[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZKVSNjlSp0[/video]

But the most important thing is that those two officers made it home safely at the end of their shifts.

No surprise, like the rest of the community the cops also have their swaggering, gutless, braggarts.

They also list a lot of good people that more than earn their keep...the biggest problems seem to be the political crap that run the Local Area Commands.

The world is full of posers. There are people masquerading as President, Preacher, Policeman and Teacher.

TRH, you should know this, the police have no legal obligation to protect you

Absolutely right. Supreme Court said so. Which puts the lie to the idea that we don't need the liberty to bear arms for our own self-defense since the police are there to protect us. This case, and others like it, could (should) be the basis for overturning the anti-concealed carry policies of cities like NYC and Chicago.

But there-in lays the problem...they get all bent out of shape if you dare to defend yourself.

We ought to be air dropping raven .25's and cases of ammo onto Chicago and New York.

Maybe putting Heroin in newspaper vending machines on every street corner as well.

That way, in about 2-3 years, we could go back in and re-settle with republicans.

Only problem is that cops who behave like this aren't in fact posers since the law doesn't even impose on them a duty to behave differently, i.e., it's already part of the job description to stand down under like circumstances, "officer safety" being their paramount consideration.

Exactly that is indeed the problem

Bestest idea I've heard in a while

You paint with such a wide brush when you should really be doing trim work.

I'd say that my personal feeling about the term "cop" would be that the behavior you describe would be exactly what a cop would do. It is a derogatory term. But to say that all police officers are "cops" is akin to saying all black people are "n*ggers". Simply isn't true.

However, look at it this way, for the sake of discussion:

You are under no lawful requirement to act in this situation.

You are working in a city where your actions will be scrutinized to the nth degree if you do take action and it results in bodily harm, serious physical injury or death is the result for the knife wielding serial killer.

Your training and experience tell you that the firearm is the preferred response to and edged weapon. Problem is, you are on a subway. (I am assuming that there were more than three people on the subway car. I didn't watch the clip.)

Your co-workers inadvertantly shot a few bystanders a couple of months ago trying to put down an armed assailant on a street in NYC. You know that isn't going well for them or the department.

What will you do? How long will it take you to filter through these things in your head and make a decision about what route to take?

Looks like too many cops are taking this message too literally these days.

CT, don't try to reason with him. He has his mind made up, and it is full of hate.

You can't reason with emotion, you've been married long enough to know that.

TRH has some serious emotional issues that cloud his reasoning ability when it comes to LE and it a waste of time to try to discuss LEO with him.

Ed

There are days when I feel more like discussing than others for sure. It is disheartening to see men criticized for acting within the law and policy.

It is akin to bitching at NFL players for not hitting hard anymore. They get skinned alive with fines and penalties if they play anything more than two hand touch.

Or to criticize teachers for passing disrespectful brats onto the next grade or graduation, because they didn't take the time to instill discipline or respect in little johnny. Never mind that the teacher can't whip little johnny's ass anymore or, more importantly that parents don't instill discipline in their children to start with, as it should be.

No matter your profession, you have to do your job within the guidelines you are given. Lucky is the man who makes his own set of rules and gets to operate by them for very long.

I don't understand this attitude. I hear cops call themselves cops all the time in a friendly, casual, and matter-of-fact, manner, thus I think it reasonable to assume it's not considered derogatory by them. Also consider the history of the term. The first police department in the nation, of the sort we think of today, was the NYPD. They wore copper badges. They came to be referred to by the public, therefore, as "coppers." Gradually this was shortened to "cops." I'm not seeing the derogatory nature of the term.

Black people call each other "N*gger" all the time too. You try it the next time you feel like scuffling.

And you know what happens when you assume.

My personal feeling about the term is that it is derived from this term.

cop-out also cop�out (kpout)
n. Slang
1. A failure to fulfill a commitment or responsibility or to face a difficulty squarely.
2. A person who fails to fulfill a commitment or responsibility.

Well, it certainly behooves you to create that impression, now doesn't it? Can't refute an argument, then attack the man making it, right? It's a story as old as the hills, my friend, though, as always, indicative of very poor character.

I took an oath to enforce the laws of the Commmonwealth of Kentucky roughly 20 years ago. On that oath, I hang my honor and integrity. I do not play favorites and I do not shirk responsibility. I have fulfilled my commitment to the people of Kentucky on enough occasions that I no longer feel the need to "prove myself". I am not a cop.

Just my personal feeling on the term.

I simply can't see how you can cast dispersion on Ed's character.

OUCH!

I bet that stung a little!

Those two cops were cowards, theres cowards in all walks of life, I know several but I don't know any cops that are cowards.

I think you must be in the minority among policemen in that sense of offense connected to the term.

I have no problem with policemen operating under the guideline whereby they are not bound to render assistance, so long as they are honest about it, i.e., so long as they don't intentionally create the impression with the public that reality is otherwise. Most folks pay their taxes contributing to your salary with the explicit understanding (created by slogans on police cars, for example) that they are paying for protection from criminals. Perhaps if the police were more honest about this sort of thing more people would be demanding the right to carry the means of self-defense.

The cops who watched this take place were Black , this should tell you something about why he received no help from them.

I've been around this business for quite a while and once in a blue moon, you'll run up on one.

I've personally seen one drive in the opposite direction while we were headed to a shooting, and heard another call in a "flat tire" while there was lead in the air.

Like Josey Wales said. "A man's gotta know his limitations."

No outfit is perfect, so long as it is comprised of humans.

Good Lord, brother, we could go on for hours about the effect affirmative action has had on the product that gets turned out.

Hawk, thanks for that history lesson. I never knew how that term came to be. Personally, I never viewed the term in a derogatory nature.

From some past mis-information I had associated the word 'cop' with "constable on patrol". Here is some information that clarifies that misconception along with the copper badge misconception;
http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/cop.asp

Don't ever take offense at my use of the word "cop" as my understanding of it came from the word "copper' as in the gangster days when badges were copper.

I'll try to change but I am old and set in my ways.

Is it your opinion that employing argumentum ad hominem is a mark of good character, or do you agree with me that it's a mark of poor character? That's all that matters. After that, it's only a question of whether the shoe fits.

You do understand that we don't sit around the coffee pot and come up with snappy slogans to put on our cars. The political appointees up the chain, who work for the Governor, or the Mayor do that kind of horse$hit.

I guess we could be a little more forthcoming with folks and take out a few radio ads. Something along the lines of: "Hi, this is officer friendly. In recent years, the political climate has changed to the degree that my fellow officers and I can no longer effectively guarantee your personal safety. We'd love to be of assistance if we can, however, with the poor support we receive from our superiors and lawmakers, we feel its best to tell you to wear your running shoes at all times. That way, when you shoot your little .380 empty, you can run for your life."

I'm not against that. Per Se.

No sir, that's my opinion of Ed's character after having conversations with him, and your character after having discussions with you.

None taken, friend.

You're right. I am wrong. It was wrong of me to resort to employing argumentum ad hominem. I apologize for that.

You are what you are, and I am what I am.

I try to stay away from these threads for they are nothing but emotional arguments that bear only marginal resemblance to a reasonable discussion. I failed at that self-imposed rule this morning.

Ed

Coppers in Australia refer to themselves as cops...and the public refer to them as cops, it not derogatory here just a title.

Just like you lot being a pack of Yanks....even the Southerners.

Must be a northeastern thing not to be offended by it nor to see it as offensive.

OUCH! That really hurts!
Hope your day is a good one, sir.

It is 2.50 am and quiet here, you have a good one CT.

Regards.

No matter whether they were black, red, brown or white.........

Anyone using the guise of the letter of the law of no obligation to protect, doesn't deserve to wear a badge, whether it be NYC of Podunk, KY.

With the badge comes a moral obligation; if one cannot accept that, then he should look for another line of work, period.

I think most LEO's who post here are more than willing to accept that obligation but I can't understand making any kind of excuse, either legal-ease, or not for not penalizing the kind of behavior of the 2 NYC cops in this case...........& to get the full impact of the story, you must watch the entire video clip.

What I can say with certainty, is if that very same thing had happened to lots of folks that I know, at some point in time, those two "officers" would likely have simply disappeared.

MM

Perhaps we were raised with a different set of values, then. I was raised to believe that such tactics indicated a paucity of honor.

Surprisingly enough, I have no real problem with that.

I was raised to believe pedophiles should never be allowed to become teachers.

MM,

Please know that the discussion started with my taking at face value TRH's assertion that the [bleep] were under no lawful obligation to act. Here, they would be. I know nothing about the laws of NY.

Even so, I am in agreement with you. If you can't make that decision to act, you need to find other means of employment. There is nothing dishonorable about selling vacuum cleaners, digging ditches, working at a newspaper or any other means of honest work. If you find yourself unable to insert yourself in a situation like the one reported in the original video, you should certainly be successful elsewhere.

[/quote]Perhaps we were raised with a different set of values, then.[/quote]

Apparently so.

Thank you sir. You have my respect for saying so.

We seem to have different values...I do not think they should be allowed to breath my air at all.

Maybe, maybe not...........integrity is a characteristic that has value & brings rewards in many endeavors besides LE.

That's a big part of what's wrong with the entire country, including the business world........an obvious lack of integrity.

MM

MM,

The decline in personal, corporate and political integrity that our country displays, is a cancer. It will eventually close the eyes of the republic forever.

I imagine that we're all in agreement on that, to say the very least.

CT,

We're on the same page............best wishes for your continued safety.

MM

Both cops need to have their head and face tatoo'd in bright yellow with a joining yellow stripe down their back. The mayor and his toadys need to have a peacock tail permenantly affixed to their as_ so nobody will mistake them for men.

You guys really ought to get out more often. It's obvious that you don't have enough conflict in your lives. One would think you would grow weary of getting pounded day in, day out, by people who know what you are. At least, got outside, and come back and tell us how many people tryed to kill you today. That's much more interesting.

Some odd remarks, right there. Why don't you follow your own advice?

Deal, come meet me at Mardis Gras for the next twelve hours and we'll pal around.

That.

My career is in banking with a smallish community bank where we make money on the spread between liabilities (deposits) and assets (loans), the way banks should operate. I don't make excuses for unethical, immoral, and illegal behavior by my cohorts, nor am I butt-hurt by the constant attacks on perps of said actions.

Seems pretty easy & straight forward to me. I don't see how one could view the video and not see the glaring problems that LE is pregnant with in this day and age. It isn't just a couple individuals; it is clearly systematic.

Nah, for every one of those there's a 1000 of these, and another 10,000 not reported. It's been the same since the beginning of civilization.
______

SAN DIEGO (CBS 8) - Just days after he helped save a family from a raging apartment fire in Clairemont, a heroic San Diego police officer is at it again.

This time, officer Zach Bradley pulled a suspected drunk driver out of her wrecked vehicle. An SUV flipped over and hit a natural gas meter on the side of an apartment building in Clairemont.

It happened just hours after Bradley wrapped up a press conference where he spoke about rescuing a woman and her two daughters as they jumped from a second-story building engulfed in flames Tuesday morning.

You won't hear any argument from me on that, sir. My personal experiences w/ LEOs has been nothing but pleasant and any complaints I've had were due to their faithful enforcement of the penalties of my foolishness.

My fear stems from the big brother state and the unsavory characters (like those in this story) who would take advantage of it w/ protection from the law.

If your history lesson is true, the copper badge thingy, why would a LEO take offense to it ?

You'd have to have a Segway for him to ride. Ever read the account of his rigorous training program for his Idaho wilderness hunt and how that all transpired? The training program consisted of walking several blocks and the hunt involved getting at least a 150 yards from an ATV on cut power-lines. If you ever get bored of watching grass grow or your bumper rust, it's a good read.

==============

Really? I'm checking out Kayak right now.

I see lagunabot trh is at it again...........

Instead of continuing to beat up every officer good or bad we should be turning stories like this around and using it to make our case in Washington that every legal citizen has the God given right to protect themselves and their family. Let the idiot congress critters who tell us the police are to protect us face the facts. When an educated populous knows the truth they will stop believing the lies. Those citizens in NYC, Chicago and other places where they are denied the right to arm themselves deserve the help from all of us to set the record straight.

Alternate theory is that officers on a beat would engage in a five finger discount, as in cop an apple. I haven't heard anyone object to the term cop in decades. Now pig was a fine insult in the '70s, don't know what's popular today.

When did I request a meeting with you?

And it's copper buttons which were common on uniforms, never heard the badge thing.

When you average on this site alone 15 posts a day for over 10 years you know TRH has no life let alone any conflict.

And the proof of that is the frequency with which these types of occurrences happen in pairs or groups. It defies credulity to suggest that it's just the occasional bad apple, rather than being a systemic problem, when so frequently it happens in pairs or groups of cops. Are the defenders suggesting that these were just astronomically improbable coincidences, i.e., that the three or four bad cops in the entire state just happened to be together at that moment, and that there just happened not to be a single one of the (we are told) 99.99999999999999999% of good cops among them to put a stop to it?

I'm wondering why somebody didn't get Tazered in that incident.

Pat and TRH hanging together at Mardi Gras would be a sure sign of the End Times.

Not sure, but did I misunderstand you as agreeing with me that it's not offensive?

I suffer from a damaged heart muscle, my friend. In way of endurance, I do the best I can, and usually stun the doctors. I'm not one to simply fold from such an event and surrender to it. On my previous guided elk hunt (before suffering the loss of heart function), in the Colorado Rockies, I was quite deep into wilderness and did quite a bit of climbing after riding horseback as far as horses can take you up mountainsides. My preparation for that one involved the sorts of workouts done by high school athletics teams.

If you are saying that it's not offensive, then yes.

Exactly right.

Take a look at who outranks me in posts per day and check back with us.

If only there was a brave wannabe Bruce Ree teacher there with a set of nunchucks to disarm this man...

OK, I will have to read it again. I could have sworn you said you never considered it offensive. This is all perplexing to me, as I hear cops call each other cops all the time, and not like blacks calling each other the N word. I mean very casually and matter of factly.

Thank you.

I did. Personally, I don't consider it offensive. Pig, douche bag, etc......well, yes.

Well, naturally.

I'm thinkin' your heart ain't the only thing damaged.

And who is this "wilderness" fella?

Pat's Cajun buds are gonna take TRH on a 'gator hunt! Lemme know how THAT turns out

" My preparation for that one involved the sorts of workouts done by high school aesthetics teams."


what does that entail? like, going to art museums and libraries?

Hope it's not Lee24....

He was hunting elk armed with water colors and a canvas....

Doesn't surprise me one bit you did the sorts of workouts of a high school aesthetics team! What a fugg'n maroon!

If we were allowed to do that, & the judicial system wasn't so PC & the law was applied as intended, might work.

But then the politicians would have the control they so badly crave over a free people.

MM

You're a funny man, Steve. Cheap shot well scored. Admittedly, an unfortunate auto-correct.

Certainly points out the difference between the Red States and the Blue States.

The police are there to serve and protect------the ruling elite.

really? when you call 911, do they ask for your "ruling elite" password?

Nope, but I live in a Red State where we have more guns than population or police. When we call 911 it's to have them come and pick up the body.

Oh, then you have had the coppers clean up your bodies a few times then.

Poseur.

Derby- You can use my password if you wish.( I stole it from Steve)

I don't blame you all for keying into a funny auto-correct mishap (after all, it certainly behooves you to cast me the Campfire fool), but intermixed with such posts, anyone care to respond to the above?

==============

Sure...on just Monday alone, I haven't been able to add up all the dead bodies.


The Bozeman Police Department reports for Monday included the following:

A woman said raccoons were living in a storm drain near her house. She was concerned for her chickens. Police told her they do not routinely trap urban wildlife.
A man became disorderly at a local cellphone business on West Main Street. He was upset about his cellphone and its coverage.
A man was receiving magazines he hadn�t ordered and also received invoices for them. The case was referred to the postmaster.
A man kept going into a North 19th Avenue business, where he was yelling and swearing.
A dog was seen on a paddleboard in the East Gallatin Recreation Area pond where dogs are not allowed. Police found no canines in the area.
A transient apparently set up camp in a North Grand Avenue window well.
A rider was doing wheelies on a motorcycle on South Sixth Avenue around 3:15 p.m.
A man shot himself in the leg while cleaning his gun.
Officers responded to 135 calls.
The Gallatin County Sheriff�s Office reports for Monday included the following:

A deputy checked on a woman who had fallen asleep with her headlights on along Big Sky Spur Road. She was OK.
Deputies checked on a woman who had stopped on the side of Cottonwood Road around 1:45 a.m. She was looking for her iPod.
A 20-year-old man was �extremely hot-headed� and punched a hole in a bedroom door because his mother told him she was turning off his cellphone.
A black bear ripped open a trash bag that had been left outside overnight.
An adolescent male was seen running on the shoulder of Interstate 90 just west of mile marker 312 around 6 p.m.
Three bears in the Gardner Park Drive neighborhood �acted appropriately and ran from humans.�
An unoccupied trailer on the frontage road in Logan was on fire around 7:30 p.m.
Deputies warned a 14-year-old girl who got into a screaming match with her parents over grades.
A man�s neighbors complained about him blaring music. He didn�t know he was disturbing people. He agreed to turn his music down when he entered the neighborhood.
It appeared �someone dropped some furniture� on College Street.
Deputies responded to 105 calls.

I didn't know the body count was high in Helena either where Wheel is.

No matter whether they were black, red, brown or white.........

Anyone using the guise of the letter of the law of no obligation to protect, doesn't deserve to wear a badge, whether it be NYC of Podunk, KY.

With the badge comes a moral obligation; if one cannot accept that, then he should look for another line of work, period.

I think most LEO's who post here are more than willing to accept that obligation but I can't understand making any kind of excuse, either legal-ease, or not for not penalizing the kind of behavior of the 2 NYC cops in this case...........& to get the full impact of the story, you must watch the entire video clip.

What I can say with certainty, is if that very same thing had happened to lots of folks that I know, at some point in time, those two "officers" would likely have simply disappeared."[quote]

I really think that - after seeing a few dozens, if not hundreds - of these type threads, your post perfectly describes how a majority of the members feel about the content of the LEO/Members responses.

IOW...... I wish I'd have been smart enough to post it.

Holy [bleep], I'm rollin'!

Derby all holed up with his guns out and the blinds drawn...wonderin' "who sending me these gawd damn magazines!" Its a conspiracy!!!!

If the shoe fits...

they stack up more bodies in New Orleans on a good Saturday night than get killed in the whole state of Montana in a year.

and this is a very red state

Dat be da black utes gettin' even for bein' dissed all de time

I wholeheartedly agree.

Let's cut to the chase and just call you Cinderella.

Well I did tell them once they might have to do that. Did leave the dispatcher speechless. They did do an area search but no shots were fired so all was good.

Montanans for the most part are self-reliant folks who don't rely on or expect the police to protect us. For a good many Montanans police assistance could be up to two hours away. Even here in the city the police could be a good half hour away from providing any help.

The point I was making especially in cities like New York the only people who have guaranteed police protection 24/7 is the ruling elite. In a place like Montana our ruling elite generally do not have 24/7 police protection and many of our ruling elite have CCW permits and protect themselves.

Obviously, Red States tend to be more self-reliant than Blue States who have been trained to rely on the zoo keepers for everything including protection that probably won't come.

That's hardcore.

Hawk, Thanks for an informative video and idea to show why we need to be able to carry.

The offer by Lt Powell would be something I would rate above that of a private dinner at the White House with the present resident and I expect it would be much more enjoyable and entertaining.

I would not treat such an offer with any amount of disdain and feel to do so would be foolish.

" On my previous guided elk hunt (before suffering the loss of BRAIN function), "

FIXT it.

That's more than just a little creepy. You probably should have kept that fantasy to yourself.

A dog was seen on a paddleboard in the East Gallatin Recreation Area pond where dogs are not allowed. Police found no canines in the area.
============

That right there is a huge body count waiting to happen.

Deputies responded to 105 calls........


That's a slow night....

Incorrect, the reply was good and germaine, after all you are being a wee bit prissy.

You sir are quite the wit. Have you considered doing this professionally?

Here you go, Hawkie. You must have , er, ignored this story. But don't worry...the mean ol' police got him!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/0...ng-child-porn-at-school/?test=latestnews

OK guys, it is one thing to argue about any given subject but I have to come to TRH's defense on this one. A handicap is just that. Not a damned thing you can do about it. We all applaud when someone like Blue takes our handicapped Veterans on a special hunt but want to roast THR for an handicap he has no control over. I don't see anyone else slammed because of a heart problem, usually we pray for them.

I have a back issue with nerve damage to my left leg. My days of backpacking into a remote elk camp are long over. Several of us here have injuries that would keep us from packing an elk five miles up a mountain. It don't make any of us bad people.

I guess you will have your fun anyway but I will take a different path. I will pray for strengthening and healing for THR's heart. No, I often do not agree with his anti police posts but that does not mean I would not call him a friend or pray for his needs.

My last comment on this thread.

Well... No, I haven't.

Now.......... if you would consent to being "planted" in the audience, most anybody could make the big time.

Thanks Scott. Nothing less than I'd expect from the likes of you, however.

PS My chickens are nearly up to full egg production now that the days are longer. They almost stopped completely in December. I collected six (from nine hens) yesterday. So nice not to have to scrimp on eggs anymore.

If you say so, my friend.

Wow, never heard you mention that before. Prayers sent.

105 calls in 24 hours is not exactly the wild-wild west. Unless they're all body pick up calls at DD's house.

The story I heard was that it had to do with the cheapness with which police could be bribed as in the copper of a penny. That would explain the offense and is the reason I call them "officers" not just to their faces but in front of my kids as well.

TRH - thanks for posting this.

That's new to me. Regardless of origin, however, policemen seem to have taken it as their own, and apart from the one guy here at the Fire, I've never heard even a hint of it being offensive to them before. How do you explain it to your kids when, for example, a policeman discusses his experiences or opinions "as a cop," i.e., casually referring to himself by that term?

You're welcome.

A lot of guys around here still use "copper" among peers in conversation. Cop, much like a few other terms, is only offensives to me based on connotation and tone.

My historical perspective, though, is based on the copper badge.

George

I suppose that could be the case with a lot of terms, e.g., one could scornfully call someone a New Yorker, or just refer to someone, matter of factly, as a New Yorker. Like you say, it's context specific.

Great post Scott. You're a good man and so is TRH. I think a lot of people on here take it personally when he posts a video showing abuse by police. My take on it is that he is certainly not accusing the officers who post here of anything nor is he implying they are bad cops.

FWIW there are many of us here who are closely related to teachers, and it doesn't seem to stop those who routinely bash the whole teaching profession based upon a few of their number who are dickweasels, nor does it deter them from bashing teachers simply to get at Hawkeye, since he is one. IMO Hawkeye is justifiably concerned about the steady erosion of civil liberty in this country and the videos he posts are an expression of that, not some attempt to bash a good percentage of posters here or even their chosen profession as a whole.

I was thinking it was called a Tin Star in the old days and they were called Star Packers

doesnt get past the fact the guys an idiot scared of his own shadow.....he spends alot of time bragging bout what could have been, how he could have been a cop, how he could have been a lawyer, instead he went and hid becoming a teacher, something safe where he couldnt fail and beotches about people actually doing the chit he chickened out on doing himself though he claims he is more than qualified to do....he choose a path of hiding from the real world where he cannot fail instead of doing something to really change the chit he beotches about.....

he wants to beotch, he doesnt want to act....he wants to stand at the window and beotch and moan instead of going out and doing something about it....he is scared of his own shadow and chose to hide instead of act.....

Lawmen go much further back in our nation's history than do police departments. Lawmen wore a star before there were policemen. Policemen wore a copper, shield shaped, badge, and the first ones in our nation's history were in NY City in the 1840s.

today you have a better chance of getting shot in a school class room than any police precinct or dept.

Nobody?

You directed your post at a small target[defenders] and most of them don't like you much, so it's not surprising you haven't gotten a response. So.....

You have a valid point.

OTOH, we have no way of knowing how many times an over-aggressive cop is reined in by other cops before anything bad happens.

Regardless of context, "cop" is better than "how a** laws", which is what I hear far more often than "officer".

So I'm OK with cop.

this link was posted on the second page of the thread, it give the origin of the term.

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/cop.asp

That's undeniably true.

Birds of a feather flock together.

When you see a mess where bad stuff happens and not a single one of the 3 or 4 officers involved does anything to stop it, it is because they have been shunned by the decent units who don't want to be around when they screw up.

I respect that you made an effort.

There are different kinds of bad policemen.
1. Criminals
2. Cowards
3. Zealots.

There are probably more, but many fall into one of those three categories.

There are categories of bad teachers, bad doctors, and bad carpenters. The bad ones from each of those professions tend to congregate with one another.

I respect that you recognize my effort, but if I could, I'd like to touch back on the point I asked about in the beginning of the thread.

It's rare that one gets beaten up or shot unjustly by his plumber, baker, teacher, doctor, etc., however, so most folks are more concerned about patterns of corruption among policemen.

This? Undeniable.

No you don't get physically beaten up by them, and I'll concede that point. You can however go to a doctor for an ailment and end up getting a botched surgery. You then have to go to another physician and they do all they can to keep from having to come out and say that the original surgeon screwed the pooch.

I'm just saying that anyone who does any job in a hazardous, slipshod or sloppy manner is likely to to associate with others who have similar propensities. I'm guessing it is because they don't want to worry about getting judged or called out by someone with principles.

Help me out, Hawk, I miss your point here.

If I were a bad cop, I would only be a bad cop alone or around other bad cops because I wouldn't want to get busted.

It's the same reason child molesters only talk about diddling kids to other child molesters. Same / Same with drug addicts and bank robbers. They only do their ner-do-well deeds around others who share their ner-do-well aspirations.

Bad cops, bank robbers, kiddie fiddlers and such who are blatant about their acts are figured and dealt with pretty quick.

Or it's because most of the people drawn to a profession that often takes more than it gives and ends in disaster for political reasons completely outside your control are criminals.

I see you understand my point, Bluedreax. Thanks for expanding on it.

Didn't you ask me to go back to this post and comment on it? If not, which post did you want me to comment on?

I'm sorry for not just bringing this back to the front to be more specific.

I didn't see anyone "slamming" TRH for having a bum ticker, only some pointing out that his cerebral function is also suspect.

We all got our problems.

He however takes every opportunity to cast dispersion on many here who happen to wear a badge.

His obsession with power and state would make Foucault proud.

I think I understand the point you're making there.

When folks are danged if they do act and danged if they don't act, most will default to not acting.

I can find few times that I agreed with TRH. I have close family and friends who are police officers. All the BS posts aside that have nothing to do with the video posted I can only say that if things happened as the guy says, and it sounds like they did, those police officers are a disgrace to the honorable men and women who serve in law enforcement and I hope that bad karma follows them.

I always heard it was from "Constable On Patrol" C O P, and never thought it was derogatory, but I don't use it much, anyway, as it doesn't come up in my usual conversations.

I know you are not speaking of yourself. You are explaining rather than defending.

But.... if a man finds himself working in an important job that he is prevented from doing, the ONLY honorable course for him is to resign the position.

Do you agree?

Try aspersions...see how easy it is to point out spelling errors.

+1

I have a spelling handicap

[bleep] off........See!

So, it's okay for us "Yanks" who ain't, BTW, to refer to all Aussies as "sheep rooters"? even though you Aussies claim to prefer goats and leave the sheep to Kiwis? (as per one of the posters on AHN.net). d:*)

Goats...new one on me, I was fairly sure that only applied to those Yanks that resided in Louisville, Kentucky...you know, the ones that have a stick up their arse because they are bonafide f_ckwits.

Have a nice day.

Ha, so do I .

A qualified yes, if you'll allow me.

I'd say a good man first has a duty to do what he can to fix things from within, or try with all he's got to change things.

The next most honorable thing, IMHO, is to just say screw it and do the right thing anyway, consequences be danged.

But the first option can wear you down and is often unsuccessful. The second option is heroic in theory, but heroism doesn't pay doctor bills for the wife and kids. So I usually don't blame folks for balking at it. Those with families often don't have the luxury of also having unwavering principles.

Which leaves you with the option of resigning. So there's my qualified yes. I'm not arguing, just expounding.

Hoe a** laws....autocorrect got me.

That's a good analysis, Blue.

And it's true & applies in many situations on a much wider scale than just LE.

MM

Correct, buttons

since no one will open the link and read it and it won't let me copy and paste.

What're "phillipepenos"? I'm scared to google it.....

lol, i was trying to figure out how to spell Filipino.

Back to the topic -- it seems that if the case is this old it was not dismissed. Which may be incorrect. Using a quick internet search, I can't find that the case was decided. Does anyone know the actual status of Lozito's suit?

So what if Joe had had a 45 in a shoulder holster? HE'D be dead.
Such bullshyte, expecially Bloomberg and Kelly at the podium. If the cops are gonna stand down, then by golly, citizens should have a right to self-defense.
I love New York, I hate New York's government.

I believe most police officers would do every thing possible to protect citizens. Due to our court system it has become increasingly difficult for police to perform their duties without legal repercussions. I teach private armed security officers how to shoot & gun laws in Virginia. Private security officers have far less authority than sworn police. Most training for both sworn officers & private security used to teach the principals of the Escalation of Force. If someone uses a club the officer is not to use deadly force. If someone is weiling a knife the officer is not to use deadly force. If the individual has a gun then deadly force may be used. It gets very complicated. Most sworn officers training no longer use the Escalation of Force since attorneys used it to receive huge settlements in court. I teach Active Shooter & no longer use the Escalation of Force concept.

tbear, I may be misunderstanding you, but I was never taught the system you describe. I was taught the +1 theory. That began about 20 years ago when I was learing the trade.

All the cops I know (including my brother) would have been on the attacker like fleas on a dog: all the heck of him!

But, that is in mostly rural east Texas and not NYC. I think it is just a different mind set and personal philosophy of life. Today is a good day to die and if the cause be worthy, so be it.

You got to respect the New Yorker that stopped the Vic's blood loss and castigated the gawkers for doing nothing.

Yessir, doing the right thing is always right. Sometimes it just ain't easy.

Good on him for doing the right thing.

So clubs & knives are not deadly weapons when you have to defend yourself against them? Let's just say a 120 lb female LEO or civilian vs a 250 lb thug..........

But they are & would be in a criminal attack prosecution case..........

MM

He doesn't have a clue about what he's talking about.

whew that brought a tear to my eye!


needed it after watching the video and hearing of the two chickenshit cops and even worse the spin fing, lying pos politician Bloomberg put on the ordeal.


turns out ole Bernie Goetz was correct, but then we always knew that


there's not much worse than a gov't that will disarm you under the guise that it's for your protection and then fail to act to protect you particularly when they are on scene.


God but I hate liberal PC bullchit, the 2nd is there for us to protect ourselves against a tyrannical gov't or anyone else that would do us life threatening harm.