people?
________


(CBS/AP) WEBSTER, N.Y. - Two firefighters are dead and two more injured after being shot while battling a blaze in upstate New York on Monday morning, reports CBS affiliate WROC.


Officials in the town of Webster tell local media outlets that someone shot at firefighters around 6 a.m. Monday when they arrived at the scene of the blaze near the Lake Ontario shore just east of Rochester.


Police have surrounded the neighborhood and are searching for the shooter.


Officials say the firefighters were at the scene of a fire that started in one home has spread to two others and a car.


WROC reports that fire officials are currently letting the houses burn because the scene is not secure, and the station's photographer says that one house has collapsed from the fire.



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ead-while-battling-blaze-in-upstate-n.y/

it wasn't cookoffs.

Sad sign of the times.

Gunner

I didn't catch that there were fatalities. No, not cookoffs.

I've said many times, but the more this country turns its back on God, the more he will remove his hand of protection from us and the more of these evil acts we are going to see.

John

a cook off chambered in a gun would have to be REALLY unlucky to kill or even hit someone. It can happen though.

Bunker gear ain't any protection to speak of.

Really makes you wonder about people. Especially the liberal bastards out there. That dont' want to enforce the laws we have to the max. Want to slap folks an the wrist and blame someone else for everything.

If there was application of existing laws and punishment to match, you would not see nearly as much stupid stuff going on.

And yes, we've gotten way to far away from God as a whole, especially since founded on that notion.... you don't like God you don't have any business here IMHO.

WTF my sister lives a half mile from where this is taking place

Get 'em Dan.

This world is just out of control with mindless savages
Some poor families are gonna have a hell of a christmas

Senseless isn't it.

Most killings and murders are!!!

a link to what you are talking about would help?

No Dan, historically, most people that are "murdered" ask for it. These of late, with the most innocent of victims, are unfathomable.

http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/1788917?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cs

Latest from FOX.

Four volunteer firefighters shot - two dead - and a police officer injured.

The shooter is dead from bullet wounds at the scene.

That is a classic ambush.

that what they just said,,,,gunman dead in shoot out.....

. Prayers for all the victums. Magnum Man

Particulary bad timing in NYS, with The downstate gun banners on the rampage.

I'm at loss for words.

Shooting volunteer firefighters on Christmas Eve?

WTF.

Firefighters have long been targets, why they travel unarmed is beyond me.

So does my SIL. Our society is spinning out of control.

There is evil in this world. Always has been.

I hope the person responsible for this shooting smokes a big chit cigar in hell for what they did before the devil has his way with them.

really?

Why would they be targeted?


What are the odds the shooter started the fire.... and knows some of the firemen.
Some loony leftist's demented way of protesting bear baiting or something.

Ambush/suicide by cop?

When we have a fire or an auto accident or someone injured the first responder is a LEO. They ck out the scene and then in rolls more LEO's and then ambulances and fire trucks.

Unfortunately, not new.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCMR...AI98k_xHZSEC2u&feature=results_video

Happened in the 60s too

Not new, but pretty uncommon. Another nut job to get some headlines.

Most CalFire field Battalion Chiefs are sworn officers with all the equipment.
Been that way for years.

Nice to have that at your incident when SO or CHP could be an hour away.

One of the fire fighters killed was also a police officer

We are.
We have been before.
And I am.

Been with Fire/Rescue for 22 years and though the fact that I carry has little to do with being targeted on the job, being prepared on the job isn't ever a bad idea. Twice in those years I've been on the wrong side of a gun and fortunately never had a shot fired in either direction. It's a dangerous profession & 99.9% of the things that will kill you on a scene have nothing to do with a gun. The fact that you may or may not return from a call is understood & accepted when you sign on but it's a shame that this ended the way that it did. Obviously NOT the danger that these guys signed on for. Prayers for our brothers and their families. A terrible tragedy only compounded by the timing.

Nothing on the news surprises me anymore. Too much evil out there . They burned 2 churches to the ground within 30 miles of my home yesterday. Both fires intentionally set.

Prayers for the fallen brothers and their families.

be very interesting to know the shooters motive,

Prayers for those involved particularly the families .

norm

So anyone doubt that Obama will get his gun laws passed? With all the shootings lately some of the people I knopw are about to change their stand on guns too. Unfortunately, it is NOT the gun. We need people with sick minds control.
I live close to the scene too, so sad.

Kindergarten and then volunteers on Christmas. It really does boggle the mind, doesnt it?

Prayers for those families, the other firemen/officers involved, along with the community. Sad sad day.


In Feb I will have 26yrs on as a professional ff. Our wise city leaders have put a policy in effect for imediate termination for any city employee, other than a police officer, who has a firearm in their possesion or in their vehicle on city property.
Police are only allowed the weapons that have been issued by the city.

Yes, I most SERIOUSLY doubt that.

Prayers, condolences, and all infinitely sad respect for all of you folks there, too.

God Bless and keep you all.

GTC

My condolences and prayers to the families.

Murderer was an ex convict who served 18 yrs for killing his grandmother with a hammer

Guess gun laws didn't keep a convicted murderer from getting a gun

From audio of the scene it sounds like he took out the first in engine company and it crashed. A volunteer arriving in his POV was shot in the leg and back but was calling in all the info to dispatch. Its an awful thing to hear.

Citizens of New York (and the U.S. in general) should be throwing a fit that this [bleep] was allowed to walk to the streets to kill again!

Absolutley, His azz should have been fried 18 years ago! Why the he11 did we have to pay to keep him alive for 18 years in the first place.

I'm of the opinion if ya commit murder ya get one end of a welder lead connected to your pee pee and the other end to your tounge throw the switch and let'em cook!

What is a cook off? Bullets that ignite during a fire? I thought that was a proven falsehood?

The real problem here is not gun laws, as he broke a myriad of laws as a convicted felon just touching one. Also, killing someone is a crime as far as I know. I guess someone should ask why we allow a brutal killer to walk (or even walk) the streets again. This is the real problem in America.

Should have capital punishment, no exceptions and no death row.
Kill someone, you are dead within 72 hours.
Would save a lot of tax dollars.

JD338

Cruel and Unusual Punishment in New York State,guess way too many minorities ANA Negroes,would have to sit on Sparky,but that's liberals for ya!!

They can cook off, but since they are not confined they have very limited power
and range. If you are right next to them you could get a piece of brass causing an injury.

Very sad,not to far from me,another illegal gun in the hands of a felon,Alot more to come of this story..

Yeah, his sister is "missing" apparently... this guy is a pos all around.

Throw some in you're burning barrel once and see what happens.

You guys are a little off base. This freak did 17 years for killing his 92 year old grandmother by beating her with a hammer. He was convicted not of murder, but manslaughter. That show one big gap in the justice system, the plea deal.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ambushed-firemen-shot-ny/2012/12/24/id/468940

I'm amazed that this sort of crap isn't happening more. Just think of the pressures that the ordinary citizen is under today. Mostly guvment rules/regulations. Some folks are pretty close to flipping out anyway. They are on the edge. One more bit of pressure/crap and they slip off.
I'm sure some of you folks know people like that. The right push at the right time and they flip. Unfortunately they usually kill the wrong people.
I don't have a solution, except less guvment rules/regulations.
Condolences to the dead's relatives.

My condolences to all the family members of the targeted first responders. This most certainly was a senseless tragedy ....what a ambush.

Has it been disclosed what kind of firearm(s) were used?? I'm wondering how it was found out that the firearm(s) used were illegal?? Unless the firearm(s) S/N's have been ran and found out that they were stolen perhaps it's not a good idea to villian-ize the firearm(s)!???

Now the seriously mentally ill shooter, being a felon, was definitely breaking the law having a firearm in his possession.

Prayers for the smoke eaters and their families.

I could see certain situations where a plea deal might be a good option but, as a whole, I agree. It's used way to often to help scumbags side-step consequences.....

{qoute}Has it disclosed what kind of firearm(s) were used?? I'm wondering how it was found out that the firearm(s) used were illegal?? Unless the firearm(s) S/N's have been ran and found out that they were stolen perhaps it's not a good idea to villian-ize the firearm(s)!???

my point was he was a felon,and Not to have a gun,not trying to villianize the weapon just the villian

Man who killed 2 firemen left note on killing plan
Email this Story

Dec 25, 1:20 PM (ET)

By GEORGE M. WALSH

(AP) This 2006 image provided by the Monroe County Sheriff's Department shows William H. Spengler Jr.,...
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WEBSTER, N.Y. (AP) - The ex-con who lured firefighters to their deaths in a blaze of gunfire left a rambling typewritten note saying he wanted to burn down the neighborhood and "do what I like doing best, killing people," police said Tuesday.

Police Chief Gerald Pickering said 62-year-old William Spengler, who served 17 years in prison for the 1980 hammer slaying of his grandmother, armed himself with a revolver, a shotgun and a military-style rifle before he set his house afire to lure first responders into a death trap before dawn on Christmas Eve.

Two firefighters were shot dead and two others are hospitalized in stable condition. Spengler killed himself as seven houses burned around him Monday on a narrow spit of land along Lake Ontario.

One of the guns recovered was a military-style .223-caliber semiautomatic Bushmaster rifle with flash suppression, the same make and caliber weapon used in the elementary school massacre in Newtown, Conn., Pickering said.

The chief said police believe the firefighters were hit with shots from the rifle given the distance but the investigation was incomplete.

The two- to three-page typewritten note left by Spengler didn't give a motive for the shootings, Pickering said. He declined to divulge the note's full content or say where it was found, but read one line from it: "I still have to get ready to see how much of the neighborhood I can burn down, and do what I like doing best, killing people."

Pickering said authorities were still looking for Spengler's 67-year-old sister, Cheryl Spengler, who lived in the house with him. Their mother, Arline, also lived there until she died in October.

About 100 people attended an impromptu memorial vigil Monday evening in Webster, a suburb of Rochester. Dozens of bouquets were left at the fire station, along with a handwritten sign that said, "Thanks for protecting us. RIP."

Spengler fired at the four firefighters when they arrived shortly after 5:30 a.m. Monday to put out the fire, Pickering said. The first police officer who arrived chased the gunman and exchanged shots.

(AP) Homes burn on Lake Road, Monday, Dec. 24, 2012 in Webster, New York. A former convict set a house...
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Authorities said Spengler hadn't done anything to bring himself to their attention since his parole. As a convicted felon, he wasn't allowed to possess weapons. Monroe County District Attorney Sandra Doorley said Spengler led a very quiet life after he got out of prison.

A friend said Spengler hated his sister. Roger Vercruysse lived next door to Spengler and recalled a man who doted on his mother, whose obituary suggested contributions to the West Webster Fire Department.

"He loved his mama to death," said Vercruysse, who last saw his friend about six months ago.

Vercruysse also said Spengler "couldn't stand his sister" and "stayed on one side of the house and she stayed on the other."

The West Webster Fire District learned of the fire after a report of a car and house on fire on Lake Road, on a narrow peninsula where Irondequoit Bay meets Lake Ontario, Monroe County Sheriff Patrick O'Flynn said.

(AP) A Monroe County Sheriff's Department armored truck drops off residents who were evacuated from the...
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Emergency radio communications capture someone saying he "could see the muzzle flash coming at me" as Spengler carried out his ambush. The audio posted on the website RadioReference.com has someone reporting "firefighters are down" and saying "got to be rifle or shotgun - high powered ... semi or fully auto."

Two of the firefighters arrived on a fire engine and two in their own vehicles, Pickering said. After Spengler fired, one of the wounded men fled, but the other three couldn't because of flying gunfire.

The police officer who exchanged gunfire with Spengler "in all likelihood saved many lives," Pickering said.

A police armored vehicle was used to recover two men, and eventually it removed 33 people from nearby homes, the police chief said. The gunfire initially kept firefighters from battling the blazes.

The dead men were identified as police Lt. Michael Chiapperini, 43, the Webster Police Department's public information officer; and 19-year-old Tomasz Kaczowka, also a 911 dispatcher.

(AP) Lake Rd. residents are evacuated from the neighborhood, Monday, Dec. 24, 2012 in Webster, New York....
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Pickering described Chiapperini as a "lifetime firefighter" with nearly 20 years in the department, and he called Kaczowka a "tremendous young man."

Kaczowka's brother, reached at the family home Monday night, said he didn't want to talk.

The two wounded firefighters, Joseph Hofstetter and Theodore Scardino, were in stable condition Tuesday at Strong Memorial Hospital, the chief said. Both were awake and alert and are expected to recover.

Hofstetter, also a full-timer with the Rochester Fire Department, was hit once in the pelvis, and the bullet lodged in his spine, authorities said. Scardino was hit in the chest and knee.

Cathy Bartlett was at a vigil Monday night with her teenage son, who was good friends with Kaczowka. Bartlett's husband, Mark Bartlett, has been a firefighter there for 25 years but missed the call this morning.

"Thank God my husband slept through the first alarm and didn't get up until the second one went off," she said.

The shooting and fires were in a neighborhood of seasonal and year-round homes set close together across the road from the lakeshore. The area is popular with recreational boaters but is normally quiet this time of year.

"We have very few calls for service in that location," Pickering said. "Webster is a tremendous community. We are a safe community, and to have a tragedy befall us like this is just horrendous."

Gov. Andrew Cuomo said the State Police and Office of Emergency Management were working with local authorities.

"Volunteer firefighters and police officers were injured and two were taken from us as they once again answered the call of duty," Cuomo said in a statement. "We as the community of New York mourn their loss as now two more families must spend the holidays without their loved ones."

Webster, a middle-class suburb, now is the scene of violence linked to house fires for two Decembers in a row.

Last Dec. 7, authorities say, a 15-year-old boy doused his home with gasoline and set it ablaze, killing his father and two brothers, 16 and 12. His mother and 13-year-old sister escaped with injuries. He is being prosecuted as an adult.

Prayers for the fallen innocent. Tragedy...