that will make criminals of folks who casually give guns from their collections to their sons/daughters, but what's going to happen to the now common practice of lending your guns to friends? Lending isn't technically a transfer.

If they get registration...

I'm selling all of my guns, in private transactions, without bills of sale. Not worth the hassle, right?

In regards to lending; I'm sure it'll come up, criminally speaking.

I won't be registering any guns.

No guns left to register, period. Won't go through that hassle. Got a buddy from NYC and that whole tap dance ain't worth it.

Non compliance!

I have a schit load of guns. They can kiss my ass.

What's weird is how convinced the non-gun public is that guns ARE registered. The press is the cause. Read an article just yesterday that said several times that the guns used in the recent school shooting were "registered" to the shooter's mom.

What can they do if 80 million gun owners refuse to register?

It amazes me each time I hear it. We've been getting a run of folks looking for a "how to" on purchasing guns at work lately.

Easy, go down to (name off several local "fun" stores), pick out what you like, fill out a form, wait 10 minutes (longer lately) and pay the man.

"Really? What about the registration paperwork for you folks?"

Do I look like I want to do any extra paperwork? I'll tell you what, though, take this and fill it out. We'll see you in a week so you can have a CC permit to go with your shiny new handgun. Hopefully we can do away with that nonsense as well....

George

what is a gun?

That thing you lost in that boating accident.

Aren't they registered already. Doesn't the dealer put the serial# and model BATF form we have to fill out when we buy a gun?

John

A consequence of the draconian gun control bill that's fixin' to be rammed down our throats will be increased theft of firearms, as their value will explode on the black market. That means that if your guns are stolen, our new gun control law will assure that we won't be able to replace 'em. We might be able to buy a very expensive revolver to replace a stolen Glock or maybe a bolt action or single shot rifle to replace a Springfield Armory M14. But then again, if all future purchases of handguns were to be illegal, we wont be able to replace stolen pistols.

We don't have "registration", yet somehow they 'trace' the gun back to the original point of purchase. Hmmm...that kind of sounds a bit like registration. Yes, the chain can be broken and some 'traces' are dead ends, but they do end up successfully 'tracing' guns despite the fact we have no registration.

this is where I stand. Free will, Liberty, and God-given rights.

levrluvr,

The gun grabbers have got that figured out, too. To defend yourself from a federal firearms violation, it will cost a small fortune. A good criminal defense attorney will go at about 5 bills an hour. Then they tack on a trial fee if it goes to trial, which it will. In the process, you'll probably lose your job, which means you'll probably lose everything else you own. If you're convicted, and unless jury nullification becomes law (Feds will make legal defenses virtually nonexistent for alleged violations.) you will be, you'll be a convicted felon, which means you can't own any guns.

This legal intimidation will force nearly all gun owners to comply. No one wants to end up destitute, a convicted felon, and without right to own any firearm.

We need drastic hope & change: we gotta hope that we can change back to the country our Founding Fathers created for us.

Gentlemen, the way I see it is that this issue will come down to a situation of who will blink first. It's likely that at some point, either now or at some point in the future, that legislation will be passed that will require registration of all guns. If the gun owners stand their ground and refuse to comply the feds will blink and we will win. If gun owners blink and comply, our freedom is lost.

Mine fell out of a capsized canoe recently. All gone. It's a blessing no one drown. It was hard on me, but I've decided to just move on without.

I sold all my semi-automatic firearms during the past feeding frenzy in face-to-face cash-only sales. All I have a left is a couple of bolt action rifles and some old single action revolvers.

Here in NY,we have some pretty tight laws when applying for a ccw,back when I got mine it took 2 mos.now I here it could be 6,not sure what Cuomo and the Dems have in mind.A perfect example of how well gun control works is the recent shooting of the 4 fireman in Webster,a lady bought the guns used 2 yrs ago,and the SOB stole them from her(so the lawers are saying)serial # were traced back to Gander Mt

Well? Didn't they trace the guns back to the kids mom? Sounds like registration to me. I always figured my guns are already registered, just not taxed yet.

Raisuli, as usual, you don't get it. I'm sure there will be others, and none of us would get any press coverage other than another of those 'Tea Party Terrorists' were killed by a swat team in an exchange of gunfire.
Live free, or die tryin. I'm too old to worry about the job, property loss, or felony charges. They can come and get them, but they won't be gently handed over.

Which brings up an excellent point. I wonder how much tax the new control law will attach to future gun purchases. Taxes will have the effect of denying the Second Amendment. If the law places a $500 tax on the purchase of rifles & shotguns and a grand on handguns, it will prevent firearms ownership for many.

levrluvr,

You might be too old to care, but most everyone else isn't. To ask a man to risk destroying his family to make a point he ain't gunna make might be a little over the top. And to give you some much needed advice, growing older & possibly dying in fed prison ain't a bright idea. But you go the route that's right for you. After all, you're your own man & obviously what I know to be true ain't true for you.

Sure. They'll wage a PR campaign about the cost of "gun violence" in America, which is nothing more than criminal violence renamed to serve the agenda of disarmament, then they'll pass taxes when they feel they can. Or they'll just do it not even caring if there's support or not. Face it, they're going to make criminals out of most of us.

When you buy a gun in most states (or semi free states) the FFL records who bought it an the S/N and keeps the record in his/her book.

When the police need to trace a gun they go to the maker and get the record of where it was shipped and work back thru the distributor and to the FFL. Then "with cause" they can get the buyers info. Notice how many recent shootings that have received a lot of publicity about where the guns came from where all recently purchased. I'm guessing your pre'64 winchester would be a bit harder to trace even if you bought it new.

If it was sold face to face they can't go any further if you don't keep records of who you sold it to.

When your FFL calls in for a NICS check they are "supposed" to destroy the information within 24 hours. However, when Ashcroft took office he found they were keeping them the entire Clinto administration and ordered them destroyed. What is happening now under Obama is anyones guess.

Now if your state requires you to register your gun, you are on your own.

I don't want your advice, in fact you and those like you are the last on the planet I'd take any from. GFY.

I am cynical enough to believe the govt does whatever it chooses with zero regard for the law. If by slim chance they find the law offensive or obstructive to their agenda, they overlook it or change it to suit them.

Preach on! I just don't see it happening in most of "red-land". Even if the feds attempt to start rounding them up, it'll be McMinn County TN 1946 writ large. You won't be able to find a mofo who will admit to being a federal PIG. They'll get scarce as hens teeth right quick.

just don't comply. Trying to round up every firearm in America will cost more than Obama Care

levrluvr,

You might be too old to care, but most everyone else isn't. To ask a man to risk destroying his family to make a point he ain't gunna make might be a little over the top. And to give you some much needed advice, growing older & possibly dying in fed prison ain't a bright idea. But you go the route that's right for you. After all, you're your own man & obviously what I know to be true ain't true for you. [/quote]
Sometimes you have to do what you think is right, regardless of the consequences. If I am going to surrender my freedoms to a misguided govornment, let all else be lost with it. I had a relative, Asa Eggleston, who enlisted with the Minute Men in 1779 at age 16. He served for the duration of the War, and lived to father 13 children. He was willing to give all, for nothing more than a notion of Freedom. If someone wants to steal that Freedom that so many fine men and women have died to protect, it is really my duty as a citizen to stand against such tyranny. I won't be a sheep Ravioli, I will not comply.

Congress wants to create a black market on guns. There's money to be made with a black market and they know it. Follow the money trail.

As for me, I'm to old to care let them send a federal assassination team for me. They would be doing me a favor.

Schit they're pants.

I don't think he plans on being being arrested.

Yeah, I know; neither did Bernie Madoff...

If they get registration it will be this way....

Simply to pass or EO mandatory federal forms with EVERY gun transfer, billed as a common sense way to stop lunatics and criminals from getting guns, even from private sales.

Then all they have to do is sit back and wait. How many of us would risk losing everything in a gun purchase or sale, epecially to stranger?

Most of US here on the campfire probably already have most of the guns we want, so our stuff wont cross the Federal radar for awhile, unless we bought them from a FFL holder. But eventually they will be sold or transferred, by someone, if only after we die. And most all these transfers will be in compliance with the law.

Also, growing up in England and then New York State and now a longterm resident of Texas I have observed how whatever lawsare in effect become the societal norms.

If the "gunshow loophole" is closed, ie banning private sales without a yellow form and background check, twenty years from now those laws will be the accepted norm everywhere, ie you'd be considered a loony to try and sell a gun to someone without a background check.

So, if you dont comply, your kids' generation will, and find the practice normal.

Birdwatcher

If NICS was compelled to reply to EVERY gun transaction in the U.S., it would crash, and they know it.

And most private transactions are INTRASTATE, which brings up the whole issue of "federalism" if the feds try to regulate them.

Just another excuse for a bigger and more well funded ATF

Exactly correct. The proverbial boiled frog.

Or the feds can tax the ones you already own & force you to list them on your 1040.

When everyone is a criminal, the state may begin exercising arbitrary power, i.e., tyranny.

You are such a [bleep] lib, just another puzzie poser.

Like I said, [bleep] them. My financial house is in order, I have already told my wife my stance on this issue and she knows what it will mean if it they try and take my guns. She is a real woman, unlike you, and she looked me right in the eyes and said, "I know, you didn't even have to tell me, I know."

GFY Lib

That happened many, many years ago when we began to have to prove we weren't criminals prior to buying guns.

That's not registration. The BATF paperwork only tracks the gun with the owner till the owner sells it or gives it away, which could happen as soon as you walk out the door if you like.

At this point they don't have the ballz!, maybe some day but sure as he11 not now.

Surely merely a question of adding computing space, and if denials/whatever required a human in the process at some point, Obama wouldn't care if that process stretched out for months.



Most private transactions are that way in part because interstate private sale/transfers are illegal. Law-abiding folks usually obey laws.

But in this case, since the Feds already regulate commercial interstate AND intrastate sales involving FFL dealers via background checks etc, passing a ban on undocumented private sales would merely make private sales subject to the exact same regulations already in effect for commercial sales.

Birdwatcher

Only 4 million of those are NRA members. What percentage is that?

I would consider ways feds could find out if anyone were in possession of a weapon made illegal under the new gun control law that's fixin' to be rammed down our throats. They would not have to rely upon paperwork completed at transactions. They could monitor Internet purchase transactions that would indicate possession of certain types of weapons, they could get a hold of firing range records; hell, they could even knock on your neighbor's door. Many, many crimes are solved due to cops' abilities to work informants. And believe me, when I used to bust dopers and offer to refer them to my agency's narcotics unit to become confidential informants in exchange for leniency, they'd snitch off their mothers.

5%

If Madoff truly had no intention of being arrested, he wouldn't have been. That's why they don't let slaves have firearms.

True, but this isn't about registration. It's about disarming the American people. Registration is merely a required step on the path. Confiscation follows registration, then come the concentration camps.

I know folks with lots of guns who've never had to prove anything to anyone.

Firing range records?? Where the hell do you live??

Sniper rifles and original assault pistols I see.....

Let's assume the feds get a line on a loud mouth owner of a weapon that's declared illegal under the new gun control law that's fixin' to be rammed down our throats. Let's call this big talking loud mouth heavywalker just to make it easier to illustrate how the feds operate. They work him for a while until they have info for a search warrant. They get paper and serve it on him a 3:00 am while he's in between bouts of sleep apnea. After the flash bang and dynamic entry, he recovers marginal lucidity sufficient to realize he's in handcuffs.

At a satellite AFT office, an agent offers him a deal. Plead guilty to a felony and do two years' fed time in exchange for the names of 10 people he knows who owns firearms made illegal under the new gun control law that's fixin' to be rammed down our throats. Realizing the predicament he's in, heavywalker becomes heavysinger. He's willing to snitch off so many of is buddies that the feds can't get the microphone away from his mouth.

When guys who think they're tough are looking at the awesome power of the federal government, they ain't so damned tough. heavywalker will sing like BaBa Streisand to avoid at least 10 years fed time, a fine he can't pay, and the liquidation of every asset he owns. He won't have to worry about owning guns. They will be gone. The feds will only cut him a deal if he pleads to a felony, and he will.

There are maybe a very small fraction of a single percent of really hard core criminals who'll never snitch. And heavywalker ain't one of 'em.

Think this through before you do something from which recovery is impossible.

You are mistaking me for you azzhole, you have no spine.

When they ask you who has guns, you be sure to tell them that heavywalker has some.

TRH,

You don't have to sign in and record caliber of weapon where you shoot? I think it's a shooting range insurance company compliance requirement more than anything. I do not know how long those records are kept.

You are the type that live in the USA, but would have never been in the original group of freedom fighters. In fact I wonder if you'd fight at all.

I'm with a few others here. The rights we are guaranteed are eroded. Its why I'm still here though rather than another country. And as such it is my sworn duty to uphold the constitution, which I will do. To my dying day. I will not sit in a prison. I will not give up my rights. I don't have anything else to live for if not free. Neither does my family.

They had better really think twice about this before moving forward. And I'm ashamed that many of my former USA residents are too scared to stand up to the wheels. Seems like we are in Russia already.

I have you wired, m'man.

You're a clueless [bleep] lib.

Shooting range records? insurance compliance?

pull yer head out of your ass.

+1000000000 Well said Rost, my sentiments exactly.

rost495,

I appreciate your dedication to your beliefs; however, they must be reconciled with 21st century technology. You won't be fighting red coats armed with muskets. You will be fighting teams of the best armed and best trained federal agents in the world. They have sophisticated tracking devices, so they'll know where you are every second of every day. They'll move against you when you least expect it.

You ain't got it figured right if you think you're going to fight the feds and win. Watch the Military Channel's episodes of Black Ops, and watch how these units, especially the SAS -which Obama will ask to borrow from the UK- destroy well armed and well trained terrorists.

This is the 21st century. You can't do well in it with an 18th century mindset.

You might want to rethink this. But maybe not...

In CA we can't buy any gun without waiting 10 days during which a background check is completed.

You already have no rights, so I can see why you would want the rest of us to join you.

If you want to keep your rights, I'd suggest your joining the Liberty Movement. But maybe you might think it a better idea sending your money to the NRA so it can keep fighting Second Amendment battles. Support the Liberty Movement & we'll have no more Second Amendment battles. The choice is yours. You're your own man. You do what you think is right for you.

Yo, [bleep] you, and [bleep] "California law".

Do us all a favor, go wash yer' mouth out with a revolver.

GTC

I won't register. [bleep] them. Registration is the first step. Once they know where they are, the next step is confiscation. If they don't know about them, they can't confiscate them. Germany did it to Austria. Once disarmed, they started rounding up dissenters and Jews. I'm already a dissenter. I won't go down without firing a shot. My ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Civil War, WWI, WWII and Korea. I never served. This next one may be mine.

rost495,

I appreciate your dedication to your beliefs; however, they must be reconciled with 21st century technology. You won't be fighting red coats armed with muskets. You will be fighting teams of the best armed and best trained federal agents in the world. They have sophisticated tracking devices, so they'll know where you are every second of every day. They'll move against you when you least expect it.

You ain't got it figured right if you think you're going to fight the feds and win. Watch the Military Channel's episodes of Black Ops, and watch how these units, especially the SAS -which Obama will ask to borrow from the UK- destroy well armed and well trained terrorists.

This is the 21st century. You can't do well in it with an 18th century mindset.

You might want to rethink this. But maybe not...



I don't think Rost has some illusion he could win the fight just that he would go out a Free Man on his hind feet.

Well, look what the alley cat dropped off. cesspoolpoops, the septic sauced chithouse rat. How'd that Romney thing work out for you? You did give that gun-grabbing neocon loser a lot of your money, didn't you?

Now go bathe. I caught a whiff of your septic sauce covered face on a southwest zephyr. That stench did more destruction than Steve_Alinsky did in New Orleans post Katrina. Hell, last I heard FEMA was en route to Blythe because of all the cattle and crops your septic sauce stench caused.

You're certainly NOT the "Lone Ranger" , Mister.

As much as the dis-INFORMERS / QUISLINGS are going to hate to admit it,....there are MANY, in an enormous cadre that grows stronger DAILY, that feel the same way.

GTC

[/quote]

In CA we can't buy any gun without waiting 10 days during which a background check is completed. [/quote]

Thats why there are no school shootings in CA, and no firearms related murders there either.

I do support the liberty movement, and I send money to the NRA. What I don't support is a lib like you running your mouth on matters beyond your comprehension, with ideas clouded by a commie state.

You're coming over to Sierra Vista for the big rondy here in a coupla weeks,....Right ?

many would look forward to hearing you speak.

GTC

The "Orthopedic Nightmare",.....higher than a [bleep]' KITE on Oxy and booze, speaks.

Nightmare is sneaking up on the right syntax.

GTC

Yo, Greg, how'd that reading go sir. Well received or not?

I don't think Rost has some illusion he could win the fight just that he would go out a Free Man on his hind feet.

[/quote]

My point is that there might be a better way to go instead of dying a free man. Check in to the Liberty Movement. But for brain dead voters who were susceptible to MSM propaganda, Paul had an authentic shot until posters like Steve_Alinsky & PISJR made sure that many posters here turned on him. Paul was the only authentic patriot in the '12 election. If we can help the Liberty Movement, and it is catching on, we will be able to elect authentic patriots like Paul.

A fighting revolution will not work. A ballot revolution will. Let's concentrate on doing this the right way. And dying ain't the right way.

But you can sell that CA legally acquired firearm out of state if you comply with that state's laws. Gun shows, PP, etc.

80 million gun owners and 300,000,000 firearms? The Fed doesn't have the resources. 80 million search warrants? Pul-eeze! Ever buy a gun and move to a different address? How will they find you? You weren't crazy enough to put your SSN on the 4473, were you?

cesspoolpoops,

Maybe I will. Where is Sierra Vista? And when is it?

Read it from the pulpit of a little local church, on New Years's Eve, well, and without stuttering or stumbling.

A State Senator, a coupla' Pastors of other local churches, a City Councilman, and a Deacon were there, as well as some VERY solid regular everyday folks.

I called out your authorship, using your (now more appropriate than ever) "Handle".

It was VERY well recieved.

I AGAIN thank you, for cutting through a lot of the BS !

GTC

You are a smart guy and a gifted writer.So..... please take a look at the Federal Register, and pick out a proposed new regulation by a Federal Agency, or a recently published one.The FAA is the one I'm most familiar with, but it makes no difference in this excercise.

You will see a "federalism statement". It states the Gov't lawyers' reasoning as to WHY this regulation does NOT abridge the rules against federalism.

YOU write a federalism statement explaining how a Federal Agency can lawfully become involved in Curdog selling Birdwatcher a firearm when we both live in Texas.

thank you sir, was wondering how that went.

Thank you for spreading the message.

Plinker,

You don't have a clue how this will play out. First of all, there are only a small percent of 80 million gun owners who own weapons that will be declared illegal. If confiscation is a part of the legislation, most of that small percent will comply and turn in their illegal guns. Men will not risk destroying their families to make a point. That will leave only a fraction that will be targeted by AFT. After a dozen or so of those are arrested & lose everything they own and are sentenced to 10 years' fed time just to make a point that will no longer matter to them, the rest that own illegal guns will rethink.

Maybe 10 hours East of you,.....Third annual Campfire Reunion ,here at my place.

I'm sure MANY would be interested in seeing you nominated "Guest Speaker", and it's certainly do-able.

Great FOOD, great COMPANY, .........GREAT opportunity to drop yer' Cloak of mystery and actually MEET the folks that you continually rant at, and insult.

Invitation's extended, Mister.

GTC

OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY Gonna have some FUN!

Is this what they are saying over at DU?

rost495,

I appreciate your dedication to your beliefs; however, they must be reconciled with 21st century technology. You won't be fighting red coats armed with muskets. You will be fighting teams of the best armed and best trained federal agents in the world. They have sophisticated tracking devices, so they'll know where you are every second of every day. They'll move against you when you least expect it.

You ain't got it figured right if you think you're going to fight the feds and win. Watch the Military Channel's episodes of Black Ops, and watch how these units, especially the SAS -which Obama will ask to borrow from the UK- destroy well armed and well trained terrorists.

This is the 21st century. You can't do well in it with an 18th century mindset.

You might want to rethink this. But maybe not... [/quote]

Don't stoop to the level to discount my intelligence level or that I know what sacrafice I may be giving up.

I believe if you search backwards a bit, tis a saying, live free or die. My choice. Yours too if you so desire. A controlling government offers me nothing to live for. I have no desire in the rest of my life to learn to play golf, or tennis or some other non controlled sport. Or be told when and how to do such. That is not why I live here at all.

Of course coming out of the CA mindset I can totally and unfortunately see where you get your train of thought that something may be more important than freedom. All of our freedoms. At some point you draw the line in the sand again.

When is it?

You might want to go back and review posts to find out just who insulted whom. But I ain't expecting an apology.

Is elkhunternm bringing his bed, rifle, & lotion for a demonstration? If so, let when know when he's slated to perform. I will be missing that exhibit.

BTW If you for one second, think I'm not voting, you are nuts. We do all we can and we have. And then when it comes down to it, you do what you are required to by the founding fathers of this fine( used to be) country.

" What I don't support is a lib like you running your mouth on matters ........... ".

RaisuilliLagooni is NOT a liberal. He is really not anything.His entire universe is peopled by HIM, and him only.

And it exists solely in cyberspace. He is an imaginary Don Quiote in search of windmills.............. but all he finds is people.

Real people who won't enter his universe.

It must be Hell to be a leader whom no one will follow.

BTW, I'll also be missing elkhunternm's, "Hunting Effectively From a Moving Vehicle" demonstration. Maybe got some senoritas down your way that can take up my time & $$$ instead?

Your turning up at an actual FTF gathering is not likely,....you've neither the Pride, Integrity, or GUTs to do so.

Probably better for all concerned, ....just leaving that right there.

We're square, you invited me for coffee at Disneyland ,

....I've invited you to a Campfire event out here in the REAL world.

GTC

If Laguni tried to 'Lead" a troop of Girl Scouts to a Saturday afternoon matinee, I've no doubt a couple would disappear, several would sicken and at least one would be sexually assaulted.

........Leading MEN ?

....gimme a break, Old Timer, gimme a break.

GTC

What if we could get our States to legalize gun ownership like some ststes did for marijuana? Or make it a crime to enforce Federal laws pertaining to registration, similar to what, I believe South Carolina, did in regards to Obamacare?

Didn't have a bed,but here is what can be done with hand lotion and a rifle.

No, sir. It is you that doesn't have a clue. For you reason like a coward who is not worthy to be in the presence of patriots.

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

Bravo !

Again no bed,just hand lotion and a rifle.

Hey...look again. I never used his name in a post that had "MEN" in it.

You did.But I'll overlook it.

BRAVO! +2

...that just gave me the warm and fuzzies.

You make a valid point,....and I apologize for that transgression, Se�or.

Greg

Curdog, wig all respect I disagree with one part of what you said. His whole universe revolves around the internet. It's like he scours the web and finds a new word and then words it into every other sentence he dribbles out.onto the screen. He can.neither make a cognitive point or hold a formidable debate because the only tactic he has is to insult. I.know I.pointed out the obvious sorry for the rant.

All I know is like Patrick Henry said, "Give me Liberty or give me death!"

As soon as our long gun registry got scrapped, I ceased to have firearms in my house other than the pistols which have to be registered. Sad realy, I really used to like owning rifles and shotguns.

I do however have some imaginary internet guns that will shoot WELL UNDER 1/2 MOA groups all day long. No one has ever seen one of those groups, and they never will, but those rifles are serious weapons systems. (as are ALL internet guns for grouping.)

If they get registration you can bet shortly after that you will get a notification from the government to turn in weapons a,b,c,d,e,f and g it will be that simple and you will comply or go to jail without collecting $200.

Did Teddy say that in justification for his ushering in his Progressive Era? Or did he say that in order to justify transitioning us from a constitutional republic to an empire that is causing our demise?

Are you advocating an armed revolution in our country? If so, do you think in would be successful?

I have studied a few revolutions. The American Revolution was successful for many reasons, primarily because it was lead by enlightened men who did not seek revenge. We might of lost 8,000 men in combat. We picked up British troops, dusted them off, & sent them home. We did not murder them. Contrast that with the French & Russian Revolutions. The French Revolution was especially bloody for its pre-Industrial Revolution era (Translation: primitive weapons). It also caused our Founding Fathers to reassess their beliefs in self-government. God only knows how many millions were murdered in the Russian Revolution. Mao's Cultural Revolution brings an unfathomable concept to mass murder.

If you're thinking a new armed revolution in our country, I will do everything in my power to prevent it. If you're successful in instigating an armed revolution in our country, how many tens of million, maybe more, of Americans, including women and children, will die?

We're living in the 21st century with technology that is unbelievable. You are not going to win a fight with an Apache helicopter. What would you do in complete isolation with no ability to communicate? You are aware that in war one of the first targets destroyed is communication. That means no cell phones. No Internet. No radio. No communication. Period.

Let's think this through. Conservatives want to revert to the constitutional republic gifted to us by our Founding Fathers. The best way to achieve this goal is at ballot boxes. If we support the Liberty Movement, we have a decent chance of voting out treasonous politicians. It's long past time for them to get real jobs.

Dying foolishly is to die a fool.

What makes you think for one minute after they get the guns there will ever be another election? Maybe we can win them over then by spitting on them.

How ya gunna do it? Write chit that makes people laugh themselves to death

If registration is mandated, hopefully a lawsuit will immediately be filed preventing its implementation long enough for Americans to realize what their politicians have done to them & vote them the hell out of office with the prayer that newly elected ones will reverse the law.

I do agree that registration is the first step towards confiscation. However, there are myriad other ways ATF knows who owns guns or can find out. Hell, they can serve a search warrant here for posters' IP addresses.

I don't know. But I do know you ain't gunna win an armed revolution against our government. About the best you could hope for is for our military to disobey orders to turn its weapons on Americans.

� Requires owners of existing �assault weapons� to register them with the federal government under the National Firearms Act (NFA). The NFA imposes a $200 tax per firearm, and requires an owner to submit photographs and fingerprints to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE), to inform the BATFE of the address where the firearm will be kept, and to obtain the BATFE�s permission to transport the firearm across state lines.

WHAT THEY DON,T TELL YOU IS YOU CAN,T LEGALLY REGISTER A PREVIOUSLY UNREGISTERED GUN
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#register-nfa


Q: May a private citizen who owns an NFA firearm which is not registered have the firearm registered?

No. The NFA permits only manufacturers, makers, and importers to register firearms. Mere possessors may not register firearms. An unregistered NFA firearm is a contraband firearm, and it is unlawful to possess the weapon. The possessor should contact the nearest ATF office to arrange for its disposition.
under the clinton assault weapon ban the semi auto guns WERE NOT classified as NFA firearms , NFA fire arms transfers require a waiting period for approval, NFA classification MANDATES back ground checks, a $200 license fee, written approval by your local law enforcement and MANDATE confiscation, if the firearm has not already been registered because no NEW privately owned firearms MAY BE REGISTERED [/b]

Education. You might want to try it. Knowledge is power.

So that 'yote ain't dead, he's merely relaxing before he lights up a cigarette. He does seem to be smiling. Did he pay you for services rendered?

Are you busy next weekend? My dog would appreciate it if you were to apply your lotion technique on him.

Not a damn thing!

80 million gun owners will NOT refuse to register. Most of those gun owners are law abiting citizens. They wll reluctantly...obey the law...that' what it means to obey the law.

The idea that gun registration will "take a bite out of crime" really shows the irrationality...or more accuratly...the brain damage curret liberal think causes.

Gun legislation has the potentional to make millions of law abiding citizens criminals with the stroke of a pen...but does nothing to effect change in criminal behavior.

Just to add to what you are expressing. So you don't register you weapons...and you have to use it in self defense. Your life as you knew it is over either way!

"Gun legislation has the potentional to make millions of law abiding citizens criminals with the stroke of a pen...but does nothing to effect change in criminal behavior."

What it does do is disarm us so we can be subjugated.
then disposed of as needed.

An armed revolution is not needed. Just take to the street, and call it a Muslim uprising. That will surely meet with liberal sympathy for our cause.

At some point in a man's life, a small part of him starts kinda LOOKING for an honorable death. You gentlemen know what I mean. Dying with my AR in my hands fighting tyranny would certainly qualify. I'm in.

.... but we are a long ways from there.

When the NRA talked about mental health, they were really conceding that gun owners may need to accept more government involvement in the transfer of firearms, and in an enhanced NICS type system that is tied to a "crazies" database.

Is that tyranny? I'd say not. Slippery slope? Maybe, maybe...

I don't doubt your conclusion. I'm only stating the fact that many firearm owners do not have a problem with registering their firearms.

That is because many people who own firearms have NO IDEA of the meaning behind the 2nd amendment...and of those who do, most will not risk the loss of their current quality of life for the fear being subjugated in the furture.

As to being subjugated in the future, I would argue that we are subjugated now...we may have not have had oppertuinity to experiance it first-hand...yet.

Don't pay your taxes. Refuse to hire a homosexual because you personally believe it is adnomaral behavior. Refuse to provide abortions (infanticide) coverage in your companie's health care. Refuse to marry homosexual couples (as on authorized by the State) for religious OR concious sake. What about property rights? Remember the SCOTS decision a few years back granting the State eminate domain over your property IF a private developer can prove that his use of the property is more beneficial to the communit than the owners.

Not picking a fight friend...and with all due respect...but where have you been?

Sorry for the ridiculous user name, but my regular handle traces right back to me. Not a good thing when it's guaranteed that any future employers will be doing web searches before hiring. If anyone speaks Mandarin, hopefully they'll get the joke.

I just wanted to add a couple things to think about:

1) This is specifically for Laguna/Raisuli. The compliance rate for the two AWB registration requirement laws (1989 and 2000) in effect in California is estimated to be all of 10%. Do you, or anyone else think that the compliance rate in the other 49 states will actually be higher?

2) Any one else here have CNC experience? How long do you think it would take to machine an AR lower out of 7075 billet? Can you say black market, no identifying marks lowers? There is a 2nd Amendment stating that the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed. There is no amendment that allows for the people to possess any drug they want. And yet how's that whole War on Drugs thing working out?

3) Given the tooling/programming to make standard AR's. It would be child's play to develop a lower that would not accept standard uppers, but would operate with a dedicated slide action upper. No semi-auto ban would apply. But apply a few minutes of Bridgeport magic, and voila, a standard upper would fit. With a nod to A. Clark and HAL, I hereby name this firearm the BS-16. I think DPMS called it the Panther Pump Action AR-15.

4) Good 3D printing is soooo just a couple years from now. Good luck getting THAT particular genie back in the lamp.


My take on the current situation: Don't buy rifles/lowers/magazines. Buy Orwell, Jefferson, Heinlein, Bradbury etc... and make sure your kids read them...


KL

My oldest is one of the most committed pro-Rights debaters you'll ever meet. All of the Rights. Like me, she can piss just about anybody off!

My youngest is brilliant, high-achieving, athletically very gifted, gorgeous.... and at 14, a pre-Statist conformist. But I've got her in the house for 4 more years, good Lord willin' and the creek don't rise.... I'll at least get her good and confused pre-launch.

Your creative "outside the box" thinking is interesting. Is the concept of "but would operate with a dedicated slide action upper." basically converting the action to a pump style action??

Interesting concept.....but the "few minutes of Bridgeport magic, and voila, a standard upper would fit" idea would instantly transform it right back into a non-"acceptable" semi-automatic configuration if I'm understanding your line of thought!!??????

If I'm not mistaken one of the things that "they" are after is the firearms design that incorporates detachable magazines/high capacity magazines. The AR platform is based around a detachable magazine design and most folks tend to have AR magazines that hold more than 10 rounds.

elkhunternm,

I'd bet one of your guns that ATF already has compiled a thick dossier of your guns including photos, descriptions, serial numbers, calibers, etc., just from the photos you've posted here. It probably already knows who you are, as it should. Dude, your combo plate has no tacos. You've redefined weird. You are one of the weirdos to whom liberals point as evidence of gun owners being whack jobs. I would not in the least be surprised to learn that you've gone postal in some New Mexican town.

You do cause me concern. You are one dude I'd just prefer to avoid. I'd prefer to let New Mexican cops deal with you.

cesspoolpoops,

I have PM'd you reference this post.

To write that your mentor, Steve_Alinsky, has taught you well is an inferior assessment of your cowardly disposition and lack of honor & character. You are a puss coward. And we know you're a liar.

I have called you a chithouse rat covered in septic sauce. And I was spot on.

elkhunternm.

Post more pics of your guns. ATF might need more info before it can move against you. That way I can bid on your guns on gunbroker.com after your trial.

I hear federal prison is easy time. Hell, 85% of 10 years will go by fast for you.

I know that there's some sorta' "sacrosanct" status that's supposed to attach to PMs,.......receiving THIS sorta

And here, for the Fire's interest and edification is what YOU might find in YOUR mailbox some cool clear morning ...... A nice message of fellowship and cheerful comeraderie, as it were

I swear, I am now so bloody concerned about my "image" that I may have to seek help of some sort. Hot on the heels of the literary jewel above , I found this endearing missive.


We have a VERY sick puppy running around snapping at our ankles here, Guys and gals. While the poor thing's OBVIOUSLY in distress, it's kinda' hard to muster much compassion in the face of vitriol,and vicious political diatrebe (for ME anyhoo, I'm just not THAT good a Christian, I guess)

Loonie,.......I'm gonna' put ALL and any further PMs from you up, just by way of keeping records straight, so to speak.

You want to talk to me, do it by the fire, azzwhole.

GTC

Nice first post, mister.

WELCOME, .....hope you'll stick around.

Greg

cesspoolpoops,

You're doing a good job. Just keep posting. I already know that honor & character ain't in your personality inventory.

This [bleep]'s really torn a page or 2 out of old Root's book,....



PMs continue



"Bounds of decorum",.....Phew !

Print Name, Sign Name, Guest Name (if any), Time In, Time Out. Nothing else.

THAT...

Lemme add a few 0s to that number as well..

If every American were like you, what's happened to our country already wouldn't have even gotten started. I salute you.

Bingo!

Good Morning, TRH,

I am almost positive that the last time I was at a range, which was the 1st time in about 10 years, I had to list caliber, which was .308 Win. While .308 Win is chambered in rifles that will surely be targeted in the new gun control legislation that's fixin' to be rammed down our throats, mine is in a Featherweight. I am a hunter & not much a target shooter. With severely screwed up shoulders, I can't withstand pain of even .308 Win recoil.

Either way, they still are written records. You might want to check with your range to see how long those records are kept. Again, it's probably mandated by ranges' insurance carriers.


Take care,

Tom

You're an almost IMPPOSSIBLY naive IDIOT, if you think that's a standard "Range" SOP, anywhere.

GTC

TRH,

That's the gist of our problem. Since Port Huron, our country has taken a pronounced and possibly irreversible left turn. Secondary & post-secondary education has become nothing more than liberal indoctrination. We've become a country that's dominated by leftists & neocons. As was discussed in another thread, we ain't the same country our parents knew.


Take care,

Tom

Learn the lesson from Canada. DO NOT REGISTER your guns. Registration is ONLY there to facilitate confiscation - period. The Liberals would have taken that next step if they had gotten power, and I'm sure they'd still try to do it with handguns (still registered) if they ever get the chance.

Let's hope that this would be a widespread response to national gun registration, should it pass.

Well said.

Oh, and don't be fooled into thinking they only was 'assault rifles'. They will go after every type of repeating firearm, once the semis are gone. Look at Australia. Pumps and levers are gone too.

Feinstein has said that she wants all guns. Period.

Haha, I don't even sign in our our local range, just verify they know they hgave my liability release current.

Beyond that, I don't shoot there much, only on benefit shoots. At the range I use, I do what I want when I want and its no ones business.

Military ranges we shot on required only type of rounds and number downrange... IE 5.56 x 88 rounds, 7.62 x 22 rounds. And a grand total of all that shot that day, not individual totals.

Arizona State Game and Fish Ranges :

Date, Name, Affiliation (e.g. Club Membership), fee paid.

THAT is IT,....nothing else.

GTC

I forgot to include the date, but my private range asks for that too.

At Magnumdood. NRA is offering Benefactor status for life members who pay $250.00 by Feb 15th. I'm thinking of doing it because now is the time NRA needs every dime to fight Obuma and his corrupt administration. The 250 is a bargin when you consider the cool grand it normally costs to be an NRA Benefactor. Are you in?

At Laguna. You have it soooo wrong man. Fed Agents want to go home to momma and the kids. Many patriots don't have that baggage pard.

Were I many posters here, I'd be extremely circumspect about advocating violating federal firearms laws. It's not a far stretch to expect the feds to investigate a conspiracy violation or aiding & abetting the commission of a felony, which would make one a principal to the alleged crime.

What you post here can come back to haunt you. But you don't have to believe me. You can check with a criminal defense attorney.

Study how the Feds are attacking Colorado and Washington for clues on how they will enforce Federal anti-marijuana statutes. The same tactics with some variation will be applied to rounding up non-compliant gun owners.

Some folks live in fear all their lives too.

Me, I"ve only said its time to stand up and draw a line in the sand and if need be, defend it by the rights given us in our constitution. Pretty simple. Pretty guaranteed. And pretty much demanded by wording as I've noted.

Or you can stay quiet, hide your guns and live in fear the rest of your life that they'll eventually catch you. And what good are the guns then? Absolutely worthless IMHO. If I can have em, shoot em every day, hunt, fish( yeah show me where thats guaranteed again???) etc.... what good is having em secreted away somewhere?

Sometimes I wonder where anyone these days gets enough people with the balls left to start a fight anyway.

Think very carefully about what you've posted. What makes you believe that federal cops will not go home to their families as they damned well should?

Advocating killing cops for doing their jobs is beyond stupid. And as a retired cop, you know which side I'm on. I will protect by brother cops; federal, state, or local. That's the way I roll.

If you want to preserve your Second Amendment right, do it the right way, and that's at the ballot box. Throw the bums out & elect patriots. That's the way it's supposed to work in a constitutional republic of laws.

AT Laguna:

"We're living in the 21st century with technology that is unbelievable. You are not going to win a fight with an Apache helicopter. What would you do in complete isolation with no ability to communicate? You are aware that in war one of the first targets destroyed is communication. That means no cell phones. No Internet. No radio. No communication. Period."

That's your first mistake traitor...to rely on tech over guile, stealth and determination. I am sure our defeat in Vietnam would be a great study for you should you get the time to read about it.

I think that your advice is about as shallow as you are and your fear-mongering about as effective. You have been brain-washed badly Laguna and it shows.

Sworn officers swore to uphold the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Don't you remember doing that Laguna? If you don't you should not be entrusted with a weapon. Period.

@ Iguana - I haven't seen anyone post a statement advocating doing anything illegal. Must have missed it.

You are like a cancer. Like one with a group of soldiers in battle who spews negativity among troops. You would deserve to be hog tied and gagged in such a situation.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Best of luck to you, Plinker.


Adios

Yep, I've been brainwashed. Absolutely. I should have thought of that angle.


Take care

You would protect your brothers in blue even if they were violating the constitution? We are all in agreement that we use the ballot box as we can. But we had no ballot box in 1776. And if we'd have just say WTF we'd still be subjects, not citizens. Though we are closer to subjects every day.

If I'm not mistaken the military code even says you don't follow an order if its an illegal IE bad order.... Blind faith only works great in one aspect, thats Christianity. Beyond that blind faith will get you in a bind. Sometimes a big bind.

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."

A reminder....for those wavering about it.

+1

rost495,

Cops are legally unable to interpret whether our constitution was violated. That is the providence of a court where such an allegation is argued by the prosecution that such a violation did not occur and the defense that will argue it did. This is most common in 4th Amendment cases in which defendants are trying to suppress evidence. A judge will decide the outcome.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

It may be a distant memory to some but it is burned into my every fiber. The Constitution is a compact with God.

No arguments from me on that.

The other thing you should have thought of is the unlikelyhood of having a reasoned discourse with zealots.

Loony, I think you have about as much chance of being a retired cop as I do of being a balerina. IF you ever wore a badge it was either A, a convinience store security badge. or B, whatever dept. Did hire you quickly realized its folly and promptly removed you.

Furthermore,I think Cross has you pegged right you probably are a pedophile. You show classic signs of a sociopath with your gransdiose self image, and attempt to manipulate everyone's statements towards you. Why don't you just GO AWAY

Probably was as close to being an LEO as Hawkeye almost was.

He sure runs HARD at putting words in other peoples mouth, and twisting their own words into improbable and threatening context,...... to the point of SERIOUS offense.

Take ONE thing to the bank,.....we've all a better chance at winning the Power Ball, than seeing this azzwhole in Sierra Vista.

GTC

He has all the familiar symptom's of a frustrated wannabe. Mall Ninja or Meter Maid would be my best guess.

Hard to interpret that. Setting the record straight, however, I took the exam soon after high school for the local department and my score nearly topped it out (98th Percentile). As a result, I was assigned to be in the first of three possible hiring phases (which one you were in was determined by your test score). A civil rights suit was filed against the department by a black rights organization because virtually no blacks scored high enough to make it into the first hiring phase. The judge ordered that all "passing" test scores be randomly jumbled, disregarding who did better than whom, so that the blacks with a "passing" score fell equally into all hiring phases. As a result, I ended up in the third hiring phase (i.e., my high score position was stolen from me and given to a black candidate who didn't score as well as I did), I was informed that there might not even be a third hire, and if there was, it would be a year or two down the road. I decided to enroll in college. Turned out they did have a third hiring but, by the time they contacted me to report for my physical exam, I had changed my priorities and decided to remain in college.

Feel free to bring this up as often as you like, as I enjoy recounting it. Really highlights the injustice of these sorts of actions on the part of our court system.

I think teaching was a better fit for someone like yourself.

Then we agree.

...yeah, yeah...and your boyfriend is a CHIP!

It does not stop there...saw some stupid cow on television last night blaming the recent spate of armed robberies upon the ready availability of kitchen knives.

You really cannot fix stupid....best just to stomp on it when found.


Do not go the way we have.

Yes. Definitely.

Glad of it.

Me too

Maybe not...but Cross is consistant (and entertaining), further more I prefer his version of the world than yours.

Great.

Very well

OK, then.

yes

Indeed.

Which is registration. IF I dont sell it or give it away, its registered to me.

Hence, registration.

suficiente

Nope, because there's no law requiring you to inform any official before transferring it, and you can avoid the process altogether by not buying from an FFL to start with. But it constituted an all too dangerous step in the direction of registration, and should have been resisted more when it was first proposed.