I am looking to sell my pickup and get a new/used pickup with lower miles so today I went to a local dealer with a pickup approaching what I am looking for.

Had a simple reminder why I despise dealers. Looked at a vehicle listed online for $24,900. Test drove it and told the salesman I was interested even though the used truck was a little higher mileage than I really want. Told the salesman to simply tell me what they would sell the used truck for and what they would give me on my truck as a trade-in. I stated explicitly, I don't want to dicker around. Give me your best prices and I will decide if it works for me.

Well, they low-balled me on the trade (to be expected) and then listed the sales price as $1,000 above the listed price online. I called the salesman on it and of course I got the bullcrap that he must have written something down wrong.

I politely demanded my keys and walked out. They are all the same. Lower than whale-[bleep].

Have not purchased from a dealer in over 25 years, Don't plan to again, if I live another 25.
Dealers are like casinos, there to separate you from your money.

Edit to add, I forgot a new Dodge Pickup in 1996.

I bought a brand new truck in 2008. They advertised it in the paper, looked about like what I was looking for and the price was good. Drove down there and the salesman walked out (also the owner) and had the keys and said here take it. I drove it and came back and said give me your bottom dollar total with TTL for it. He went to the accountant (the same guy, the owner) and printed me out a total on adding machine tape. I took that piece next door to the bank and got a certified check.

Walked back to the dealer and he said it was Friday and he didn't want to do paperwork so he drove my old truck home and I drove the new one and he had the shop guy pick him up.

Next week I stopped by and spent 5 minutes doing paperwork.

Gotta love small town dealerships with 20 trucks on the lot and 1 car in the showroom. Months after I bought the truck KBB showed a used one selling for more than I paid for a new one.

I'll never deal with a larger dealer, this one has an owner/salesman, a shop guy, and a secretary and that's it.

its why i like dealing with friends that own one of the local dealer ships....as business owners ourselves we know they need to make money to so when we are ready they give us a decent deal on trade in(we beat the chit out of our trucks and rack up miles so know we dont get top dollar for them anyway), give us the best deal currently available with rebates and such and send the paperwork to the bank....usually have the deal done in short order and everyone is happy....

I refuse to buy a new car. Used for me. I'll let someone else take the $5000 loss when it rolls off of the lot.

hard to find low mileage used here.....i like everyone else here live in the middle of nowhere so miles get racked up fast.....

The pAst 2 trucks I bought was from the same family of dealerships. The father owns both a Chevy and ford dealership. The Chevy was new and when I traded back to a ford the other brother gave me a good trade. I can't say anything but good about those two. If I trade again that's where I'm headed back.

So, you avoid any business that makes any profit?

Good luck sir...

I try if at all possible to avoid the dealers. I have yet to have a pleasant experience with a dealer. They do the same old song and dance where the tell you they have to "talk to the manager" when you make an offer. Then they squirm a bit and tell you that if they sell you the truck at that price, they'll have to give the Boss one of their kids, and get flogged in the show room. Then "The Closer" comes over to get involved. Then all of a sudden out of nowhere comes the "other party who wants the truck" who is little more than the guy they pay to help the closer convince you this trucks' gonna be gone if you don't sign on the dotted line right now at their price. It's all a game, and one I don't play. I do better buying from private owners, get my vehicles checked out by my mechanic, and don't have to deal with this crap.

Simple answer to that "talk to the manager" crappola. When they come back and state a number, just say "I'll talk to my manager" -- and leave.

Some years ago vehicle shopping I found a truck, told the dealer I didnt want to dicker, just give me the best price. He quoted a price, and I simply said " Wrong Answer" and got up to leave..
He quickly backpedalled and said " Today we could do it for $300 less..."

I simply said, " Now thats REALLY the wrong answer...when I asked for your best price the first time around..."

Adios!




I just bought a new vehicle from a dealer,the sales guy was old school ranch stock, and so am I, so it was a pleasant experience with no going back and forth.
Give me the right price and I'll write you a check. He did, and I did...

My dad went to about a dozen car dealerships looking for a new car, several years ago. Told each salesman exactly what he wanted and for them to write on the back of their business card what there lowest price would be. He also told each salesman that after he got thru visiting each dealership, he would look at the card and whoever had the lowest price would get his business.

Almost all of the salesman told him that if they didnt have the lowest price to contact them again and they would work with him to get a better price.

He bought the car he wanted and the dealer that sold it to him was about $3000 lower than the highest offer. And... none of the dealers were contacted a second time, except the one he bought from.

Went to a dealer with my mom when she was looking to buy a new car. Told the dealer we didn't want to mess around, just give us the best price and after we checked out a couple other places we'd buy the one with the best deal. Dealer flat out said, "Sorry, we don't do that. Every time we do we lose." Guy really didn't seem to realize that he'd just admitted they always have the highest prices..

Just bought two 2012 vehicles. Bought them from a used car dealership that puts the prices on the windows, and what you see is what you pay. No dicker. Got both for at least 10% under book. They get most of my business for the last few years.

Pretty much the way it is with large metro dealerships - like those on the "61 strip" near White Bear Lake; I should know - I worked for a couple of the biggest there for ten years..

I hated it most of the time.. They just don't get that things have changed and the "old school" tactics just ain't gonna cut it any longer..

Last two F-350s I bought were from small-town, local dealers. Absolutely painless and most pleasant experiences in every way..

I know a couple guys that got fleet deals because our agency spent millions of dollars on F450 chassis for 10 years. It was pretty simple for them and they saved lots of money and no muss or fuss. I bought a Honda Accord in 03 by internet shopping. I was surprised at how much we saved with no blah, blah, blah from salesmen. I figured out if I wanted to go spend all day dickering I might have saved another $500. It wasn't worth it to me.

A young friend of mine got a huge settlement when he was 14. When he was 18 he watch a friend of his get royally screwed by a big car dealer. He went to his bank and withdrew a briefcase full of money then headed out to Portland, Oregon's car dealer row. He would drive up, get a shark, oops make that a salesman, to help him find a new car. He would clearly ask the salesman if he was authorized to sell a car. Then they would head for the salesman's office. Once the door was closed or they were seated in a cubical he would start to dicker. He would open the briefcase, tell the shark how much we would pay for the new car he selected, then tell him that if he left the office or touched the phone the deal was off.

He spent the whole day going from dealer to dealer but could not buy a car. Not one shark could make a deal or sell a car without first talking to his manager. My friend said it was fun to watch them sweat and moan watching a commission walk out the door.

Keep in mind that's not the salesman's fault - it's the dealer owner who sets the rules - and if a salesman violates 'em he's out the door inside of 5 mns..

You have NO idea how true salesmen at dealerships despise those orders - they'd love to be able to do the whole thing themselves and the majority are more than capable of doing it.. It's simply not permitted at those large dealerships; at least, the ones I worked for at the time....and both customers and salesmen would get very frustrated..

Sometimes with all the rebates is better to buy new, our Dodge 1500 4x4 cost under $27k new. I internet shopped all the dealers within 3 hours of us for the model we wanted at the best price. No haggle with the internet prices.

I don't mind dealing if one is not in immediate need of a rig. Years ago we made an offer in June and were essentially laughed at. The same offer in December with about 20 minutes more of additional exchanges, and we drove it off the lot.

I am a bit disappointed, however, that manual trannys are becoming a thing of the past in working pickups.

Extended the range you're willing to travel may also provide a significant savings. I found a car I wanted on the internet, flew from Boise to Seattle for about $100 after telling the salesman the car had better be EXACTLY as described. He picked me up at the airport and on the ride to the lot told me if I didn't purchase the car they would pay for my flight home. The Corvette was exactly as described and I save at least $4k over what similar cars cost in Boise. Sheer luck I didn't get a ticket during the drive home.

believe there's a lot of truth in what you say Lee, car buying has changed over the years for certain.

in '89 I walked into the dealership and the guy I dealt with was good friends with his owner manager. They had a Buick Regal listed for around 19K IIRC, told him I'd write him a check for 16K right now. He paused for a second and said, OK.

about a 20 minute car buyin experience, no back and forth, just "will you take this for it?" yep

drove it home and gave it to the wife. Man that was a sweet lil car.

I bought a used car for my oldest daughter a few years ago. After months of looking at Autotrader we found one locally listed for $7995. We wrote down the vin number just to make sure and went to the dealer to do a test drive. We never mentioned seeing the car on Autotrader but did make sure it was the same vehicle by the vin number.

We told the salesman we were interested and told him to go and get the lowest price. He came back with $9995 and we just walked away without a word. When I got home I called the internet manager and told him I would pay $6000 for the car out the door if he would repair a piece of loose trim. He went to ask someone and came back and made the deal.

I understand having to make a profit but that would have been robbery. They tried to take advantage because my wife and myself are soft spoken and look gullible.

My truck is 6 years old next week with 120,000 miles on it. It will sell today within $5000 of what I paid for it. When I bought it a 2 year old identical truck with 30,000 miles on it was $1,500 less. There are good deals on some used vehicles, but in many cases it is just plain cheaper to buy new.

I've gotten the run around before in both large and small dealerships. Don't think there is much correlation. You have honest and dishonest folks everywhere.

I've had a few good car buying experiences at dealers, & a few nightmares. It helps to have all the information you can, & know when to walk.

The last time I bought new, I did it via phone/FAX. All the dealers knew exactly the model, trim level, color, & options I wanted, and they all had an equal opportunity to get the sale. I'm sure they didn't like selling the car that way, but my opinion is that it saved the drama for both of us.

A car is just a commodity. An expensive commodity, to be sure, but still a commodity. Go to the place with the lowest price, that treats you the best.

FC

I would rather have someone beat me with a stick than make me go to an auto dealer. Just talking to those vultures is about as inviting as a root canal.

You must like root canals.

I usually buy used but sometimes you can get a decent deal on a new truck. Just bought a new Avalanche, sticker for $43k, wrote the check for $36200. Many used versions were more expensive than that.

Easiest car deal I ever had was a couple of years ago when I bought my Wife a new Honda CRV. We knew what we wanted, color and all, but they were scarce. I found one at Fayetteville, AR. which is a four hour drive, one way. I had them price it on line and it was very competitive, so I told them that I would take it and when could I pick it up. We set a date and the wife and I drove up and looked at the car which was just what we wanted. They had the paperwork all ready and only asked if I wanted the extended warranty, and I told them only if it was free. The salesman laughed and said that it was not and did I want to finance. I said "No, I want to write a check". I wrote them a personal check and my wife got in the car and I got in the other car and we drove away. miles

Most of the people that come in with a chip on their shoulder and have the attitude of "sales people are lower than whale [bleep]" are treated that way too and usually their experience reflect that.
Treat us as a human and we do the same.
Been in the business for over 20 yrs and I love it.
Have learned that most of the lying, cheating, two-faced, scum are sitting on the other side of the desk.
There are good people out there. Most of the time if you treat people the way you would like to be treated it works.

About fifteen years ago, I was looking for a used pickup. Saw an interesting one on a dealer's lot and stopped by to look. I was driving an SUV at the time and the truck was to be extra, not a replacement. The salesman must've told me a dozen times he could take my vehicle out back and they'd determine how much trade-in value they'd allow. I also told him about a dozen times there's be no trade-in. Finally, he walked over to my vehicle and was starting to get in when my 125# overprotective dog woke up and snarled in his face. He jumped back and slammed the door. He began to stammer something about not telling him about the dog. I politely pointed out that I'd clearly said there'd be no trade so he had no business getting in my car. I also kindly mentioned that water shows well on khaki and he should've worn different pants if he was going to pizz himself. At least truck shopping was amusing that day.

It's well known that, "buyers are liars", and you're absolutely right that civility works wonders all the way around. And as was mentioned earlier, reasonable people don't expect companies to sell things without making a profit. It just seems like the process could be made a lot easier, & less painful. None of the, "good cop, bad cop" stuff, or, "Gosh, that's the last one of those we have" routines.

One would think the Sales Managers could put out a list each am of the bottom dollar price they'll accept on whatever's in inventory that day, & leave it to the salespeople to get at least that much, or more. No "icing the customer" while they go talk to the boss, just, "Here's what I can do for you, can we go ahead & start the paperwork?"

The dealership would have the bottom end covered, and could incentivize the sales force with an increasing commission structure for sales prices in excess of the bottom dollar: the more you can sell the cars for, the more of it you get to keep). The best sales folks would turn inventory & make more bank, the poorer ones would sell at the low price (or chase customers away & not sell anything), and would be shown the door pretty quickly.

Just an idea. And I'm sure it explains why I'm not a sales mgr @ a car dealership.

FC

I don't want a damn rebate. $50K sales price and get a $10K rebate? No. Gimme the car for $40K.

Used car dealers are the only business I know of where the price is based on how much they think they can get from any particular person.

If they were honest they would just have one price on any vehicle based on what they needed to sell it for to make a reasonable profit.

New cars are sold the same way. In any other industry, 'twould be deemed racist, or mysoginistic, or xenophobic, or whatever the hell. But for cars, it's fine.






I think it would be really interesting to see this. No salespeople - just a chalkboard in the window with the prices written down. Pick what you want, go to the order-taker, & drive away.

The only reason that a dealership hires salespeople, is to get as much $ for each car as they possibly can. Otherwise, they could just use chalkboards, & save the expense & headaches of having to pay, whip, & spur their sales force.

When I used to sell tractor attachments, I'd frequently run into dealers who'd refuse to even consider adding my products to their lot, saying, "In this area, it's all about price, & your stuff is way too expensive for what it does." At that point, I'd calmly say, "Then please hand pink slips to all of your salesmen, & send them home right now. If it's 'all about price', then there's no sense in paying people to try to sell your stuff at a higher price." And no, that line didn't work very often.

FC

There is only one way to buy a used car.

1. Only go to a dealer to decide on the make and model of car you want. Do not purchase now for any reason or amount.

2. Do extensive research on the used (10K-30K miles) make and model of your choice. Search Autotrader and other media over a period of a couple months and all around the country.

3.Now search to find the automobile of your choice with the mileage you want, available locally. You may now make an offer based on the actual value of the vehicle.

Never ever go to any dealership unless you know exactly what you should pay and knowing exactly what you want. If you do anything else you will pay too much.

I just got a "check" in the mail today from the dealer I bought a used truck from two years ago.

They're desperately in need of used trucks and want mine, and are willing to give me $9300 for a truck that retail blue books for over $19,000....

[bleep]' thieves....

They're not thieves, aalf. If they offer a price and you accept it, that's not stealing.

My wife and I were walking through the lot of our local Ford dealer this past Spring. Saturday afternoon and the dealership was closed but one of the owners happened to be outside. He saw us so of course he comes over.

Ended up going inside and drinking a couple beers. Gives us the set of keys to the vehicle my wife(sober..) wanted and we took it home for the weekend. Bought it later that week, pretty good deal.

Local dealer though and that makes all the difference.


Maybe could have saved a little money by going to a larger dealer hundreds of miles away but I doubt it.

It's good practice to support the local economy anyway, that and I'd feel like a total douche taking in a vehicle bought out of town in for service at our local dealer.

No you don't...laughin'

Took the Titan in a few months ago to discuss the front diff issue with the service department. While talking to the meckanick, a Nissan salesman shows up right on cue: "Have you thought about trading this truck in for a brand new one? We have plenty out on the lot.." . I didn't miss a beat, and replied, "Yeah, there's some real nice GMC's out there..".

The look on his face was priceless. He left about 2 seconds after that.

You are such a dick....grin


Milf-mobile show up yet?

So now you just said my best friend/hunting pard and my son are lower than whale [bleep]..... You just don't have good dealerships apparently...broad paint brushes usually get you in trouble in tight spots

When I was a Freshman in high school I had a 4 year old gelding that I broke a year or two earlier. It died in a freak accident and I was devastated.

The local Ford dealer also has a ranch and at the time had several horses. He knew I was heartbroken over my horse dying and actually gave me another young, halfway broke horse who turned out to be Fred.


Same dealer(recently retired) flagged for us last Tuesday when we moved balers an hour up the road.

Terrible guy.....grin

Maybe so, I just didn't care for the fishing expedition.

Especially with the dealership in central Wi, but the postmark was from W. Chitcago......

we trade them in a lil sooner than you do you seen the back bumper and rear driverside quarter panel of the truck lately? just had the Yukon fixed finally after the beating my stepdaughter gave it

What'd you do, back into a mailbox?


grin

Will they sell the same vehicle to two different people for two different prices based on how much they think they can steal?

not quite

Oh yeah.. that thing motors right along.

Cut it too tight at the Mickey D's drive through?




(joke)

Sweet!

How many ponies under the hood of that tank?

Apparently.....

I bought a used vehicle, signed the sales contract, put money down on it, to be picked up at a later date.

Called them up when I was ready to come get it. They told me...hang on...we'll call you right back. They did, but had sold "my" vehicle to someone else.

In their defense, they made it past right....

340 or something stupid like that.. Yamaha 4.4 liter V8 if you can believe it.
New glock fits real nice in the door slot.

Wifey's happy.

Holy chit, that is awesome.


Exploder is rated at 290hp, not that it matters I don't get to drive it anyway....(which is good).


Trash that [bleep] in about a week...grin

Maybe I'll bring the XC up to hunt birds.. install some river bottom pin stripes while we're at it.

Well I have a simple rule, it pretty much governs how I go thru life in general, you get to lie to me just once. Thats it. I don't like car dealers, and I sold cars for a while, and spent even more time selling aircraft. I learned early, just don't lie, If a customer says he dose not want clear coat or fabric protectant then don't write it up sale with that junk or have the clear coat lady come and stick her breast works into the discussion. I made more sales that way. I always looked at it, losing a sale is not good for making a living, I am working on commission so I looked at it, that some times 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. Word of mouth is very very powerful in sales, I got almost 50% of my sales thru that. Its something I learned selling aircraft it worked pretty good selling cars. I didn't like it much thou, it really was not my cup of tea.

I think he is saying, basically, he'd go to you to get the right barrel put on at a fair price, but if you charged him 2500 installation fee for a new tube, nope, go screw yourself instead.???

The last vehicle we bought I found the best price I could at a dealership in the same state and printed it out and went in to a dealership closer to us and said this is what I want to pay and if you don't match it we're going go on to the other dealership and buy this one.

They matched it for us when their original quote was way higher. It was pretty painless.

I think that's pretty common, at least with Ford. They sell each others inventory all the time, good idea to make them price match.

The pickup I drive was 'transferred' from Miles City to WP when it sold new to our neighbors on the river-bottom.



If I was looking for a new work truck someone said you can save $6k plus whatever other incentive on some light hail damaged pickups in Forsyth(?).

another person who don't know chit .............and has an asshoole attitude outlook....broad brushes again....


your comment would be like me asking you if the all women in your family and friends are hookers...........think about that

A while back an elderly lady from our small town went and got her oil changed in the city. They charged her $80. I believe it was Jiffy lube. Typical easy target sales tactic. Some car dealerships will do stuff similar to this on "easy" marks. FWIW my neighbor and I changed the oil in her car for the cost of oil and filter.
One of my best friends was in car sales/finance for several years. Fortunately it was a pretty good dealership that valued return customers over big profit. He told me stories of people coming in and buying cars from them after poor treatment from other dealers in town.
Another very close friends father ran the Buick dealership in my hometown. I was always impressed at the very loyal customer base he quickly built up while he was in business.
Not all dealerships are created equal.

Fair enough. I did overstate my thought a bit.

I will try this again. MOST sales managers are the same, lower than whale [bleep]. A decent number of sales people are alright but working under the constrains of the owner and sales manager.

As an earlier poster said, you get to lie to me once. I left the door open and they lied outright about the price. I explained I don't want to waste time dickering, tell me your best price and best trade-in and I will let you know if it works for me. Not only did they not budge an inch on a vehicle they haven't even had long enough to clean up, they jumped that price by a thousand. Then they seriously low-balled the trade.

The only reason I entertained the idea was that the truck I am looking for is really rare and this dealership happened to have the truck I want (although it has too many miles on it).

some of you guys should really get away from the huge dealerships and try the small ones.....

Did exactly the same thing when we moved back to Texas a few years ago with our local small town dealer. Then when the "haggling" started we gave a price we were happy with to the salesman, a retired local teacher, he intermediately advised us to stick with it. He went back to the manager and came back with a higher prices, "stick with it", to the manager and back again, "stick with it, sold.

In a free market capitalistic system like we all clamor for, isn't any price between MSRP and dealer cost fair to try for? Some carbuyers are so foolish and incompetent as to go into a dealership and just plunk down MSRP. There's also the smart negotiator who does his research and gets a vehicle for the minimum the dealer will sell it for. The MSRP fool shouldn't get the same price as the researcher/negotiations-conscious customer, as he shouldn't be rewarded for being stupid and incompetent.

I think people who call all salesmen rats are just mad that the rats are smarter.

I do all our car shopping online. Bought my truck after getting getting a quote and some emails over a few days which I could live with. Spent 25 minutes dickering over trade value - difference of $500. I certainly found not being in a rush helped me. They kept coming back sweeting the not bad deal. Larger dealership that I had not dealt with before - will go back.

Similarly, got an good online quote for my wifes car. We drove down and bought it an hour later. Very small dealership, she may buy from there again, but it's Chevy only dealership so I'll pass for my vehicle.

For the kids used vehicles I've found a small family dealership that treats you fairly and doesn't sell junk. he earned my business when my daughter in law asked me to check out a used car on his lot for her. I was there the next a.m. and asked him to look it over. He laughed and said he'd already taken it off his website (less than 24 hours listed) as he did his run through and it wasn't up to his standards - off to auction. He prices fair and if you want to dicker it's the price of his warranty - with or without. I can live with that. We bought our middle son an older truck there and have been very pleased. Will go back to him for used vehicle.s

research is the key. know what a car is going for on craigslist, auto trader, blue book, etc and don't waiver more than a few hundred from that. i realize a dealer has to make a living and i don't begrudge them that. i have 3 dealerships i deal with for the dodges, subarus and hondas that i have been buying the past decade or so and i keep them honest by doing my homework. i would never buy a used car from a used car dealer either. you can get a better deal on a used car from a new car dealer because he has already made his money on the sale of a new car to the previous owner and has already lowballed that guy on the trade.

I ordered a new pick up one year back when undercoating was all the rage. I told the dealer to hold off on doing it when it came in so I could decide whether I wanted to do it or not.

When the dealer called to tell me the truck was in, I told him I didn't want it undercoated, but he said they had done it as soon as it came in. OK....

Fast forward 3 or 4 days when I went to pick it up, I made a swing through the shop and asked the mechanic when the truck had been undercoated....."This morning" was the reply.......

Why don't you invest the 6-10 million in a medium car dealership and let me know how that works out for ya!

You could change the market, the whole process, be everyone's hero on this board. It's gotta work, right!? You have it all figured out.

You are an idiot, but that is coming from a whale [bleep], right?

Got my Ford F-150 from the Ford dealership in Ontario, OR, that was the easiest and most open deal I�ve ever seen. The salesman listed the prices for the truck and all the options I wanted and they agreed with Edmonds �invoice� price to the penny. Then he said, �now we add $700, that�s our profit and it�s not negotiable.� But the bottom line price was $14,500 for a $19,500 sticker price truck and that�s the price HE offered without me even saying anything. (Shows how long ago that was!) I�m sure they made more than that $700 with dealer incentives and what not but I don�t hold that against them. The guy didn�t jack me around, he didn�t go �get his manager� or any other BS, so I bought the truck then and there and recommended that dealership and specifically that salesman to anyone who would listen.

I wouldn�t piss on any Larry Miller dealership in Boise if it was on fire. They agree on a price and then come back again and again trying to raise it. My friend has taken a Dodge pickup back there five times to get the heater fixed and it�s never been fixed, and four of those times he drove away and something else was wrong.

I�ve bought a Toyota pickup and two Hondas from Tom Scott dealerships in Nampa and it was easy peasy. I did my homework, came in with an offer, they said okay, we did the deal in five minutes each time.

Can�t remember the name, it�s a �small, home town� dealership in Weiser, ID. The service manager (ex, he quit) that worked there told me those guys were the biggest crooks he ever saw.

I have nothing against a dealer making a profit, they have to stay in business. Big or small dealer, small town or urban, just treat me square, don�t jack me around and I�ll come back for my next vehicle.

Just thinking some more about profit. When I sell a gun at a gun show, I don�t tell the buyer how much I paid for it nor what my profit is, that�s none of his business. We agree on a price we both can live with and that�s that.

Same with a car dealer. I know they get all these hidden profits they don�t tell you about, meeting quotas and whatever else, but that�s their business. I either agree with the price they want or I don�t, my choice.

Tell me what you want for it and that�s that. I will buy it or not.

I went to the �local� Toyota dealer in Ontario and offered a price on a Camry, they said no. I drove over to the Toyota dealer in Boise and offered that same price, they said yes and I bought it. I went back to the local dealer in Ontario and told the salesman what I had paid for it.

�Oh, we could have met that price.� Yeah? Then why the ever lovin� F*CK didn�t you take that when I first offered it to you and instead made me drive all the way to Boise? They blew their one and only chance for a repeat customer then and there. They lost my business forever.

Quit trying to bullsh*t me and give me the run around. That will make me walk away and NEVER come back.

And you wonder why most people hate car dealers. lol

There's a pretty large dealership near here that draws from 2 metro areas. They really don't have salesman. They put the price of each car/truck on a piece of paper in the windshield, that's it. A guy will come out and get a key for it if you want to sit in it or ride around in it. If you want it you pay that price and go in and fill out the paperwork. They've been doing that for almost 20 years. I bought a truck from them in the mid 90's. They had a bunch all alike with the only difference being the color. A friend bought the same exact truck/color combo I did a few months later at another dealership and told me about the great "deal" he got because he knew someone. I paid $9999 for my truck and spent zero time haggling. He spent all day and paid $12,500 for his great deal.

Many-many years ago, I had a car break down on me in eastern Ark. I was on my way home from Illinois for a week. Long story short, I abandoned the old car and hitch-hiked, getting home on a Sat afternoon.

Boss called and needed me back at work Monday morning (good bye week off) and here I was without a vehicle.

Called local dealership owner Sunday morning, explained situation and he said to meet him at the business. Dad and I drove down and met with the fellow, explaining again that I had to leave that day and that I wouldnt be back for at least 2 weeks and maybe 4 weeks. Also explained that I wasnt looking for top of the line vehicle, just a plain truck to get me to work and back.

Owner said to pick out what I wanted and when I got back in La. to come by and sign papers. He carried the vehicle as a loaner on his insurance for 2 weeks, while I worked another hitch in Illinois.

You dont see that kind of service anymore, these days.

Yes, the deal between the salesman/manager and individual is between them.

And I did correct my original statement walking it back a bit.

What frustrates me is when you state clearly what you are interested in, want, don't want etc. and that person looks you right in the eye and says alright. Then within moments ignores the request and goes down a road I just told him I had no desire to travel.

That combined with outright lies tends to turn me off.

I have met a few decent people to deal with in the dealership environment. My BIL being one. He is the sales manager at a small dealership where I grew up. He is one that understands people and deals with them respectfully and decently. No screwing around. No pushy ego-driven crap.

There's also a local mid-sized dealership we deal with occasionally. Decent guys and gals, straightforward, civil and respectful.

Finally, I can assure you that I lose zero sleep worrying whether a salesman or manager is smarter than I am. Not sure I've ever found one of these smart rats you speak of.

Exactly. It can be kind of fun playing with them. When they keep trying to get you to do something that you have already stated you don't want to do, treat them like they may be a little retarded.

Well I work at the biggest used car dealer in town. I am one of five guys and we are our own salesman, sales manager, and finance guy. The owner and GM are very selective on who gets hired and involve us sales guys in the process. There is very little turnover. I get paid a decent six figure salary (non commission) to do what I do and it doesn't include harassing customers. We put the yr, price, and miles on the windshield and stick pretty close to it due to a very modest mark up.

I get the "whats your best price" many times a day. Sometimes I sell it, sometimes I don't but if you are buying from me you have to know if you ask once, you've got it. More times than not after I give my price I hear "well how about this much" and I politely tell them "thats it". It works both ways in this business and I have run into some true scum of the earth on the other side of the table. We try to be fair and respectful and because of that, we get a ton of repeat and referral business. Its a fun job, no two days are the same. I have met a lot of real neat folks and made many new friends from across the table.

Sorry for the long windedness but again, not all stores are the same and if one smells from the start just move on. I couldn't imagine spending tens of thousands of dollars from someone I felt was shifty and dishonest. I would drive 300 miles and spend more, and I have customers that do just that.

I get the same satisfaction when I get some jerkoff who thinks he is smarter than me (i.e. maybe you) come in and be demanding. I am still polite and say either yes or no but this is what I can do. Sometimes they leave but most often they buy after they have gotten over themselves and realize I still have the best offer.

I have ascertained them's the wages of MT, and most of the rest of the West. Fuel costs are a big consideration there. Touring around out there I was struck by how many OLD 4wd Toyotas trucks are still on the road out there.

It just seems that way because the tactics car dealers use have become socially acceptable. Let's put it in a different context by comparing a car sale to a gun sale. Let's say I'm looking to buy a new rifle. One store has it for $1050 another has it for $999 and another for $1200. That's the way the free market works. Depending on supply or demand the $999 store might be sold out and if I don't want to wait or shop around I'll have to buy the higher priced one.

Now if a gun store operated like a used care dealership, they would not tell you the price until they evaluated you to see how much you would pay. They might charge one customer $1050 and the next gullible one $2000. Most people would call a business like that thieves and would refuse to buy from them.

the GF's bro just bought a F-250 from your dealer Lee. He said it was quick and easy. Next time I need a truck, I'm going there. Small town, quick...not like the used explorer I bought this winter from the ford dealer in white bear...

He tried the "that guy is going to test drive it if you don't sign on the line. I said let him buy it, there are 25,000 other explorers for sale within 50 miles of here. Funny....they didn't even "need" to drive that one. It was a good price, but I was in the dealer for over 3 hours.

A few years ago I bought a new 2011 ford f-150. The dealer had a "no haggle" price. All the prices were listed on the net. With the rebates I paid $26K for a brand new F-150. The used 2011's are listed for more than what I paid for the new one.

Sounds about right. I can't believe you've been able to see cars for 20 years with that attitude or reading comprehension.

Maybe you missed the part where he admitted his may not be the right way? Yeah...that's probably it.

I infer from your post that you believe I treated the salesman poorly and have a chip on my shoulder.

Not the case which makes dealing with dealership tactics even worse. I keep things brief. I always explain that I don't have time to waste and don't want to waste their time either. I know what I'm interested in and have very specific questions regarding that vehicle. More often than not, the salesman can't answer most of the basic questions. I don't hold that against them but I am certainly appreciative when I find a salesman who actually knows his product. I contend your last comment is not true in my experience as I always treat every sales person the same, professionally and respectfully and I almost always get the same glib superficial treatment. Mix in a little obfuscation and lies on their part and your contention that treating people the way you want to be treated falls flat on its face.

I never shop for a vehicle without knowing what that vehicle is selling for elsewhere and exactly what I would buy that particular vehicle for. When I ask what your best price is, if it doesn't work for me, I politely say thank you but that's too much for me and move on. Twice I had the sales manager come jump into the conversation and that point. One guy jumped my butt wanting to know why I didn't like their price and held my keys until I told him clearly and succinctly that he had better return my property post-haste. The other sales manager jumped up and blocked the door as I was leaving a dealership in Denver and wanted to know why I wouldn't buy the used vehicle I was looking at. I politely told him it was too much money for me. At which time he proceeded to dicker on the price. Wrong answer. I had explained prior to that that I was on a tight schedule and asked what their best deal was that day. I got an answer and I took them at their word, that was the best price. So the guy lied to me and I'm supposed to accept that and respect that guy for just doing his job?

I have no doubt you have met a lot of lying cheating scum sitting there across the table from you. But I remind you, some of those lying, cheating scum put food on your table and a roof over your head. I too have met a number of lying cheating scum trying to sell a vehicle to me and a few decent guys. Actually a dealership right there in Casper helped me out of a real bind a few years ago and made a simple clean offer to me for a new truck. Didn't need a $40k truck so I politely declined.

If that is not the epitome of a person with a chip on his shoulder, then I don't know what is.

I will add that even though I have had a ton of dirtbag lying customers, in the 9 yrs of selling I have worked with a bunch of real nasty weasel salesman as well. Its too bad that those guys give the rest of us a bad name. I cant count how many times I have had customers come in with a chip on their shoulder from past experiences and leave me with an invite on their boat or use of their property etc.

After reading through this thread, I know who I would buy a truck from and who I wouldn't.

I don't buy anything without a price tag.........Nothing. I don't need you to eye me up to see how much you can get out of me. I also refuse to buy from a car salesman that doesn't cuss.

Commission sales is a phooked up business model.

It can bring out the worst in all people involved. Sales people, sales managers, finance managers, dealership owners, and customers.

That's all I have say about that.

I'd rather take a 5 gallon cold water enema than deal with an auto dealership or salesperson!

I have a question for those in the car sales industry. How do I get to THE GUY in a dealership that will most likely help me avoid the crappy song-and-dance BS we have discussed here? And, who is the best bet to be THE GUY?

In the past, I have asked to speak to the fleet or commercial sales manager with some success.

I agree with the posters suggesting going to smaller dealerships. I had forgotten the last vehicle I purchased at a dealership was done at a small dealership about 150 miles away. I had found the vehicle I wanted over 500 miles away. Happened to see a similar vehicle for sale at the "local" dealership but it was $3,000 more $10k vs $13k. Was bout to buy a plane ticket to Boise because I thought there was no way the "local" dealer could get low enough to compete. On a whim I called them and asked as I always do, "what would you sell the car for today?" He came back and said $9,900. I told him I would be there that afternoon/evening. 3 hours later I had written the check and was driving the 150 miles back home with my "new" work car.

I HATE buying cars and dealers. EVERY SINGLE ONE is a forked tongue bullshitter. Nowadays (and I haven't bought a vehicle in over five years, last one was a Hyundai for my daughter to go to college in 05) I just do my research, get an idea of the price and go from there. When i get to the dealer I ask for the invoice. No invoice of bullshit, I walk..

Yep to all that.. Anyone who thinks a car shopper isn't gonna lie to a salesman is naive to the max..

Amazing how a trade-in bid for "X" dollars comes in with a different battery, different (and much more worn) tires, aftermarket radio replaced with the original crap unit - etc., etc., etc..

It ain't all one way, boys...

One can ask former customers about who they liked/disliked the most.. But what I do, since I was in the biz so long, I usually know the potential customer's needs, character etc., then I call ahead at the dealership to see if (let's say) Neal is still there. If so, I will pair that customer with that salesman..

Makes both persons' task so much easier.. The customer appreciates that salesman's personality, and the salesman more than appreciates the referral - and they do their damnedest to ensure things go well.. I've never had a problem doing it that way for other folks..

Good to hear.. Didja note all the trucks they have on that lot!!! I asked Jim one time how many they had; seemed to be around 50.. He checked inventory and replied, "Eighty-eight F-150s"..

Yowza... And this is in a town of about 3K residents...

Andy Lamb, the owner, is about as nice a guy to deal with as any I've known..

Hate is a pretty strong emotion man. When I sold new cars a customer with a attitude like this usually was the one we knew would leave mad even if he got what he wanted right away. Those surveys got lost. You print off invoice directly off of the dealer network site and he still thinks you're lying because "thats not what KBB says". Of course because the customer is never wrong, you bite your tounge when you see they printed off an invoice for a base model or something of lesser value. You sir just make life a bit more miserable for yourself going into it with an attitude like this. Now I know that you hate me already and believe I'm a "forked tongue bullshitter" without ever meeting or doing business with me. Of course I wont be losing any sleep over it but it sounds like you might have a bit of an inferiority complex to me.

BTW please explain to me why it is that someone who invests millions into buying a dealership, hires 10-200+ tax paying Americans, shouldn't be able to make a profit.

Redneck,

Where is the dealership you recommend? You can post here or PM me. I have no difficulty traveling to purchase the vehicle I want if they have it.



You just hit on one of my real pet peeves. I don't know how many times I have heard the used car manager appraise a vehicle say that an $1,800 custom grill guard has no bearing on the value. That a high-end aftermarket radio has no bearing on the trade-in value. The fact that the vehicle has custom $500 seat covers have no bearing on value. That brand new tires have no bearing on trade-in value. And these same people just finished trying to sell me a used vehicle and they hyped the high-end stereo on the used vehicle I was looking at or a custom grill guard etc. The hypocrisy is just comical.

Let me explain why people hate dealers. It's not a matter of making a profit. It's a matter of how much, and how much that varies between customers buying the same vehicle. It's because dealers take advantage of uninformed people, making thousands more from anyone they can take advantage of.

Your logic is flawed here. The manufacturer sets a price, MSRP, and sets the dealers price,invoice. Explain why a dealership, or any other business in this world, should not ask for the MSRP of any given product. It may not mean they are going to get it, but why not ask for it? I'm just not sure why its considered taking advantage of someone to sell them a product at asking price. This is done every day, in almost every store in America. When I sold new Toyotas, there was less than 10% markup (most vehicles 3-5%)from invoice. Granted we are talking much bigger numbers than your daily purchases, but the same basic priciples apply. I bought a Leopold vx2 3x9 last yr on clearance for $175, marked down from $309. I should have given that place a piece of my mind for giving me that deal and not everybody I guess.

I don't quite agree with this.

But what I do see that really bothers me is how dealers/salesmen treat people buying used cars. That is where I have seen some real problems. My sister has worked in dealerships for years. Handling all the accounting, paperwork etc for large to small dealerships for the past 25 years. When she was working for a dealership in Columbus, there was another dealer there on the east side of town. At the time, it was one of the largest, if not the largest dealership in the country.

A lady came in to the dealership where my sister worked. The big dealership had sold her a car to her for her kid to drive to college. It was a small car, something like an escort. It had a clutch but had an automatic transmission. They told her the clutch was a foot rest. She didn't know any better and they had no problem taking absolute advantage of her. Now, you can imagine if she didn't understand that the car had had its transmission replaced with an auto, that she wasn't very flush with money. When she had troubles with the car, the big dealership was of little help to her.

This aspect of the car sales industry is one of the things that really rots my shorts.

Internet, internet manager or fleet sales is the way to go.

Be willing to travel and travel far.

Lot of dealers will sell and ship a vehicle to you. Friend bought and F350 loaded out of Texas and it was shipped for $1500.00 I think.

I went internet manager route. Did the deal on the phone, took my first offer no questions asked. He and my credit union did their thing. I think the phone sales took about 2 hours. I drove up the next day with a check and was out the door in an hour.

I live in a small town that sells the big 3 and the exact opposite is here. You cannot deal with these guys. I drove 2 hours to the big city and saved a ton.

Take a Midol Ace, "hate" is just one of those words semi-intelligent people can pick up on the level implied. Profit? I have ZERO issues with profit, but I do have issues when EVERY SINGLE car salesman I've dealt with NEVER gives you a straight answer on price, then when you haggle the price, he gives you the "oh I have to check with my manager" bullshit when you know all he's doing is going for a smoke or to take a leak. Then insults one's intelligence with a ridiculous trade in price and that's just for starters. Then IF you buy the car, he tries to sell you all sort of crap like leather protectant or a "register" for your T-Tops (when the "register" number's already there as is the protectant for an outrageous price.
If I ask for the DEALER INVOICE and he shows it to me then we go from there, but any IDIOT knows the invoice's not the bottom line. Last year I went with a certifed check for FIFTY GRAND to a Nissan Dealer wanting to buy a full up Armada to show them I was serious. IT was one long, tiring process, not the least of which was insulting me on the trade in. When I got them down to what I wanted and they pulled all that "let me talk to the manager" bullshit, I said "no thanks".

There's a reason car dealers are somewhere south of democrap politicians....

Expecting a high trade value on your old car AND a low price on the new vehicle, is a recipe for being disappointed. They gotta make a buck somewhere. If you have to get top dollar for your trade, be prepared to do what it takes to sell it yourself.

As with everything else, one's gotta do their homework.
* Buying = getting quotes from dealers to get the lie of the land.
* Selling = KBB, Edmunds, + local Craigslist to see what dealers are offering, vs. what the cars are actually bringing on the open market

Once you've found the numbers where you'll make a deal (or walk), go to the dealer & do it.

As an aside, I've always wondered what would happen if I told the salesperson, "I want to buy this car now. Get your sales manager in here so we can do this."

FC

WOW, I'm impressed with your extensive insider knowledge of the car business. Please continue to impress me with insults as well, I am sure to respond accordingly. Good luck with your car buying. You get yourself so worked up next time around is apt to bring on an aneurysm. Man some folks just make it so much harder than it needs to be.

Here are a couple of hints for your health:

Internets sales (may save YOUR life)

If you need face to face confrontation (seems this way), ask to speak with the top salesman. Usually they have been there the longest and don't need to have their hands held by a manager. Sales is a numbers game, sell more cars, make more money. Especially with dealships that have bonus programs for numbers rather than pure commission sales.

When you go to the store, dont be an ass and get all demanding. Buying gets a bit harder for you. I've sold thousands of cars and its a lot easier to not make any money to support my family when the customer is a least nice about it.

If you want to be next level, call ahead and pretend to be asking for a sales job. Find out how the guys get paid, commission only or bonus programs based on volume sales.


FWIW, I dont sell new anymore. I work at a very reputable used car dealership. We mark our prices, miles, and year right on the windshield. We dont go on the lot and UP customers. They come in to the store, we give them keys to whatever they want to look at. They come in, make an offer, I say yes or no or this is what I can do. I sign you up, and you leave with your car. No manager, just me. If something breaks in a reasonable amount of time after you have bought, we usually fix it at no charge (providing the customer wasn't out jumping curbs).

I was primarily speaking about used cars at big dealerships. I've had too many to count try to rip me off. I've had one salesman swear $9900 was the absolute lowest he could sale the car for when it was advertised on the web for $7000. I never mentioned the web price. I called the internet manager an hour later and bought it for $6000. I've had a salesman drop the price $4000 when I started walking. I know there is profit margin but anyone who tries to steal $4000 from me because I look gullible is just a thief. I've has dealers during closing write up the papers $2000 more than we agreed on and swear they misunderstood when I called them on it.

Not stealing and not a thief, just wants to get paid. You called him to the mat and left with the car, good on you. Now in defense of the salesman, quite frequently they dont mind dropping the price and make a quick sale. Overzealous managers that demand the salesman bring out a minimum of 3 quotes before getting the deal is obnoxious.

Car sales is no different than anything else. I was an electrician for 7 yrs and the markup in materials and labor could have qualified as theft for sure.

Call it whatever makes you happy but anyone in any business that charges $4000 more than what is needed to make a decent profit is a thief. Car dealers certainly don't have a monopoly on theft.

I believe we have found common ground.

Regardless of how good a deal you think you got, the dealer made money.

Yes, and even then percentage plays a huge part. There is a big difference in selling a $6000 auto for $10,000 to a rube, than making $4000 on a $400,000 deal.

New cars the % is pretty low on most brands. Used is whatever the market will bear. If a store buys a car cheap at auction, runs it through a shop and detail they usually will price it at retail book. Regardless at what they bought it for. Whether thats shady or not is not for me to decide, but they do it because customers ALWAYS want a discount. If they priced it at trade book with $800 markup, a customer would still want a 3K discount.

Also, with a $400k real estate deal, you're looking at forking out $24k in commissions. I dont know of anybody making 1% on the sale of their goods or services.

River Valley Ford in Baldwin, WI..

They have to - or else close the doors.. Simple as that..

Always amazes me though - buyers demanding to pay $100 over invoice for a $60,000 vehicle.. So, you DO have an issue with profit..? Going in the door with "X" dollars to buy "X" vehicle, is an attitude that says, " It will be I that dictates your profit.. "

And you can't figure out why some dealers give you an attitude back??

Huh... How strange...

Of COURSE I have no issues with profit, but if you think that if a dealer's not making any money by selling even at invoice or below, you're delusional.One more thought on the skullduggery of auto sales. My daughter who is a nurse went to trade in her Elantra (that I bought for hee NEW in 08). Went by herself then fortunately called me before she bought. Why is it that after a few minutes I was able to knock of three grand from what they were going to sell her to it for? Naturally, we walked out.

The last couple new cars I purchased, I just dealt with the internet sales manager by e-mail and phone. I did this with a couple dealers to negotiate the best price. I was in and out of the dealer within an hour when picking up the car. You have to be prepared to walk out if they try any BS.

Keep in mind, sir, that I worked in dealers from Nov/'82- Feb/'98.. The only money the dealer makes at invoice is called 'holdback'.. And THAT has been shrinking steadily over the last few years.. Trucks? Yeah, they can make a bit on invoice.. Hyundais? Nope - I was AT a Hyundai dealer for 5 of those years.. The holdback, even then, was about $350-400 depending on type.. Naturally.. That difference you stated was only on the value of the trade-in.

So, you got 3 grand off and STILL didn't buy the car... Profit is EVERYTHING to you sir, and you've now stated yourself..


Dealers have to make a profit - both on the new car and any trade-in that comes in.. Keep in mind the vast majority of trade-ins come in will need work.. The term used is "how far is it away?", meaning, how much money will have to be put into the trade-in to have it ready for sale... I.e., will it need brakes, will it need a battery, will it need a full detail, will it need (and most all do this anyway) a full service - (oil change, oil/air/cabin filters) trans service, yada yada yada.. You think all that's free? Plus, many states have laws that dictate a trade-in cannot be sold until it's gone through a lengthy inspection process and any/all items found to be off on that inspection must be repaired..

These are true costs that must be added to the trade-in figure before it hits the lot.. OUT of any profit then comes the salesman's commission, expenses for storage (used cars don't always sell within 30 days, therefore expense accrual occurs - what if that car's still there after one year?? Usually that's because it came in at the wrong price and/or had to have extensive repairs that raised it's cost above what the market will bear.. Trade-ins are a crap shoot..

Maybe your daughter should have asked you to sell it outright for her.. Then you won't have to worry about all those little laws and "excess" dealer profit.. Then you can take out ads, sit by the phone and wait for the buyer with cash to come along and take it off your hands..

But you lose time (which = money) and you lose the sales tax that could have been saved by trading.. Your choice..

Yeah I know the hose you on your trade in angle. When I go in and they ask, I always say "I have no trade in" then when they highball me (as they always do) on their first pitch and I say well, that's too much but how about if I trade in this vehicle, then the game begins all over again. Oh and I got a much better deal at the next dealership because the bullshit factor was way less. Another thing that pissed me off about the first dealer is they asked my daughter for her DL to run a credit check which is total bullshit. That puts a downtick on your credit and they have no business doing that until AFTER a deal is reached and IF they are going to be involved in the financing, which was not the case as my daughter had a pre-approved loan.

What amazes me is a new F250 is sniffing $60k. I'd LOVE to have one with the new diesel but I just can't justify it. Or afford it for that matter.

So, you lied to 'em right off the bat?

And they say dealers are unscrupulous...

Heck, I saw an F-150 on their lot that was over $58K...

Just for S&G I priced out a new F-450 to match my current truck..

Over $64K... YIKES!!!

But look at it this way - yeah, that diesel's a spendy option, but come trade-in or sale time, you'll get MOST of that back.. HD gas trucks don't hold the value nearly like the diesels do..

Just remembered the above part..

Just a DL can't be used for a credit check.. She would have had to put a signature on an app along with her SSN.. Dealers will nearly always ask to hold a DL during any test drive etc., to ensure the car will come back and/or to ensure it's valid so the person is legal to drive.. Much of that comes from the dealers' insurance company..

As far as any 'pre-approved' loan is concerned, I've had customers with those come into my office to buy a car and I could, at times, show them on paper what that loan they have is really costing them compared to what I may have to offer from the dealer.. You'd be surprised how dealer financing can, at times, but much more beneficial than an outside loan..

One guy I had in was an accountant at 3M in MN.. He was going to borrow funds from his 401K to pay for the car - said his HR person told him he'd save money since he's 'paying himself back'.. I nearly LMAO.. I showed him, ON PAPER, what that was going to cost him vs. a loan from the dealer.. And since he was an accountant, I asked him if I was right or wrong.. He looked at everything and said, "you're right - I'm not taking bux outta the 401K."


But I'm sure you wouldn't want your daughter to save any money, right? I mean, after all, that dealer might make another C-note - even though they may be able to save your daughter several hundred dollars, or more, through them..

Think about it...

You are correct on the loans from dealers. They do offer very good deals sometimes and when they do, we take them up on it. As far as the DL is concerned, I WATCHED them do it. Take a DL and go right to the computer and do it. Lying? no, just pre-empting THEIR bullshit about cutting you a good deal by merely hosing people on the trade in. The bottom line is that I dislike immensely having to haggle like an arab rug dealer to buy a car and all the aforementioned bullshit I posted previously about "upholstery protection" and "T-Top Registry" (when they already are and they try and stick you with a 500 dollar charge for that nonsense), is tiresome.