http://news.yahoo.com/snake-bite-89000-162515519.htmlA snakebite victim who was treated at a North Carolina hospital came away with more than just fang marks when he received an $89,227 bill for an 18-hour stay.
Eric Ferguson, 54, from Mooresville, N.C., was taking out the trash at his home last August when he was bitten on the foot by a snake. He drove himself to Lake Norman Regional Medical Center, where he was treated with anti-venom medicine.
According to his bill, the hospital charged $81,000 for a four-vial dose of the medication.
Shocked at the price tag, Ferguson told the Charlotte Observer he and his wife found the same vials online for retail prices as low as $750.
Ferguson, who is insured, said his care was "beyond phenomenal."
"It was just the sticker shock," he said.
Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay.
The hospital defended its prices, saying it has to charge prices higher than retail because of the various discounts it is required to give insurers.
"We are required to give Medicare one level of discount from list price, Medicaid another, and private insurers negotiate for still others," officials told the newspaper. "If we did not start with the list prices we have, we would not end up with enough revenue to remain in operation."
The hospital added: "Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients."
The Fergusons' case is, of course, not unique. A 2013 cover story by Steven Brill in Time magazine ("Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us") detailed the "outrageous pricing and egregious profits" destroying the U.S. health care system, noting that Americans were expected to spend an estimated $2.8 trillion on health care last year.
Ferguson told the Charlotte Observer he and his wife found the same vials online for retail prices as low as $750.
Thats the route they should have went. Even with fed ex overnight shipping; it would have been much cheaper.
I wonder who inisted on going to the hospital, his wife, or the guy that got bit?
Ferguson told the Charlotte Observer he and his wife found the same vials online for retail prices as low as $750.
Thats the route they should have went. Even with fed ex overnight shipping; it would have been much cheaper.
I wonder who inisted on going to the hospital, his wife, or the guy that got bit?
Funny. This is what wrought O Care. The trouble is O Care is just the same old government [bleep] brought to you by people who can't tie their own shoes and focused on lining the pockets of people who don't need another country to own.
Was there any mention of the snakes type?
My late wife had 4 chemo treatments. The stuff was $12k/dose plus $3k for installation.
plus $3k for installation.
You'd think if a person can smoke pot for pain, without a doctor; the same person could administer chemo to themselves. Just google it.
Was there any mention of the snakes type?
The picture was of a Copperhead. I think Copperhead bites are the most common venomous snakebites treated in the US, but I could be mistaken.
#1 there is a hell of alot of chit done to you in the hospital when you get bit by a snake....generally your gonna have the complete attention of atleast a half dozen individuals cause chit happens fast and its pretty specialized treatment, hell only a handful of docs in the US are truly knowledgeable in treating snake bites
on the cost of the antivenin, the hospital also has to take into consideration all the antivenin it has purchased in the past that they had to toss out cause of passed its expiration date.....plus $750 sounds WAY low for CroFab, thats prolly for stuff near its expiration date....it should be closer to $2,000 for new production....the old Wyeth serum was cheap but it also had a hell of alot of side effects and complications with it....what you saved on serum wasnt worth it....not to mention if the hospital didnt have it in stock it costs to bring it in quick....
ive said before on other threads, while i aint big on killing snakes if you dont know what you are doing just kill any venomous ones that are near your house....if you try and move them and [bleep] up and get bit your likely looking at $100,000 in doctor bills......
#1 there is a hell of alot of chit done to you in the hospital when you get bit by a snake....generally your gonna have the complete attention of atleast a half dozen individuals cause chit happens fast and its pretty specialized treatment, hell only a handful of docs in the US are truly knowledgeable in treating snake bites
on the cost of the antivenin, the hospital also has to take into consideration all the antivenin it has purchased in the past that they had to toss out cause of passed its expiration date.....plus $750 sounds WAY low for CroFab, thats prolly for stuff near its expiration date....it should be closer to $2,000 for new production....the old Wyeth serum was cheap but it also had a hell of alot of side effects and complications with it....what you saved on serum wasnt worth it....not to mention if the hospital didnt have it in stock it costs to bring it in quick....
ive said before on other threads, while i aint big on killing snakes if you dont know what you are doing just kill any venomous ones that are near your house....if you try and move them and [bleep] up and get bit your likely looking at $100,000 in doctor bills......
Nearly $100k for a snakebite treatment is extreme any way you look at it.
Nearly $100k for a snakebite treatment is extreme any way you look at it.
In a life or death moment, how much is too much?
The hospital is probably going to accept the $20,000 as payment, claim the balance of $69,000 as noncollectable, all the while making probably close to $15,000, and knowing the guy got bit by a rat snake.
#1 there is a hell of alot of chit done to you in the hospital when you get bit by a snake....generally your gonna have the complete attention of atleast a half dozen individuals cause chit happens fast and its pretty specialized treatment, hell only a handful of docs in the US are truly knowledgeable in treating snake bites
on the cost of the antivenin, the hospital also has to take into consideration all the antivenin it has purchased in the past that they had to toss out cause of passed its expiration date.....plus $750 sounds WAY low for CroFab, thats prolly for stuff near its expiration date....it should be closer to $2,000 for new production....the old Wyeth serum was cheap but it also had a hell of alot of side effects and complications with it....what you saved on serum wasnt worth it....not to mention if the hospital didnt have it in stock it costs to bring it in quick....
ive said before on other threads, while i aint big on killing snakes if you dont know what you are doing just kill any venomous ones that are near your house....if you try and move them and [bleep] up and get bit your likely looking at $100,000 in doctor bills......
Nearly $100k for a snakebite treatment is extreme any way you look at it.
this aint going in for a flu shot....your looking at cardiac, respiratory, clotting and a whole host of other issues.....except for a hand full of species you are fighting against a cocktail of chemicals made to do 2 things VERY well, destroy tissue in preparation for digestion and to kill....what is your hand or leg worth to you? your life?
the average adult can survive a copperhead bite with no antivenin provided they have good antibiotics....your gonna loose tissue but you aint likely to die....an eastern diamond back bites you and you are going to have the undevided attention of a half to full dozen medical staff for atleast 12 hours and that aint cheap....
#1 there is a hell of alot of chit done to you in the hospital when you get bit by a snake....generally your gonna have the complete attention of atleast a half dozen individuals cause chit happens fast and its pretty specialized treatment, hell only a handful of docs in the US are truly knowledgeable in treating snake bites
on the cost of the antivenin, the hospital also has to take into consideration all the antivenin it has purchased in the past that they had to toss out cause of passed its expiration date.....plus $750 sounds WAY low for CroFab, thats prolly for stuff near its expiration date....it should be closer to $2,000 for new production....the old Wyeth serum was cheap but it also had a hell of alot of side effects and complications with it....what you saved on serum wasnt worth it....not to mention if the hospital didnt have it in stock it costs to bring it in quick....
ive said before on other threads, while i aint big on killing snakes if you dont know what you are doing just kill any venomous ones that are near your house....if you try and move them and [bleep] up and get bit your likely looking at $100,000 in doctor bills......
Nearly $100k for a snakebite treatment is extreme any way you look at it.
this aint going in for a flu shot....your looking at cardiac, respiratory, clotting and a whole host of other issues.....except for a hand full of species you are fighting against a cocktail of chemicals made to do 2 things VERY well, destroy tissue in preparation for digestion and to kill....what is your hand or leg worth to you? your life?
the average adult can survive a copperhead bite with no antivenin provided they have good antibiotics....your gonna loose tissue but you aint likely to die....an eastern diamond back bites you and you are going to have the undevided attention of a half to full dozen medical staff for atleast 12 hours and that aint cheap....
Son, my mama used to say of folks like you that "you'd argue with a signpost and then knock it down for not arguing back,". You really don't get it. I hope you're not in great pain today. Have a good one.
Unless you are very old, very young, or have an allergic reaction to it Copperhead venom usually isn't a life or death situation. Tissue damage isn't extreme either in most cases.
Water-Moccasin or rattler would be quite different.
In the end though, what's your life worth?
The hospital is probably going to accept the $20,000 as payment, claim the balance of $69,000 as noncollectable, all the while making probably close to $15,000, and knowing the guy got bit by a rat snake.
And you and any other patient with money is going to pay the balance.
I've been popped twice my Mr. Copper, one pretty much dry the other definently not.
Not fun, but not life threatening.
The sad reality of our healthcare system is that it does NOT operate under free market principles, hospitals do NOT list the prices they will charge.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/mone...lth-costs-wide-differences-locally_n.htmWASHINGTON � Patients pay as much as 683% more for the same medical procedures, such as MRIs or CT scans, in the same town, depending on which doctor they choose, according to a study by a national health care group.
But if a patient does not know how much a procedure costs, he or she gets stuck with the remainder of the bill if it goes above that average price.
"It helps the small business," McClure said, "but the consumer's left out in the cold."
Providers, he said, often don't know real costs, either. When asked by patients for the cost of a procedure, providers often say they need to check with the insurer. The patient only learns the real cost when the bill arrives, McClure said. Legal reasons often prevent providers from discussing cost differences.
Ferguson told the Charlotte Observer he and his wife found the same vials online for retail prices as low as $750.
Thats the route they should have went. Even with fed ex overnight shipping; it would have been much cheaper.
I wonder who inisted on going to the hospital, his wife, or the guy that got bit?
I'm quite sure what they found on the internet was not the same thing they received at the hospital. We don't stock CroFab as it's too expensive. There is a hospital close that has it so we send our snakebite patients there.
The sad reality of our healthcare system is that it does NOT operate under a free market principles, hospitals don't list the prices they will charge.
I could not agree more.
why snake bites cost so much
average bite on the skin side doesnt look like much is happening but underneath tissue is being lost.....each line is the new extent of venom travel destroying tissue, each line is roughly 15 minutes from a small fairly non dangerous US species:
![[Linked Image]](http://www.sptimes.com/2002/07/19/photos/pt-snakebite.jpg)
bad ones(takes a fair bit of expertise to make this back right and this result is actually fairly common with US snake bites though deaths are rare, and deaths are rare because of our high dollar treatment)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.rattlesnakebite.org/Picture2big.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://gothunts.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/rattlesnake-bite-10.jpg)
The sad reality of our healthcare system is that it does NOT operate under a free market principles, hospitals don't list the prices they will charge.
I could not agree more.
Absolutely.
It will continue to be this way unless .gov gets out of the medical business.
There is NO way I"d be in a business where .gov says... look, since its me paying, I'll only pay you 10% or whatever of what you charge.
Doesn't take a fool in the business to realize he is going to have to charge a hell of a lot, since its going to be cut drastically, to then be able to pay for what the real bill is.
I don't enjoy the high costs either... but you have to realize, medical is just like paying the fire department, whether they have a fire or not, they have to be there 24/7. And there is no way around that unless you don't want the "coverage"
It will continue to be this way unless .gov gets out of the medical business.
There is NO way I"d be in a business where .gov says... look, since its me paying, I'll only pay you 10% or whatever of what you charge.
Doesn't take a fool in the business to realize he is going to have to charge a hell of a lot, since its going to be cut drastically, to then be able to pay for what the real bill is.
I don't enjoy the high costs either... but you have to realize, medical is just like paying the fire department, whether they have a fire or not, they have to be there 24/7. And there is no way around that unless you don't want the "coverage"
The government definitely needs to get out of it because they are totally incompetent and even when they manage to get something done they are the most inefficient way of accomplishing that thing that anybody could imagine. That said, you have perfect examples right here of the mindset that has allowed the costs to escalate the way they have. You have people who swallow the bullshit about costs, hook, line and sinker. Then you have the others about "how much is your life worth?". When you go there you'll accept huge monetary charges and that is one of the big things that has ruined our healthcare system. It's another aspect of the low information voter.
"Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay.
The hospital defended its prices, saying it has to charge prices higher than retail because of the various discounts it is required to give insurers."
-------------------------------------------------------------
The problem here was not ObamaCare. i.e the Affordable Care Act, he had p[rivate insurancde company coverage. It wasn't even Medicare or Medicaid. The problem was private insurance companies demand a discounted price or they will approve the provider (hospital, clinic or MD)for reimbursement from the plan. These are the same companies who will be providing care under the Affordable Care Act. Argue if you will that the care is not affordable But it was and will continue to be provided/paid for by private insuranace companies.
So, thinking of alternatives . . . what did our forefathers do back in the 19th Century when they were bit by Copperheads or Rattlers?
For the love of God, give the viewers a warning.
So, thinking of alternatives . . . what did our forefathers do back in the 19th Century when they were bit by Copperheads or Rattlers?
lost a lot of appendages.....
I'm rather disappointed. Where are the "If you don't want to pay it, no one is making you go," "If you don't like it, start your own hospital," "What's wrong with charging as much as you can?" responses. The Campfire is definitely slipping.
Anti-venom costs have gone insane. There are many more stories about this same type of cost related with anti-venom for snakebites now.
I'm rather disappointed. Where are the "If you don't want to pay it, no one is making you go," "If you don't like it, start your own hospital," "What's wrong with charging as much as you can?" responses. The Campfire is definitely slipping.
Ever since the 22 ammo shortage...
So, thinking of alternatives . . . what did our forefathers do back in the 19th Century when they were bit by Copperheads or Rattlers?
lost a lot of appendages.....
this....if your curious just look at Africa or Asia....lot of people missing lower legs due to snake bite.....hands aswell due to harvesting veggies in snake infested fields....we used to have a fair number die but due to outstanding and quick medical treatment of the 7,000 plus bites a year maybe 5 are fatal.....used to be alot higher, bites from northern Pacifics, mohave greens and coral snakes were mostly fatal before ventilators.....
Anti-venom costs have gone insane. There are many more stories about this same type of cost related with anti-venom for snakebites now.
thats cause we now actually have antivenin thats worth a chit....the old cheap Wyeth also came with a laundry list of side effects in alot of cases the antivenin was more dangerous than the original bite because allergies to it were common.....the new CroFab is more expensive but it also works better and has much reduced side effects, allergies to it are pretty uncommon....
I worked in or with .gov all of my employed life. Trust me, you can't fathom the width and depth or density of .gov stupidity and total conviction that only they can tell time on a digital clock. IF they had common sense, or were allowed to exercise any degree of it, their massive volumes of detailed employee work rule books wouldn't be required. NOTHING is too screwed up or be as expensive or happen so slowly it can't be made worse when .gov "fixes" anything.
Letting politicians and their bureaurcrat unionized drones run our health insurance has been, is and will remain a costly disaster for the public but you can safely bet your home and bank account that they WILL take very good care of themselves.
I worked in or with .gov all of my employed life. Trust me, you can't fathom the width and depth or density of .gov stupidity and total conviction that only they can tell time on a digital clock. IF they had common sense, or were allowed to exercise any degree of it, their massive volumes of detailed employee work rule books wouldn't be required. NOTHING is too screwed up or be as expensive or happen so slowly it can't be made worse when .gov "fixes" anything.
Letting politicians and their bureaurcrat unionized drones run our health insurance has been, is and will remain a costly disaster for the public but you can safely bet your home and bank account that they WILL take very good care of themselves.
If you can't afford it don't use the service. He was more than welcome to not go and stay home.
Not to mention the cost of filing everything in duplicate.
If you can't afford it don't use the service. He was more than welcome to not go and stay home.
Finally! My faith is somewhat restored.
"Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay.
The hospital defended its prices, saying it has to charge prices higher than retail because of the various discounts it is required to give insurers."
-------------------------------------------------------------
The problem here was not ObamaCare. i.e the Affordable Care Act, he had p[rivate insurancde company coverage. It wasn't even Medicare or Medicaid. The problem was private insurance companies demand a discounted price or they will approve the provider (hospital, clinic or MD)for reimbursement from the plan. These are the same companies who will be providing care under the Affordable Care Act. Argue if you will that the care is not affordable But it was and will continue to be provided/paid for by private insuranace companies.
If you think insurance companies get a discount, you ought to see what a discount Medicare/Medicaid get. It's way bigger and is a problem that is also made up on private patients. Income redistribution at work.
The biggest problem with what healthcare charges is most people don't have a clue what they are being charged for. They have no idea how many people are behind the scenes that they never see.
Want to talk cost of drugs. Fine. Our inpatient pharmacy operates 24/7. To cover every shift, every day requires a lot of pharmacists and technicians. To have the drugs on the shelves when you need them requires several people who only work supply. Unfortunately, all those people need management and their support. Oh yeah, those drugs have to be in stock in sufficient amounts. It's not a small amount in inventory that is there just in case that never gets used, but it has to be there just the same. How much mark up has to be made just to break even? It's not a little.
Now, that pharmacy has bills whether we have patients or not. Equipment, cleaning staff, utilities. It's not free. Same goes for every department in the hospital. You may see one nurse, but there are many people behind her that are required for her to give you treatment. The hospital overall has to have admin and HR plus all the costs of providing them a place to work. All those people have to be there whether we see one patient or 100.
Doctors? They certainly don't come for free and you may encounter several along the way.
If your hospital bill had a breakdown of everything you were paying for you would never finish reading it. You see three people while you're in but don't see the other 50 that are there making sure you can be taken care of. You certainly don't see all the millions of dollars worth of equipment that is there just so you can be taken care of.
Then factor in all the people we have to take care of that we know we won't cover expenses. How many businesses are required to sell products below cost or just give them away?
Of course, some of you just want to bitch and don't really want to know what's going on, so bitch away.
If you can't afford it don't use the service. He was more than welcome to not go and stay home.
I think the point Ethan was making had to do with market distortions in the price of medical care resulting from government interference at multiple levels, including government's long term partnership with the insurance companies. In other words, what we're seeing are not natural market prices for these services, but a gross distortion of them whereby absurd profits are being made that wouldn't be supported by anything like a free market in medical care.
plus $3k for installation.
You'd think if a person can smoke pot for pain, without a doctor; the same person could administer chemo to themselves. Just google it.
According to the American Cancer Society (see:
http://www.cancer.org/treatment/tre...otherapy-principles-types-of-chemo-drugs ", there is a large number of different chemotherapy drugs. Which one and in what dose should the cancer victim use? If you know, I assume your avocation must be oncology; will you help other members of the 'fire select the proper drug and dosage and what will you charge?
The biggest problem with what healthcare charges is most people don't have a clue what they are being charged for. They have no idea how many people are behind the scenes that they never see.
Want to talk cost of drugs. Fine. Our inpatient pharmacy operates 24/7. To cover every shift, every day requires a lot of pharmacists and technicians. To have the drugs on the shelves when you need them requires several people who only work supply. Unfortunately, all those people need management and their support. Oh yeah, those drugs have to be in stock in sufficient amounts. It's not a small amount in inventory that is there just in case that never gets used, but it has to be there just the same. How much mark up has to be made just to break even? It's not a little.
Now, that pharmacy has bills whether we have patients or not. Equipment, cleaning staff, utilities. It's not free. Same goes for every department in the hospital. You may see one nurse, but there are many people behind her that are required for her to give you treatment. The hospital overall has to have admin and HR plus all the costs of providing them a place to work. All those people have to be there whether we see one patient or 100.
Doctors? They certainly don't come for free and you may encounter several along the way.
If your hospital bill had a breakdown of everything you were paying for you would never finish reading it. You see three people while you're in but don't see the other 50 that are there making sure you can be taken care of. You certainly don't see all the millions of dollars worth of equipment that is there just so you can be taken care of.
Then factor in all the people we have to take care of that we know we won't cover expenses. How many businesses are required to sell products below cost or just give them away?
Of course, some of you just want to bitch and don't really want to know what's going on, so bitch away.
Sorry but to put it succinctly, horseshit.
I'd love to know your qualifications for knowing one single thing about health care. I have over 20 years experience in it. Post yours up. Would certainly like to know.
will you help other members of the 'fire select the proper drug and dosage and what will you charge?
of course I will, and liberals are free of charge.
I'd love to know your qualifications for knowing one single thing about health care. I have over 20 years experience in it. Post yours up. Would certainly like to know.
Paying for it as opposed to being a parasite.
Paying for it has nothing to do with knowledge. You know how the auto industry works just because you have a car?
So, in other words you know nothing. just like to bitch. Well, bitch on if it makes you feel better.
I'd love to know your qualifications for knowing one single thing about health care. I have over 20 years experience in it. Post yours up. Would certainly like to know.
Nobody needs healthcare experience to know they're getting it up the tail. All one needs to see is the lifestyle of those in the healthcare industry and its easy to understand. Everybody in the industry make a very good living off a flippin ransom from unfortunate situations. It is complete horseshit. Its like getting abill for 600 bucks from some azzhole declaring your father dead when you saw with your own eyes he was dead when they hauled him out with a sheet over his head. That happened to my best friend. Broken system because of greed. PERIOD!
Damn a snake. And a Democrat, but I repeat myself....
I'd love to know your qualifications for knowing one single thing about health care. I have over 20 years experience in it. Post yours up. Would certainly like to know.
Nobody needs healthcare experience to know they're getting it up the tail. All one needs to see is the lifestyle of those in the healthcare industry and its easy to understand. Everybody in the industry make a very good living off a flippin ransom from unfortunate situations. It is complete horseshit. Its like getting abill for 600 bucks from some azzhole declaring your father dead when you saw with your own eyes he was dead when they hauled him out with a sheet over his head. That happened to my best friend. Broken system because of greed. PERIOD!
Who are these rich people you speak of? Really? Go down to your local hospital and find one. All the hospitals I've worked for barely met budget. As a pharmacist, I make less working for a hospital than I would a retail store.
People bitch and complain about freeloaders in our society, but when it comes to healthcare they want to be one themselves.
As a pharmacist, I make less working for a hospital than I would a retail store.
So you're one of those guys charging a hundred bucks for two Tylenols, then.
As a pharmacist, I make less working for a hospital than I would a retail store.
So you're one of those guys charging a hundred bucks for two Tylenols, then.
No. The hospital sets the prices. Drug billing is one of the few areas a hospital is able to recoup the expense of doing business. I'd try to explain, but doubt you'll listen anymore than others here. Everyone wants the best healthcare possible, they just think it should be free. Never mind that a hospital has to employee hundreds of employees and have many millions of dollars worth of equipment to see one single patient.
As a pharmacist, I make less working for a hospital than I would a retail store.
So you're one of those guys charging a hundred bucks for two Tylenols, then.
and you are one of the people responsible for wasting the Earth's supply of oxygen......I'll side with Kodiakisland
Everyone wants the best healthcare possible, they just think it should be free.
Nonsense. Its prices should be products of the free market, which they are not. No way a free market would support anything like the prices charged by hospitals in the US.
Everyone wants the best healthcare possible, they just think it should be free.
Nonsense. Its prices should be products of the free market, which they are not. No way a free market would support anything like the prices charged by hospitals in the US.
And you base that on what?
Wouldn't I be making more working for the hospital instead of less? I guess you can just ignore the things that don't support your "theories".
Granted, I think we could do with less oversight and lower gov standards, but I'm not sure that would always be a positive thing when it comes to your healthcare. I certainly don't like Medicaid and medicare paying less than actual cost either.
Everyone wants the best healthcare possible, they just think it should be free.
Nonsense. Its prices should be products of the free market, which they are not. No way a free market would support anything like the prices charged by hospitals in the US.
And you base that on what?
Oh please. You only need to understand the basic principles of free markets. Making price shopping impossible, and arranging things such that payments are made by third parties who then socialize their expenses, is a formula for massive overpricing. This is fundamental stuff. And you don't need to work in the field to know that two Tylenol don't cost the hospital a hundred dollars, or anything close to it.
Everyone wants the best healthcare possible, they just think it should be free.
Nonsense. Its prices should be products of the free market, which they are not. No way a free market would support anything like the prices charged by hospitals in the US.
And you base that on what?
Oh please. You only need to understand the basic principles of free markets. Making price shopping impossible, and arranging things such that payments are made by third parties who then socialize their expenses, is a formula for massive overpricing. This is fundamental stuff. And you don't need to work in the field to know that two Tylenol don't cost the hospital a hundred dollars, or anything close to it.
Well, if I was you I'd just stick to the herbal remedies. They were just fine for our ancestors.
Well, if I was you I'd just stick to the herbal remedies. They were just fine for our ancestors.
I sense some false unstated premises in your response, and I notice that you didn't actually respond to what I said in my post above.
I'd love to know your qualifications for knowing one single thing about health care. I have over 20 years experience in it. Post yours up. Would certainly like to know.
Nobody needs healthcare experience to know they're getting it up the tail. All one needs to see is the lifestyle of those in the healthcare industry and its easy to understand. Everybody in the industry make a very good living off a flippin ransom from unfortunate situations. It is complete horseshit. Its like getting abill for 600 bucks from some azzhole declaring your father dead when you saw with your own eyes he was dead when they hauled him out with a sheet over his head. That happened to my best friend. Broken system because of greed. PERIOD!
Really? My hospital works on generally on less than a 1% profit margin. While I'm certainly well fed, I have life in my hands every day and probably make less than an average NFL player.
While our health care system needed some intensive therapy, if nothing changes the ACA, you ain't seen nothing yet.
You, sir, paint with too broad and a sloppy brush.
Hospitals have been used as an instrument of redistribution of wealth. Hate the government for this.
Having said that, I have run my own healthcare facility for decades. The whole works. I have run it for a fraction of the national average. Dental care, for the most part during my life has been far closer to a free market than hospital care and the cost, in real dollars reflects that fact.
When I go into hospitals, I see monumental waste and I know what I am looking at. IMO the reason is not so different than government, the accountability has been obfuscated by second and third party payers. Which docs know what something costs? None. Which patients ask? Few. Why, because insurance or the govt or someone else pays for it. Then there are the tort drivers that drive up the costs because of CYA medicine and insurance. There are many reasons.
If you doubt that the market place can positively impact health care look at the cost of complex surgical cosmetic procedures. They are competitive to say the least. Why? Insurance does not cover them.
Govt out, tort reforms, and real market based reforms (patients need an incentive to ask, how much?) are the answers. IMO.
I'd love to know your qualifications for knowing one single thing about health care. I have over 20 years experience in it. Post yours up. Would certainly like to know.
Nobody needs healthcare experience to know they're getting it up the tail. All one needs to see is the lifestyle of those in the healthcare industry and its easy to understand. Everybody in the industry make a very good living off a flippin ransom from unfortunate situations. It is complete horseshit. Its like getting abill for 600 bucks from some azzhole declaring your father dead when you saw with your own eyes he was dead when they hauled him out with a sheet over his head. That happened to my best friend. Broken system because of greed. PERIOD!
Who are these rich people you speak of? Really? Go down to your local hospital and find one. All the hospitals I've worked for barely met budget. As a pharmacist, I make less working for a hospital than I would a retail store.
People bitch and complain about freeloaders in our society, but when it comes to healthcare they want to be one themselves.
Don't want $hit for free just want to pay what its worth, not have a hospitalization ruin me financially. As for these people that are rich I know them personally, my wifes boss owns a drug store. He is flippin loaded, I have a best friend who works for a orthopaedic surgeon, you guessed it flippin loaded. I also have another close friend who's wife is a nurse, they live a pretty cushy life too. I don't feel to awfully bad for these folks.
I understand that medicare pays less for some meds than they cost cause my wifes boss bitches about it but it doesn't seem to affect his lifestyle, seems he makes it up somewhere else.
Well, if I was you I'd just stick to the herbal remedies. They were just fine for our ancestors.
I sense some false unstated premises in your response, and I notice that you didn't actually respond to what I said in my post above.
It's hard to respond to those who know nothing about what they speak of.
Everyone wants free market healthcare. Wait till they see the pricetag the free market puts on saving your life.
I am one of the guilty parties. I have set pricing, negotiated managed care contracts and dealt with supplies within the hospital setting for 20 years. Without getting into a large amount of detail, charges are a product of managed care and mean nothing. Insurers want high charges so they can create more "value" through added perceived savings. The increased charges are also creating a need for insurance. Providers have fallen into the game.
Unfortunately, healthcare has become a unique market where consumers don't pay for their consumption. Most of insurance is paid by employers. Most of the cost of service is paid by insurance and the hospital pays for the products ordered and used by the physicians. Despite what many believe, most physicians are independent of the hospital and hospitals cannot compensate physicians for referrals or utilization patterns.
Healthcare needs to change, but the solution is not with insurance, buy accountability.
Hospitals have been used as an instrument of redistribution of wealth. Hate the government for this.
Having said that, I have run my own healthcare facility for decades. The whole works. I have run it for a fraction of the national average. Dental care, for the most part during my life has been far closer to a free market than hospital care and the cost, in real dollars reflects that fact.
When I go into hospitals, I see monumental waste and I know what I am looking at. IMO the reason is not so different than government, the accountability has been obfuscated by second and third party payers. Which docs know what something costs? None. Which patients ask? Few. Why, because insurance or the govt or someone else pays for it. Then there are the tort drivers that drive up the costs because of CYA medicine and insurance. There are many reasons.
If you doubt that the market place can positively impact health care look at the cost of complex surgical cosmetic procedures. They are competitive to say the least. Why? Insurance does not cover them.
Govt out, tort reforms, and real market based reforms (patients need an incentive to ask, how much?) are the answers. IMO.
Hear hear.
The system is broken in multiple ways. Government interference and low reimbursement rates drive hopitals to attempt to make the difference from non-government patients. Lack of competition makes hospitals bloated and inefficient. The third party payment system discourages patients from shopping around and factoring costs into treatment decisions (especially in the case of elderly medicare patients). Finally, technology and innovation have driven the demand for the newest and greatest diagnostic and treatment tools but at very high cost. Health care in this country reminds me of the the F-22 airplane -- a technological marvel unmatched anywhere else but so expensive and complex we can't afford to fly them.
Everyone wants free market healthcare. Wait till they see the pricetag the free market puts on saving your life.
I'm sorry, but what you're implying (i.e., that free markets result in higher prices than centrally planned markets) has been proven false countless times. Introduce competition and prices must drop to whatever level causes the most efficient distribution of resources.
ah, such theory. This is HEALTH care, which is going to affect how you feel or even if you live. It isn't an inconvenience to wait in most cases, it is suffering and even death.
People will pay the price, whatever it is. There isn't going to be any competitive market, in most cases there is only one source or a limited subset that doesn't fill the need. Just ask people waiting to get a heart or kidney dialysis or any of a hundred life threatening conditions.
Unless you think people with 10 years of training are going to start doing surgery. You are welcome to go to them, because if you do, it can only improve the gene pool.
ah, such theory. This is HEALTH care, which is going to affect how you feel or even if you live. It isn't an inconvenience to wait in most cases, it is suffering and even death.
People will pay the price, whatever it is. There isn't going to be any competitive market, in most cases there is only one source or a limited subset that doesn't fill the need. Just ask people waiting to get a heart or kidney dialysis or any of a hundred life threatening conditions.
Unless you think people with 10 years of training are going to start doing surgery. You are welcome to go to them, because if you do, it can only improve the gene pool.
Wow! An honest to goodness communist.
Everyone wants free market healthcare. Wait till they see the pricetag the free market puts on saving your life.
I'm sorry, but what you're implying (i.e., that free markets result in higher prices than centrally planned markets) has been proven false countless times. Introduce competition and prices must drop to whatever level causes the most efficient distribution of resources.
When hit with the hard fact in their face of this will save your life but it cost XXXXX people will always pay whatever it takes.
Couldn't pay me enough to save some people.
I had an ex-girlfriend who did payroll for many hospitals, doctors, and clinics. The doctors monthly bonus (Not wage.)at clinics was greater than the average yearly salary of individuals in the county. I also have plenty of friends who work in the hospitals who make $80,000.00 plus, far from store clerk wages.
But if I'm full of it then you should become a retail clerk.
$60 for a warmed blanket over her while she waited for attention. And she didn't even get to keep the blanket, which probably cost $12.....
One of my renters had a problem with their premature twins, delivered by Caesarian. The first week's bill was over 1 million.. which of course they never had to pay. But someone did.
The hospital is probably going to accept the $20,000 as payment, claim the balance of $69,000 as noncollectable, all the while making probably close to $15,000, and knowing the guy got bit by a rat snake.
+1. My experience, +35 years in healthcare. So the guy ends up having to pay $5400. The hospital writes the noncollectable as a loss. The hospital still made a some. If a hospital makes too much profit it loses its nonprofit status so they use all kinds of ways to fudge the actual figures. I think it was Ronald Reagan in the eighties who passed a law forcing hospitals to treat anyone who came into an emergency room, but he did not account for anyway of paying for it, so a lot of unreimbursed healthcare is related to emergency rooms which is passed on to other patients with insurance.
The hospital is probably going to accept the $20,000 as payment, claim the balance of $69,000 as noncollectable, all the while making probably close to $15,000, and knowing the guy got bit by a rat snake.
And you and any other patient with money is going to pay the balance.
No. You forget how many illegals and Dimocraps walk and never pay a dime after being in critical care 2 days to two months.
a lot of unreimbursed healthcare is related to emergency rooms which is passed on to other patients with insurance.
According to the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, 55% of U.S. emergency care now goes uncompensated.
The amount of uncompensated care delivered by nonfederal community hospitals grew from $6.1 billion in 1983 to $40.7 billion in 2004
When medical bills go unpaid, health care providers must either shift the costs onto those who can pay or go uncompensated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act
So, thinking of alternatives . . . what did our forefathers do back in the 19th Century when they were bit by Copperheads or Rattlers?
They died.
I'd love to know your qualifications for knowing one single thing about health care. I have over 20 years experience in it. Post yours up. Would certainly like to know.
Nobody needs healthcare experience to know they're getting it up the tail. All one needs to see is the lifestyle of those in the healthcare industry and its easy to understand. Everybody in the industry make a very good living off a flippin ransom from unfortunate situations. It is complete horseshit. Its like getting abill for 600 bucks from some azzhole declaring your father dead when you saw with your own eyes he was dead when they hauled him out with a sheet over his head. That happened to my best friend. Broken system because of greed. PERIOD!
Who are these rich people you speak of? Really? Go down to your local hospital and find one. All the hospitals I've worked for barely met budget. As a pharmacist, I make less working for a hospital than I would a retail store.
People bitch and complain about freeloaders in our society, but when it comes to healthcare they want to be one themselves.
Yea, the don't bitch about paying a lawyer with 3 years of professional schooling $800/ hour, but to pay a dr a hundred bucks for 20 min for something that should be free?
The hospital is probably going to accept the $20,000 as payment, claim the balance of $69,000 as noncollectable, all the while making probably close to $15,000, and knowing the guy got bit by a rat snake.
+1. My experience, +35 years in healthcare. So the guy ends up having to pay $5400. The hospital writes the noncollectable as a loss. The hospital still made a some. If a hospital makes too much profit it loses its nonprofit status so they use all kinds of ways to fudge the actual figures. I think it was Ronald Reagan in the eighties who passed a law forcing hospitals to treat anyone who came into an emergency room, but he did not account for anyway of paying for it, so a lot of unreimbursed healthcare is related to emergency rooms which is passed on to other patients with insurance.
BINGO!!! We have a winner.
Yes the hospital may only make 1% profit but it's because they cook the books. They charge $89000 for a procedure that likely costs $10000. The insurance settles for $20000. In actuality they have made $10000 but they count it as a $69000 loss. It's fairly easy to stay at 1% profit in that game and still pay million dollar salaries to all the doctors and administration. Also please don't give me all that BS about everyone it takes in the chain. Every drug store in the country manages to stock a large pharmacy and serve many times the amount of customers, many 24-7, without charging $100 for an aspirin.
Yep, like most any other business the books are fudged. I have never worked in a hospital that the CEO was not a MBA. Of course some Doctors work in concert with the MBAs to lend credibility. Healthcare industry is worth more than my mind can imagine and there are all sort of crooks up and down the chain, from the lowest to the highest. But that being said, I think we have good healthcare in this country. I have taken care of people from around the world that have come here and have paid full price for procedures, because we are the best in the world.
Yep, like most any other business the books are fudged. I have never worked in a hospital that the CEO was not a MBA. Of course some Doctors work in concert with the MBAs to lend credibility. Healthcare industry is worth more than my mind can imagine and there are all sort of crooks up and down the chain, from the lowest to the highest. But that being said, I think we have good healthcare in this country. I have taken care of people from around the world that have come here and have paid full price for procedures, because we are the best in the world.
No doubt about the quality. The only thing they did wrong was to make so much money that our government decided they needed in the game.
because we are the best in the world.
That's true, but the tradition of excellence developed under a relatively free market system. As that disappears, so eventually will the excellence.
PS When I was a kid there was no such thing as an HMO. Most people had catastrophic medical insurance, and everything short of something like a heart attack, cancer, or a car accident, was paid out of pocket, so everyone wanted to know what everything cost, the providers knew and informed them, and most people looked for the better deals, thus keeping a constant pressure on the medical profession at every level to keep costs low and business models efficient. As a result, medical costs were fairly cheap, as was insurance.
The system is broken in multiple ways. Government interference and low reimbursement rates drive hopitals to attempt to make the difference from non-government patients. Lack of competition makes hospitals bloated and inefficient. The third party payment system discourages patients from shopping around and factoring costs into treatment decisions (especially in the case of elderly medicare patients). Finally, technology and innovation have driven the demand for the newest and greatest diagnostic and treatment tools but at very high cost. Health care in this country reminds me of the the F-22 airplane -- a technological marvel unmatched anywhere else but so expensive and complex we can't afford to fly them.
We began as an economy based on agriculture. We moved to an industrial economy. We then became a service economy. Our economy is now based on health care.
Yep, like most any other business the books are fudged. I have never worked in a hospital that the CEO was not a MBA. Of course some Doctors work in concert with the MBAs to lend credibility. Healthcare industry is worth more than my mind can imagine and there are all sort of crooks up and down the chain, from the lowest to the highest. But that being said, I think we have good healthcare in this country. I have taken care of people from around the world that have come here and have paid full price for procedures, because we are the best in the world.
No doubt about the quality. The only thing they did wrong was to make so much money that our government decided they needed in the game.
There is a lot of truth here. Plus like the others said, thieves up and down the whole food chain. When the biggest thieves, the politicians, see lower-level ones making big money, they naturally want a taste.
because we are the best in the world.
That's true, but the tradition of excellence developed under a relatively free market system. As that disappears, so eventually will the excellence.
PS When I was a kid there was no such thing as an HMO. Most people had catastrophic medical insurance, and everything short of something like a heart attack, cancer, or a car accident, was paid out of pocket, so everyone wanted to know what everything cost, the providers knew and informed them, and most people looked for the better deals, thus keeping a constant pressure on the medical profession at every level to keep costs low and business models efficient. As a result, medical costs were fairly cheap, as was insurance.
Exactly. When I first got insurance, I could understand it easily. No way now. There were no co-pays, just an affordable deductible. Folks who didn't have health insurance were looked on as trash. Nowadays, lots of good people can't afford it but the trash have the best.
I agree. It sure has changed a lot. Especially since Medicare. My Grandfather died because He refused heart surgery in the 50's, probably couldn't afford it, but he made sure his son, a polio survivor received first class care. Reagan didn't help either with his emergency room law.
The politicians want a taste no matter how small. I have a B.S. in Nursing, decades of experience, my best year was in 2010, I made a commitment to try and make $100,000 dollars and failed. Even though I worked the whole year, 12 hour days, 6 days a week, I came up short. With +32 hours of overtime each week, I still came up short. The money goes towards the top and they use it to advance their own agenda.
The politicians want a taste no matter how small. I have a B.S. in Nursing, decades of experience, my best year was in 2010, I made a commitment to try and make $100,000 dollars and failed. Even though I worked the whole year, 12 hour days, 6 days a week, I came up short. With +32 hours of overtime each week, I still came up short. The money goes towards the top and they use it to advance their own agenda.
+1
What does Chuck Norris pay if he gets snake bit?
What does Chuck Norris pay if he gets snake bit?
I dunno but I saw him bite the head offen a rat that some gooks put on him by puttin' it in a bag they put over his head.
When snakes bite Chuck Norris, they die.
plus $3k for installation.
You'd think if a person can smoke pot for pain, without a doctor; the same person could administer chemo to themselves. Just google it.
Chemo drugs are nasty stuff. You want someone who knows what they're doing right there all the time. You can pass out, go into shock, or anything else. It's nothing to mess with on your own.
The sad reality of our healthcare system is that it does NOT operate under a free market principles, hospitals don't list the prices they will charge.
I could not agree more.
Winner! Winner! Therein lies the entire [bleep} problem with health care.
The sad reality of our healthcare system is that it does NOT operate under a free market principles, hospitals don't list the prices they will charge.
I could not agree more.
Winner! Winner! Therein lies the entire [bleep} problem with health care.
Herein lies the problem. How could a hospital have any idea what your course of treatment will cost until it's completed?
The politicians want a taste no matter how small. I have a B.S. in Nursing, decades of experience, my best year was in 2010, I made a commitment to try and make $100,000 dollars and failed. Even though I worked the whole year, 12 hour days, 6 days a week, I came up short. With +32 hours of overtime each week, I still came up short. The money goes towards the top and they use it to advance their own agenda.
Yeah, I'm calling BS on this. As an RN, your base salary should have been over $50K/yr. If you really worked 32hrs overtime per week you would have been well over $100K. Now, this still proves nothing. Who is at the top that somehow is getting the money you wanted?
The sad reality of our healthcare system is that it does NOT operate under free market principles, hospitals do NOT list the prices they will charge.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/mone...lth-costs-wide-differences-locally_n.htmWASHINGTON � Patients pay as much as 683% more for the same medical procedures, such as MRIs or CT scans, in the same town, depending on which doctor they choose, according to a study by a national health care group.
But if a patient does not know how much a procedure costs, he or she gets stuck with the remainder of the bill if it goes above that average price.
"It helps the small business," McClure said, "but the consumer's left out in the cold."
Providers, he said, often don't know real costs, either. When asked by patients for the cost of a procedure, providers often say they need to check with the insurer. The patient only learns the real cost when the bill arrives, McClure said. Legal reasons often prevent providers from discussing cost differences.
"The sad reality of our healthcare system is that it does NOT operate under free market principles, hospitals do NOT list the prices they will charge."
Add to this that often people can just not shop for better costs (as you can for a car or TV). If you are taken to the ER in need of immediate attention, you can't comparison shop for a better deal at another hospital; you need help now.
I just had a total knee replacement and my (highly recommended) surgeon practiced at one hospital; if I wanted him to do the job, I went where he practiced. Besides, I really don't believe another hospital would offer competitive costs. Hospitals are not in a price sensitive field of service.
http://news.yahoo.com/snake-bite-89000-162515519.htmlA snakebite victim who was treated at a North Carolina hospital came away with more than just fang marks when he received an $89,227 bill for an 18-hour stay.
Eric Ferguson, 54, from Mooresville, N.C., was taking out the trash at his home last August when he was bitten on the foot by a snake. He drove himself to Lake Norman Regional Medical Center, where he was treated with anti-venom medicine.
According to his bill, the hospital charged $81,000 for a four-vial dose of the medication.
Shocked at the price tag, Ferguson told the Charlotte Observer he and his wife found the same vials online for retail prices as low as $750.
Ferguson, who is insured, said his care was "beyond phenomenal."
"It was just the sticker shock," he said.
Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay.
The hospital defended its prices, saying it has to charge prices higher than retail because of the various discounts it is required to give insurers.
"We are required to give Medicare one level of discount from list price, Medicaid another, and private insurers negotiate for still others," officials told the newspaper. "If we did not start with the list prices we have, we would not end up with enough revenue to remain in operation."
The hospital added: "Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients."
The Fergusons' case is, of course, not unique. A 2013 cover story by Steven Brill in Time magazine ("Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us") detailed the "outrageous pricing and egregious profits" destroying the U.S. health care system, noting that Americans were expected to spend an estimated $2.8 trillion on health care last year.
Wow! I have a story to tell just like this. I busted my butt last fall off a combination of scaffold and an extension ladder (fell about 23 feet) . I also drove myself the the Lake Norman Regional Medical Center where I had about a four hour stay. One of those four hours was trying to get the heck out of there. My bill was over $28,000.00. Ironic huh? The folks at Lake Norman did a great job but I did not receive $28,000.00 worth of treatment. I guess we are paying for the Mexicans and white trash that get treatment without paying.
http://news.yahoo.com/snake-bite-89000-162515519.htmlA snakebite victim who was treated at a North Carolina hospital came away with more than just fang marks when he received an $89,227 bill for an 18-hour stay.
Eric Ferguson, 54, from Mooresville, N.C., was taking out the trash at his home last August when he was bitten on the foot by a snake. He drove himself to Lake Norman Regional Medical Center, where he was treated with anti-venom medicine.
According to his bill, the hospital charged $81,000 for a four-vial dose of the medication.
Shocked at the price tag, Ferguson told the Charlotte Observer he and his wife found the same vials online for retail prices as low as $750.
Ferguson, who is insured, said his care was "beyond phenomenal."
"It was just the sticker shock," he said.
Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay.
The hospital defended its prices, saying it has to charge prices higher than retail because of the various discounts it is required to give insurers.
"We are required to give Medicare one level of discount from list price, Medicaid another, and private insurers negotiate for still others," officials told the newspaper. "If we did not start with the list prices we have, we would not end up with enough revenue to remain in operation."
The hospital added: "Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients."
The Fergusons' case is, of course, not unique. A 2013 cover story by Steven Brill in Time magazine ("Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us") detailed the "outrageous pricing and egregious profits" destroying the U.S. health care system, noting that Americans were expected to spend an estimated $2.8 trillion on health care last year.
Wow! I have a story to tell just like this. I busted my butt last fall off a combination of scaffold and an extension ladder (fell about 23 feet) . I also drove myself the the Lake Norman Regional Medical Center where I had about a four hour stay. One of those four hours was trying to get the heck out of there. My bill was over $28,000.00. Ironic huh? The folks at Lake Norman did a great job but I did not receive $28,000.00 worth of treatment. I guess we are paying for the Mexicans and white trash that get treatment without paying.
It's all good. Just ask Kodiack or djs. lol
Stick to herbal medicine. You'll be much happier.
The biggest problem with what healthcare charges is most people don't have a clue what they are being charged for. They have no idea how many people are behind the scenes that they never see.
Want to talk cost of drugs. Fine. Our inpatient pharmacy operates 24/7. To cover every shift, every day requires a lot of pharmacists and technicians. To have the drugs on the shelves when you need them requires several people who only work supply. Unfortunately, all those people need management and their support. Oh yeah, those drugs have to be in stock in sufficient amounts. It's not a small amount in inventory that is there just in case that never gets used, but it has to be there just the same. How much mark up has to be made just to break even? It's not a little.
Now, that pharmacy has bills whether we have patients or not. Equipment, cleaning staff, utilities. It's not free. Same goes for every department in the hospital. You may see one nurse, but there are many people behind her that are required for her to give you treatment. The hospital overall has to have admin and HR plus all the costs of providing them a place to work. All those people have to be there whether we see one patient or 100.
Doctors? They certainly don't come for free and you may encounter several along the way.
If your hospital bill had a breakdown of everything you were paying for you would never finish reading it. You see three people while you're in but don't see the other 50 that are there making sure you can be taken care of. You certainly don't see all the millions of dollars worth of equipment that is there just so you can be taken care of.
Then factor in all the people we have to take care of that we know we won't cover expenses. How many businesses are required to sell products below cost or just give them away?
Of course, some of you just want to bitch and don't really want to know what's going on, so bitch away.
Sorry but to put it succinctly, horseshit.
And I'll bet every mechanic, electrician, and plumber has screwed you too. Funny how the people that know the least, scream the loudest.
The hospital is probably going to accept the $20,000 as payment, claim the balance of $69,000 as noncollectable, all the while making probably close to $15,000, and knowing the guy got bit by a rat snake.
They don't give anti-venom unless you need it.
Just amazing pictures of a snake bite victim.
So, thinking of alternatives . . . what did our forefathers do back in the 19th Century when they were bit by Copperheads or Rattlers?
They died.
The biggest problem with what healthcare charges is most people don't have a clue what they are being charged for. They have no idea how many people are behind the scenes that they never see.
Want to talk cost of drugs. Fine. Our inpatient pharmacy operates 24/7. To cover every shift, every day requires a lot of pharmacists and technicians. To have the drugs on the shelves when you need them requires several people who only work supply. Unfortunately, all those people need management and their support. Oh yeah, those drugs have to be in stock in sufficient amounts. It's not a small amount in inventory that is there just in case that never gets used, but it has to be there just the same. How much mark up has to be made just to break even? It's not a little.
Now, that pharmacy has bills whether we have patients or not. Equipment, cleaning staff, utilities. It's not free. Same goes for every department in the hospital. You may see one nurse, but there are many people behind her that are required for her to give you treatment. The hospital overall has to have admin and HR plus all the costs of providing them a place to work. All those people have to be there whether we see one patient or 100.
Doctors? They certainly don't come for free and you may encounter several along the way.
If your hospital bill had a breakdown of everything you were paying for you would never finish reading it. You see three people while you're in but don't see the other 50 that are there making sure you can be taken care of. You certainly don't see all the millions of dollars worth of equipment that is there just so you can be taken care of.
Then factor in all the people we have to take care of that we know we won't cover expenses. How many businesses are required to sell products below cost or just give them away?
Of course, some of you just want to bitch and don't really want to know what's going on, so bitch away.
Sorry but to put it succinctly, horseshit.
And I'll bet every mechanic, electrician, and plumber has screwed you too. Funny how the people that know the least, scream the loudest.
I'd like to invite you to kiss my ass.
What does Chuck Norris pay if he gets snake bit?
Nothing, but the snake dies.
The sad reality of our healthcare system is that it does NOT operate under a free market principles, hospitals don't list the prices they will charge.
I could not agree more.
Winner! Winner! Therein lies the entire [bleep} problem with health care.
Herein lies the problem. How could a hospital have any idea what your course of treatment will cost until it's completed?
By listing their prices and rates
for each particular service.
Hospitals are not in a price sensitive field of service.
The reason it's not price sensitive is the third party payer system. No one is motivated to demand lower prices for particular services if costs are spread out to everyone evenly regardless of their magnitude.
A better system was the insurance model, i.e., you have a heart attack, your policy pays out TO YOU a specified predetermined amount, e.g., $250,000.00. If you minimize your expenses, you pocket the remainder. You don't, and your expenses exceed your compensation.
on the cost of the antivenin, the hospital also has to take into consideration all the antivenin it has purchased in the past that they had to toss out cause of passed its expiration date.....plus $750 sounds WAY low for CroFab, thats prolly for stuff near its expiration date....it should be closer to $2,000 for new production....
I work in an ER and this is spot on. It's not just the cost of buying one shipment of the Crofab but also the fact that the stuff expires pretty rapidly and the hospital has to constantly replace it. So you aren't just paying for what it costs to obtain that one bottle of Crofab but what it costs the hospital to maintain a supply of it at all times.
Sucks but there it is. And I can promise you this, the level of anger over the price would pale in comparison to the level of anger if you had to tell a parent who had just brought in a bitten child. "Sorry we are all out of what we need to treat this but we will order some and hope your child can hang on till it gets here". "You know we used to keep this stuff on hand 24/7 but people bitched too much about the cost". Want to have that conversation with an ER doctor? I doubt it.
Oh, and I also call BS on finding Crofab for 750 bucks. It is typically 2000 a vial.
alright since your in the ER Todd in a part of the country where snake bite is fairly common have you been in the ER long enough to have seen the difference between the old Wyeth serum and the new CroFab? do you think the comparably dirt cheap Wyeth is a good idea when there is CroFab available?
Interesting reading guys, thanks.
The politicians want a taste no matter how small. I have a B.S. in Nursing, decades of experience, my best year was in 2010, I made a commitment to try and make $100,000 dollars and failed. Even though I worked the whole year, 12 hour days, 6 days a week, I came up short. With +32 hours of overtime each week, I still came up short. The money goes towards the top and they use it to advance their own agenda.
Yeah, I'm calling BS on this. As an RN, your base salary should have been over $50K/yr. If you really worked 32hrs
overtime per week you would have been well over $100K. Now, this still proves nothing. Who is at the top that somehow is getting the money you wanted?
Wages in the Tidewater Area of Virginia are approximately 87% of the National Average due to all the military and military retirees. Wages are not as high here as in most other areas. My friend makes more as a LPN in PA., than I do here as an RN here in Virginia. I imagine in Alaska it is even more. I was making $22/hour which got me a base salary of $45760/year. 32 hours of overtime was worth $51744/year, I took 3 weeks vacation which of course I did not get any overtime. Which got me almost $98,000 for the year. If I wasn't working in a specialty area I would have made less. Obviously the upper management is using the money for increasing their sphere of influence through donations to other charities and hospitals, they sit on each other boards, etc, not unlike any other business or government.
KYFRED, atom chaser, I wish your profiles gave me more information. But purely on the face value of your posts, I agree.
My BIL was bitten on the hand by a rattlesnake last year & for 6 vials of anti-venom, spent 2 days in the hospital & his bill was over $40K.
That was in Butte.
MM